PKAY FIAH! ~ Ness MU Discussion [INDEX PAGE + Various Discussions]

[PK-ow!]

If you have only wifi and nobody else, can't go out to tournaments, then you're better off using wifi. CPU's never helped anybody get better.

Apparently M2K plays them. ._.

But he's a, err, 'statistical outlier', so I guess I'm just spamming.


The real reason this matchup sucks is because Ness has a vanishingly poor ground game against Marth... and that's supposed to be the other guy's weak point. You go in the air, Marth loves fighting things in the air. He only dislikes fighting downward - and... Ness can't really do much there without platforms.

What cinches this for me is that the Marth can not know the matchup and still do well. Not completely green, but just stay clear of PKT2s and respect the offstage ability Ness has, and he'll do better than alright.

If he is doing dumb autopilot things though, aerials everywhere, get in there. And try to stay close to him for as long as you can, dealing damage. Choose weaker attacks over stronger ones, even.

 

[Uffe]

I don't care what M2K does. And I don't mean to sound like an jerk to you, but he's already been defeated by a few others that don't even use Meta Knight.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

He's boring to watch.

 

[milesg2g]

He's boring to watch.

Most High Tiers are boring to watch =/

And to be honest I Think ness' fair ***** just about everything in the game IMO have you seen those hitbox images? Its funny how something isn't considered the truth when people are too lazy to figure it out and then wait for someone else to prove it. Wifi or Not brawl is based on spacing and timing the biggest thing you get out of wifi johns is input lag. IMO thats just me. I have no problems with marths except Mr.R Now if every other marth i faced sucks then so be it lol. Because 10/10 I'm better offline then online =/

 

[Eagleye893]

... No offense to everyone else, but I think fair is extremely overrated. Sure it's good for spacing and can rack up some damage, but if someone is good at di'ing, it doesn't matter. You would first have to get a little closer to ensure that you get more hits off, because if you just hit with the outer edges of it, it's useless. Knockback is zero on all hits leading up to the knockback hit, but if the opponent knows how to sdi, they can either avoid the knockback hit and follow up, or not care and keep their distance for when you try to fair them... In my mind it seems to make more sense, but the only real exception is heavier characters. Fair is a great attack, but it's not something to rely on because it isn't anywhere near unbeatable. Nair on the other hand is good. It's quick, if you don't mindlessly run into someones shield you have a possibility of getting off the sourspot, which could lead to a combo with something. It also has good knockback, but it's not as good as some others.

Higher tier characters are really boring... The only exception may be Kirby.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I agree with the fair thing.
Unless it's vs ness, marth, or ike.
When I'm close enough to attack I go for the nair or sour spot dair.
Lot's of bair and PKT as well.

 

[Uffe]

I think we've had this discussion before. Fair is a good attack. I don't really see anybody trying to DI out of that because you're the one in control when using it. It's not like Pikachu's down smash where it just sits in one spot giving off multiple hits, or Zelda's forward smash where she's in one spot as well. Those you can DI or SDI. That's what's different about Ness' forward aerial. You can move it, retreat it, possibly grab after it, etc. Ness' neutral aerial would be my second option. It has its uses and you can fling off your opponent with it like a boomerang. Forward aerial is overrated, yes, but that's because it's a good attack.

 

[milesg2g]

I think we've had this discussion before. Fair is a good attack. I don't really see anybody trying to DI out of that because you're the one in control when using it. It's not like Pikachu's down smash where it just sits in one spot giving off multiple hits, or Zelda's forward smash where she's in one spot as well. Those you can DI or SDI. That's what's different about Ness' forward aerial. You can move it, retreat it, possibly grab after it, etc. Ness' neutral aerial would be my second option. It has its uses and you can fling off your opponent with it like a boomerang. Forward aerial is overrated, yes, but that's because it's a good attack.

I don't even think Fair's overrated I think people just are now starting to see its potential its not overrated. Like you said theres multiple things you can do with the attack to combo up on someone. I have no complaints on the excitement of attack I've been using it since I played 64. or any Ariel that penetrates so deeply for that matter. The thing about Fair is you have absolute control as Uffe stated and thats why people are starting to be amazed with it if you ask me.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Fair has actually declined in usage since like last fall.

