Is Sonic Mid-tier material? Is he better than Bowser again? (Read the OP)

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

Darknid said:
Well, thing about Sonic The Hedgehog as a game is, anything short of running really fast on a set track is done better by Mario platformers.

Really?
So the Mario platforms are capable of emulating the platformin that Sonic 1-CD did?
We are talking about extremely fast gameplay that punishes you with death if you miscalculate a jump.

PLatforming wise, Sonic offers much more speed while Sonic is slower and hasa bit more depth towards the platforming itself.

I want you to show me a speed run of Mario 2 and I will show you a speed run of Sonic 2.
I guarantee you will **** yourelf.

Darknid said:
That game would never exist without Mario creating that gameplay.

Di you know that it was Atari who created the first platforming games.
GG

Even then it doesnt matter who does it first only who does it better.

Darknid said:
Clearly inferior as a game to anything you see from the Mario series.

At the peak of their time bth Mario and Sonics games were both critically acclaimed and in terms of ratings, they were very even.
Sooo...

Darknid said:
If my parents bought me a sega system when I was a kid I'd be pretty pissed. This may explain why a lot of sonic mains are *****.

Thats...rather low to say.
*shakes head*
*reports for flaming*

Darknid said:
The only matchup I can think of that Sonic does better than Mario in as far as high tiers go is D3, for obvious reasons. Sonic is a bit of a ***** to grab in the first place and can't be infinite'd. If you take the Snake matchup, which is important..I just don't see how Sonic can do anything in that matchup. Traps everywhere, Snake has a reliable way to intercept spindash/interrupt sonic's dash(as easy as holding A), while Mario's is a 55-45 from what I remember..not bad.

Try holding A against my Sonic please.
Watch what happens. Its very entertaining.
hint: It does not end with Snake winning out.

Sonic easily avoids the traps, the issue for him though is that its risky. He still has nowhere near as hard a time as Mario does with DDD. (which is exaggerated but still pretty bad).

Darknid said:
Another thing that hasn't been addressed regarding Mario is his insanely underrated camping game. Who outcamps Mario? Maybe Oli, and who else? Hell, it's possible that Mario outcamps oli anyway. You can't slip a projectile through cape spam, the timing window required would only allow what..3% of projectiles to go through? You definitely wouldn't be hit more than Mario if you spammed lasers/arrows against his cape.

Wait what? mario is not a camping character. There are several characters like Olimar and Falco and Wolf that do it better.
They have reflectors too, better ones even.

Mario is not a great camper. he is a jack of all trades. he does a little bit of everything but is ot geared for any of it. I dont see mario trying to camp and when he does, its not very good compared to other campers.

A2ZOMG said:
Firstoff, Mario is simply a way better video game character by concept.

Plumber who saves a princess who continously gets kidnapped by the same badguy.
who shoots fireballs out his nose. Oh and is a mue like Link who only makes shouts, screams and goes WEEHEE.

Sonic=Hyper sonic moving hedgehog who can talk, go super saiyan, doesn't worry about saving the same **** princess in every game.
By concept sonic is much more interesting.

A2ZOMG said:
Sonic's 2d platformers have WHOAMYGOD CAMERA ISSUES! It's like you start running, WHOA THIS GUY IS FAST! *CRASH* Stupid walls.

Camera issues in the 2D games?
Unless you know how, there is never any point where you are in a blindspot ad cannot see.

Don't you mean 3D games?
Which is kinda hard to dealw ith considering how quickly and how the levels are built.
I do not see Sonic moving at such speed, through such levels.

A2ZOMG said:
Mario's 2d platformers on the other hand are so ****ing good that people make spinoffs of them. Specifically SMW and SMB3 and their related hacks > any of Sonic's platformers.

*googles up a ROM forum*

I am sorry apparently we are having to disagree on this issue.
I am counting... over 20+ ROM hacks for Sonics first three games alone.
You done lying?
Cause its just not cool when you make things up.

Let alone the ratings for those respective games during the sega vs nintendo console war were very, very close.
Practically the same (give or take .1 points)

A2ZOMG said:
Mario in general has a more solid grip on the low tier than Sonic does.

Start naming cause unless Mario is hard countering all of low tier, I cannot see as to what you are referring to.

