SSBM: Stage Banishment and Reasoning

But Why Can't I Play There?
A Guide to Stage Banning in SSBM

Introduction: I've thought about writing this guide for the last year but it was only recently that I actually found the motivation and inspiration to do it. It is important to realize that stage banning in the SSBM tournament scene hasn't had a defined practice or even any universal rules. Frequently, a tournament host will simply ban a stage because they feel, for an inexplicable reason, that it is unbalanced, or unfair. For this reason I will color the names of each stage either Red or Yellow, depending on the concreteness of the stages explanation. It is also important to understand a little bit about positioning in Smash, that is, when you have a lead, your are never forced to attack, you can instead choose to run or camp. This attribute leads to many problems with certain stages, as you will soon find out.

Red: A stage marked with this color is one that has a universally accepted reason.
Yellow: A stage marked with this color is one that has never had a fully explained (written) reason for its banishment. As such, I have given my own explanation for their bans.

Defensive Player: Player who has a small percentage lead and can therefore not attack (by choice).
Offensive Player: Player who is losing by a small percentage and therefore most attack because not doing so would result in losing the game by percentage tie breaking.

Before we get into why each stage is banned, it is important to note what would happen if the stages weren't banned. Frequently, take the case of Hyrule Temple, if we had left this stage unbanned then essentially the only viable character match up on the stage would be Fox versus Fox (there may be a few exceptions, but not many). The tournament level play would devolve into the same character match ups over and over, and more importantly (because of advanced slob picks) who had won their previous match would be forced to choose Fox if Hyrule Temple was chosen as the next stage by the loser, as any other character would mean a free win for the opponent. You may ask then: why not ban Fox on these stages? Well, then another strategy comes up that could be very similar. If Fox is banned, then quickly Captain Falcon or Falco become the only playable characters on the stage. Such logic also works with stage banning, though not as much, but as you'll see many of the stages were banned for the same or similar reasons, yet for some (odd) reason other stages with similar properties remain unbanned (view: Corneria). With that said, lets jump in.

Past Stages - Yoshi's Island (64) (banned ~2002-2003)
Inherent Flaw(s): The far right cloud.
Reason: Highly unfair positional advantage for defensive player.
Broken Tactic: Fox’s short hop or full hop laser spam. Followed by a retreat to the stage upon any characters close approach (usually once said character has fully committed himself to the far right cloud).

Hyrule Temple (banned ~ 2002-2003)
Inherent Flaw(s): It’s “circle”, so-to-speak.
Reason: Faster characters may simply run when a lead is gained. This could be Ness over Bowser or Kirby over Donkey Kong, for instance.
Broken Tactic: Fox can shoot a laser at the start of the match and run away for the remainder, uncatchable by almost every other character.

Termina - Great Bay (banned ~ 2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): It’s “circle”.
Reason(s): Some faster characters may simply run when a lead is gained.
Broken Tactic(s): Fox or Falco may laser camp one side of the stage, than simply run safely to the other upon the offensive players approach.

Lylat System - Venom (banned ~ 2004-2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): The divide through the center
Reason(s): Moderately unfair positional advantage for defensive player
Broken Tactic(s): Debatable, but theoretically certain characters like Marth or Peach can grab a lead and never relinquish it because the offensive player will always take more damage upon approach than he will be able to dish out in return.

Mushroom Kingdom - Princess Peach's Castle (banned ~ 2006)
Inherent Flaw(s): The divide through the center.
Reason(s): Moderately unfair positional advantage for defensive player
Broken Tactic(s): Debatable, but theoretically certain characters like Marth or Peach can grab a lead and never relinquish it because the offensive player will always take more damage upon approach than he will be able to dish out in return.
Personal Reason for Opening the Stage: The bullet creates several openings during the game in which the camper must relinquish his position. If the losing, offensive player simply waits for the openings, he should be able to make up whatever percentage lead he had previously lost (ideally he would only be down small percentages).