 

[Uffe]

What ever do you mean, MoP?

 

[Eagleye893]

nair is so much better... if you hit with the sourspot, at lower percents you can easily combo into other things. i like anything with lasting hitboxes, because i can normally keep away from their shield and get the sourspot or other stuffs in.....

fair is SOOOOOOO last fall..... lol

 

[Inferno3044]

Mario boards are discussing Ness now. Give your 2 cents to us.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227291&page=122

 

[Man of Popsicle]

What ever do you mean, MoP?

Well That's when I first started playing.
Every other move was fair in my ness dittos.
Now When I play ness dittos it's like: NairNairNairNairNair.
Just something I've observed from videos and such. People seem to not be using moar fair.

 

[Bartolon]

I would like to discuss another character xDDDD

 

[Uffe]

I'm kind of done with match up discussions. I just come across the same old BS and it's annoying having to repeat yourself more than once until someone actually gets it through their head.

 

[Eagleye893]

nintenjoe had something started up... but it quickly trailed into death.... should we just keep creating MU threads and hope someone doesn't fade out when it is made? unless someone can get nintenjoe back in here and tell him to make me a sandwi -- i mean keep track of the MU thread....

 

[smash64]

the trick of not losing to any character is to not get hit by moves

we can close this thread now

 

[Uffe]

Smash64 defeated Olimar ***! Good ****!

 

[Bartolon]

Olimar isn't that hard '_'

 

[milesg2g]

Olimar isn't that hard '_'

Yes he is >.>
But then again I take that back I used to have probelms with Oli's before I got a wii
Now i see that it just requires Spacing and pkf to beat him.
However I can see the difficulty anyone would have in Oli's

 

[Uffe]

Olimar is tough if you don't have any experience against him or if you have little experience. It's hard to tell the difference between his grab, f-smash and Pikmin Toss. Other than that, if you know how to deal with him, then no, he won't be tough.

 

[SuSa]

So FOW 2-0'd me in a $1 mm.

I couldn't punish anything of his..... -_-

 

[AvariceX]

So FOW 2-0'd me in a $1 mm.

I couldn't punish anything of his..... -_-

Don't let the thread title fool you; Snake discussion happened like 50 pages ago >_>.

I wish there were better videos of FOW available. The only ones up are either against players way below him or silly matches against people he plays against all the time (SK92).

 

[SuSa]

I don't care what the matchup is.

Just saying, god****..... Ness is so ****ing hard to grab... or punish... or hit as Snake.

My only punish:
Powershield pk fire, ftilt.

Yep..... -_-

 

[Uffe]

I don't care what the matchup is.

Just saying, god****..... Ness is so ****ing hard to grab... or punish... or hit as Snake.

My only punish:
Powershield pk fire, ftilt.

Yep..... -_-

Seriously? I always get my *** grabbed and/or punished by my brother's Snake or get f-tilted to the face and he doesn't even use Snake. FOW needs to tell me what I'm doing wrong or something. I asked him how to fight Meta Knight, but he never gave me a response to that, so I'm going to have to learn the hard way.

 

[_clinton]

I don't care what the matchup is.

Just saying, god****..... Ness is so ****ing hard to grab... or punish... or hit as anyone.

^_^

But yeah Ness is a speedy little scamp up close isn't he ^_^

I'll play with you if you want some match up exp ^_^

 

[milesg2g]

What do you guys do to get out of Charzards infinate CG?
It's the most annoying thing ever D:<

 

[Bartolon]

FOW isn't that great tbh...

 

[Uffe]

What do you guys do to get out of Charzards infinate CG?
It's the most annoying thing ever D:<

Return him to his PokeBall. You actually can't do a thing about it. And that's why this game is a joke. People just play grab ***, video game style and are attracted to male boys who wear striped shirts. Just call your opponent gay and hope for the best.

