~ Zelda's Matchups: Let's Get Tactical ~

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Oct 26, 2010

-Mars- said:
Fuujin is annoying.

I'm going to assume that this has something to do with the Sheik samus MU discussion ?

-Mars- · Oct 26, 2010

Nah just any thread he posts in he comes off as a douche

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Oct 27, 2010

-Mars- said:
Nah just any thread he posts in he comes off as a douche

Ah I see.

10 character limit thingy

AyatoK26 · Nov 26, 2010

Seeing as we haven't touched this in a while, I would like to move onto another matchup. I would like to move onto the Pit matchup. I don't even know if it's in our favor. I'm not even sure if I'm approaching to win in the matchup properly. If anything, if we can get onto this and get done with soon, the better.

That being said, can we do Pit?

Fuujin · Nov 26, 2010

AyatoK26 said:
Seeing as we haven't touched this in a while, I would like to move onto another matchup. I would like to move onto the Pit matchup. I don't even know if it's in our favor. I'm not even sure if I'm approaching to win in the matchup properly. If anything, if we can get onto this and get done with soon, the better.

That being said, can we do Pit?

Nothing above E tier is in Zelda's favor.

JigglyZelda003 · Nov 27, 2010

i would be all up for doing pit. alot of times when i fight one i know the basics of dealing w/ camping characters, but not much specific to pit that could make the matchup easier for me to play.

KayLo! · Nov 27, 2010

Pit sounds good. I'll put a thread up.

EDIT: Here ya go: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=292367

Figured no one else was gonna do it. =X

AyatoK26 · Nov 30, 2010

Thanks Kay, you helpful Pika.

AyatoK26 · Dec 29, 2010

On the OP, shouldn't we switch our MK ratio switch to something higher than G&W's seeing as he's our worst matchup? I think GW is 25:75 IIRC.

KayLo! · Dec 29, 2010

Doesn't matter much since they're both bad lol. All the ratios need to be fixed prob. x.o

KenniSpam! · Dec 30, 2010

nair is such an underated move... it is GREAT oos (probably zelda's best oos option), has decent KO potential, and can be used to edgeguard people thanks to its super armor frames

Kataefi · Dec 30, 2010

I bet you also use it to KO Dedede at 50!

AyatoK26 said:
On the OP, shouldn't we switch our MK ratio switch to something higher than G&W's seeing as he's our worst matchup? I think GW is 25:75 IIRC.

What's a realistic difference between 20:80 and 25:75? Colours are more blunt at identifying the threat of a character so when I update this (which I will in the new year I promise =p), I'll likely use colours over numbers, and we only need 3!

Dark Red, Red and Yellow

Can we make lists as to what we all think of Zelda's matchups? Let's get an updated collective opinion to mark the end of 2011! I'll start off!

Meta Knight: super death
Snake: heavy disadvantage
Diddy Kong:
Falco:
Wario: heavy disadvantage
Marth: disadvantage
Ice Climbers: disadvantage
Olimar: super death
Pikachu:
King Dedede: even
Mr. Game & Watch:
Lucario:
Zero Suit Samus
Toon Link
Kirby: disadvantage
Fox:
R.O.B.:
Pit:
Peach: disadvantage
Donkey Kong:
Luigi:
Wolf: I.HATE.HIM
Sonic: disadvantage
Ike: disadvantage
Sheik: disadvantage
Ness:
Pokémon Trainer:
Yoshi:
Lucas: even
Mario:
Bowser:
Captain Falcon:
Samus:
Jigglypuff: even
Link: disadvantage
Zelda: double rainbow across the sky
Ganondorf: even

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Dec 30, 2010

Wario heavy disadvantage ? really?

KenniSpam! said:
nair is such an underated move... it is GREAT oos (probably zelda's best oos option), has decent KO potential, and can be used to edgeguard people thanks to its super armor frames

wait nair has super armor frames?????????? WTF......

GodAtHand · Dec 30, 2010

I'll use: Heavy Disadvantage, Disadvantage, Light Disadvantage, Even, Light Advantage.