Eagleland - Fourside (banned ~ 2003)
Inherent Flaw(s): The divide through the center and the spaceship
Reason: Moderately unfair positional advantage for defensive player and unreasonable camera zoom during certain moments.
Broken Tactic: Debatable, but theoretically certain characters like Marth or Peach can grab a lead and never relinquish it because the offensive player will always take more damage upon approach than he will be able to dish out in return.

Planet Zebes - Brinstar Depths (banned ~ 2004)
Inherent Flaw(s): Random stage movement.
Reason: At certain moments there exist highly unfair positional advantages for the defensive player and at other moments there exist unforeseen advantages for the offensive player.
Broken Tactic: None - simply that one player is rewarded for a position they may have never worked to attain because the offensive players hand is eventually forced by the stages rotation (the alternative to not fighting is either taking an even worse position or committing suicide). In addition to this, sometimes a player’s weak combo, is aided randomly by the stages movement, unpredicted by both the offensive and defensive player.

Infinite Glacier - Icicle Mountain (banned ~ 2004)
Inherent Flaw(s): Random stage movement.
Reason(s): At certain moments there exist highly unfair positional advantages for the defensive player and at other moments there exist unforeseen advantages for the offensive player.
Broken Tactic: None - simply that one player is rewarded for a position they may have never worked to attain because the offensive players hand is eventually forced by the stages rotation (the alternative to not fighting is either taking an even worse position or committing suicide). In addition to this, sometimes a player’s weak combo, is aided randomly by the stages movement, unpredicted by both the offensive and defensive player.

Yoshi’s Island - Yoshi's Island (banned ~ 2004-2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): A walk off edge and an extremely low ceiling.
Reason(s): Moderately unfair positional advantage for defensive player
Broken Tactic: Debatable, but theoretically Fox can laser camp the mountain, then, upon the offensive players approach, decide whether or not to grab back throw. In addition to this, the walk off edges allows waveshining to devastate the opponent, and finally, if those weren’t enough advantages for Fox, the low ceiling greatly aids his up air and up smash.

Eagleland - Onett (banned ~ 2006)
Inherent Flaw(s): Walk off edges and a “circle”.
Reason(s): Slightly unfair positional advantage for the defensive player and the ability for a character to run from one end of the stage to the other, usually without being caught.
Broken Tactic: Fox laser camping one side of the stage behind a building, then running upon approach. To make matters worse, Fox can also waveshine people to death because of the walk off sides and can infinite shine them using the sides of the buildings as walls (though this does get interrupted because of the cars).
Personal Reason for Opening the Stage: The cars give fair warning of their approach and you can use this to your advantage. Any small percentage lead a Fox player gets can be nullified when they are forced to flee their defensive position upon the cars approach. A wise player can use this opening to even the match.

F-Zero Grand Prix - Big Blue (banned ~ 2004-2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): The road and the car placement.
Reason(s): Slightly unfair positional advantage for the defensive player and low percentage death’s caused by the road.
Broken Tactic: None - The road is the main gripe with the stage, as most of the positional problems eventually get resolved back to an even playing field if you’ve memorized the stage movement and know when and where to move about (be patient).
Personal Reason for Opening the Stage: You can tech the road, although the stage is inconsistent and sometimes even when you do tech it, you end up dying anyways. I feel the stage was banned to soon and could have had more play time, as no single character really stood out (although shining opponents off a car with Fox is annoying).

Superflat World - Flat Zone (banned ~ 2003)
Inherent Flaw(s): Walk off edges, falling tools, and extremely low ceiling and close walls.
Reasons(s): Moderately unfair positional advantage for the defensive player, and, in addition to this, the tools can combo a character from zero to death without warning (so they cannot be predicted).
Broken Tactic: It’s debatable, but aside from positioning, Fox’s waveshine can also lead to easy low percentage kills.

Mushroom Kingdom (banned ~ 2004-2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): Walk off edges.
Reason(s): Slightly unfair positional advantage for the defensive player.
Broken Tactic: It’s debatable, but aside from positioning, Fox’s waveshine can also lead to easy low percentage kills.