A2ZOMG said:
Come to think of it...I can't really think of any matchups that Sonic clearly does better in than Mario, while Mario on the other hand, I can definitely say that he does better against characters like Wolf, Falco, Bowser, DK, Marth, Luigi, and Kirby.

I am sorry but how does Mario do clearly better against Marth than sonic when Mario get s outspaced to hell by both the Ape and the Gay man?

IIRC, the two characters have very similar matchups against those characters (though i believe Sonic has an easier time handling marths spacing issues than Mario does for my own reasons).

So unless we are talking about a deviation of more than 5 points matchup ratio wise, then how does mario do CLEARLY better?

bobson · May 1, 2009

What can you guys do against Dedede? The infinite really isn't the problem for us; mashing out is trivial until percents where we'd die anyway. The main problem is the fat ******* can shieldgrab ****ing ANYTHING we do, which seems like a weakness Sonic would share.

EDIT: Also I never thought I'd see the Mario VS Sonic debate again.

~TBS~ · May 1, 2009

bobson said:
What can you guys do against Dedede? The infinite really isn't the problem for us; mashing out is trivial until percents where we'd die anyway. The main problem is the fat ******* can shieldgrab ****ing ANYTHING we do, which seems like a weakness Sonic would share.

well for one Sonic vs D3, We dont get shieldgrabbed out of our fair. We can go to a fairing playstlye and he would not be able to grab us out of it. Can Mario fair the heck out of D3? No, too much ending lag. Grab, hello infinte. Any other move that we can do, yeah, except our Spindashes.

Kinzer · May 1, 2009

I heard Mario trashes Ness in a 100-0 MU thanks to Cape and F.L.U.D.D.

Lulz aside, while the MU between Sonic and D3 is 4-6 in respective, Sonic can outmaneuver and outspeed D3 in the air and the ground, punish any commited/baited attacks, harass very nicely offstage, and thanks to that Spinshot AT he can more or less find an aerial approach to allow him to not get shieldgrabbed from a Bair. With all the positives running for Sonic they don't leave a deep enough impact to change the fact that D3 unless gimped will live for an extremely long time due to his natural weight and Sonic's lack of kill move set-ups, and that one chaingrab across the field/Bair will seriously make things more troublesome.

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

bobson said:
What can you guys do against Dedede? The infinite really isn't the problem for us; mashing out is trivial until percents where we'd die anyway. The main problem is the fat ******* can shieldgrab ****ing ANYTHING we do, which seems like a weakness Sonic would share.

EDIT: Also I never thought I'd see the Mario VS Sonic debate again.

the mario vs sonic debate was for ****s and giggles. Besides, darknid and a2 are dumb concerning Sonic trivia so meh.

Matador would beitneresting to debate with o that issue.

Concerning the DDD matchup.
Shieldgrabbing really isnt an issue for Sonic.
Both his downB and Side B are safe on block due to jump canceling ability.
ASC is safe on block due to jump canceling.

We can also punish more often and weave away alot more.
So one of DDD's greatest assets just cannot be put into use as they could against mario.

RenegadeRaven · May 1, 2009

Lol, I like the Marios, they're cool people. =D

Saving the World > Saving some Princess
And Sonic rakes in the btches all the time. xD

Like I said before, Mario has a lot of potential and should be doing WAY better than he is now. I can see why he COULD be better than Sonic, but it's not showing. I'd say Mario if only by a little bit, Sonic should be right behind him if anything.

Snake match up isn't too bad, Sonic just has to stay close. Not too close, mind Ftilt and Utilt, but enough to where if snake even thinks of pulling out a grenade/C4/Mine, he's gonna get *****.
The Sonic has to literally wait for Snake to set up traps, and even then, Sonic's fast enough to get around them.

Tenki · May 1, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
Shadowlink just WoT'd a Sonic vs Mario debate.
wtf.

bobson said:
What can you guys do against Dedede? The infinite really isn't the problem for us; mashing out is trivial until percents where we'd die anyway. The main problem is the fat ******* can shieldgrab ****ing ANYTHING we do, which seems like a weakness Sonic would share.

For the most part, it can be like that.

However, aside from F-air, there's also side-B / ASC on Dedede's shield, as a bait, since Sonic can just cancel it with a jump or spring.

vato_break · May 1, 2009

sonic sux srry =/

Chis · May 1, 2009

Yeah, one liners like that are getting reported now.

vato_break · May 1, 2009

Well sonic has a better final smash than mario i think.Mario has a much better gimp game,aerial game,priority,matchups and he is just the better character.

