A Brawl Patch: list the changes you want made

[EvonJ]

I like the idea, but I don't think it would happen. This is because while there are many things we see wrong with the game from a competitive standpoint, most of those things don't affect the casual gamer which is the majority of players.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

REMOVE TRIPPING. "fix" Snake. Buff CF,Link,Ganon,and Sonic.

 

[Al_Di_Medola]

hmmm...

Mario-

Fludd should reach farther.

Luigi-

aireals should have slightly less priority

G&W-

all moves should do less %/ have less knockback/ and less priority

Snake-

Ftilt should do 15-17% instead of 21 fresh
U tilt should have WAY less range, and a little less knockback

wario-

Dsmash should have weak hitboxes at the end of the animation
grab release should be fixed.

Ness/Lucas-

grab release should be fixed.

everything else is fine by me

 

[Jokes_On_You]

Remove tripping, anyone?

 

[Union of Darkness]

I think this would be interesting to discuss.

You know what? I take it back. This is a lousy idea.

 

[Crystanium]

Do you know what a patch is?

No, I don't think I do. Is there any reason why Pit's Angel Ring should lose its reflective properties, and why Palutena's Arrows should be decreased in damage? Surely you've considered what I said about Pit lacking in KO potential.

 

[Johnthegalactic]

put thew forbidden seven in the game

This is the best suggestion seen in the game, Plusle + Minun ftw!

 

[ArcPoint]

Haha, but yeah, this thread is a little pointless... or at least this should go into the Brawl section, this is in no way a "tactical discussion"

 

[Vctrx]

um hello? no one has thought of edgeguarding grapple characters? Surely there is someway to fix that one. ZSS has 2 AND infinite air up b, so at least she's better off than olimar and ivysaur.

 

[iao]

wait, you want to eliminate falco's chaingrab, but D3's is fine?

Seriously?

 

[AlexX]

Make Ike's flame attacks blue. He's called "The Hero of Blue Flames" for a reason.

 

[Sonic527]

- More stages
- More songs (or let us put in our own)
- More characters
- Options to remove tripping

 

[iao]

at above post, WOW.

 

[PhillipthaGoober]

no tripping and make CF's knee easier to sweetspot.

 

[The_Dark_Zero]

Accept the game. Ruin Meta Knight and I will find you and KILL you. ****ing melee whiners.

 

[Samuelson]

I think they should add random heroin addiction to this game. Sometimes you'll want to use one of your mains but you can't because he/she has over dosed on heroin. I think this would be an awesome addition to the game.

 

[AlexOFranco]

No Tripping
Give Warlock Paunch a bigger hit box.
Add HitStun to Captain Falcon.
Remove Lock-Ness
Add your own songs
Improve the Brawl stages.
Buff Sonic but Water down Super-Sonic.
Make Edge guarding ivysaur harder.
Water down Falco chaingrab
Give Ganon back his down B second jump technique.
Water down Wolf`s forward smash or something slightly so that they can improve his up B recovery.

 

[Uffe]

The only thing I'd really like to see is Marth and Charizard's death grab gone. I think it's quite obvious why I'd point that out though I never came across a Marth or Charizard who attempted that.

Ganondorf having more knock back with his Up + B grab like in Melee.

Falcon's Knee.

Less PK lag for Ness and Lucas. (PK Fire, PK Thunder, PK Jibaku, PK Flash.)

Ness' baseball bat like it was in Melee. (Seriously they gave that to Lucas! )

 

[SummerObsession]

