A Brawl Patch: list the changes you want made

So we've gotten Brawl 1.00, and a lot of you are very dissatisfied with specific portions of the game. This topic is where you list what changes you would make to the game in order to make it more effectively balanced. Anyone who's played Starcraft, Diablo, etc. knows the drill. List your changes here for a patched game.

Each character will have their own individual section.

I will update the OP if you guys add good/universally agreed on changes. I'm leaving many characters empty if I am not familiar with them. It's up to you guys to make some good changes.

Remember, this is a rough draft. If you see something on your character that outrages you, explain why I'm wrong and I will change it. Everything in this topic is subject to change.

Brawl Patch 1.01

General Changes
-Increase hitstun by at least 0.2 seconds (This change would probably balance the characters out most)
-Increase invincibility frames for rolling (I don't know about you guys, but when I roll I feel so vulnerable. This one I'm not too sure about though.)
-transformation time between zelda/sheik reduced.
-get rid of the grab infinites on ness/lucas
-enable the option to turn off Tripping of Death




Character Changes

Bowser (I actually think he's pretty well balanced this time around)


Captain Falcon
-increase priority for Falcon Kick
-extend down-air's hitbox
-increase the interval of time that you can activate the sweetspot of the Knee of Justice by 0.2 seconds
-increase grab range slightly


Diddy Kong (fairly well balanced. I get the feeling he'll be considered broken in the future)



Donkey Kong (fairly well balanced)


Falco
-chainthrow either eliminated or reduced to 20%.


Fox (pretty well balanced)


Game & Watch
-Down smash ko's 15% later
-up+b creates a stun effect similar to peach's umbrella


Ganondorf
-increase run speed slightly
-give second jump back after performing down+b in the air
-up-tilt hitbox changed to be much bigger, about 4/5ths the size of PK Cross
-up-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.5 seconds


Ice Climbers


Ike
-counter comes out 0.1 second faster
-ftilt's startup lag decreased by 0.1 second


Jigglypuff (the hitstun change I suggest earlier is probably all she needs)
-down+b kills 10% earlier


King Dedede (I don't know about the chainthrows, you guys can tell me what you think)
-Decrease back throw damage to 10%
-obviously, get rid of the standing infinite grab




Kirby (very well balanced character)
-down+b startup lag decreased by 0.15 seconds


Link
-up+b ko's 30% earlier
-up+b recovery height increased
-z-air recovery length increased
-ftilt startup lag decreased by 0.15 seconds


Lucario (very well balanced character)


Lucas (very well balanced character)


Luigi
-Nair kills at least 15% later.
-fire uppercut kills at least 12% later
-dair spikes at any area of the hitbox
-vertical height for his down+b recovery reduced by 30%


Mario (well balanced)


Marth (I think pretty well balanced, others may disagree.)


Meta Knight (oh boy)
-Mach Tornado landing lag increased by 0.2 seconds
-Number of jumps reduced to 4
-d-smash ending lag increased by 0.3 seconds
-up+b given decreased superarmor frames


Ness
-lag from pk fire reduced by 0.15 seconds
-d-air startup lag reduced by 0.1 seconds
-down-smash kills 25% earlier
-up-smash gives spiking properties if you hang it off the edge (I hear it already has this but I can't ever seem to make it work)


Olimar (well balanced)



Peach (well balanced)



Pikachu (well balanced)



Pit
-side+b loses it's reflecting properties but slightly increased damage
-arrow damage decreased by 1%


Pokémon Trainer
-Rock Smash damage nerfed by at least 10% (I got 45% in one hit the other day. WTF)
-Ivysaur weight increased.
-lag from Ivysaur's d-air decreased by 0.15 seconds
-knockback from Ivysaur's dsmash increased
-Ivysaur's tether recovery given increased range
-Razor leaf's (side+b) damage increased by 1%
-Pokemon switch (down+b) reduced by 0.4 seconds


