ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
If the Ike is good then there really is no punishable end lag.
The moves that ARE laggy have enough range to make up for it.
I got ***** by crouch cancelled jabs, too.
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Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*
- Thread starter NinjaFoxX
- Start date
- Status
The moves that ARE laggy have enough range to make up for it.
I got ***** by crouch cancelled jabs, too.
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
exactly. but nobody offered any useful information. i still think its a pretty even match. his horrid recovery really works hard to our disadvantage. but he can send us flying with a side tilt... and spike our tether recovery with his dtilt.... it may be 50:50.... both have our own strengths and weaknesses in the matchup....
lain
Smash Master
SideB really helps out in this matchup. It lets you avoid NOT landing anywhere near him, getting ***** by charged mashes.
If you shield a smash by him, unless powershielded, do NOT try and run in to grab. You will get jabbed.
blizzard's pretty gay in this matchup, just make sure not to get outspaced obv.
uhm but yeah seriously sideB. this matchup. makes it 70-30.
If you shield a smash by him, unless powershielded, do NOT try and run in to grab. You will get jabbed.
blizzard's pretty gay in this matchup, just make sure not to get outspaced obv.
uhm but yeah seriously sideB. this matchup. makes it 70-30.
Dev2000
Smash Lord
i myself dont have a problem with ike ive fought quite a few ofc they beat me but mostly i beat them i myself will go for a 60:40 if it comes to IC vs Ike
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
look like you guys are ahead of teh curve, if you havent guessed it, this week's Ike
another easy..ish one i guess.
blizzard ***** hard. nuff said
squall ***** harder...
another easy..ish one i guess.
blizzard ***** hard. nuff said
squall ***** harder...
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Ike has friends?
Anyways I'd honestly say this is even to anywhere to Ike's advantage, but I'm leaning to Ike's advantage.
Ike is so annoying, it's so hard to get close to him cause his giant *** dic.... I mean sword is so LONG! (lawlcakes). It's hard to get the grab is he spaces properly even his his attacks are "slow".
His Fair is a ***** and crouched canceled jabs are a ***** as well. I feel as if we have to constantly use Blizzard and Squall to get into him and kill him.
Yeah I don't play enough Ike's so I'm just gonna say 40: 60 to IC: Ike.
Anyways I'd honestly say this is even to anywhere to Ike's advantage, but I'm leaning to Ike's advantage.
Ike is so annoying, it's so hard to get close to him cause his giant *** dic.... I mean sword is so LONG! (lawlcakes). It's hard to get the grab is he spaces properly even his his attacks are "slow".
His Fair is a ***** and crouched canceled jabs are a ***** as well. I feel as if we have to constantly use Blizzard and Squall to get into him and kill him.
Yeah I don't play enough Ike's so I'm just gonna say 40: 60 to IC: Ike.
Ussi
Smash Legend
My philosophy on this match up...
Ike punishes stupidity with a fsmash...
Nana is stupid...
Ike + Nana - Smart Popo protecting Nana = Dead Nana at 40%
My preferred method in this match up is to grab Popo/Nana grab attack to knock the other one away then bthrow and go after Nana, then jab Popo away after he tries to save Nana then fsmash Nana.. (Or some strong move to hit Nana away or maybe fair her while she's off stage, you get the point)
If you aren't good at 0-death then this match up will be a bit hard for IC. Also depends on how good Ike is at button mashing out of Nana's grab before being thrown into Popo's usmash..
Ike punishes stupidity with a fsmash...
Nana is stupid...
Ike + Nana - Smart Popo protecting Nana = Dead Nana at 40%
My preferred method in this match up is to grab Popo/Nana grab attack to knock the other one away then bthrow and go after Nana, then jab Popo away after he tries to save Nana then fsmash Nana.. (Or some strong move to hit Nana away or maybe fair her while she's off stage, you get the point)
If you aren't good at 0-death then this match up will be a bit hard for IC. Also depends on how good Ike is at button mashing out of Nana's grab before being thrown into Popo's usmash..
Bnzaaa
Smash Ace
This matchup may not be as easy as people think it is.
Ike has Jab that is quicker than ours (frame 3) and the first 2 hits can link into another Jab chain. Jab can knock you off the stage at high percents.
Ike has a sword. A giant one. With lots of priority, power, and range.
His tilts are all very powerful. F-Tilt may be one of Ike's more reliable kill moves. It's not fast, but it has awesome range. His Up-Tilt beat out everything we have from above, and has kill potential. I think this move may be fairly situational. Down-Tilt is situational, due to it's lack of speed and massive end lag. It has the ability to spike for an edgeguard as well.
