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Official Kirby Matchup Thread, now discussing: LUCAS!!!

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Lord Viper

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The dtilt thing was a joke...I'm sure all the Sonic mains get it.

I have a feeling that Kirby's Fair is a good move to use in this matchup.
Oh, I see, (not really). =P

I do a fair amount of Mirror combo's, (U-Tilt from behind > B-Air from behind > U-Air from behind), with Kirby to see how that will do on Sonic, so far they didn't expect it since I'm one of a few Kirby mains that uses it. But it seems that most of the Sonic mains I Brawled today didn't have many experience with Kirby so that's part of my plain failed today since I still find Sonic not difficult to handle but annoying to fight. D=
 

Nihongo-ookami

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Hmmm....

Sonic:

PROS:
-Tilts come out quickly, and do decent damage.
-MUCH faster than Kirby
-Copy Ability is near-useless.
-Decent mindgames

CONS:
-Low KO Power.
-Smashes and Specials leave much to be desired.
-Easy to gimp
-3-4 good KO moves.

Honestly, I'd go with a 55-45 Kirby's favor. What do the Sonic boards say?
 

Lord Viper

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Hmmm....

Sonic:

PROS:
-Tilts come out quickly, and do decent damage.
-MUCH faster than Kirby
-Copy Ability is near-useless.
-Decent mindgames

CONS:
-Low KO Power.
-Smashes and Specials leave much to be desired.
-Easy to gimp
-3-4 good KO moves.

Honestly, I'd go with a 55-45 Kirby's favor. What do the Sonic boards say?
This I agree, also the match up number I'll agree as well. I think the Sonic boards have the same number you just posted though they restarted on their match up thread like many other character boards so it's unknown for now.
 

A1lion835

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The dtilt thing was a joke...I'm sure all the Sonic mains get it.
*ponders*

And we (I) started on the sonic matchup because that was the popular vote. I was kind of hoping for some help from the sonic boards. My ideal matchup discussion would be like this:

Side A: We can use W tactic to stop X strategy.
Side B: Well, you might do that, but we can do Y to stop that in its tracks.
Side A: ORLY? Well, if you do that, we can punish you with Z.

Basically, each side has some misconceptions about the matchup, we correct each other, maybe brawl to test some things out, and we're all happy and stuff.

Instead, we have this:

Side A: We can do X to stop you.
Side B: lol n00b.

So far we've had 4 people without a kirby icon next to their name respond: straked, who mains Dr.Mario and TheSleepyOne who mains Ness, both on the kirby side of the discussion, and djbrowny and Chis, dj has made 1 1/2 intelligent post and Chis has criticized our intelligence. I just want a good matchup discussion, can we get that?! : /
 

Lord Viper

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Don't expect any match up thread to be easy, there are some characters that will agree to what eachother have to say, but some characters like Ike, Ganondorf, Yoshi, etc will always be a trouble to handle because of so many different options. Also you have to go over the reviews of the facts, and made up stories of what both sides are saying.
 

Triple R

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Since a bunch of Kirby's attacks go through sonic's spin attacks I don't think any good sonics are just going to go to the edge of a stage start winding up and give you time to react. Sonic's playstyle is a get in, do some damage, get out if its hairy style. Playing a sonic can be a very hectic and confusing matter. They can cancel attacks, their fast, and a few of his attacks look the same. A good part of the match is just keeping up with the sonic. I don't think it's really a discussion of our attacks beat out his attacks. What makes the battle hard is actually trying to land hits since he's quick.
 

T-nuts

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MAESTROS MATCHUP ADVICE:

grab, jab, hit with the other half of the nair
hit him with ur hand? you may be on to something here...this could be the perfect compliment to hit him with ur foot
 

Browny

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Hmmm....

Sonic:

PROS:
-Tilts come out quickly, and do decent damage.
-MUCH faster than Kirby
-Copy Ability is near-useless.
-Decent mindgames

CONS:
-Low KO Power.
-Smashes and Specials leave much to be desired.
-Easy to gimp
-3-4 good KO moves.