R.O.B.
-laser damage decreased by 1%
-gyro knockback slightly decreased (unsure of this one)
-hitbox for b-air decreased slightly
-d-smash damage decreased by 2%
-f-smash damage increased by 2%
-f-smash given slightly increased hitbox and knockback


Samus
-down+b bomb explodes on proximity
-down+b damage increased by 3%
-d-smash given increased knockback
-knockback for neutral B (charged shot) increased


Sheik (fairly well balanced)


Snake (oh boy)
-u-tilt kills at least 20% later
-f-tilt damage decreased to 7% for the first hit, 8% for the second
-hitboxes for u-tilt and f-tilt greatly decreased


Sonic
-knockback for downsmash increased
-damage for f-air increased by 2%
-damage for up-smash increased by 2%



Toon Link (fairly well balanced)


Wario (fairly well balanced)
-d-smash time decreased by 0.4 seconds
-change grab break animation so he doesn't fall right into a free attack



Wolf
-d-smash has 0.2 seconds of lag added in between both hits



Yoshi (I don't play Yoshi, I'll leave it to you guys to decide the changes)



Zelda
-increase startup lag for u-smash by 0.10 seconds
-Din's Fire hitbox slightly reduced
-f-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.15 seconds
-u-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.15 seconds
-decrease startup lag for up+b teleport by 0.25 seconds



Zero Suit Samus
-neutral b changed so that she can keep a charged up shot and fire it later
-weight slightly increased
-throw lag reduced by 0.7 seconds

Theres no point in this. Come on. Honestly, just accept the game.

SwastikaPyle said:

Pit
-side+b loses it's reflecting properties but slightly increased damage
-arrow damage decreased by 1%

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Why should Pit's Angel Ring be rid of its reflective properties? Why should Palutena's Arrows be decreased in damage? I find it silly that you would call this a "patch," yet get rid of things. It's already bad enough that Pit doesn't have that much KO potential in his Basic Techniques.

Dryn said:

Why should Pit's Angel Ring be rid of its reflective properties? Why should Palutena's Arrows be decreased in damage? I find it silly that you would call this a "patch," yet get rid of things. It's already bad enough that Pit doesn't have that much KO potential in his Basic Techniques.

Click to expand...

Do you know what a patch is?





And if you're going to complain about the topic at hand, save it for a different thread. We all know the game isn't going to be 're-released' or anything. We all still LIKE the game. However, you can still dislike certain aspects of a game whilst enjoying the rest.

For example, I hate the autosnipers in Counter Strike, yet I still play the game because it's tons of fun.

sasukebowser said:

Theres no point in this. Come on. Honestly, just accept the game.

Click to expand...

There's no point in a lot of thing we discuss around here. I think this would be interesting to discuss.

sasukebowser said:

Theres no point in this. Come on. Honestly, just accept the game.

Click to expand...

There are 3 versions of Melee (1.0, 1.1, and 1.2). I would still normally agree with you since this game has wifi and different versions would probably make them incompatible. However, there's a chance that people might figure out a way to tweak things via homebrew channel. Not that playing this game in conjunction to homebrew would become the norm...

Regardless, my 2 cents:

Samus' fsmash should have a larger hitbox (at least so it hits with the arm cannon touching, if not a little past it like it was in melee)

Samus' bair should have a longer lasting hitbox.

This is a very interesting idea and it might be more applicable than you guys think

The thing that I DON'T like about this thread, is how the OP decided to start with a list of his own (quite flawed) assumptions of what should be changed. Wipe the thing clean, start blank, and only include things in the OP that are agreed upon.

The only problem with this whole idea is that it's going to turn into a flamewar ****fest in 3 pages

umm btw ike's dtilt does spike... lol

I this is pretty good so far but you nerfed Luigi and Zelda too hard IMO and patches never work well for fighting games but i still think this is an interesting thread.