 

[smashkng]

Snake can ground release to up tilt or ftilt. So it means killing can be easier if he gets a grab. Though Snake's pummel is very quick it has extremely low hitstun. Down throw also puts in a very dangerous position which can deal lots of damage, especially if you're predictable with the rolls. So Ness should avoid grabs at all costs.

If Snake recovers low, spike him. At that position he is extremely easy to gimp.

 

[AvariceX]

Snake can ground release to up tilt or ftilt. So it means killing can be easier if he gets a grab. Though Snake's pummel is very quick it has extremely low hitstun. Down throw also puts in a very dangerous position which can deal lots of damage, especially if you're predictable with the rolls. So Ness should avoid grabs at all costs.

If Snake recovers low, spike him. At that position he is extremely easy to gimp.

Don't let the thread title fool you; Snake discussion happened like 50 pages ago >_>.

reiterating (is more than 10char)

 

[milesg2g]

reiterating (is more than 10char)

This guy's totally right. snake's recovery does put im at a bit of a disadvantage against the character that has the best spike in the game. if you take the risk of fast falling @ a snake when they try to recover slowly it's a big advantage for the ness for the simple fact that the dair hit box is bigger then most think as well as snakes tall body. The best way to put him in this predicament is to chase him w/ PKT after Fthrow. This'll work if you use the tail good enough. The tail can rack up a lot of damage as well as the head of the PKT

 

[§leepy God]

♪ I fought against a good amount of Snake mains with Ness my last tourney, of course naturally it was hard when I had Ness, but I was close everytime. It's almost too easy to toy with him with PK Thunder when he's coming back, however it's not easy to land Down Air against his Cypher because he can just release it and it could throw off our timing. My main beef with Snake when I choose Ness is the fact he can gimp us with his Side Special, which is annoying if your below the stage, he can also make use of his Basic Special if he wants to, but landing a hit with his grenades will take a random chance since Ness doesn't take too long to recover back to the stage. Also let's not forget Snake's hax Tilts, that he can use to punish us when we mess up an attack, so you have to play too careful when playing him. Oh let's not forget the ****ing C4's, who else but Snake can use this move to kill around 100ish percent and to recover if he's too low, (only on his last resort of recovering). His Snake Slide is no much of a threat, but a quick attack for messing us up, though there is a chance he get to use his Snake Slide, then Up Tilt us, then that rocket would drop on us which is also strange when fighting Snake. Stage picks, take him to Pirate Ship, Pokemon Stadium 2, or Delfino in my option because mostly because it's easy to use Spike strategies on those stages, on Pokemon Stadium 2 Ness can use every field for his advantage for Snake. Over all on this match up, it should be unchanged from what it is currently, I really hate fighting Snake... better yet, I just really hate Snake. D: †

 

[Uffe]

Hopefully my friend gets good with his Snake. He's only had the Wii for about two weeks or so and he nearly defeated me on Luigi's Mansion, which is his favorite stage and a good stage for Snake. I was at 202%, I was desperate and I managed to fool him with my PKT2 mindgames, knocking him far off the stage and I dair spiked him soon after. Other than that, I usually two stock him. So I'm hoping he gets really good soon and learns the basics with Snake. I could use the match up experience.

 

[§leepy God]

♪ Wow, I just got done with another thread about Snake being Luigi's Mansion and saying it's not a good idea, lol. Strange, Luigi's Mansion is one of Ness's best stages to be on because Ness can abuse the pillar with all his Smash Attacks, along with PK Flash, PK Fire, PK Thunder, Back Air and Forward Air. Not to mention it's not easy for Snake to kill on that stage. ^_^; †

 

[Uffe]

The only good I see coming out of it is locking someone. I couldn't do anything against my friend. It's a surprise I even won on that stage.

 

[milesg2g]

I've been doing a lot of air stalling w/ PSI Magnet
it Helps out alot when it comes to spiking and Air punishing period

 

[smash64]

still talking about Snake are we

 

[Uffe]

Kind of. It's not anything related to the match up, though.

 

[A1lion835]

The Kirby boards are discussing Ness! Any help with the discussion would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=236395