Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

RhedKing · Feb 24, 2009

60:40 our favor. You projectiles won't do much since debateably Jiggs is more dangerous with your items than you are, but I agree with air, spam them enough and you will make progress.
She has some crazy priority on you guys as well. This is probably the only fight peach wants to play on the ground, you don't challenge the queen of the skies on her own field. :laugh:

Peach has a few advantages as well though, like fair spacing and turnip spam.

Ban Japes.

CP green greens, where you can throw a nip at the bomb blocks and really hurt jiggs. In addition the stage isn't great for jiggs anyway.

Morrigan · Feb 24, 2009

I thought WoP went useless now in Brawl?

JigglyZelda003 · Feb 24, 2009

its not as effective as it used to be but it still works on most characters, not MK.

Airgemini · Feb 24, 2009

RhedKing said:
60:40 our favor.

Yeah right that's a little too high. Do you play any good Peaches?

RhedKing said:
You projectiles won't do much since debateably Jiggs is more dangerous with your items than you are

How so? Please explain. Peach has so many options with Turnips. Jigglypuff cant even Glide Toss!

Rickerdy-doo-da-day · Feb 24, 2009

I haven't fought anyone who is really good and capable with Jigglypuff yet but I'm going to throw out random points here anyway

- I've noticed that Peach's and Jigglypuffs aerials clash quite a bit. Apart from Pound, that has loltastic priority over...loads of things. It's pretty punishable mind and you can normally see it coming a fair way off

- Rollout gets outprioritized by Peach's Nair. Toading Rollout is a horrible idea. If Jigglpyuff uses Rollout on the ground, it's basically a free Dair

- F Tilt is pretty nice at stopping her aerial approaches, although I don't know what she could follow up with if she baits it

- She doesn't have a projectile...and I can't remember if she can glide toss or not

- You can't fall asleep when Floating

- Jigglypuff's Fair is a surprising killer

- Toad....meh dunno. I reckon she'd be good at baiting it

Again, I'd have to fight someone who knew how to use Jigglypuff but...is her air mobility really that good? I know it's close to Warios and his is beastly but Jigglypuff is pretty floaty...hmmm

Has anyone got any good vids of Peach vs Jigglypuff? I wouldn't mind watching some

Also, I'm away for the next half of this week, coming back Saturday/Sunday, depends. Behave yourselves

Airgemini · Feb 24, 2009

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
I can't remember if she can glide toss or not

Cant

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:
...is her air mobility really that good? I know it's close to Warios and his is beastly but Jigglypuff is pretty floaty...hmmm

Hers is actually better. She loses to Yoshi though

M-WUZ-H3R3 · Feb 24, 2009

RhedKing said:
60:40 our favor. You projectiles won't do much since debateably Jiggs is more dangerous with your items than you are, but I agree with air, spam them enough and you will make progress.
She has some crazy priority on you guys as well. This is probably the only fight peach wants to play on the ground, you don't challenge the queen of the skies on her own field.

Peach has a few advantages as well though, like fair spacing and turnip spam.

Ban Japes.

CP green greens, where you can throw a nip at the bomb blocks and really hurt jiggs. In addition the stage isn't great for jiggs anyway.

No. Personaly for me, that is wrong. 60:40 in their favor.

I just have a lot of trouble with peach. Hard to gimp off stage, quick aieral combos, great spacers. There is only two weaknesses:
POUND
GRAB
Abuse these moves. Abuse them I say.

Airgemini · Feb 24, 2009

Does Mr.Saturn have an advantage over Jigglypuff? Lol

But seriously, these could be deadly if they break their sheild.

JigglyZelda003 · Feb 24, 2009

well since Mrsaturn doesn't hurt that much damage or knockback wise i might just stay in the air till he gets tossed or bait to get hit by it alone.

Airgemini · Feb 24, 2009

True but he does have hitstun which can lead to combos. You can only stay in the air so long, and who says you have to throw it right away?

deepseadiva · Feb 24, 2009

RhedKing said:
60:40 our favor.