Meta Knight: Disadvantage
Snake: Disadvantage
Diddy Kong: Light Disadvantage
Falco: Disadvantage
Wario: Light Disadvantage
Marth:Light Disadvantage
Ice Climbers: Even
Olimar: Heavy Disadvantage
Pikachu: Light Disadvantage
King Dedede: Light Disadvantage
Mr. Game & Watch:Heavy Disadvantage
Lucario: Light Disadvantage
Zero Suit Samus: Light Disadvantage
Toon Link: Light Disadvantage
Kirby:Light Disadvantage
Fox: Light Disadvantage
R.O.B.: Light Disadvantage
Pit: Light Disadvantage
Peach: Light Disadvantage
Donkey Kong: Light Disadvantage
Luigi: Even
Wolf:Light Disadvantage
Sonic: Disadvantage
Ike: Light Disadvantage
Sheik:Light Disadvantage
Ness: Light Disadvantage
Pokémon Trainer: Even
Yoshi: Even
Lucas: Even
Mario:Even
Bowser: Light Advantage
Captain Falcon: Light Advantage
Samus: Even
Jigglypuff: Even
Link:Even
Zelda: Even
Ganondorf: Light Advantage

#HBC | Scary · Dec 30, 2010

I'll go next lol.

MK: Solid Disadvantage
Snake: Solid Disadvantage
Diddy Kong: Disadvantage
Falco: Solid Disavantage
Wario: Disadvantage
Marth: Slight Disadvantage
ICs: Disadvantage
Olimar: Solid Disadvantage
Pikachu: Slight Disadvantage
D3: Even
Mr. G&W: Solid Disadvantage
Lucario: Slight Disadvantge
ZSS: Disadvantage
TL: Disadvantage
Kirby: Disadvantage
Fox: Disadvantage
ROB: Even
Pit: Slight Disadvantage
Peach: Disadvantage
DK: Even
Luigi: Slight Disadvantage
Wolf: Slight Disadvantage
Sonic: Disadvantage
Ike: Even
Sheik: Disadvantage
Ness: Even
Squirtle: Disadvantage
Ivysaur: Slight Advantage
Charizard: Even
Yoshi: Slight Disadvantage
Lucas: Even
Mario: Even
Bowser: Even
Captain Falcon: Slight Advantage
Samus: Slight Disadvantage
Jiggs: Even
Link: Even
Zelda: LOLWUT?
Ganon: Advantage

This is our opinion right? My opinion on our MUs is kinda radical at times so.......meh. *Expecting some sort of WHAT reaction*

EDIT: I wish I could use colors from my phone lol. That'd take forever!

GodAtHand · Dec 30, 2010

I guess 50:50 is even
40/45:60/55 is light disadvantage
30/35:70/65 is disadvantage
and anything worse is heavy disadvantage

got ninja'd lol, this was for mine =P

#HBC | Scary · Dec 30, 2010

GodAtHand said:
I guess 50:50 is even
40/45:60/55 is light disadvantage
30/35:70/65 is disadvantage
and anything worse is heavy disadvantage

got ninja'd lol, this was for mine =P

Exactly what mine is except Light Disadvantage is 45:55 and Disadvantage is 40-60. Everything else below is Solid.

Kataefi · Dec 30, 2010

No that's all fine Scary! I think the more we all share about how we feel the current metagame is playing the better it is for us.

I feel as if Wario is a heavy disadvantage because I can't hit him, and he seems to always poke at me and then I feel like smashville's balloon when I get knocked afar because he baits and punishes me with uair, which I find devastating in this MU. I think there are situations where you can dtilt his aerials and then he's like WTF DO I DO in which you can capitalise with a grab or whatever, but those are few and far. I find pivot grabs to be quite helpful too at times. Anyone got any advice?

GodAtHand · Dec 30, 2010

You both just play chicken and footsie with each other until one of you screws up, and then that one get's punished. Make sure it's not you...

#HBC | Scary · Dec 30, 2010

GodAtHand said:
You both just play chicken and footsie with each other until one of you screws up, and then that one get's punished. Make sure it's not you...

Pretty much this.

Wario is evil if he plays with the intent to time out but if you get a hold of him, make him feel it. Nair is good and if I'm not mistaken, jab is actually pretty good in this MU.

Kataefi · Dec 30, 2010

I like the expression chicken and footsie

I normally try to camp a mixture of bairs/fsmashes/and ~~strategic~~ random dairs against Wario but I find his aerial movement allows him to evade and counter all these easily, and then I get overwhelmed. I must work on my offstage strategies against him!