Scala said:

This is a very interesting idea and it might be more applicable than you guys think

The thing that I DON'T like about this thread, is how the OP decided to start with a list of his own (quite flawed) assumptions of what should be changed. Wipe the thing clean, start blank, and only include things in the OP that are agreed upon.

The only problem with this whole idea is that it's going to turn into a flamewar ****fest in 3 pages

Click to expand...

Like I said, list the things you find wrong and give reasons as to why they are ********. I am completely open to change here.

Also, Luigi and Zelda receive buffs as well as nerfs. I don't want to individually discuss everything you find on the list, but if you disagree with it, list your reasons why.

I changed the Ike d-tilt error.

Yeah, I find this thread interesting. I dont see why you would nerf luigi though at all, all of his moves are fine. He defintley doesnt need a nerf.

Anyway to add on to what you have

MK-
Nerf Tornado's Priority

Dedede-
Down throw does 2% less damage

Lucas/ Ness
Change whatever allows them to be infinited by marth lol.

Wario -
Fix his jump break so he doesnt get pwned because of it.

Shiek- Make fair a better KO move

If you increase hitstun, you will make MK unbelieveably broken.

So if you want hitstun to increase, it has to be distributed differently to each character to prevent further imbalances (ie CF gets more hitstun, MK gets none).

I think the first thing though that has to be changed is removing the phantom hitboxes on Snake's tilts so they only are where they actually hit.

cutter said:

If you increase hitstun, you will make MK unbelieveably broken.

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Just about to say that.
Every move has different Hitstun. adjust it accordingly.

Fix the grab release BS, and have combos be possible.
I generally agree with most of the OP.

couldn't a patch feasibly be released over WiFi?

Also, reduce the hitboxes on snake's many explosives.

laird said:

couldn't a patch feasibly be released over WiFi?

Also, reduce the hitboxes on snake's many explosives.

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No .

Ike- No stun after Quick Draw. Quick Draw does not activate on dodge frames. Reduce lag of Quick Draws's attack. Super Armor on Aether lasts until he grabs the sword.

That should solve his absurdly bad recovery.

Increased hitstun? Hello deliciously easy stun combo's with ZSS!

Not sure if I entirely agree with this or not, but for the sake of discussion, I've got a few suggestions. First, while Lucario is indeed a well balanced character, his grab range bites. Maybe give him just a little more? Also, while I'm not a MK player, I've saw many things beat his tornado. Is it honestly THAT broken of a move? I'll agree with increasing hitstun on an individual basis as well. I've only recently started looking at ROB, but spotdodge to dsmash seems over powered, especially on a character with such a god like recovery.

That's my bag of change, take it or leave it.

EDIT: Just remembered how bad they made Jigg's Rest. Methinks a power boost and getting rid of that awful flower thing is an order. ^_^

Why couldn't a patch be released via WiFi? Like, in order to log onto Nintendo WiFi you have to download the latest update (like any online game that gets patched).

I would assume the patch would then be saved in your Wii. There could even be an option to switch between versions in the game options.

I'm not saying I think it's possible, I'm just asking, why couldn't it be done that way? Because that's my understanding of how most games are patched (for the computer anyway, I don't have any knowledge of console games being patched).

Regardless of whether it's possible or not, I'm 99% sure Nintendo would never release an official patch (because they are stupid and don't realize the potential of providing ongoing support for a hugely popular game like Brawl I guess).

get rid of the stupid edge hog on tethers, make it so their up b's attack and grab after hitting, so those three suddenly become viable

get rid of trainer's fatigue so someone could attempt to main one of them, we would see a ton of squirtles and charizards, not to mention ivy if the tether thing got fixed

Get rid of grab nonsense on wario.

Nerfing Charizard's Rock Smash? Hell no. It's even difficult to get the 45 % all of the time, and with all of the crap everyone gets away with, you want to NERF Charizard? That's insanity. The Pokemon's lighter than Snake for God's sake, don't take away 10 % from one of his greatest tools!