Lols. I'm sorry, but I'd disagree.

It's our favor 55-45, maybe 60-40ish.

I should be playing my local Jiggs today. Maybe I can get some uba recent videos up.

MrEh · Feb 24, 2009

Throwing theorycraft aside, PNDMike said that Niko_K spent a week at his place about a month ago.

Let's get them to share a few words. ^^

JigglyZelda003 · Feb 24, 2009

airgemini said:
True but he does have hitstun which can lead to combos. You can only stay in the air so long, and who says you have to throw it right away?

not anymore than i know it has on other characters. and i don't have to stay in the air the whole time i can walk around aimlessly untill you get rid of him, unless you have set damage advantage. i never said you had to just toss him away the moment you get him, this is one of those Zelda thought moments for me.

BentoBox · Feb 24, 2009

Okay, so I just played a very good Bowser (and I played Sliq a few months back) and I simply have to disagree on the 60:40 advantage. Aside from early % floating combo shenanigans, there is simply no aspect of the character that we utterly shut down with our own.

I found that the only effective way to fight a bowser is to camp with turnips. In close range, it might be hard to believe but he has the upper hand; Fortress. The move comes out on frame 1 and has invincibility frames from 1 to 5 and hits on f.6. He can hence punish effectively any failed approach. You d-aired his shield? Fortress. You whiffed a f-air? Fortress. You tried to follow up a jab atk with a grab? Fortress.

Then there's the fact that you simply do NOT want to be above him, ever. His side-B comes out in 17 frames while our f-air comes out in 16 and both moves have the exact same range. His f-air comes out on frames 8/10 and has as much range as our f-air too... He can thus effectively chase you down if he wanted to. U-tilt kills really well (around 120% with DI in FD), and because of Peach's floaty nature, she can get juggled really easily in the air and die surprisingly early from an u-air around 70%.

He also has so many ways to bait you into making mistakes and punish HARD. Say you're edgeguarding while staying away from the ledge as to not get koopacided, you call a jump and decide to intercept it with an u-tilt/u-smash, he can down B, hence delaying his fall and killing you at 100%. If he's jumping around spamming side-b cancels, I found that the only effective way to deal with it is to spotdodge or stay at a distance, but moving away gives him a terrain advantage so say you decide to opt for the first option. If he calls it right he can just land next to you and grab you, leading into grab release stuff. Point being that you're always on the defensive. He's more dangerous to you than you are to him.

You always want to recover low.

All that coupled with the fact that you're in killing range @ 100% when you'll have a hard time getting a stock off him at 150% makes me sincerely believe that Peach does not have the advantage. This is either 55:45 bowser's adv or 50:50 at best imo.

We should ask their community what they think about the matchup~

Cia · Feb 24, 2009

bento - can't peach float high enough to Dair him w/o fear of fortress??
------

also, i've been waiting to see people's thoughts on the puff match up for a while. Now. i personally think it's a 50:50. but i'll wait to see what everyone else thinks before explaining.

:colorful:

BentoBox · Feb 24, 2009

You can, but he can u-tilt you between your d-airs if you hit his shield and he has a significant advantage against anyone above him in the air. If you do land the d-air though, that's an easy 40~% early on. That is, if he doesn't DI.

RhedKing · Feb 24, 2009

airgemini said:
Yeah right that's a little too high. Do you play any good Peaches?

60:40 too high? Possibly, it depends on the flow of the match I've played a decent peach, but I don't play any good peaches. But I do know the premise of the character and jigglypuff has a fairly noticeable advantage against other air heavy characters (but not game and watch. Never game and watch.) As a veteran of the series, I've seen the tactics players employ, and the mindsets they have while playing. With that knowledge I'll put it quite simply. If peach and jiggs have an air battle, peach is going to lose. that's it. If peach and jiggs have a ground oriented battle, jigglypuff will lose. Unless the peach is a VERY atypical player, with a super defensive play style and sniper-like precision, she's not going to beat Jigglypuff's air game.
However she has a very strong advantage on the ground so this fight is based a lot on a tactical back and forth, keeping jiggs on the ground as much as possible, watching for openings, knowing move counters like the back of your hand, and taking advantage of spacing will ensure that peach will win. But the jiggs player doesn't have it that hard, so it's an uphill battle for peach. You've been taken out of your element, while your opponent feels right at home. If that's not advantage, I don't know what is.