Honestly, I'd go with a 55-45 Kirby's favor. What do the Sonic boards say?
eh?

Sonics tilts arent that good lol, their speed is average. the only good thing about it is the range on ftilt and damage of utilt. maybe only slightly better than kirbys overall, but still not that much of a threat.

his smashes may, but his specials certainly do not have much to be desired. the sheer mix-ups possible by varying down or side b is more than most characters have in their entire moveset, the damage if they hit properly can be 28+ and using side, down, up and neutral b to recover makes it just about impossible to ever gimp a sonic. spring is still amazing for escaping combos, you can never really pressure sonic into a bad position thanks to spring, which is a major part in his high survivabitlity. His specials have a very different purpose to other characters. Consider someone like MK, all his specials are offensive in nature. Ike has a lot of defensive specials. Sonics are for manuevreability and mix-ups on approach to bait reactions and punish with any other attack.


Stop assuming I don't have any experience against Sonics. Maybe not YOUR sonic, or someone else's sonic in the USA, but I know what attacks beat what attacks, the strategies all differ with each players. Decide for yourself if every main of a character plays the same, or each one has a different priority set per attack.

Jabs/ftilts/utilts/grabs/fsmash/bair/possibly fair/upB/downB/sideB all have equal or higher priority compared to Sonic's sideB/downB. Try it yourself, and you come back and tell me if I'm wrong or not, rather than continue assuming I do not have Sonic experience... Because I do.
Please stop killing your credibility with every post.

NO, i repeat NO good sonic will use side b or down b to approach on the ground often, if at all. You can have sonic experience, but if your opinion is based on how easy it is to beat sonics approaching with side/down b, well then its fair to assume you do not have experience vs GOOD sonic mains. note the difference between Sonic main and Sonic player. Much the same difference as a IC player and an IC main
 

Asdioh

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I do a fair amount of Mirror combo's, (U-Tilt from behind > B-Air from behind > U-Air from behind), with Kirby to see how that will do on Sonic, so far they didn't expect it since I'm one of a few Kirby mains that uses it.
Ummmm...what? o_o

Mirror combos?

Whose behind?

o_o

T-NUTS MATCHUP ADVICE:

hit him with ur foot
You're so good at Brawl. I'm jealous :[



By the way, Sonic isn't very easy to gimp. That's what I was going to say, and djbrowny's last post helped confirm that.



Also just for future reference, please don't use acronyms to talk about Sonic's attacks. They confuse the hell out of me. I still can barely tell the difference between his Down B and Side B, and I don't know their names. One of them is Spinshot, I think. Or maybe that's his Neutral B. >______>

I played Sonic a bunch of times at a friend's house on Thursday, because I'm terrible with Sonic and wanted to understand him a bit better. I'm still terrible with Sonic. My favorite thing to do was run up to him and drop springs on his head. That's a pretty awful strategy though. Not only is it easy to block/beat, but doesn't the spring only do like 4 damage? >_>
 

T-nuts

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You're so good at Brawl. I'm jealous :[
haha i cant tell if youre serious XD but from my comment i doubt it

i honestly have little sonic experience except on wifi =( i would share if i knew better. all i know is side b (or was it down b???) is srs bsns on wifi.
 

:mad:

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I think he mainly plays those Sonics that just "side b/down b" + jump + Uair. The ones that spring + dair and say "but dats a good combo."
 

Kewkky

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Actually, you know what? Forget it. I'm done helping MU discussions for SWF. **** stupid ****ing elitist trolls think they're always right, and bandwagoners who agree with them aren't far off.




Sonic vs Kirby, 100:0 (CF's favor). Take it as a joke or not, I don't care.
 

momochuu

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Why you chose to deal with Sonic mains for your first matchup discussion in your first matchup thread is beyond me. I'd give my opinion on the matchup but...yeah.
 