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

vato_break said:
Well sonic has a better final smash than mario i think.Mario has a much better gimp game,aerial game,priority,matchups and he is just the better character.

Final smash are not used in competitive play. Credibility -1
Mario does not have better match-ups considering DDD, which is actually a very easy and accessible match-up to most.
He is arguably better, and that's why this thread is here.
He probably does have a better aerial game and priority, but I will argue that sonic has better recovery and grab game.

This gets us to a stalemate of 2 vs 2.

vato_break · May 1, 2009

aeghrur said:
Final smash are not used in competitive play. Credibility -1
Mario does not have better match-ups considering DDD, which is actually a very easy and accessible match-up to most.
He is arguably better, and that's why this thread is here.
He probably does have a better aerial game and priority, but I will argue that sonic has better recovery and grab game. This gets us to a stalemate of 2 vs 2.

i was just sayin you know since sonic doesn't have many pros compared to the many cons he has i just wanted to list the best thing sonic has...
overall mario does better against the whole brawl roster whereas sonic does not.
don't get me wrong sonic is good but, mario is just better

(ps i was a sonic fanboy geek in my younger years,sonic games are fun,mario games are better though! ^_^)

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

Tenki said:
YOU **** RIGHT SHADOWLINK84 WOT'D THIS *****!

**** skippy!

:mad: · May 1, 2009

Since few of us agree, let's settle this at the Olympics. :evil:

/badjoke.

Sonic's grab game is better? lolwut?

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

vato_break said:
i was just sayin you know since sonic doesn't have many pros compared to the many cons he has

So? He's low tier for a reason.
Prove to me Mario has a better Pro:Con ratio.

i just wanted to list the best thing sonic has...

wtf? No, no, a final smash is not a list, and it is not the best thing sonic has since it isn't even USED. >_>

overall mario does better against the whole brawl roster whereas sonic does not.

Prove it.

don't get me wrong sonic is good but, mario is just better

Prove it.

Straked, U-throw is one of the most damaging throws, can lead to deaths at 80-100%, and at low percents, can be a pseudo chain-grab.
D-throw leads to tech chasing, and puts sonic in a good position, especially if the opponent is near the stage/off stage.
Sonic's pummel of damage:speed is one of the best.
B-throw can also be used as a pseudo chain-grab if not DIed wrong, iirc. (Boxobthrow)
Sonic can also get off grabs more easily due to his speed and being able to punish smaller amounts of lag than most characters.

Mario_ 101 · May 1, 2009

sonic can't kill. his attacks are slow. he has low priority. his spinz r ezcakes 2 stop. all he can do is run fast nuff said :[P>

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

Mario_ 101 said:
sonic can't kill. his attacks are slow. he has low priority. his spinz r ezcakes 2 stop. all he can do is run fast nuff said :[P>

Wow, this is just stupid.
Sonic has problems killing, but his Fsmash, Dsmash, and Bair are decent at killing. Also, due to his momentum canceling, he gives his opponents problem to kill too.
He has DECENT priority, not low. His spins from across the stage have low priority, but...:
His usmash has good priority for air, along with invincible frames, and disjoints
His Side-B has invincible frames at the beginning.
His Fsmash is disjointed
His fair is a little disjointed too.
His Uair has AMAZING disjoints and has arguably more range than than Lucario's Dair
His Bair is disjointed as well.

Also, his spins are easy to stop, so we DON'T APPROACH WITH IT WHEN YOUR IN NEUTRAL POSITION. We use it to punish lag, and we use it as a tool for mindgames(not saying mindgames, but rather, it helps us achieve more mindgame potential). So, usually, you have no chance TO STOP his spindashes.

ROOOOY! · May 1, 2009

Sonic has the best up throw in the game IMO, in terms of damage + usefulness.
Second best pummel rate in the game.
It's genuinely pretty good ;o

I question how different match-ups are between them.