Mushroom Kingdom II (banned ~ 2004-2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): Walk off edges.
Reason(s): Slightly unfair positional advantage for the defensive player.
Broken Tactic: It’s debatable, but aside from positioning, Fox’s waveshine can also lead to easy low percentage kills.

DK Island - Kongo Jungle (banned ~ 2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): The claptrap and the rock to the right of the stage.
Reason(s): The claptrap can kill at random and the rock can create a slightly unfair positional advantage for the defensive player.
Broken Tactic: None.
Personal Reason for Opening the Stage: You can see the claptrap coming from far away, so even though it isn’t set on a timer it is easily avoidable. The rock argument is actually made less defensible when you consider the claptrap will force the defensive player out of their position at least a few times each match.

F-Zero Grand Prix - Mute City (banned in teams ~ 2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): None.
Reason(s): Potential lag on the stage when there are many characters performing different attacks, possibly caused by the computer attempting to keep track of the cars and their locations around the stage.

Dream Land - Fountain of Dreams (banned in teams ~ 2005)
Inherent Flaw(s): None.
Reason(s): Potential lag on the stage when there are many characters performing different attacks, possibly caused by the computer attempting to correspond character movements with their reflections in the water.

How does all this relate to Brawl? Well, take a look at the stages in SSBM and what was banned, and then think about what some of the properties of the known stages in Brawl.

I can't count the number of times I've read posts from people in this room wondering why certain things are banned in SSBM and how it will all work out with Brawl.

Xeno: You wouldn't be able to defeat me on any of these stages. Period. Not because I'll do anything skilled persay, but simply because, like on Yoshi 64, I'll laser camp, run away when you come to the cloud, the cloud will disappear, you will fall to your death, and the process will repeat. Even if you don't die, you'll be stuck on the far right cloud while I'm safely, and still, laser spamming you from the main stage. There is nothing you can do to win unless you want to pick Fox or Ness, but even so its risky, one mistep, 2% damage, and thats the game.

Your missing the whole point. Why would I fight you in an actual match when I know I can net a victory using these tactics? Remember, in the tournament scene, ties in stock are broken by percentage. It's the same in a fight for life and death. It may not be honorable if I bring a gun in a fight where everyone has knives, but in the end, I'll be the one who lives.

www.sirlin.net, read his playing to win articles.

sirlin said:

The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.

Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.

In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

Click to expand...

More on this: http://www.sirlin.net/ptw/intermediates-guide/introducing-the-scrub/

Xeno: you need to read up more about the tournament scene. You get to choose levels if you lose. Therefor, these levels are either automatic wins, or bogged down Fox versus Fox matches (not all the levels, just some of them like Yoshi 64).

And Chi: While its an annoyance with the stage, it wasn't really a broken or bannable tactic, so living to huge percentages actually had nothing to do with banning the stage many, many years ago.

Dylan brings up an excellent point: essentially, that the tournament players have to much experience with to many different opponents to lose to someone simply because they play with items. I'll bring up an example from myself.

I've been attending Smashboards tournaments since 2003-2004, so I have a ton of experience. My personal problem is that I don't really have a drive to become the best, so while I always do well, I never do great and will usually finish in the top half -top quarter at a tournament.

Last February though, I went to a non-smashboards tourney. There were 94 people there and it was held in a Library. I had gone with 3 of my other friends who were all somewhat new to the Smashboards scene (about 6 months). The first three rounds of the tournament were FFA, with only top 2 advancing. Worse, it was stock FFA. I chose Peach, ran away each match, each time someone challenged me (making it 1v1), I easily defeated them, so each person in each FFA learned that if they wanted that 2nd spot they would be best off just leaving me alone. My 3 other friends all made top 8, along with 2 of their friends who also playing somewhat competitively. Things finally switched over to 1v1 (with items still on), and I still ended up winning without ever breaking a sweat (link was the most used character at the tournament, I would have to say).

My simple point is, items, FFA, it didn't matter, I was superiour in all forms simply because I had gotten to such a level in my 1v1 game that any none of the random factors could overcome the other players skill deficits.