No Tripping
More lag stun from attacks according to character
Less Floaty
Make it less campy, by buffing approach and nerfing sidestep, perfect shields(too easy), and limit airdodging to 2-3 times per jump.
Snake's Dair and neutral air both seriously need to do less than 30 damage when all hits connect.
All of Snakes move kill at higher percentage.
Snake's Ftilt has less hitbox, is slower, and does less damage but has same.
Snake has Faster Fsmash. That'd be fun.
Uptilt kills at higher percent, and hit's realistically I.E less hitbox in front of him.
MetaKnight more lag on his attacks, and less Dtilt range. And make him gimpable.
G&W more lag on his smashes, so he can't just spam them.
G&W less range and number of hits on turtle.
Make tether recoverys actually useful
Make Marth heavier, he's a grown man for god's sake yet he is lighter than the Ice Climber, Pit, Lucas, Diddy Kong, Peach, Toon Link, Ness. Which means he's lighter than a woman, 5 small kids, a teenage kid who can fly, and a monkey.
Make Marth's smashes not suck when not tippered. His smashes are pathetic when it dosen't tip.
Improve Marth's counter damage, the reward is great enough for the risk taken.
Make Cf have more priority and speed.
Make ganondorf stronger. His neutral B should kill at 0%. He's that bad right now.
Remove ALL CG besides IC.
Make fox and Jiggly puff heavier,
Fox shine should actually be good for gimping.
Jigglypuff should have more priority in her attacks.
Remove fludd, and give mario something useful.
Mario needs more range in Fsmash, and a faster dash attack
Sonic needs more priority.
There's a bunch of bad character that need buffs, can't list them all though.

I've typed too much even though I have much more on my mind.

 

[Uffe]

Make Marth heavier, he's a grown man for god's sake yet he is lighter than the Ice Climber, Pit, Lucas, Diddy Kong, Peach, Toon Link, Ness. Which means he's lighter than a woman, 5 small kids, a teenage kid who can fly, and a monkey.

Is it wrong that I lol'd?

 

[Turbo Ether]

If they patched Brawl, they would remove DACUS. Their first priority would be bug fixes.

 

[Jokes_On_You]

I really don't think a patch should change characters. If you nerf someone or make another character stronger, you're going to make some people upset. If you just fix some tiny glitches, throw in some extra content, boom, everyones happy.

 

[uremog]

General Changes
-Increase hitstun by at least 0.3 seconds (This change would probably balance the characters out most)
-Increase invincibility frames for rolling (I don't know about you guys, but when I roll I feel so vulnerable. This one I'm not too sure about though.)

these are the silliest things ever. rolls are already pretty good as long as you're not rolling around the field like a tard and a universal hitstun +0.3 secs? everyone would have infinites. it would make brawl very balanced though. everyone would play MK and the first person to score a hit of any kind would win the stock.

 

[kupo15]

I think Pit is actually quite balanced. I dont understand why ppl dislike him having two reflectors. So you get rid of the Angel Ring reflector, Ill just use my Mirror shield. Ppl make it sound as if it is so broken when its not. Take away one, I will still own you with the other. Its nice to have but its not going to make Pit any better or any worse a character.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

wait, you want to eliminate falco's chaingrab, but D3's is fine?

Seriously?

Falco's chaingrab can end in an instant spike eliminates the character's chance of winning the match if he's grabbed at 0 percent.

As for D3, like I said, I'm not sure about the chaingrabs. They do relatively small amounts of damage, compared to say ICs.

No, I don't think I do. Is there any reason why Pit's Angel Ring should lose its reflective properties, and why Palutena's Arrows should be decreased in damage? Surely you've considered what I said about Pit lacking in KO potential.

Pit already has a reflector. He doesn't need a second one. From what I have seen, Pit has fine KO potential as well as some gimping ability. I wanted Angel Ring buffed as well as nerfed. Palutena's Arrows are ridiculously fast as well as maneuverable. As many people have stated, you 'press B for damage' with Pit.

Also for those of you calling me a Melee whiner, I actually like Brawl more than Melee. A 0.3 second hitstun is not that bad compared to the length of Melee's hitstun.

Also, SummerObsession, I don't think Marth needs any buffs. He's already near top tier. Despite all the weakness you listed, everyone loves him.

 

[Aminar]

Falco's chaingrab can end in an instant spike eliminates the character's chance of winning the match if he's grabbed at 0 percent.

As for D3, like I said, I'm not sure about the chaingrabs. They do relatively small amounts of damage, compared to say ICs.



