PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

§leepy God · Oct 28, 2009

♪ You mean someone that's going to use Ness only or use a substitute when you see some A or S tier characters? †

thesage · Oct 28, 2009

I'm going to Pound 4 but I don't play brawl anymore.

Yubi · Oct 28, 2009

W/e. Even if you try to own in friendlies. The idea is to represent and do an excellent performance.

P.S. For everyone here, I'm gonna post a link to a thread in Puerto Rico's Smash forums. It's about our best melee player posting about how important it is to show your best and 100% potential when using a low tier character even if it doesn't includes winning at tournaments. I recommend that everyone who uses a low tier (specially Ness) reads it.

http://smashpr.com/forums/showthread.php?p=39087#post39087

Thanks

Yink · Oct 28, 2009

milesg2g said:
I agree
The fact that it's this way is cool I just wish it was more balanced.
lol when I first got brawl it was nothing but me trying to L cancel and combo my opponents thinking that the 5 top tiers from melee still stood somewhere on the Tier list.But man was I wrong.
Also Since Brawls so much of a big community people tend to bite off of other peoples styles almost making me quit the game. But Ness had new costumes so i stuck through it

It's just because Sakurai didn't play the games. He was all "Lets just put Ness in there again...oh he sucked in Melee make him a little less sucky...oh and give him a speech impediment and some stupid grab releases and infinite grabs against other characters k...hmm that doesn't seem like enough. OH LETS MAKE HIM EASILY GIMPABLE RIGHT?

ALSO LETS PUT IN TRIPPING GAIS!".

...*sigh* I'm just going to go play BBrawl now.

Ref · Oct 28, 2009

No no no

YOU ALL HAVE IT WRONG..

Sakurai said let's add tripping so that ness won't get gimped. But if ness trips i don't care.

he forgot they could jump because the y and x buttons were taken out on the wii mote.

milesg2g · Nov 4, 2009

Ref said:
No no no

YOU ALL HAVE IT WRONG..

Sakurai said let's add tripping so that ness won't get gimped. But if ness trips i don't care.

he forgot they could jump because the y and x buttons were taken out on the wii mote.

Yeah I too beleive that the game was nerfed abit for the wii mote players

NessBrawler · Nov 4, 2009

the wii-mote control is another attempt to make the game more family freindly I really didn't like this approach :demon:

...but i do like online playc and ness so... :lick:

fragbait · Nov 10, 2009

Are we even discussing the matchup at all?

Oh, btw, Hi, I' Fragbait from Wichita Crew, I recently picked up Ness, nice to meet all of you!

Yink · Nov 10, 2009

fragbait said:
Are we even discussing the matchup at all?

Oh, btw, Hi, I' Fragbait from Wichita Crew, I recently picked up Ness, nice to meet all of you!

Oh fun, did you go to NK2 then?

I don't think we're discussing him anymore, it should probably get changed soon.

Delta-cod · Nov 10, 2009

If we're changing it, I demand a Yoshi rediscussion. That ratio is just so wrong as it is at the moment. :laugh:

It's also probably the only MU I can give decent contributions to.

Bartolon · Dec 4, 2009

I can take over this topic I guess. I know alot about Matchups and I finally have the time to explain some things to people.
I have enough time (finally) to manage it.

And some suggestions about what needs to be changed and all would be nice!
And here are some questions for you guys ^^

How many week(s) when we discuss another char?
Do we start over again? Thus starting by MK again?
Shall we vote at the end of the MU discussion what the best arguments,tips and all were? So we can have the most important stuff quoted in the matchup.

My english isn't that great tbh, But I'll try to do the best I can.

AdmantNESS · Dec 4, 2009

I feel important stuff should be listed in points and voting sounds good IMO.

Also, I'll can give link to the discussions like I have been doing before: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6393604&postcount=1466

And it looks like Nintenjoe's new Ness matchup compendium isn't going anywhere since he is inactive: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244140
Some nice Mk discussion there though.

Bartolon · Dec 4, 2009

Listed in points? Can you explain the concept of it?

I guess I can quote the important stuff from that topic into this one (If I'll be accepted as the editor from this topic) . And make a summary of the information.

I shall do that tommorow =)

Thank you, It's appreciated.