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Dec 30, 2010

Kataefi said:
No that's all fine Scary! I think the more we all share about how we feel the current metagame is playing the better it is for us.

I feel as if Wario is a heavy disadvantage because I can't hit him, and he seems to always poke at me and then I feel like smashville's balloon when I get knocked afar because he baits and punishes me with uair, which I find devastating in this MU. I think there are situations where you can dtilt his aerials and then he's like WTF DO I DO in which you can capitalise with a grab or whatever, but those are few and far. I find pivot grabs to be quite helpful too at times. Anyone got any advice?

Nair jab dtilt fsmash you can keep him out pretty decently. Usmash if he tries to AD through you. Mix it up but I suggest a heavy use of nair.

Kataefi said:
I like the expression chicken and footsie I normally try to camp a mixture of bairs/fsmashes/and ~~strategic~~ random dairs against Wario but I find his aerial movement allows him to evade and counter all these easily, and then I get overwhelmed. I must work on my offstage strategies against him!

I normally just throw Din's at him while he's off stage. It knocks him off the bike so it forces them to recover on the stage. But nair is the move you want to be using with spacing and jabs also and dtilts are good also.

KayLo! · Dec 31, 2010

I tend to use a lot of fair or bair (whichever I don't plan to save for the kill) against Wario. Nair too. He's never on the ground long enough for a strong ground game, and usmash is too laggy/lacks the mobility of aerials.

Gotta try more jab tho.

AyatoK26 · Dec 31, 2010

Meta Knight: disadvantage
Snake: disadvantage
Diddy Kong:
Falco: disadvantage
Wario:
Marth: disadvantage
Ice Climbers:
Olimar: put controller down and walk away
Pikachu:
King Dedede: even
Mr. Game & Watch: punch the other player and walk away
Lucario:
Zero Suit Samus:
Toon Link:
Kirby:
Fox:
R.O.B.:
Pit: slight disadvantage
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Luigi:
Wolf: even
Sonic: even
Ike: disadvantage
Sheik: slight advantage
Ness: even
Pokémon Trainer:
Yoshi:
Lucas: even
Mario:
Bowser: advantage
Captain Falcon:
Samus:
Jigglypuff:
Link:
Zelda: even
Ganondorf: advantage

For Oli and GW, the matchups are THAT bad. For the missing ratios, I just haven't played enough/don't know the matchup at all.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Dec 31, 2010

KayLo! said:
I tend to use a lot of fair or bair (whichever I don't plan to save for the kill) against Wario. Nair too. He's never on the ground long enough for a strong ground game, and usmash is too laggy/lacks the mobility of aerials.

Gotta try more jab tho.

I only use Usmash if he tries to air dodge through it or if he goes for a dair. But I found nair to be very effective against him. Same with jab and dtilt.

Kataefi · Dec 31, 2010

Omg I made a new xat chat room which is even better than a xat chat room: http://tinychat.com/lightningkick

Someone come and join me!

Darkmusician · Jan 3, 2011

AyatoK26 said:
Meta Knight: disadvantage
Snake: disadvantage
Diddy Kong:
Falco: disadvantage
Wario:
Marth: disadvantage
Ice Climbers:
Olimar: put controller down and walk away
Pikachu:
King Dedede: even
Mr. Game & Watch: punch the other player and walk away
Lucario:
Zero Suit Samus:
Toon Link:
Kirby:
Fox:
R.O.B.:
Pit: slight disadvantage
Peach:
Donkey Kong:
Luigi:
Wolf: even
Sonic: even
Ike: disadvantage
Sheik: slight advantage
Ness: even
Pokémon Trainer:
Yoshi:
Lucas: even
Mario:
Bowser: advantage
Captain Falcon:
Samus:
Jigglypuff:
Link:
Zelda: even
Ganondorf: advantage

For Oli and GW, the matchups are THAT bad. For the missing ratios, I just haven't played enough/don't know the matchup at all.

Zelda does not go even with that many characters. And she certainly does not have the advantage against Sheik.

Noobicidal · Jan 6, 2011

Hello there, Zelda users. We over at the Jigglypuff board are currently discussing the Zelda match up, and your participation would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your time.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295091

#HBC | Red Ryu · Jan 6, 2011

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=11931318#post11931318

Hello Zelda boards Link's are discussing the match-up, we would like your input on this.

