Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion - Forever Outdated :(

[MrEh]

So...50-50 then? ^^

 

[gantrain05]

i once ran away from dark pchs Dair >.> it made me look silly too.

i always run away from dark.pchs Dair, he's just too good lol, that reminds me i haven't played dark.pch in a while, i should fire up my wifi again =/

just a question tho, will peach's Bair beat out pound? or should i just stay away from that move alltogether?

 

[MrEh]

i always run away from dark.pchs Dair, he's just too good lol, that reminds me i haven't played dark.pch in a while, i should fire up my wifi again =/

just a question tho, will peach's Bair beat out pound? or should i just stay away from that move alltogether?

Pound beats everything that isn't heavily disjointed.

Pound is that good.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

Pound beats everything that isn't heavily disjointed.

Pound is that good.

From Melee though, Pound got worst, I think. The priority was dampened, and the knockback was severlly decreased, so will Pound outprioritizes Peach's aerial moves, At low percents, it can be countered attack by correctly DIing and Dair, me thinks.

Also, A good spaced fair beats Pound.

 

[MrEh]

Also, A good spaced fair beats Pound.

Yeah, that's why I said pound will beat anything that isn't disjointed. ^^

Peach's Fair is.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

even at low percents pound tends to have enough knockback on connection to avoid most retaliations. i've never been Daired after pounding before at low percents, though.

 

[MrEh]

I use pound to punish spot dodges and airdodges.

Pound is fun. ^^

 

[JigglyZelda003]

pound is too good. i Dtilt spotdodgers for lols sometimes

 

[MrEh]

pound is too good. i Dtilt spotdodgers for lols sometimes

Dtilt is actually good on Brinstar and Mansion.

Refresh your Fair. ^^

 

[hotgarbage]

Okay, so I just played a very good Bowser (and I played Sliq a few months back) and I simply have to disagree on the 60:40 advantage. Aside from early % floating combo shenanigans, there is simply no aspect of the character that we utterly shut down with our own.....

*rest clipped*

Late to the party on this one, but agreed; a good Bowser is freaking scary.

 

[Blad01]

Falco forums are discussing Peach's match-up : http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=223368.

Please contribute

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I don't like to brag but I'm a genious for picking Rickerdy to oversee this thread. Amazing job you are doing here, much better than I did. A matchup thread is like a needy girlfriend (thats how I treated it) and I neglected her a lot, but you are treating her like a princess. Keep it up.

Once you hit the Captain Falcon matchup I have an essay I can post that outlines every single thing about the matchup, I know it inside and out.

Aww thankyou Edreese ^^ I've got her in line though - I don't let her boss me around

Anyway keep up the discussion

Okay, so I just played a very good Bowser (and I played Sliq a few months back) and I simply have to disagree on the 60:40 advantage. Aside from early % floating combo shenanigans, there is simply no aspect of the character that we utterly shut down with our own.

Hmmm...I see

I found that the only effective way to fight a bowser is to camp with turnips. In close range, it might be hard to believe but he has the upper hand; Fortress. The move comes out on frame 1 and has invincibility frames from 1 to 5 and hits on f.6. He can hence punish effectively any failed approach. You d-aired his shield? Fortress. You whiffed a f-air? Fortress. You tried to follow up a jab atk with a grab? Fortress.

I've explained about Fortress that you can Dair above his head so that the Fortress can't touch you should he try to use it. Yikes, was the invinciblity frames on Fortress not mentioned in the Bowser discussion? I'll have to check that out
If you're Floating right though, you shouldn't be getting hit by the Fortress methinks

Then there's the fact that you simply do NOT want to be above him, ever. His side-B comes out in 17 frames while our f-air comes out in 16 and both moves have the exact same range. His f-air comes out on frames 8/10 and has as much range as our f-air too... He can thus effectively chase you down if he wanted to. U-tilt kills really well (around 120% with DI in FD), and because of Peach's floaty nature, she can get juggled really easily in the air and die surprisingly early from an u-air around 70%.