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We should've just started with Meta Knight and went down. :/

Feelings get hurt when discussing Sonic.
 

Lord Viper

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Actually, you know what? Forget it. I'm done helping MU discussions for SWF. **** stupid ****ing elitist trolls think they're always right, and bandwagoners who agree with them aren't far off.
You haven't been on match up threads for very long haven't you? Debating is part of the match up thread and the creater of this thread is the judge to see who's right and who's making up facts. You shouldn't lose your cool too easily.

Also, in the past, we didn't get a single break from the Sonic mains when they stormed on this thread.
 

momochuu

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Which is why discussing matchups with them is probably one of the most irritating experiences on SWF.
 

Kewkky

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You haven't been on match up threads for very long haven't you? Debating is part of the match up thread and the creater of this thread is the judge to see who's right and who's making up facts. You shouldn't lose your cool too easily.

Also, in the past, we didn't get a single break from the Sonic mains when they stormed on this thread.
Nope, I haven't been to many MU discussions (ZSS and Kirby only). And I will just believe my own numbers, not the general consensus. Let them talk all they want, when they face a tough guy with a character they thought they had an advantage against, numbers and theory won't save them.

The only way they'll change my view on any matchup is if they go up to me and prove that they are right, not just nitpick and make up words and sentences. All that does is make me step off and refuse to aid the community. If the metagame is at a standstill, or better yet, if no one has experience in an MU that I play good players against on a daily basis, then it'll stay in a standstill... Much easier than dealing with stress-inducing idiocies. I'll just read whatever you guys say and go back to lurking like I did before 2009.
 

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He only went off on you because he hates hearing wrong information given on Sonic. It seems like it, though.


Just shake it off and give your opinion.
 

Browny

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Actually, you know what? Forget it. I'm done helping MU discussions for SWF. **** stupid ****ing elitist trolls think they're always right.
Nope, I haven't been to many MU discussions (ZSS and Kirby only). And I will just believe my own numbers, not the general consensus. Let them talk all they want...

The only way they'll change my view on any matchup is if they go up to me and prove that they are right, not just nitpick and make up words and sentences. All that does is make me step off and refuse to aid the community.
wait, whos the elitist here again? rofl

I'm merely preventing the spread of misinformation.

I may not be able to prove my point to you in an in-game sense, but i can definitely prove I am right with facts about moveset attributes etc, as oppose to you who comes in claiming you have experience vs good Sonic mains, who seem to only know how to use spindash as an approach and get owned as a result. If anyone wants to discuss things like the various approach options Sonic has and what Kirby can do to stop them, now theres something than can be 100% accurately explained in sentences and words. No elitism there, but if you want to continue ignoring it, at least spare the other Kirby mains from having to read through your whinge posts while we discuss what really happens in matches.

You are not in some all-powerful position where its our job to prove to you what we say is the truth (After overcoming your assumptions in the first place). I dont care if you ignore what we say, the only one who loses in that situation is you.
 

Allied

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I'm just going to say because i was Paradigm (another tournament today) and i also faced Kai another really experienced sonic main so i'm gonna say

IF YOUR NOT EXPERIENCED AGAINST FIGHTING A GOOD SONIC

You will prolly lose
Its a really uphill battle for kirby and sure you guys may say "LOLUZ NAW SAWNIC IS LIK MAD EASY SON" but i'm saying i'm really in question of how easy this matchup is

I don't think its in favor of kirby at all in fact i'm definitally gonna stick on my 55 - 45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gid0FZYxwZ0 1 i get 2 stocked
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpiO9H3AmYk 2 barely win
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_KaEdRJm4A 3 comeback of the year

These are me vs camalange a really well experienced and good sonic in PA

Look at these matches carefully(all of them)

Notice how i have NO CONTROL OF THE STAGE
sure i may keep some sort of spacing but sonic at most times has the general advantage especially with very good mindgames with the spindash and other assorted things sonic does

Also an experienced sonic is good at hit and run techniques and as well as pressuring your shield for good pokes and EASY damage rack up