Mario_ 101 · May 1, 2009

aeghrur said:
Wow, this is just stupid.
Sonic has problems killing, but his Fsmash, Dsmash, and Bair are decent at killing. Also, due to his momentum canceling, he gives his opponents problem to kill too.
He has DECENT priority, not low. His spins from across the stage have low priority, but...:
His usmash has good priority for air, along with invincible frames, and disjoints
His Side-B has invincible frames at the beginning.
His Fsmash is disjointed
His fair is a little disjointed too.
His Uair has AMAZING disjoints and has arguably more range than than Lucario's Dair
His Bair is disjointed as well.

all his kill moves are situational or take too long lolololol. and compared to other character's priority sonic's for the mostpart is poor. his up smash is ez2c comin
who cares about invincibility frames in the beginning of his side b no sonic does that up close. his f smash is SLOW. his up air ie ez to c coming, and is situational. so is his b air.

:mad: · May 1, 2009

A better way of putting that is every move in the game is situational and not guaranteed.

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

Mario_ 101 said:
all his kill moves are situational or take too long lolololol.

They come out in 13 frames, Dsmash in 16, Fsmash in 17. While somewhat situational, they aren't as slow as you prefer to think. >_>

and compared to other character's priority sonic's for the mostpart is poor.

Wait, I'm sorry, I didn't know the character with the most disjointed U-air had bad priority compared to everyone else.

his up smash is ez2c comin
who cares about invincibility frames in the beginning of his side b no sonic does that up close. his f smash is SLOW. his up air ie ez to c coming, and is situational. so is his b air.

I thought we were arguing your ignorance over priority. So far, you haven't proven how his priority is as poor as you believe.

Straked, where's your calvin and hobbes avatar? Dx

ROOOOY! · May 1, 2009

Mario_ 101 said:
all his kill moves are situational or take too long lolololol. and compared to other character's priority sonic's for the mostpart is poor. his up smash is ez2c comin
who cares about invincibility frames in the beginning of his side b no sonic does that up close. his f smash is SLOW. his up air ie ez to c coming, and is situational. so is his b air.

If I may interject..

Brawl is a piss poor game.
EVERYTHING is easy to see coming, thanks to the lack of options and general horrible fluidity of gameplay. There is nothing inherent about attacks like his uair (4 frame start up, godly range) that make them predictable. The level 3 computers you're playing against are just doin it rong.

Also I question whether this person knows how priority actually works. Other than Sonic's spins with their horribly small hitboxes, Sonic has good priority on a lot of attacks. Not that Sonic's the kind of character who's meant to just charge head-long into an opponent anyways >_>

vato_break · May 1, 2009

Still mario is better...i don't have to prove it.... dont fight it...embrace it
Mario has better tools than sonic does and that's why mario will always be a better character in general.

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

Mario_ 101 said:
sonic can't kill.

Sonic has kill power typical of a midweight. Which is around 120 or so % unharged.
His kill power is basically the same as Mario.

Mario_ 101 said:
his attacks are slow.

The only three moves that are slow are Fsmash,Usmash,Dsmash and Bair.

That is only 4 moves.
Everything else comes out in less than 8 frames.

Mario_ 101 said:
he has low priority.

He putprioritizes both Wario and pikachu and can beat out Links Dair with his Uair
His priority is not low.

Mario_ 101 said:
his spinz r ezcakes 2 stop.

What n00bs are you playing that they let you stop his spincharges?

Mario_ 101 said:
all he can do is run fast nuff said :[P>

All mario can do is get infinited my DDD.
Which is the summarizaition of your intelligence.

Mario_ 101 said:
all his kill moves are situational or take too long lolololol.

So all of mario's kill moves are really really fast and are able to be linked into from another move?
He has tons of setups for his kills?

Mario_ 101 said:
and compared to other character's priority sonic's for the mostpart is poor./quote]
Soic is actually average.
Stop living in March.

Mario_ 101 said:

his up smash is ez2c comin

Click to expand...

its not a kill move.
Mario's Fsmash is ez2seaCumming

Mario_ 101 said:

who cares about invincibility frames in the beginning of his side b no sonic does that up close.

Click to expand...

Play better Sonics.
Side B is safe on block and when you attempt to grab or hit him out of his side B , he just ***** you for it.

Mario_ 101 said:

his f smash is SLOW.

Click to expand...

Forward Smash: 15
Up Smash: 9
Dsmash: 5

The fastest among Mario's kill moves is his Dsmash. Unfortuately he has o method for linking into his Dsmash making it very easy to avoid. It is also more easily punished on block than Metaknights while lacking the trajectory of MK's.lacks the range of
Which means you wont kill with Dsmash very easily.

Upsmash and Fsmash kill better but they both are broadcasted on when Mario is going to use them.