AdmantNESS · Dec 4, 2009

Like this post here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8075404&postcount=22

He listed the pros and cons and talked about parts of the matchup like on/off stage and ledges. It doesn't have to be structured like that but mainly, I mean points that talk about the important aspects of the match up. Sorry if that wasnt much an explanation.

Bartolon · Dec 4, 2009

Ah ok I get it now =O
Yes, That will definitely be in it!

Delta-cod · Dec 4, 2009

Yoshi rediscussion.

AdmantNESS · Dec 4, 2009

Here is the Yoshi discussion Delta cod: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=6383232#post6383232

As for my last post I linked to NintenJoe's thread twice. Here is my list of links to discussions: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6393604&postcount=1466

Delta-cod · Dec 4, 2009

To be honest I disagree with a lot of what was said there. They assumed Yoshi would be approaching and taking the air when all he has to do is stay grounded and camp you. There was also no mention of usmash/Uair On Grab Release. D:

Bartolon · Dec 5, 2009

Lol delta-cod =P

Do you guys know who I have to PM to ask to change it??

Man of Popsicle · Dec 5, 2009

Levitas.
He's our forum mod.

Valiant · Dec 10, 2009

Earthbound360 said:
Lucas cannot infinite Ness. All you need to do is DI back as you are released and time a spotdodge.

I would say Lucas is about 6-4 to Ness, Ness having the upper hand.

Try to stay in the air. Your aerials should outprioritize his tilts which surpass yours (minus dtilt). I wouldnt say his smashes are more useful though, just remember to be careful with spotdodge and rolling. Usmash is the situational 70% killing machine that could screw you up if you roll wrong, and neves spotdodge a dsmash.

Lucas' PKF can be absorbed of course, but you have to be a bit careful. Try to PSIM lag cancel whenver possible.

I would make some changes to the matchup list above also.
Wolf goes into heavy disadvantage.
MK also.
Squirtle to neutral.
Sheik to slight disadvantage
Snake also.
G&W to average disadvantage.
Charizard to heavy disadvantage.
Sonic, Lucario, and Icys to slight advantage.

I have some questions too. Why is ZSS a disadvanatge, and why are Wario and ROB so low?

Hey EB 360, i never found a video on how to PSI lag cancel, so if you can send me a link on how to do it or anything i would appreciate thanks

xoxokev · Dec 10, 2009

Valiant said:
Hey EB 360, i never found a video on how to PSI lag cancel, so if you can send me a link on how to do it or anything i would appreciate thanks

to do a psi magnet lag cancel, all you have to do is press down, right, left, OR jump right after you absorb something. pressing down will make you spot dodge, left or right will make you roll, and jump will make you jump

it's easy

EDIT: you can also shield, usmash, or pkt out of it

and here's a vid, but it's not very good quality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8uw5-b7e0s

Yink · Dec 15, 2009

I'd love a new match-up discussion.

How about we talk about Diddy Kong? I'd think it's fair to say this is a disadvantage.

I play with a really good Diddy Kong, and sometimes it's frustrating.

Earthbound360 · Dec 15, 2009

Xoxokev go everything u need 2 no. Except, I wasnt aware you could shield out of magnet. As far as I know, upon absorption, the PSIM acts just like a shield, so how can you shield out of it?

And I agree wif Yink. A good Diddy is a pain in the ath.

Chuee · Dec 15, 2009

Wolf goes into heavy disadvantage.
MK also.
Squirtle to neutral.
Sheik to slight disadvantage
Snake also.
G&W to average disadvantage.
Charizard to heavy disadvantage.
Sonic, Lucario, and Icys to slight advantage.

Wolf isn't disadvantage.
Mk is 60-40
Squirtle.................is nowhere near even with ness. It's a big advantage
Sheik isn't slight, neither is snake.
Zard is 60-40

Earthbound360 · Dec 15, 2009

Dude I posted that a LONG time ago.

I dun rlly feel like arguing how I feel now tho :\

Yink · Dec 15, 2009

Soooo...I sent a PM to Levitas asking to either change the MU or just let someone or himself make a new thread, seeing as this one is quite...dead. -_-

Does anyone want to start talking about Diddy Kong?

orange/xd · Dec 15, 2009

yeah we should make a new one...i might make it i guess

Delta-cod · Dec 15, 2009

If I may make a suggestion for any new MU discussion:

Try making a different thread for each character and one main thread that has links to them all. This way, people can discuss one character for however long they'd like, and people may choose characters they are knowledgeable about to talk about. I recommend releasing about 3 characters per week so the boards aren't massed by like, 36 topics at once.