80% of those ideas are rubbish.

Decrease the hitbox of snakes bair. It's so ridicolously oversized and long lasting...

ATLEAST give samus the ability to shoot in the 8 directions she could 15 years ago...

Funny because I was talking with a friend about ways Ike can improve...so this might be a good place to share.

One idea we had was to give Quick Draw a "phase through" property if you pressed a button(like R[Shield] for example).

Basically, you can cancel the attack portion of QD when you wish and you can pass right by an opponent. This would provide much more depth to the move and would increase his options in general...as well as provide some interesting results.

/randomidea

tha_carter said:

ATLEAST give samus the ability to shoot in the 8 directions she could 15 years ago...

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How about the 360 by 360 degree sphere she could shoot in the Prime games?

sasukebowser said:

Theres no point in this. Come on. Honestly, just accept the game.

Click to expand...

This is for fun only.


Oh yeah

*Enable the option to turn off Tripping of Death.

Hmm... this sounds familiar... like... the Gecko Project.

I swear that adding hitstun to this game will make many, many more characters broken, because the characters are designed with the hitstun that the game has, not the hitstun the game would get with a patch. And many of the given ideas... well, I'll just say that I disagree with a lot of them.

Only truly necessary patch is one that sets tripping to 0%. That is all, and I think that will make Brawl much better all by itself.

Take out tripping.

/end topic

; )

Samwise I Am said:

Take out tripping.

/end topic

; )

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Actually, many developers are inspired by tripping, and are going to put real life hassles into video games, obviously tripping, but also coughing, sneezing, itchy butts, getting stuff in your eyes and stubbing your toes.
Tripping has revolutionized gaming, soon you will have to itch your character, wipe his nose, give him cough drops, and obviously help him up from tripping.

ikes forward smash to be faster

SwastikaPyle said:

Brawl Patch 1.01

General Changes
- Try to make the game Melee 2.0 instead of just playing Melee

Character Changes
- Nerf everything good a character has so that every attack is just like every other one, but with a different animation

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What a good thread.

Give Samus the ability to charge her beam while she's running. Why this wasn't in in the first place is beyond me.

Johnthegalactic said:

Actually, many developers are inspired by tripping, and are going to put real life hassles into video games, obviously tripping, but also coughing, sneezing, itchy butts, getting stuff in your eyes and stubbing your toes.
Tripping has revolutionized gaming, soon you will have to itch your character, wipe his nose, give him cough drops, and obviously help him up from tripping.

Click to expand...

LMAO!

Anyone remember MGS? Play on hard or extreme, stay outside in the cold (MGS1) or the rain (MGS2) too long and you start sneezing. Worse thing ever, but that made that game great. Brawl's tripping... not so much.

However, if you were to make a game with tripping, coughing, sneezing, itchy butts, stuff getting into your eyes, hi winds making it hard to breathe, stubbing your toe, etc., that would be awesome... if used in the proper contexts.

Brawl is not one of those proper contexts. Take tripping out.

Link
-up+b ko's 30% earlier
-up+b recovery height increased
-z-air recovery length increased
-ftilt startup lag decreased by 0.15 seconds

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Up+b needs to be able to move around instead of just one direction.

Oh, and take out tripping, and give me my L-Cancel.

just some extra changes: for wifi :add lag compensation or direct connections btwn wiis w/o going through nintendo's servers, real time chat w/ usb keyboard compatibility, frames per second counter,
in general: better stage builder, more customization options, take out tripping except moves that cause it,
make the knockback angle accurate, fix the lip on FD.
char specific: samus gets crawl,

Um..complaints thread on General Brawl Discussion?
Who cares what changes people want, they're not going to happen. Nintendo are lazy, and the wii has PATHETIC internal storage space, so it will never, ever happen.
If it ever does I will jab forks into my eyes, that's how sure I am.

put thew forbidden seven in the game