As for the turnips, clearly you didn't read the second half of my post, I said (or tried to say) that giving jiggs a ranged weapon is better for her than it is for you, I never said you shouldn't drown her in a sea of vegetables, in fact I encourage it, it's a great tactic for this match.

60:40 it's uphill for peach.

If it's the gap your concerned with the lowest I would go is 55:45 jiggs favor.

The important thing is to recognize that Jiggs deffinately has an advantage in this match up.

PND · Feb 24, 2009

Waits for Niko. . .

I can admit, I don't have *much* Peach experience. I played Bento at ToS5 (Those were close matches. I noticed they seeded the only two people with dreadlocks against each other. Bias? lol) and as mentioned I've played Niko. (along with some no name Peaches)

Basically, I can see Jiggs advantage, but not by much. It's relatively easy to get into your range, turnips don't do much, and it can be hard to hit your kill moves. Since your Umbrella comes from hell, we can't really gimp you when you're close to the stage. . . and floating gives you a lot of options on getting to that range. Basically we will be using our fair to kill you instead of gimping, and it kills really early. Try and adapt to that. The floating versus flying makes for a really interesting match, but our aerial speed and mobility allows us to weave in with relative ease.

HOWEVER

If you pull a beam sword it outranges everything we do. Hold on to it. And Saturn breaks our shield.

Niko, what're your thoughts?

Sliq · Feb 24, 2009

Hey guys what's going on in this thread?

I hate fighting Peach with Bowser. I just go DK and brick wall that ***** with bairs.

Airgemini · Feb 24, 2009

PNDMike said:
If you pull a beam sword it outranges everything we do. Hold on to it. And Saturn breaks our shield.

Dont forget about Bombs

I wonder what percentage they kill her...

MrEh · Feb 24, 2009

Sliq said:
Hey guys what's going on in this thread?

I hate fighting Peach with Bowser. I just go DK and brick wall that ***** with bairs.

Jiggs discussion, but Bowser was brought up again for some reason. ^^

deepseadiva · Feb 24, 2009

BentoBox said:
We should ask their community what they think about the matchup~

Let's mark it yellow for a re-scuss later.

Cia · Feb 25, 2009

RhedKing said:
60:40 too high? Possibly, it depends on the flow of the match I've played a decent peach, but I don't play any good peaches. But I do know the premise of the character and jigglypuff has a fairly noticeable advantage against other air heavy characters (but not game and watch. Never game and watch.) As a veteran of the series, I've seen the tactics players employ, and the mindsets they have while playing. With that knowledge I'll put it quite simply. If peach and jiggs have an air battle, peach is going to lose. that's it. If peach and jiggs have a ground oriented battle, jigglypuff will lose. Unless the peach is a VERY atypical player, with a super defensive play style and sniper-like precision, she's not going to beat Jigglypuff's air game.
However she has a very strong advantage on the ground so this fight is based a lot on a tactical back and forth, keeping jiggs on the ground as much as possible, watching for openings, knowing move counters like the back of your hand, and taking advantage of spacing will ensure that peach will win. But the jiggs player doesn't have it that hard, so it's an uphill battle for peach. You've been taken out of your element, while your opponent feels right at home. If that's not advantage, I don't know what is.

As for the turnips, clearly you didn't read the second half of my post, I said (or tried to say) that giving jiggs a ranged weapon is better for her than it is for you, I never said you shouldn't drown her in a sea of vegetables, in fact I encourage it, it's a great tactic for this match.

60:40 it's uphill for peach.