Kinda like this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221496

Yink · Dec 15, 2009

Delta-cod said:
If I may make a suggestion for any new MU discussion:

Try making a different thread for each character and one main thread that has links to them all. This way, people can discuss one character for however long they'd like, and people may choose characters they are knowledgeable about to talk about. I recommend releasing about 3 characters per week so the boards aren't massed by like, 36 topics at once.

Kinda like this: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221496

That doesn't seem like a bad idea Delta! I'd make one, but the only thing stopping me is if I did we'd have two matchup threads. I'd rather wait until Levitas replies to me.

Delta-cod · Dec 15, 2009

Dohoho. Credit goes to Shiri, I'm just spreading the idea around. :laugh:

§leepy God · Dec 16, 2009

♪ Separate threads for each character match up is a good idea, as long as the main thread post the summary, and the other thread based on the character has all the info that needs to be known. Some boards have two or three people helping the match up thread that way. †

Levitas · Dec 16, 2009

control swap in progress

Delta-cod · Dec 16, 2009

I'd help you manage. I don't have a life, so I'm here all the time. :laugh:

Levitas · Dec 16, 2009

CG and good luck w/ the sticky, yink

Yink · Dec 16, 2009

Levitas said:
CG and good luck w/ the sticky, yink

Yep yep. Alright, workout time.

Joker490Frozen · Dec 16, 2009

Yink said:
Does anyone want to start talking about Diddy Kong?

I think Ness x Diddy is 40/60
But depending on the play style of the Diddy player it could be different maybe 50/50.

So if Diddy uses a lot of bananas and/or relies on them your best choice will be too just get rid of the bananas instead of keeping them in play. Also using bananas against him will be bad choice since just about every move Diddy does can pick them up plus they expect you to use them, so when you grab one and run away they get confuse.
The other thing is you can try to keep bananas in play so when Diddy tries to pull one out he won't be able to cause you can only have two projectiles out at the same time. A way to do this is put the bananas in a place where it may be hard for Diddy to grab or can be punish for it.
Smashville you can land the bananas on the moving platform, in FD put them on one of the sides pretty much see how Diddy moves around and drop bananas where he may have a hard time reaching.

Delta-cod · Dec 16, 2009

Please note that the majority of my MU posts will be theorycrafting that comes from experience playing the characters, just thinking about what they'd do vs. Ness.

So, Diddy vs. Ness.

Two strategies here: Use the bananas against him or remover them from play.

If you're using the bananas against him, he's likely to pick them up since Diddy's moveset is PERFECT for banana control. I'm not sure how good Ness's banana control is, but I can't imagine it's very good. Ness's ground game is a bit lacking to work with them.

So the better strategy is to keep them out of play. There are a couple ways to do this. You can throw them off the cliff so he has to pick out new ones. You can also throw them into parts of the map you plan on defending or throw them up into the air. If the bananas run out so he can draw a new one, stay at midrange so you can punish it. Knock him away and keep the bananas out of his hands.

As far as dealing with the bananas goes, I guess staying in the air is beneficial. Ness has a good airgame, so that's not a problem. Just watch out for Diddy's banana tricks.

Edit: If we're doing the separate threads, tell me and give me 3 characters to discuss so the threads may be made.

Yink · Dec 17, 2009

OKAY GUYS. Front page is up. It took FOREVER. ;_; ...

I'll split this into two threads tomorrow

As for right now...

We're currently going to discuss Diddy Kong! I'm going with the MU being 60/40, Diddy's favor.

EDIT: Okay Delta.

Game and Watch

Squirtle

Wolf

Also, Bartolon, would you like to help us?

You seem like you'd do a good job.

Bartolon · Dec 17, 2009

55-45 in Diddy's favour

Will edit later..

PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

Smash Master

Smash Hero

Smash Cadet

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Champion

Smash Champion

Smash Cadet

Smash Master

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Ace

Smash Lord

Smash Hero

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Smash Lord

Smash Rookie

Smash Lord

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Ace

Smash Hero

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Hero

Smash Master

the moon

Smash Hero

the moon

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

The Robo-PSIentist

Smash Lord

Information

Network