Your looking if you dont shield correctly to get yourself in a 0-40% combo that ALSO may lead into more combos

Also hes SDC(spin dash cancel) leads into great approaches into grabs, more attacks, insane mindgames

Leaving kirby basically defenseless because a good sonic can pressure you so well until your shield is low and then poke and leave then also the way sonic is played in this matchup
if hes smart he will leave his Bair or Fsmash freshhhhh

which means if he mindgames you right (Which is not hard to do at all because your almost defenseless to this onslaught) you will get killed earlier at around 80 - 90%

Also the way this matchup is played you WILL use bair alot theres no way around it dont be ashamed
its a solid move but that means it will go stale QUICKLY

so the other kill moves kirby has (which is just like the smashes and hammar XD) are hard to hit

Now i'm not saying this is an impossible matchup for kirby
but before you guys go on and say "WELL ITS JUZ SONIC HOW BAD CAN IT BE"
you should really go out and play a amazing sonics like i have i've faced pretty much all of them on the east coast and i'll tell you the matchup just keeps getting swayed in my mind towards sonics advantage

Thank you for acually reading if you did<3
 

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Very good matches, Allied. I was talking to Cam earlier about Sonic's position, it seems a few of them think he's a little TOO high. But eh, I don't really know.

Oh, and that last match was way too close.

I'm one of those people that loves fighting Sonic with Kirby. For when Mario and Ness just don't cut it.
 

Kinzer

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Which is why discussing matchups with them is probably one of the most irritating experiences on SWF.
...Are we wrong to try and correct misinformation?

Pretty much the only reason I haven't even tried to say anything is because apparently people don't want to listen to us when it comes to Sonic... but hey oh well, it's fine.

I'm sure you hate it when people say things like "all Kirby is is Bair" or anything else like this that gets on your nerves.
 

:mad:

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I'd say Sonic players' frustration is warranted. Kirby isn't anywhere near as underrated, people usually give their character the immediate advantage because their jab/dtilt stops all of Sonic's approach options. Sonic players hear this time and time again, they know it isn't true.

We're already past the first year marker, and people still just make bad assumptions. It's not exactly flaming or elitist criticism when someone comes in and points out every flawed statement one of us might have. Just give them a chance, they did come here to help determine a true ratio.
 

Allied

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Whoa there, how many Kirby mains ever had trouble with Sonic? Not many but only three out of ten Kirby mains that I know. I'll admit that Sonic is annoying to, but not too hard.



Unless you play online, Sonic can space with speed with Kirby unable to do anything about it, but Kirby can approach from the air when Sonic's on the ground, (of course you can spam B-Air like a ***** to mess up Sonic's ground game).



That I'll agree, if you just try to block most of Sonic's fake Spin Dash then you'll get grabbed. Just the more to not keep blocking all the time and just attack him when he's spinning.



Only a typical Kirby main will have to relay on that move forever and that's why our meta game isn't evolving well. Not even a thought of Up-B and it can stop all of Sonic's Spin Dash unless he jumps out of it. There's more attacks that's useful to name. But all and all, no one really knows the Sonic vs Kirby match up very well, not even I since most of the Sonic mains I Brawled were a breeze when I use Kirby and Wario but is hard when I use Olimar or Pokemon Trainer.



Kind of reminds me of the Ike match up thread when it come's to Kirby. =/



Same, there just isn't enough godly good Sonic mains around MI, there's some in the Mid-West but there isn't enough Sonic mains here... kind of like the lack of Kirby mains in the Mid-West but three or four. And I guess it really don't matter what I think on match up's since there isn't enough Sonic mains to keep me from thinking the opposite.



As long as people don't think the same as the last match up. Also I haven't thought of using D-Tilt to stop most of Sonic's approaches, though Spin Dash approaches end up switching to Homing Attack some of the time before D-Tilt can reach you.

I guess the next match up will based on the tier list I guess.

Edited: Also stage talk about Sonic is in this thread.