Fluttershy · Jan 6, 2011

I've been able to test the landing on pit (with farore's wind). if it is used directly above him it will go through the up smash and hit him. but if its done a little bit to the left or right it will clash with his up smash, then its a "whoever can get a faster hit in".

Toadallstar2 · Jan 8, 2011

Olimars are so hard to hit. There is like no way to get to them. G&w is too powerful. Their forward smash kills very early. I rely on down smash all the time for these two.

AyatoK26 · Jan 11, 2011

Darkmusician said:
Zelda does not go even with that many characters. And she certainly does not have the advantage against Sheik.

Isn't this a collection of how we personally think Zelda does against the rest of the cast? I'm just posting my opinion on it. This list isn't perfect (hence the missing ratios), trust me.

And now that I look at it, yea, Sheik > Zelda.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Jan 12, 2011

Meta Knight: disadvantage
Snake: disadvantage
Diddy Kong: even
Falco: even
Wario: even
Marth: even
Ice Climbers: even
Olimar: disadvantage
Pikachu: advantage
King Dedede: slight advantage
Mr. Game & Watch: slight disadvantage
Lucario: advantage
Zero Suit Samus: even
Toon Link: slight disadvantage
Kirby: advantage
Fox: even
R.O.B.: slight disadvantage
Pit: even
Peach: even
Donkey Kong: advantage
Luigi: even
Wolf: even
Sonic: annoying
Ike: advantage
Sheik: advantage
Ness: advantage
Pokémon Trainer: advantage
Yoshi: advantage
Lucas: advantage
Mario: advantage
Bowser: advantage
Captain Falcon: advantage
Samus: annoying
Jigglypuff: advantage
Link: advantage
Zelda: annoying
Ganondorf: advantage

Zelda MU's. IMO.

Darkmusician · Jan 12, 2011

Zelda's a beast.

WickedDeceit · Jan 12, 2011

Al you need to play better players.

AyatoK26 · Jan 13, 2011

On a side note, I just found out that when Mario is U-tilt juggling us, we can Neutral B it to escape it as well as to inflict damage. I'm hoping this works out against other chars as well (Lucario U-tilt comes to mind on that one).

I'm not sure if this is really helpful but I thought I would mention it regardless.

Fuujin · Jan 13, 2011

AyatoK26 said:
On a side note, I just found out that when Mario is U-tilt juggling us, we can Neutral B it to escape it as well as to inflict damage. I'm hoping this works out against other chars as well (Lucario U-tilt comes to mind on that one).

I'm not sure if this is really helpful but I thought I would mention it regardless.

That's if you time the invincibility frames right, it works for pretty much anything.
You can beat Snakes forward smash if it's timed right.

KayLo! · Jan 13, 2011

It works as a mixup, but eventually they'll bait it and punish. So be careful. =X

Fuujin · Jan 13, 2011

KayLo! said:
It works as a mixup, but eventually they'll bait it and punish. So be careful. =X

Not to mention the timing is incredibly strict.
You have like 5 frames of invincibility and the opponent has 30 to punish you if you miss.
Nayru's would be so much better if the ending lag wasn't ridiculous.

AlMoStLeGeNdArY · Jan 13, 2011

Darkmusician said:
Zelda's a beast.

I know right I'm glad you're finally starting to see it my way.

WickedDeceit said:
Al you need to play better players.

It's a paradox if I play a better player and lose it won't be because of Zelda but because of the difference in our skill level. However if I beat a good player it won't be because of my skill level or the MU but the lack of knowledge on that person part. So it's hard to attempt to put the theorycraft into practice sorry =/.

~ Zelda's Matchups: Let's Get Tactical ~

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Hero

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Smarter than your average wabbit.

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smarter than your average wabbit.

Smash Master

*smoke machine*

Smash Hero

Smash Lord

Hype Incarnate

Smash Lord

Hype Incarnate

*smoke machine*

Smash Lord

Hype Incarnate

*smoke machine*

Smash Hero

Smarter than your average wabbit.

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

*smoke machine*

Smash Master

Smash Master

Red Fox Warrior

Element of Kindness

Smash Journeyman

Smash Journeyman

Smash Hero

Smash Master

Smash Cadet

Smash Journeyman

Smash Champion

Smarter than your average wabbit.

Smash Champion

Smash Hero

Information

Network

smoke machine

smoke machine

smoke machine

smoke machine