Mario_ 101 said:

his up air ie ez to c coming, and is situational. [/quoe]
Woooooow.
Look at this fool.
Do you not realize how good Sonics Uair is?

It has WTF range that is applicable in MANY situations.

Mario_ 101 said:

so is his b air.

Click to expand...

The only thing he got right.

Oh and stop trolling, you insult Mario users.
If you are going to troll, do it right.

Example
sonic>Mario
Why?
Blue **** is better than red ****

Click to expand...

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

vato_break said:
Still mario is better...i don't have to prove it.... dont fight it...embrace it
Mario has better tools than sonic does and that's why mario will always be a better character in general.

get out.
If you have nothing to say or add and you're just going to spew crap without any logical or empirical reasoning, you need to just stop posting.

vato_break · May 1, 2009

aeghrur said:
get out.
If you have nothing to say or add and you're just going to spew crap without any logical or empirical reasoning, you need to just stop posting.

alright then but, before i leave...tell me this

do you beilive sonic is better than mario? if so why?

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

vato_break said:
alright then but, before i leave...tell me this

do you beilive sonic is better than mario? if so why?

I personally don't care. I hardly play this game. I just hate seeing people spew those fake ideals all over the boards.

A2ZOMG · May 1, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
*googles up a ROM forum*

I am sorry apparently we are having to disagree on this issue.
I am counting... over 20+ ROM hacks for Sonics first three games alone.
You done lying?
Cause its just not cool when you make things up.

Sonic ROM hacks don't have tool-assisted speedruns. If your ROM hack has a tool-assisted speedrun, it must be insanely ****ing good. If not, who the hell cares about it?

Plus, automatic Super Mario World rom hacks >>>>>> ANY Sonic rom hack.

I am sorry but how does Mario do clearly better against Marth than sonic when Mario get s outspaced to hell by both the Ape and the Gay man?

IIRC, the two characters have very similar matchups against those characters (though i believe Sonic has an easier time handling marths spacing issues than Mario does for my own reasons).

Mario can KILL Marth out of shield better. He spaces better against Marth with kill moves in general due to his F-smash having a lot more range than Marth's or SOnic's for that matter. And he actually can camp somewhat against Marth can get him to approach, not to mention he edgeguards Marth better either through a better edge game or Cape **** and stuff.

Mario does better against DK for the same reasons. Mario does better against G&W due to actually being able to beat G&W's B-air and due to having more mindgames in close range, or being able to CAMP G&W (yes, it's viable, especially if you're going for the kill).

So unless we are talking about a deviation of more than 5 points matchup ratio wise, then how does mario do CLEARLY better?

You guys have Marth as your worst matchup or something, but Mario really doesn't do that badly against Marth despite what the Marth forums may say. The differences between DK and G&W matchups are probably smaller.

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

vato_break said:
alright then but, before i leave...tell me this

do you beilive sonic is better than mario? if so why?

19 Sonic (11 top8, 4 top4, 4 top2, 3 wins) - 97.5

33 Mario (6 top8, 1 top4) - 4.9

This has been consistent through the time brawl has been out.
It really is the only thing that can push Sonic being better than Mario because of how close they are matchup wise.

A2ZOMG said:
Sonic ROM hacks don't have tool-assisted speedruns.

Its called the speedrun archive.
You should look it up.

A2ZOMG said:
If your ROM hack has a tool-assisted speedrun, it must be insanely ****ing good. If not, who the hell cares about it?

Sorry who cares about FAN MADE GAMES!
Speed run archive ****s on you by the way.

A2ZOMG said:
Plus, automatic Super Mario World rom hacks >>>>>> ANY Sonic rom hack.

The thing that kills it is yourself. =)
Let alone its opinion based

A2ZOMG said:
Mario can KILL Marth out of shield better.

Marth outranges Mario soooo. Whata re you doing OOS that lets you do something to him?
Sonic can perform an OOS Dash attack and hit him.
Where as mario cannot do anything.
Play better Marths or stop lying.

A2ZOMG said:
He spaces better against Marth with kill moves in general due to his F-smash having a lot more range than Marth's

WHAT!?

Hopefully I do this right.
You are a moron.
None of Mario's smashes out range Marth's.

A2ZOMG said:
or SOnic's for that matter.