If it's the gap your concerned with the lowest I would go is 55:45 jiggs favor.

The important thing is to recognize that Jiggs deffinately has an advantage in this match up.

THIS!! i'm glad that you posted because i really didn't feel like writing an essay about this match up. i wouldn't say it's in jigg's favor because defensive style peach user's will **** puff.

reason: in order to put on ANY damage, jigglypuff must use one of her physical, low range attacks. and with Jigglypuff being a primarily aerial character, Usmash out of sheild destroys Puff at the most embarrassing percentages.

jigg's air battle game makes turnip camping a bit difficult. (she will usually catch turnips w/o trying)

Basically, Peach just has to remain on the ground to win this matchup. Even Puff's spaced bairs are punishable w/ Dash attach out of shield.

50:50 match up. quite possibly 55-45 Peach's Favor. (P.S. i know the match up from both sides :colorful:

)

Praxis · Feb 25, 2009

I feel that Peach's ground game is very anti-air, and Peach's air game is very anti-ground. Her ability to autocancel aerials lets her approach grounded characters and get away, while the way her hitboxes reach high (ftilt, utilt, fsmash, usmash) helps stop aerial approaches.

This is why Peach dittos are so dumb- Peach's ftilt prevents her from approaching in any way xD

So it makes sense that Peach should remain grounded. I only fought a Jiggs once, and had all kinds of trouble because I kept trying to jump in the air.

MrEh · Feb 25, 2009

Remember that Pound beats the Ftilt though.

Then again, Pound rips through everything. XD

deepseadiva · Feb 25, 2009

Supa ultra fresh Peach - Jiggs video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa8TSlcHYSs
- lols at bomb being first pull

Stuff I missed doing?

Something my Jiggs wasn't doing that pro Jiggs do?

Was it just Battlefield?

Veril · Feb 25, 2009

MenoUnderwater said:
Supa ultra fresh Peach - Jiggs video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa8TSlcHYSs
- lols at bomb being first pull

Stuff I missed doing?

Something my Jiggs wasn't doing that pro Jiggs do?

Was it just Battlefield?

That Jiggs lacks in many areas. Most glaringly, the lack of grabs. Wavelanding into grabs is pretty important and I don't see any of that.

Not a good example at all.

You could have power-shielded that rest btw. For a d-air to combo into rest it has to trip.

JigglyZelda003 · Feb 25, 2009

yeah like Veril said alot was missing.

EdreesesPieces · Feb 25, 2009

I don't like to brag but I'm a genious for picking Rickerdy to oversee this thread. Amazing job you are doing here, much better than I did. A matchup thread is like a needy girlfriend (thats how I treated it) and I neglected her a lot, but you are treating her like a princess. Keep it up.

Once you hit the Captain Falcon matchup I have an essay I can post that outlines every single thing about the matchup, I know it inside and out.

Sky` · Feb 25, 2009

I'm sorry, But Maybe you guys aren't getting this message.

FALCO IS NOT 50-50.

Falco is not 50-50. You all are crazy for thinking this. Even on the most neutral of stages, (FD) The matchup is 40-60 at best. Fight a Campy Falco on FD, and tell me that's even.

deepseadiva · Feb 25, 2009

Was someone saying he was...?

We'll probably re-scuss him after MK or Snake.

Sky` · Feb 25, 2009

The Matchup thread was changed a while back to say he was 50-50/ =/

Meny it makes me crai.

MrEh · Feb 25, 2009

Sky` said:
Meny it makes me crai.

I cry when I see most Bowser ratios.