You can see his Uair coming a mile off. If you're worried about it hitting you, use Toad. Bowser can't really follow up with anything because he's high up. His Side B is annoying but there's a lot you can do to avoid it. Bowser jumps in for the Side B? Jump out the way/airdodge past him and hit him with a Fair or Turnip. You can also knock him out of it with a spaced F Tilt/ bait the Side B and follow up with something

He also has so many ways to bait you into making mistakes and punish HARD. Say you're edgeguarding while staying away from the ledge as to not get koopacided, you call a jump and decide to intercept it with an u-tilt/u-smash, he can down B, hence delaying his fall and killing you at 100%. If he's jumping around spamming side-b cancels, I found that the only effective way to deal with it is to spotdodge or stay at a distance, but moving away gives him a terrain advantage so say you decide to opt for the first option. If he calls it right he can just land next to you and grab you, leading into grab release stuff. Point being that you're always on the defensive. He's more dangerous to you than you are to him.

If he's spamming Side B, F Tilt, Fair or a Turnip would easily take care of that. My favourite trick with Side B spamming Bowsers is to pull up a Turnip, run at them, airdodge straight past them to avoid the Side B and then Glide Toss the Turnip backwards

Edgeguarding Bowser can be tricky. Your best bet is to carry a Turnip in hand, keep your distance and pressure him. Bowser is limited to a certain extent as to what he can do off stage because he sinks like a brick and attacking off stage or making a mistake could easily cost him a stock

You always want to recover low.

All that coupled with the fact that you're in killing range @ 100% when you'll have a hard time getting a stock off him at 150% makes me sincerely believe that Peach does not have the advantage. This is either 55:45 bowser's adv or 50:50 at best imo.

We should ask their community what they think about the matchup~

I'd be willing to re discuss it at some point but I've got other characters that I think need to be re discussed first

You have to be very patient when fighting Bowser due to his good range and power. Spacing well and turnips are key and your best bet of winning these matches are to be patient and keep a Turnip in hand to cover yourself. Peach can do a lot to stop Bowser's approaches since he's somewhat sluggish and slow

I'd be interested to hear what Sliq has to say about this match up. If there is a strong feeling that the numbers are wrong, I'll change them but not until we are all agreed on the match up

 

[Sliq]

Peach is annoying, and I'd rather just go DK and completely shut down Peach with bairs.

 

[Praxis]

Peach is annoying, and I'd rather just go DK and completely shut down Peach with bairs.

It's not THAT bad. CBK tried that on me, we went pretty evenish.

 

[_clinton]

Everyone knows Ness' fair is where it is at when it comes to shutting down things

 

[MrEh]

Bowser jumps in for the Side B? Jump out the way/airdodge past him and hit him with a Fair or Turnip. You can also knock him out of it with a spaced F Tilt/ bait the Side B and follow up with something

Klaw has nearly no landing lag, so if it's air dodged, Bowser can follow up with almost anything right after. A shield, another jump, tilts, etc.

If you're Floating right though, you shouldn't be getting hit by the Fortress methinks

This is true. That's why we have our Utilt OoS.

because he sinks like a brick

Nah, Link is the one that sinks like a brick. ^^

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Klaw has nearly no landing lag, so if it's air dodged, Bowser can follow up with almost anything right after. A shield, another jump, tilts, etc.



This is true. That's why we have our Utilt OoS.