Which they don't either.
In fact, on e akill move basis Sonic actually OUTRANGES Mario

A2ZOMG said:
And he actually can camp somewhat against Marth can get him to approach,

jab jab, jab, FTILT FAIR, FAIR.
Your projectile game means nothing to Marth, you do not have a good projectile that can truly force him close.
Marth can stand there and just space you to death and Mario cannot do anything to it really.

A2ZOMG said:
not to mention he edgeguards Marth better either through a better edge game or Cape **** and stuff.

Cape ****?
Really?
Against a character who has better range than you in EVERY single way. Do tell me how you will cape him unless he ^B's and stops in front of you.

Hell you could have at least said Fludd and I would say, hey thats possibly true.
Either way, you aren't gimping Marth because he falls rather slowly and is a lightweight and DI laughs at your edge guarding ability when facing Marth.

A2ZOMG said:
Mario does better against DK for the same reasons.

I LOLed.
considering DK has even MORE range than marth an also has a momentum canceling move.

A2ZOMG said:
Mario does better against G&W due to actually being able to beat G&W's B-air and due to having more mindgames /b]in close range.

The bolded will be ignroed.
Do name the moves that Mario has that go THROUGH the turtle.

A2ZOMG said:

You guys have Marth as your worst matchup or something,

Click to expand...

No we don't.
Put on some glasses.
Marth isnt a bad matchup for anyone except a handful of characters (Falcon).

A2ZOMG said:

but Mario really doesn't do that badly against Marth despite what the Marth forums may say.

Click to expand...

I take the marth forums word over your cause unlike you, they have a good ability at analyzing things.

:mad: · May 1, 2009

aeghrur said:
Straked, where's your calvin and hobbes avatar? Dx

I - I'm so sorry.

I'll go get it now. I'm trying to get a Hobbes avatar with every Brawl character's hat. I only have Wario, Ness, and Mario so far...

A Sonic Hobbes would be pretty cool.
And now I see why most people avoid coming to this thread... :laugh:

Mario_ 101 · May 1, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
Sonic has kill power typical of a midweight. Which is around 120 or so % unharged.
His kill power is basically the same as Mario.

The only three moves that are slow are Fsmash,Usmash,Dsmash and Bair.

That is only 4 moves.
Everything else comes out in less than 8 frames.

He putprioritizes both Wario and pikachu and can beat out Links Dair with his Uair
His priority is not low.

What n00bs are you playing that they let you stop his spincharges?

All mario can do is get infinited my DDD.
Which is the summarizaition of your intelligence.

So all of mario's kill moves are really really fast and are able to be linked into from another move?
He has tons of setups for his kills?

Mario_ 101 said:

and compared to other character's priority sonic's for the mostpart is poor./quote]
Soic is actually average.
Stop living in March.

its not a kill move.
Mario's Fsmash is ez2seaCumming

Play better Sonics.
Side B is safe on block and when you attempt to grab or hit him out of his side B , he just ***** you for it.

Forward Smash: 15
Up Smash: 9
Dsmash: 5

The fastest among Mario's kill moves is his Dsmash. Unfortuately he has o method for linking into his Dsmash making it very easy to avoid. It is also more easily punished on block than Metaknights while lacking the trajectory of MK's.lacks the range of
Which means you wont kill with Dsmash very easily.

Upsmash and Fsmash kill better but they both are broadcasted on when Mario is going to use them.

Mario_ 101 said:

his up air ie ez to c coming, and is situational. [/quoe]
Woooooow.
Look at this fool.
Do you not realize how good Sonics Uair is?

It has WTF range that is applicable in MANY situations.

The only thing he got right.

Oh and stop trolling, you insult Mario users.
If you are going to troll, do it right.

Example
sonic>Mario
Why?
Blue **** is better than red ****

Click to expand...

dear sir i did nothing to insult u. im just listing points. but u want this to be a flame war. :[(>

and sonic can't kill any1 at 120% if they DI, momentum cancel. only if they r near the edge of a SMALL stage i bet. unless u mean a charged smash. but no one falls 4 that. spincharge isn't gud in the first place. mario holding a button to jab constantly>spin charge -_- srsly sonic has bad priority get ur facts right plz. yes mario's moves r fast and link together well and he can setup kills well if he knows what he is doing. mario's aerials are extremely fast.
Mario's f smash has tons of range and only n00b marios make it something predictable.
and like i said sonic's up air is bad. mario's up air > sonic's. stop trying to make your character look better than it is. im srry but newsflash... SONIC IS NOT THAT GOOD AT ALL! mario isn't top tier material either but he's better than sonic.