Pit already has a reflector. He doesn't need a second one. From what I have seen, Pit has fine KO potential as well as some gimping ability. I wanted Angel Ring buffed as well as nerfed. Palutena's Arrows are ridiculously fast as well as maneuverable. As many people have stated, you 'press B for damage' with Pit.

Also for those of you calling me a Melee whiner, I actually like Brawl more than Melee. A 0.3 second hitstun is not that bad compared to the length of Melee's hitstun.

Also, SummerObsession, I don't think Marth needs any buffs. He's already near top tier. Despite all the weakness you listed, everyone loves him.

Pit's Arrows are not broken, nor are they auto damage. AT very best they are pressure that is still owned by Falco's Laser. I know 8 year olds that can deal with arrow spam effectively. And removing a reflector is in effect pointless. He can't use both at once, and both are very punishable. Worry about truly broken things like MK Tornado.

 

[okiyama]

I stopped reading when you made no changes to ice climbers.

 

[wazgood]

instead of nerfs, you should just buff the rest of the cast so every character will be playable at a high level

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I stopped reading when you made no changes to ice climbers.

Like I said if you'd read the OP, I don't play Ice Climbers and this list is open to changes. I don't know precisely how to buff them or nerf them. If you have suggestions, put them out.

 

[okiyama]

Ok I'll start off on them then.
-Remove the ability to control nana while you are grabbing/throwing someone.

uhhh I think that's about it. That'd get rid of their ridiculous 0-death chain grabs. Lol, I tried to come up with something else but couldn't.

 

[lax guy5]

They should improve the wi-fi. On Mario Kart Wii no one ever lags but there is quite a bit of it on SSBB.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Pit's Arrows are not broken, nor are they auto damage. AT very best they are pressure that is still owned by Falco's Laser. I know 8 year olds that can deal with arrow spam effectively. And removing a reflector is in effect pointless. He can't use both at once, and both are very punishable. Worry about truly broken things like MK Tornado.

I did nerf the whorenado. It's not like I'm making the arrows useless. They can gimp, they give viable damage, they have almost no risk, you can choose where to shoot them and when. It's not like they're going to be useless for losing a single percent of damage. They are fantastic projectiles and can do many different things, which is why I believe the damage should be slightly nerfed.

I am only interested in balance, here. Everyone is going to see a nerf to their character and start moaning and complaining instantly. I'm a Zelda main and you'll see I nerfed her as well.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Ok I'll start off on them then.
-Remove the ability to control nana while you are grabbing/throwing someone.

uhhh I think that's about it. That'd get rid of their ridiculous 0-death chain grabs. Lol, I tried to come up with something else but couldn't.

I see this, but I also realize that if you get rid of their chainthrows then Ice Climbers would probably become worthless to almost every competitive player. Chainthrows are difficult to set up. Separate the climbers, spend a lot of time jumping, do platform stages. They can be beaten if you're smart about it.

 

[the_Capt_Falcon_Master]

the adding of alternate coustumes. And thats it.

 

[ChronoTrigga]

The ability to have melee physics and both brawl physics. :D

 

[dragoncrescent]

I wonder how feasible it is to patch Brawl in the first place?

Sonic:
-cut homing attack time in half
-f-smash comes out .2 seconds faster
-d-smash comes out .5 seconds faster
-d-air spikes if hit in the first .4 seconds of descent

Squirtle
-slightly increase knockback of f-air and b-air.
-up-smash comes out 0.1 quicker

Ivysaur
-increase weight slightly

Charizard
-increase jump height slightly

Peach
-increase height gained during second jump.

Samus
-bombs detonate on contact.
-speed up slightly 'power' missiles.
-increase knockback of fully-charged beam cannon

Jigglypuff
-increase power of Rest to kill at 35% and above

Gannondorf
-increase running speed slightly
-down-b in mid-air gives you second jump back

Pikachu
-Volt Tackle easier to control
-reduce hitstun of d-smash

Pit
-remove reflect property of Angel Ring
-increase speed at which Mirror Shield comes out by .4 seconds.