All his smashes are powerful. F-Smash his extremely powerful with the ability to kill at around 60, maybe even lower. It has good range also. Down-Smash hits on both sides, but it isn't quick and is punishable. You won't see this move being used much if at all. Up-Smash swings in an arc, and hits in front, over, and behind him. It has a lot of range, and is hard to avoid when trying to land.
Ike will probably be approaching from the air. N-Air hits around him with very little landing lag. Ike can link this into a Jab, and N-Air (and all his other aerials,) have enough shield knockback (unless powershielded) to hit you out of range for a counterattack. F-Air is a commonly used approach. It has the most range out of any F-Air in the game. It hits hard and can KO when fresh. It also has either little landing lag or Interrupted as Soon as Frames upon landing (not sure which,) so punishing it's end lag (especially with a grab) isn't that easy. It aslo hits under him slightly. D-Air spikes when sweetspoted. When not sweetspoted it sends you into the air. B-Air is Ike's fastest aerial. It can be used in a shorthop with the move ending before landing. It comes out on frame 6 . Up-Air can kill and stays out for a while. This move can also be difficult to avoid from above.
His Neutral-B (Eruption) is one of the most powerful moves in the game when it's almost fully charged. It has deceptive range and Super Armor upon release I think. An uncharged Eruption can kill around 100. It has the ability to spike, but the massive end lag and the rare chances of it happening don't make the spike useful. His Side-B (Quick Draw) isn't save on the shield and is very punishable when it just misses the opponent. If he misses his opponent completely, he can do any action right after. Up-B (Aether) has Super Armor frames when Ike is on the way up. It hits multiple times and also spikes. Ike's Counter is one of the strongest counters in the game. It's pretty useless though, as it takes too long to activate, and missing a counter means extreme punishment.
Ike ***** Nana when the Ice Climbers get separated.
Ike can edgeguard us pretty easily. Every single move of his can hit us out of Squall Hammer (Jab included.) Reverse Aether Dragging will allow him to spike with Aether, while grabbing the ledge. He can use Down-Tilt to spike us if we are close to or hanging on the edge.
Ike has 2 recovery options. He can either Quick Draw, or use Aether. Most Ike users will almost never use Quick Draw. All it takes for them to fall is for you to get in the way of the attack. It also doesn't sweetspot the ledge, which can be a problem for them on some stages. They will use Aether to come back, usually at the lowest point possible so they can grab the edge and hit you at the same time.
If Ike grabs you, they will pummel to knock the other Climber away. Forward Throw is fast and will knock into the other Climber. Back throw may also be used, as it moves Ike in the direction he's throwing (away from you.)
Ice Blocks force Ike to approach due to his lack of projectile. Blizzard gives Ike problems, and Desynched Blizzards makes it difficult to approach. Squall Hammer racks up damage well on him also for damage and juggling him. Up-Airs should work well due to his weight and falling speed. He also has limited options when he's above us. You should be able to react to what he does when he's landing and punish accordingly. He's heavy, so chaingrabbing him shouldn't be that difficult.
Powershielding is extremely important if you want to grab/punish him. Most of his moves can be blocked on reaction, but if it's normal shielded the attack will knock you back too far to punish him.
Taking Ike to a stage with platforms like Battlefield may be a bad idea, as he can attack through the platforms easily. Delfino is a bad stage for use due to the water and platforms. Final Destination is the best stage to fight him on.
This is probably 6-4 in Ike's favor.
Ike has Jab that is quicker than ours (frame 3) and the first 2 hits can link into another Jab chain. Jab can knock you off the stage at high percents.
Ike has a sword. A giant one. With lots of priority, power, and range.
His tilts are all very powerful. F-Tilt may be one of Ike's more reliable kill moves. It's not fast, but it has awesome range. His Up-Tilt beat out everything we have from above, and has kill potential. I think this move may be fairly situational. Down-Tilt is situational, due to it's lack of speed and massive end lag. It has the ability to spike for an edgeguard as well.
All his smashes are powerful. F-Smash his extremely powerful with the ability to kill at around 60, maybe even lower. It has good range also. Down-Smash hits on both sides, but it isn't quick and is punishable. You won't see this move being used much if at all. Up-Smash swings in an arc, and hits in front, over, and behind him. It has a lot of range, and is hard to avoid when trying to land.
Ike will probably be approaching from the air. N-Air hits around him with very little landing lag. Ike can link this into a Jab, and N-Air (and all his other aerials,) have enough shield knockback (unless powershielded) to hit you out of range for a counterattack. F-Air is a commonly used approach. It has the most range out of any F-Air in the game. It hits hard and can KO when fresh. It also has either little landing lag or Interrupted as Soon as Frames upon landing (not sure which,) so punishing it's end lag (especially with a grab) isn't that easy. It aslo hits under him slightly. D-Air spikes when sweetspoted. When not sweetspoted it sends you into the air. B-Air is Ike's fastest aerial. It can be used in a shorthop with the move ending before landing. It comes out on frame 6 . Up-Air can kill and stays out for a while. This move can also be difficult to avoid from above.