Nah, Link is the one that sinks like a brick. ^^

Meh, the airdodge thing is something I occasionally do to mix things up. It's not something I reccomend doing all the time at all

Bowser is still pretty heavy and his Up + B isn't the best recovery in the world

OoS Up Tilt...hmm. I'm not sure if Peach used a Nair after her Dair that would get in before the Up Tilt. But if you do that, then you're open to an OoS Fortress as well

It's difficult really. My style of fighting Bowser is to keep him at bay with Turnips and use them to cover myself as well. I rarely charge in blindly with obvious Floating Dairs against Bowser because there's a lot he can do to counter that sort of thing. I normally keep the pressure on with Turnips and get Dairs in when I can. Staying in the air for short bursts of time and keeping your distance/playing defensivly works pretty well for me. Unfortunetly...I don't know best (far from it) and there wasn't a huge amount of contribution on Bowser that I could look at
From my experiences, I see it as around 60/40 or 55/45 in Peach's favour but like I said, I really don't know best



Back onto Jigglypuff...I've done some testing with Pound because it has such bizzare priority. I've found that when it's used on the ground, it will clank with Peach's Jab, F Tilt and F Smash. In the air, it trades hits with F Smash when both of them properly connect. Very odd indeed

You don't really want to be in the air too much vs Jigglypuff because that's where she excels. She's much more flexible in the air as well. Pound is something you really want to watch out for due to is wtfbbqhax priority. Expect a lot of these


Also:

The Matchup thread was changed a while back to say he was 50-50/ =/

Meny it makes me crai.

I haven't changed anything on the match up thread that Edrees originally made except from adding pictures and quotes

The Falco Match up has always been 50-50 on this thread. I haven't touched it because I don't know Falco very well at all. He's highlighted in yellow which means he's up for rediscussion and he's one of the top ones on my list as well. You'll notice the ones in yellow such as ROB and Snake don't have quotes like they originally were when I recieved this thread. I'll be using information from the rediscussion threads


There's been much debate on the Falco match up and I'm still considering whether I should or should not do the rediscussion whilst Dark.Pch and Niko K are still banned


If ANYONE has any queries about match ups and their numbers, please tell me!

Also, I still need PT and all of his numbers as well!

 

[Praxis]

I really think we should do Falco. It works especially since the Falco boards are doing us right now. And it is NOT 50-50 lol.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I really think we should do Falco. It works especially since the Falco boards are doing us right now. And it is NOT 50-50 lol.

I'm going to be doing Falco soon but...I was thinking of waiting until both Dark and Niko were unbanned since they're both Peach's with tournament experience

However....due to the fiasco and carry on recently and due to the fact that neither of them contributed to the other rediscussion thread, I might go on and do them regardless of whether they are banned or not

Is there anyone else besides MK, Snake, Falco, Marth, ROB, G&W and Wario that people think should be rediscussed?

Also, Dekuu - I've added your Match Up chart to the OP. I hope you don't mind because it looks great!

 

[Morrigan]

I don't mind, but you'll notice that some numbers in this thread do not correspond with the color of the matchup. Basically, the chart shows approximately how the match-ups will be set after the re-discussion (for eample, having the advantage over ROB, Falco's advantage, etc.)

 

[SPYMOFT]

are we talking about jiggly cuz i have some input. >_>

Rollout:
My cousin abuses jiggly's rollout which has actually caught me off guard a lot of the times. If it hits you at least 2 times, your shield is pretty much eaten which can lead to the third hit actually hitting through your shield (or even breaking your shield). I've noticed that even with side stepping a rollout, you can get hit very easily if they turn around quickly. Rollout is something that jiggly is prone at and hitting peach with that kind of move leads to KO's at early percentages. Getting hit from a rollout on the ground leads to a horizontal kill, while getting hit from it from the air leads to a vertical(star) KO.


Wall Of Pain:
Another thing is the wall of pain. Yea it has been nerfed in brawl, but its still effective, and if peach has no float, this can lead to an easy kill for jiggly.


Jiggly's Smashes:
Some also don't expect jiggly's smashes to be so strong, but due to their slow start up and after-lag, this is easily dodged and punished, but do beware, one forward smash can send peach flying at percentages as low as 50.