Olimar
-make Pikmin easier to kill

 

[SwastikaPyle]

^ I like most of the above list, except I'd change Mirror Shield to come out .2 seconds faster. It's already pretty quick.

 

[0RLY]

General Changes
-Increase hitstun by at least 0.2 seconds (This change would probably balance the characters out most)
-Increase invincibility frames for rolling (I don't know about you guys, but when I roll I feel so vulnerable. This one I'm not too sure about though.)
-transformation time between zelda/sheik reduced.
-get rid of the grab infinites on ness/lucas
-enable the option to turn off Tripping of Death

transformation time is brawl loading character data and may not be possible to change

hitstun improvements should not be made on all charas/moves *COUGH* MetaKnight *COUGH*

L-CANCEL!!!!!! plz?

Character Changes

Bowser (I actually think he's pretty well balanced this time around)

Add invisible hitbox above upair to give it a little more range
Give Dair a suction effect similar to Wario's dair
Remove grab infinite... maybe?
Make B-down easier to sweetspot the ledge

Captain Falcon
-increase priority for Falcon Kick
-extend down-air's hitbox
-increase the interval of time that you can activate the sweetspot of the Knee of Justice by 0.2 seconds
-increase grab range slightly

Lower the KB on Raptor Boost
Give uair a hitbox at the end of the kick so it has 180 degree range. Right now, it only has a hitbox up until his leg goes 90 degrees

Diddy Kong (fairly well balanced. I get the feeling he'll be considered broken in the future)


Donkey Kong (fairly well balanced)


Falco
-chainthrow either eliminated or reduced to 20%.


Fox (pretty well balanced)


Game & Watch
-Down smash ko's 15% later
-up+b creates a stun effect similar to peach's umbrella

Remove bair's last hitbox that wrecks shields... just the last one
Uair no longer gets rid of decay if the wind hits
Lower fsmash's duration so that it can be at least side dodged
Remove limit on Oil Panic

Ganondorf
-increase run speed slightly
-give second jump back after performing down+b in the air
-up-tilt hitbox changed to be much bigger, about 4/5ths the size of PK Cross
-up-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.5 seconds

Allow fair to be auto canceled with a full hop
Switch utilt with usmash so that his utilt activates his usmash (functions like Snake's), and his usmash will activate his utilt (which can be charged and released at will)
Super Armor on Warlock Punch
Wizard's foot has a hitbox at the startup of the move. I hate passing through people with that move
Give Dark Dive HITSTUN! Right now, it has absolutely none!
Improve KO power of Dark Dive so that it's stronger than Falcon Dive
Jab has less start-up lag and IASA frames.... so it actually does something ftilt doesn't

Ice Climbers


Ike
-counter comes out 0.1 second faster
-ftilt's startup lag decreased by 0.1 second

Quick Draw doesn't put Ike into fall special... so it function's like Pikachu's
Extend Aether's sword spinning duration so Ike is less easily edgeguarded
Dtilt's startup lag decreased by 0.1 second

Jigglypuff (the hitstun change I suggest earlier is probably all she needs)
-down+b kills 10% earlier

Extend dsmash's range
Extend fsmash's range
Make dtilt and ftilt do something

King Dedede (I don't know about the chainthrows, you guys can tell me what you think)
-Decrease back throw damage to 10%
-obviously, get rid of the standing infinite grab

Just change dthrow so that it gets more knockback depending on your foe's %
Improve Jet Hammer's KO strength when charged, add more range, and decrease ending lag so he doesn't automatically SD when using it offstage

Kirby (very well balanced character)
-down+b startup lag decreased by 0.15 seconds

Stone's ending lag provides invincibility during the unmorph. Invincibility ends 0.1 seconds before Kirby can perform his next action
Final Cutter can sweetspot the ledge facing backwards
Remove phantom lag from grounded hammer
Kirby can only inhale for a set amount of time, like Wario's bite
Being swallowed/star shotted returns target's second jump

Link
-up+b ko's 30% earlier
-up+b recovery height increased
-z-air recovery length increased
-ftilt startup lag decreased by 0.15 seconds

Improve double jump height
Reduce falling speed just a tad

Lucario (very well balanced character)