Click to expand...

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

Straked said:
I - I'm so sorry.
I'll go get it now. I'm trying to get a Hobbes avatar with every Brawl character's hat. I only have Wario, Ness, and Mario so far...

A Sonic Hobbes would be pretty cool.
And now I see why most people avoid coming to this thread...

<3 hobbes, :D
Sonic hobbes would be pretty beast, lol.
It'd be pretty awkward/funny too.

:mad: · May 1, 2009

@Mario_101 - I think the Sonics would maybe respect us more if you at least put up a reasonable argument. :/
You're just looking to be flamed, man.

<3 hobbes, :D
Sonic hobbes would be pretty beast, lol.
It'd be pretty awkward/funny too.

Yeah! I can imagine it a little like Kirby copying Sonic's ability, with the hedgehog spikes.
Lol yeah, the Wario hat's pretty silly, too.

aeghrur · May 1, 2009

Straked said:
@Mario_101 - I think the Sonics would maybe respect us more if you at least put up a reasonable argument. :/
You're just looking to be flamed, man.

Yeah! I can imagine it a little like Kirby copying Sonic's ability, with the hedgehog spikes.
Lol yeah, the Wario hat's pretty silly, too.

I personally give respect to mario mains until they make stupid statements, lol. You guys are pretty legit.

And lolololol, needs the wario eyes/mouths. xD

:mad: · May 1, 2009

aeghrur said:
I personally give respect to mario mains until they make stupid statements, lol. You guys are pretty legit.

And lolololol, needs the wario eyes/mouths. xD

I've never played a good Sonic, so I underestimate you guys as it is. :laugh:

I only play the ones that dash attack and Fsmash the entire game.

-warioavatar-

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

dear sir i did nothing to insult u.

Dear Mario_101,

STOP ****** ME!

~Sincerely, the English language.
'

im just listing points. but u want this to be a flame war. :[(>

me proving you wrong is a flame war?

QQ moar.

and sonic can't kill any1 at 120% if they DI, momentum cancel.

hat goes for Mario as well.
hur hur.

only if they r near the edge of a SMALL stage i bet.

Read the above

unless u mean a charged smash.

I would have said charged smash if I meant charged smash.

but no one falls 4 that.

Youtube. Its a sexy thing.

spincharge isn't gud in the first place.

A move that can be cancelled and then let you do ANYTHING?
A move that i completely safe on block?
A move that can lead into 32% combos up til higher percents?
A move that places opponents in terrible situations?
A move that lets him punish TONS of thing?
Riiiiiight.

mario holding a button to jab constantly>spin charge

It helps if the Sonic user isn t turning as he runs into your jab.
Durign then he has o hitbox and no priority.

-_- srsly sonic has bad priority get ur facts right plz.

LOL!

Did you know that sonics specials follow the ten percent rule.
So jab>spincharge is untrue.

Since unless the move are different by a percentage of 11% they will clang.

yes mario's moves r fast and link together well and he can setup kills well if he knows what he is doing. mario's aerials are extremely fast.

Sonics aerials come out, on average, in 5 frames.
Mario's come out on average of around 5 or so frames.

Also, Marios erials link together only at low percents.
Alo a setup is where a move leads to a kill move.
your opponent running into an Fsmash is not a setup BTW.

Mario's f smash has tons of range and only n00b marios make it something predictable./quote]
15 frames has nothing to do with it.

and like i said sonic's up air is bad.

Click to expand...

Pics disagree.

mario's up air > sonic's.

Click to expand...

For comboes, at low percents.

stop trying to make your character look better than it is.

Click to expand...

Its called being hypocritical.
Practice what you preach.

im srry but newsflash... SONIC IS NOT THAT GOOD AT ALL!

Click to expand...

19 Sonic (11 top8, 4 top4, 4 top2, 3 wins) - 97.5

Not good at all?
Not even...a little bit...

mario isn't top tier material either but he's better than sonic.

Click to expand...

Even though he has been stuck in E tier?
Now I do believe fully that mario is not used by high level people.
but we must also considering that between the two characters, they dont really have anything over each other. Mathcup wise, they are pretty much even save a few matches.As much as I enjoy crushing stupity it gets tiring.