Jiggly's Recovery
Another thing to be aware of is jiggly's recovery, if jiggly hits you with a rollout while off the stage, jiggly will fall without being able to do anything and will fall to its death (you can use this to your advantage if you have more then one stock but not if your stocks are equal because getting hit with a rollout will usually lead to a Star-Screen KO, with you dying earlier then jiggly).
Jiggly can be very easily gimped if it runs out of jumps. It has great horizontal and vertical recovery but this all relies on its amounts of jumps left. Using a few nairs and turnips would really hamper its recovery.


- Hope that helped a bit.

 

[Airgemini]

if jiggly hits you with a rollout while off the stage, jiggly will fall without being able to do anything and will fall to its death

Actually if this happens, Jigglypuff can DI back to the stage while she's still in her free fall animation.

Jiggly can be very easily gimped if it runs out of jumps.

Depends on her position. If she's high up then no, she can pretty much recover anywhere with DI and Pound alone. Also Pound has insane priority so dont attack blindly.

 

[SPYMOFT]

Actually if this happens, Jigglypuff can DI back to the stage while she's still in her free fall animation.


Depends on her position. If she's high up then no, she can pretty much recover anywhere with DI and Pound alone. Also Pound has insane priority so dont attack blindly.

True, those two are just situational, but it depends on where jiggly is at. When my cousin tried using rollout to approach the stage at a low angle and didnt sweet spot the stage, he hit into me, bounced off, and fell to his death.

 

[Villi]

Rollout should never hit Peach's shield more than once, and only once if she just didn't see it coming. She can punish the grounded version easily by jumping out of shield and floating a dair.

 

[Canvasofgrey]

I agree with Villi. Rollout should never have the option to hit twice since Peach can easily punish Jigglypuffs turn around by a shorthop, float, Dair.

 

[Myst007_teh_newb]

Jiggs can pound out of turnip spam, making it a bit less effective. A good Jiggs will space the hell out of those pounds, too. It also eats away at shields, but you should be able to grab her out of it or even jump out of shield > nair if the Jigglypuff is careless. I suppose you could even toad the pounds if she's trying to put pound pressure on Peach. Spores would definitely outrange her pound, no matter how well it's been spaced. Expect a lot of pound in a match against Jiggs, since it has such good priority and it can be angled to avoid all sorts of nasty things.

Also, dair >dair > uair combos don't work due to Jiggs' floatiness, but you all already knew that.

 

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

Wow we'er almost finished XD

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I'll be changing the match up tomorrow. Have we come to an agreement on the Jigglypuff match up yet? And who does everyone want to do next?

P.S Edrees, what were all the PT + PT as a whole match up numbers? D:

 

[slikvik]

lol jigglypuff is not a real char

 

[Cia]

lol jigglypuff is not a real char

MM your peach vs my puff $5.00



melee + brawl

 

[slikvik]

k vanz. this is not melee where i would have said no

 

[Cia]

why not both??



lolz, i'm such a predator.

 

[Morrigan]

vanz you're making me blind

55:45 Peach

 

[MrEh]

lol jigglypuff is not a real char

Are you sure you're not confusing Jiggs with someone else?

Maybe...CHARIZARD?!?!

 

[deepseadiva]

I'll be changing the match up tomorrow. Have we come to an agreement on the Jigglypuff match up yet? And who does everyone want to do next?

54:45 Peach seems to be the consensus.

How about we finally do Yoshi?

Aren't they discussing us? Plus we're covering his eggs in the move thread.

 

[Cia]

LOL.. i do abuse that smiley..

i'll go back to pidgeotto <3

btw, charizard blows

 

[Airgemini]

I'm willing to say it could be even..
Either 55/45 or 50/50 :/

Yoshi sounds fun ^^

 

[JigglyZelda003]

55:45 or 50:50 sounds good to me. and im all for Yoshi since Fox is discussing him too

 

[MrEh]

50:50 for me. Jiggs and Peach is hilarious.

As for Yoshi, I'm thinking slight Peach advantage.

 

[_clinton]

Yoshi is a ****ing demon...

Oh and Pidgeot is win ^_^