Hitbox on extremespeed, similar to that of Fox's illusion
Force Palm's grab range and grab duration slightly increased.
Force Palm's flames reflect projectiles
More knockback on fair so it doesn't combo as easily

Lucas (very well balanced character)

PKT2 glides up walls instead of bouncing off

Luigi
-Nair kills at least 15% later.
-fire uppercut kills at least 12% later
-dair spikes at any area of the hitbox
-vertical height for his down+b recovery reduced by 30% only when used in conjunction with his double jump

Dair spikes at the top of the hitbox
Increase ftilt kb
Dtilt trip chance is 40%
Taunt spike pauses the game for a moment with a similar effect to Zelda's lightning kick and Falcon's knee

Mario (well balanced)

FLUDD's pushback strength increased
Give fsmash a distinct sweetspot that makes it feel like you're actually lighting them on fire and not brushing them with a candle

Marth (I think pretty well balanced, others may disagree.)

Dancing Blade no longer combos into itself at high %s

Meta Knight (oh boy)
-Mach Tornado landing lag increased by 0.2 seconds
-Number of jumps reduced to 4
-d-smash ending lag increased by 0.3 seconds
-up+b given decreased superarmor frames

Reduce hitstun on ALL moves
No IASA on all moves
Reduce priority on moves... they're still disjointed

Ness
-lag from pk fire reduced by 0.15 seconds
-d-air startup lag reduced by 0.1 seconds
-down-smash kills 25% earlier
-up-smash gives spiking properties if you hang it off the edge (I hear it already has this but I can't ever seem to make it work)

Allow usmash and dsmash to be charged near the ledge
PKT2 glides up walls instead of bouncing off

Olimar (well balanced)

Add more ending lag to grab (about as much as Lucas?)
B-up always aims for ledge even when it's hogged. If the foe is invincibile, it fails. If the foe isn't, they will get hit and Olimar can recover.
B-up can be used 3 times in the air, just like the other characters
More ending lag in smash attacks

Peach (well balanced)

Height on double jump improved
Umbrella can sweetspot the stage when facing opposite direction

Pikachu (well balanced)

Dsmash has more ending lag
Usmash has less histun
Fsmash has more startup lag
Thunder has more ending lag and less duration so that it can be airdodged
Thunder jolt has less priority

Pit
-side+b loses it's reflecting properties but slightly increased damage
-arrow damage decreased by 1%

Angel Ring is more easily DI'd out of
More auto cancel frames on uair and nair
Meteor hitbox on dair enlarged and extended
Wings of Icarus flight speed slightly increased
More startup lag on fsmash
Less KO power on usmash
More ending lag on dsmash

Pokémon Trainer
-Rock Smash damage nerfed by at least 10% (I got 45% in one hit the other day. WTF)
-Ivysaur weight increased.
-lag from Ivysaur's d-air decreased by 0.15 seconds
-knockback from Ivysaur's dsmash increased
-Ivysaur's tether recovery given increased range
-Razor leaf's (side+b) damage increased by 1%
-Pokemon switch (down+b) reduced by 0.4 seconds

Squirtle's water gun has more pushback
Water Gun uncharged startup speed increase
Withdraw can be canceled by just pressing the special button, instead of forward special
Withdraw cancel speed increased

Ivysaur's tether (see Olimar)
Bullet seed easier to DI out of
Ivysaur's dair spike through the whole animation

Charizard's dsmash kill power increase
Charizard's glide speed significant increase
Charizard's nair easier to sweet spot with the flame and absolutely no landing lag

R.O.B.
-laser damage decreased by 1%
-gyro knockback slightly decreased (unsure of this one)
-hitbox for b-air decreased slightly
-d-smash damage decreased by 2%
-f-smash damage increased by 2%
-f-smash given slightly increased hitbox and knockback

Laser knock back decreased
All projectile hitstun decreased
B-up uses fuel faster
Dsmash does not pierce shields
Usmash more startup lag
Ftilt deals less damage
Gyro disappears when it deals damage while spinning on the ground
Nair has more landing lag
Dair can be used instantly out of a jump