*waits for matador or some other intelligent Mario mainer to walk in for discussion*

Chis · May 1, 2009

Mario 101, ShadowLink knows A LOT more about Sonic then you. This is at high level play, which he has lots of knowledge about. You should be the one getting your facts straight.

Edit: Darn it, SL, you and your WOT beating me to the punch...

A2ZOMG · May 1, 2009

ShadowLink84 said:
WHAT!?

Hopefully I do this right.
You are a moron.
None of Mario's smashes out range Marth's.

You obviously don't think things through, so let me point out one thing. Something that an idiot can understand easily.

Stutter stepping and leanback hax. Mario's F-smash is able to reach a spot that is further away from him when F-smashing. The leanback on the charge stance, if used to dodge Marth's F-smash, also makes Mario outdistance Marth's F-smash.

Thus it has more actual range than Marth's F-smash.

Would you deny that Wolf has one of the longest ranged F-smashes in this game? Mario actually is a top contender for raw range on his F-smash. Since it comes out 15 frames which isn't unreasonably slow, it's able to punish MANY MANY whiffed attacks.

Mario_ 101 · May 1, 2009

Mario DOES have a better pro-con ratio. and shadowlink idc lololo. so y dun u guys prove sonic has a better pro con ratio than mario?

ShadowLink84 · May 1, 2009

A2ZOMG said:
You obviously don't think things through, so let me point out one thing. Something that an idiot can understand easily.

Have you not gotten tired of mehanding you your *** EVERYTIME you talk about Sonic?
I have smashed you in AIB,SWF The Sonic Forums, other character forums.
Seriusly do you have this massive bias that makes you spew false information wherever you go concerning sonic?

A2ZOMG said:
Stutter stepping and leanback hax.

WHICH ISNT CHARACTER SPECIFIC!
WHICH DOESNT ICNREASE RANGE!

This is basic mechanics.
You are not sliding during the attck.
You are moving THEN attacking.

Your range is not increasing. Get a clue, even when you stutterstep, your Fsmash is slow just like Sonics.
Marth isnt going to stand there and take it!

A2ZOMG said:
Mario's F-smash is able to reach a spot that is further away from him when F-smashing.

Sonic does it too, and he does it even better!

A2ZOMG said:
The leanback on the charge stance,

Which Sonic does.

A2ZOMG said:
if used to dodge Marth's F-smash, also makes Mario outdistance Marth's F-smash.

You are NOT outdistancing ANYTHING!
Your terminology is COMPLETELY messed up.

Wheny ou say you outrange someone, you don't mean, "I can get you in my attack range" it means,
I can keep you in my attack range but I will not be in yours."
Which is what marth does. A correctly spaced Fair/Fsmash is not outranged by any of Mario's moves.
Unless you have some method where he does like Pit and slides forward DURING the Fsmash, your range is not increasing.
If Marth Fsmashes and you stutterstep and hit him , you arent increasing your range. you are just moving closer AFTER his attack has passed by.

A2ZOMG said:
Thus it has more actual range than Marth's F-smash.

As I specified earlier it does not.

A2ZOMG said:
Would you deny that Wolf has one of the longest ranged F-smashes in this game?

Course not, he has MOVING hitbox.

A2ZOMG said:
Mario actually is a top contender for raw range on his F-smash.

marios Fsmash range is comparable to Sonics Fsmash range.
Did you know?

A2ZOMG said:
Since it comes out 15 frames

Sonics is only 2 frames slower!
Average human reaction is 12 frames!
High level players have an even smaller reaction time.

Its unreasonably slow.
Especially when you have Marios Dsmash coming out in 5 and pits fsmash coming out in 5 and Wolfs coming out in 8.

Shall i go on?
Let alone that mario has NO setup for his Fsmash.

A2ZOMG said:
which isn't unreasonably slow,

As said earlier it is, so you cant use it as an offensive move or fdefensive cause you lack the range and speed of Lucasrio and MK's Fsmash.

A2ZOMG said:
it's able to punish MANY MANY whiffed attacks.

Sonics can as well.
In fact, it can punish more because his stutterstep his THAT much better than mario's.
I am getting tired of arguing with you about Sonic when its obvious you have learned NOTHING within this year.

@everyone: ignore Mario101 he is a troll.

Is Sonic Mid-tier material? Is he better than Bowser again? (Read the OP)

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