Whoa there, how many Kirby mains ever had trouble with Sonic? Not many but only three out of ten Kirby mains that I know. I'll admit that Sonic is annoying to, but not too hard

No offense but how many notable sonics have you faced that actually place high if so please give me some names i should of at least heard of them

and what are these kirby mains facing? do they play actually good sonics? seriously just because you and the other kirby players face bad sonics doesnt mean the matchup is in kirbys favor you gotta explore it.


Unless you play online, Sonic can space with speed with Kirby unable to do anything about it, but Kirby can approach from the air when Sonic's on the ground, (of course you can spam B-Air like a ***** to mess up Sonic's ground game)


How am i gonna approach from the air?

let me list the ways

Missed Uair
Spam Fair
Laggy Hammer

Bair is obviously the best choice? >.>

i'll tell you what sonic does while hes on the ground

Spindash
Dodge
Roll
Shield

i'm just gonna say right now if you think sonic is all about ground game you dont face any good sonics at all

only thing he does on the ground is really throw out a Ftilt, he has tricky grab game because of his insane speed and spindash which gets him in the air for the most part lol
and lets not forget forward smash

and i dont play online i go to tournaments at least every weekend >.>

That I'll agree, if you just try to block most of Sonic's fake Spin Dash then you'll get grabbed. Just the more to not keep blocking all the time and just attack him when he's spinning.

To be honest what are you prosing i should do
Dodge it? well sonic can hold his spindash in place FOREVER
so sitting there hoping to time sidestep is a little impractical dont you think

Shielding is just a good option because when he does come the spindash hits for about 3 times on the shield (just about i think)

also you cannot tell me how tricky sonic gets with his fake spin dash if you can manage to outsmart him there to not get grabbed at least once

your better than chudat


Only a typical Kirby main will have to relay on that move forever and that's why our meta game isn't evolving well. Not even a thought of Up-B and it can stop all of Sonic's Spin Dash unless he jumps out of it. There's more attacks that's useful to name. But all and all, no one really knows the Sonic vs Kirby match up very well, not even I since most of the Sonic mains I Brawled were a breeze when I use Kirby and Wario but is hard when I use Olimar or Pokemon Trainer

So now i'm basically the typical average kirby main that shows the 1 reason our metagame is lacking is because my solution to 1 problem is try to you bair but it goes stale

all i can say is L.O.L

Ok so please use an U-B vs a sonic i'll explain to you what happens against a good sonic player

He can spindash jump over it because if you didnt know you can acually be in spindash and still jump over it then attack

he can shield approach it because it has HORRIBLE lag time at the end
and mis use of it leads to early K.Os on sonics part

The only reason i didnt mention this is because It doesn't work >.>

i mean i acually try alot by trying to get example videos vs different players on different matchups that are wierd for kirby
and i attend alot of tournament and i try to place high
for example today i got 4th in teams with snakeee who plays zero suit samus

don't blame kirbys troubles on me >.>


Same, there just isn't enough godly good Sonic mains around MI, there's some in the Mid-West but there isn't enough Sonic mains here... kind of like the lack of Kirby mains in the Mid-West but three or four. And I guess it really don't matter what I think on match up's since there isn't enough Sonic mains to keep me from thinking the opposite.


It may not matter to you but it may matter to some other kirby mains else where

I'm east coast theres tons of the big sonic super stars that everyone hears about that i have to face all the time
=/
 

Allied

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Very good matches, Allied. I was talking to Cam earlier about Sonic's position, it seems a few of them think he's a little TOO high. But eh, I don't really know.

Oh, and that last match was way too close.

I'm one of those people that loves fighting Sonic with Kirby. For when Mario and Ness just don't cut it.
Yeah thank you

and cam is a extremely good sonic but everyone thinks he a little too high

malcom just switched to wario
because he doesnt believe sonic shud be that high

whatever tho no big deal

and yeah i can honestly say that if we faced again it would be in favor of camalange beating me

btw i just wanna add just because a character is lower than us on the tier list doesnt mean they have a bad matchup with kirby

Zelda is low tier now and is a solid counter for kirby
hows that feel fellow kirbys?
 