Samus
-down+b bomb explodes on proximity
-down+b damage increased by 3%
-d-smash given increased knockback so it's stronger than dtilt
-knockback for neutral B (charged shot) increased

Super Missiles get increased knockback (they don't kill in sudden death >.>)
Super Missiles come out faster, but still slower than homing missiles
Grab startup speed improved
Grab ending lag decreased upon pivot grab (like Yoshi's)
Nair given more priority and damage from 6% -> 10%
Fall speed increased (why does she fall slower than zamus when wearing an additional 80kg of armor?)
Fsmash power increased, add the tipper from melee back
Usmash has very strong suction effect
More KO power on what little killing moves she has

Sheik (fairly well balanced)

Uair has no landing lag
Chain has more hitstun (people still won't use it anyways)
More priority on attacks
First hit of fsmash has set knock back, like Toon Link's
Make Vanish go through edge hoggers instead of bumping her head on some invisible wall
Remove stall+fall dair

Snake (oh boy)
-u-tilt kills at least 20% later
-f-tilt damage decreased to 7% for the first hit, 8% for the second
-hitboxes for u-tilt and f-tilt greatly decreased

Dsmash mines last longer and explode when their time has run out instead of diappearing
Grenades deal less damage and have less KO potential
Weight dropped
Jab combo knockback decrease

Sonic
-knockback for downsmash increased
-damage for f-air increased by 2%
-damage for up-smash increased by 2%

Increase in priority.
Be able to hit through Wario's Bite by attacking him from a different angle.
Homing Attack landing lag reduced
Air Trip glitch removed

Toon Link (fairly well balanced)


Wario (fairly well balanced)
-d-smash time decreased by 0.4 seconds
-change grab break animation so he doesn't fall right into a free attack

Reduce super armor duration from fsmash
Allow Corkscrew to sweetspot ledges
Autocancel frames on aerials removed or reduced
Weaken fsmash knockback
Drop jumping animation from Bike recovery's height
Half waft made weaker than full waft, and full waft made as strong as half waft

Wolf
-d-smash has 0.2 seconds of lag added in between both hits

Allow both recoveries to be able to move after use.
Bair's knockback weakened
Increase dash attack's startup speed and reduce ending lag

Yoshi (I don't play Yoshi, I'll leave it to you guys to decide the changes)

Allow Yoshi Bomb to sweetspot the ledge backwards
Reduce startup lag and ending lag on fair
Increase auto cancel frames on dair
Increase in Priority
Egg lay does not cause opponents to jump out of the egg when they break free, they just keep falling until they jump
Allow Yoshi to jump out of his shield

Zelda
-increase startup lag for u-smash by 0.10 seconds
-Din's Fire hitbox slightly reduced
-f-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.15 seconds
-u-tilt startup lag reduced by 0.15 seconds
-decrease startup lag for up+b teleport by 0.25 seconds


Zero Suit Samus
-neutral b changed so that she can keep a charged up shot and fire it later
-weight slightly increased
-throw lag reduced by 0.7 seconds

Neutral B changed so that it auto charges like ROB's... like the Metroid games
Charging her fsmash should increase it's power and knockback
Charging her dsmash increases stun time instead of knockback
Drop shorthop height
Allow her to use her b-down again if she is hit by a foe's attack before landing
Remove dead zone on b-forward and grab
Increase startup speed for nair, so it comes out as fast as Ness' nair
Remove stall+fall dair. Keep it as it is just without the auto fall+stall
Make Jab combo an actual combo

 

[Grunt]

Snake's U-tilt needs moar floating hitboxes.
Samus really needs to change.
heavier 4 sure.
Give Charge beam killing power back.
Same with DSmash
and Bair
and Nair
make bombs explode on contact again.

 

[Sakki]

Kirby's Final Cutter should have a hitbox on the sword the whole time or atleast start to have a hit box before the apex of the move. Also, Kirby should be given some kind of glitch/AT that isnt next to useless like using Down B on Pictochat...