But for the sake of getting things done, I usually wait until all the matchups are completed before requesting changes. ^^

Morrigan · Feb 25, 2009

RhedKing said:
60:40 too high? Possibly, it depends on the flow of the match I've played a decent peach, but I don't play any good peaches. But I do know the premise of the character and jigglypuff has a fairly noticeable advantage against other air heavy characters (but not game and watch. Never game and watch.) As a veteran of the series, I've seen the tactics players employ, and the mindsets they have while playing. With that knowledge I'll put it quite simply. If peach and jiggs have an air battle, peach is going to lose. that's it. If peach and jiggs have a ground oriented battle, jigglypuff will lose. Unless the peach is a VERY atypical player, with a super defensive play style and sniper-like precision, she's not going to beat Jigglypuff's air game.
However she has a very strong advantage on the ground so this fight is based a lot on a tactical back and forth, keeping jiggs on the ground as much as possible, watching for openings, knowing move counters like the back of your hand, and taking advantage of spacing will ensure that peach will win. But the jiggs player doesn't have it that hard, so it's an uphill battle for peach. You've been taken out of your element, while your opponent feels right at home. If that's not advantage, I don't know what is.

You talk too much about Peach's air game, we have a decent ground game too you know. And like Vanz and Praxis already mentioned (quoted below), it's also an anti-air one. Not to mention we can perfom ground aerials, giving us an extra card under the table.

Praxis]I feel that Peach's ground game is very anti-air said:
i wouldn't say it's in jigg's favor because defensive style peach user's will **** puff.

reason: in order to put on ANY damage, jigglypuff must use one of her physical, low range attacks. and with Jigglypuff being a primarily aerial character, Usmash out of sheild destroys Puff at the most embarrassing percentages.

jigg's air battle game makes turnip camping a bit difficult. (she will usually catch turnips w/o trying)

Basically, Peach just has to remain on the ground to win this matchup. Even Puff's spaced bairs are punishable w/ Dash attach out of shield.

50:50 match up. quite possibly 55-45 Peach's Favor. (P.S. i know the match up from both sides )

MenoUnderwater said:
Was someone saying he was...?.

dpchlol

_Keno_ · Feb 25, 2009

Sky` said:
I'm sorry, But Maybe you guys aren't getting this message.

FALCO IS NOT 50-50.

Falco is not 50-50. You all are crazy for thinking this. Even on the most neutral of stages, (FD) The matchup is 40-60 at best. Fight a Campy Falco on FD, and tell me that's even.

I know what you mean, and completely agree. We should re discuss it after mk.

EdreesesPieces · Feb 25, 2009

I forgot to put in my input fro the Puff matchup.

Ground float back to forward smash spam (while holding a turnip) completely renders all of Jiggs approaches void. Just try it. If she goes too high, just throw the turnip up to create a good distraction. Seriously, abuse your F-smash in this matchup as much as you can.

Praxis · Feb 25, 2009

Sky` said:
I'm sorry, But Maybe you guys aren't getting this message.

FALCO IS NOT 50-50.

Falco is not 50-50. You all are crazy for thinking this. Even on the most neutral of stages, (FD) The matchup is 40-60 at best. Fight a Campy Falco on FD, and tell me that's even.

This is right.

Fighting a high level camping Falco is just...absurd for Peach. It's horrible, believe me :/ He completely controls your ability to approach and has an answer for everything you do, and you don't have the choice of defensive play.

DEHF absolutely demolished me on FD and even Battlefield. I only beat him on Brinstar where the terrain stopped his camping. It MIGHT be 50-50 there, but it certainly is not on neutrals.

Canvasofgrey · Feb 25, 2009

I agree with Edreese, though, I always try to get rid of the Frying pan since it has the shortest range. Jigglypuff has no real projectiles or long-range moves in which to use against Peach, so a good tennis racket or Gold club is just what you need to get the hollow creampuff flying.

Ftilt is the winner here, which retreating Fairs and Uairs a maybe.

I love Nair because sometimes it gets you out of WoP

Metatitan · Feb 25, 2009

IMO this matchup is 50:50 or 40:60 peach, u guys definitely outcamp us but remember ur camp game isnt as strong as others. imma be honest and say that more than anything peach's dair gives me trouble (**** that dair for being too good ><)

JigglyZelda003 · Feb 25, 2009

i once ran away from dark pchs Dair >.> it made me look silly too.

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