OFY

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Listen to Allied guys, he's one of the best. Even ask Juice they know wuts up.
 

:mad:

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How many wows?

Looks like some of us are calling it 55:45 Sonic, arguable for 50:50. Sounds about right to me.
 

Allied

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oh so many wows

XD

idk lets see i'm prolly gonna get a bulk of hate posts "no allied you dont know sawnic is lik totality bad your dumb allied"

XD

i'm just trying to help personally i dont want this to be another tier list matchup thread

(well if your against metaknight your going to lose cause hes top tier and if your against captain falcon its a 100 - 0 matchup cuz hes low on the tier list)

lol + there aren't that many kirby mains so no one really knows but i dont wanna be bashed on for the information i do put in >.<
 

OFY

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55-45 Kirby's favor

I will be a 100% sure of this is true tomorrow.

But IMO 55-45 kirby
 

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There's not enough wows. My mom has more wows than that, and that's saying something.

And rofl @ you're totally dumb Allied. Nah, you're fine. You do work, have actual matchup experience.

Nobody cares about your opinion Ophelia Hiney because you're a Sonic main and Sonic is a bad character because all he does is shotspin rbroepfebnjy.
 

OFY

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There's not enough wows. My mom has more wows than that, and that's saying something.

And rofl @ you're totally dumb Allied. Nah, you're fine. You do work, have actual matchup experience.

Nobody cares about your opinion Ophelia Hiney because you're a Sonic main and Sonic is a bad character because all he does is shotspin rbroepfebnjy.
^^

I'm 12 and what is this?
 

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I wasn't being serious. o:

50:50, it seems.
 

Asdioh

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Trust me, Zelda is not a solid counter to Kirby. In fact, I think it's in Kirby's advantage.

Also, the fact that Malcolm switched because of the tier list makes me lol. Did he forget that tires don exits?

*tries to watch Allied's video but his computer sucks too much*
 

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Since a bunch of Kirby's attacks go through sonic's spin attacks I don't think any good sonics are just going to go to the edge of a stage start winding up and give you time to react. Sonic's playstyle is a get in, do some damage, get out if its hairy style. Playing a sonic can be a very hectic and confusing matter. They can cancel attacks, their fast, and a few of his attacks look the same. A good part of the match is just keeping up with the sonic. I don't think it's really a discussion of our attacks beat out his attacks. What makes the battle hard is actually trying to land hits since he's quick.
THIS! QFT

This is what I think we should be focusing on. Which of our attacks beat what is somewhat irrelevant if we can't hit him (not to mention Sonic is GENERALLY, not always, outprioritized by our moves. However, that doesn't matter since he won't be getting hit by them, and even if he does, we won't be able to combo much since he can spring out of it.).

That being said, I'm pretty sure a charged downB clashes with a lot of our ground options, so you know, just spamming a tilt isn't going to stop him either...


Also, I agree with everything Allied has said in this entire thread. He knows what he's talking about. If you've never faced a GOOD Sonic main, you probably can't understand just how frustrating and difficult it is.
Blaming him or people like him for our metagame being stale is just plain wrong (Not to mention, if you actually watch his videos, you'll see that he relies on a lot more than just Bair. Actually, his Bair 'spam' probably goes a little over my average Bair usage, and I don't feel I only slightly overuse it.).

The reason our metagame is stale is because everytime something is mentioned, we ignore it until we see Chu do it. It's kind of sad really. I'm starting to wonder if there's even a point to posting my findings anymore...




Also, I wouldn't call Zelda a Kirby counter. The matchup may be in her favor (the only one I've faced was at LM, and I don't think Zelda on LM should determine the matchup... stupid broken mansion...), but I doubt it's a real counter. She leaves herself way too open on most of her attacks.
 
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