His Neutral-B (Eruption) is one of the most powerful moves in the game when it's almost fully charged. It has deceptive range and Super Armor upon release I think. An uncharged Eruption can kill around 100. It has the ability to spike, but the massive end lag and the rare chances of it happening don't make the spike useful. His Side-B (Quick Draw) isn't save on the shield and is very punishable when it just misses the opponent. If he misses his opponent completely, he can do any action right after. Up-B (Aether) has Super Armor frames when Ike is on the way up. It hits multiple times and also spikes. Ike's Counter is one of the strongest counters in the game. It's pretty useless though, as it takes too long to activate, and missing a counter means extreme punishment.
Ike ***** Nana when the Ice Climbers get separated.
Ike can edgeguard us pretty easily. Every single move of his can hit us out of Squall Hammer (Jab included.) Reverse Aether Dragging will allow him to spike with Aether, while grabbing the ledge. He can use Down-Tilt to spike us if we are close to or hanging on the edge.
Ike has 2 recovery options. He can either Quick Draw, or use Aether. Most Ike users will almost never use Quick Draw. All it takes for them to fall is for you to get in the way of the attack. It also doesn't sweetspot the ledge, which can be a problem for them on some stages. They will use Aether to come back, usually at the lowest point possible so they can grab the edge and hit you at the same time.
If Ike grabs you, they will pummel to knock the other Climber away. Forward Throw is fast and will knock into the other Climber. Back throw may also be used, as it moves Ike in the direction he's throwing (away from you.)
Ice Blocks force Ike to approach due to his lack of projectile. Blizzard gives Ike problems, and Desynched Blizzards makes it difficult to approach. Squall Hammer racks up damage well on him also for damage and juggling him. Up-Airs should work well due to his weight and falling speed. He also has limited options when he's above us. You should be able to react to what he does when he's landing and punish accordingly. He's heavy, so chaingrabbing him shouldn't be that difficult.
Powershielding is extremely important if you want to grab/punish him. Most of his moves can be blocked on reaction, but if it's normal shielded the attack will knock you back too far to punish him.
Taking Ike to a stage with platforms like Battlefield may be a bad idea, as he can attack through the platforms easily. Delfino is a bad stage for use due to the water and platforms. Final Destination is the best stage to fight him on.
This is probably 6-4 in Ike's favor.
Ussi
Smash Legend
I should probably stop checking to see if you're gonna edit your post...
TP
Smash Master
Hi guys. I would just like to say that the summary for Ganon is incredibly accurate, the best I have seen in a matchup thread. Good job.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
late again, anyways this week is Ivysaur
this ones a...disadvantage? lol explain this one(seeing as ive never fought one ;P)
this ones a...disadvantage? lol explain this one(seeing as ive never fought one ;P)
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
his razor blades can be annoying to ice block canceling. plus his smashes/tilts have range/multihit properties respectively. his usmash and uair have kill potential like NOBODY'S business. on the other hand, his bullet seed is pretty much useless if it misses due to end lag, making a grab easy. his recovery is.. well... its crap. the guy has a tether that can be edge hogged easily. his aerials can help him space the ICs (especially bair), but blizzard can out reach pretty much anything he has (aside from razor leaf). his medium weight means cgs are easy to time, yet he can be sent flying pretty easily.
i'd say at least 6:4 our favor.
i'd say at least 6:4 our favor.
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
I've never really had a problem against Ivy, and I play a good one on a regular basis.
Razor leaf goes through EVERYTHING. Usmash kills at like 40%. His grab is decent. Ftilt and Bullet Seed are good damage builders. His jab is a good move to get you off him. Besides these strong points, though, he doesn't really have much. I prefer chaining dthrows (easier than fthrows to time) to the ledge for a spike. His recover isn't good from under the stage, so this should get you some early kills.
Razor leaf goes through EVERYTHING. Usmash kills at like 40%. His grab is decent. Ftilt and Bullet Seed are good damage builders. His jab is a good move to get you off him. Besides these strong points, though, he doesn't really have much. I prefer chaining dthrows (easier than fthrows to time) to the ledge for a spike. His recover isn't good from under the stage, so this should get you some early kills.
JustNoOne
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2008
- Messages
- 1,537
Well it's even to somewhat his advantage IMO.
His Bair is a ***** and Ivysaur will use it, you have Blizzard to deal with it and desyncing it makes it much more better, but than he can just razor leaf his way to it. =O
His Ftilt is annoying, it somewhat splits up the ICs and it kinda eats your shield :*(
I have little knowledge on it so 60: 40 Ivysaur: ICs
His Bair is a ***** and Ivysaur will use it, you have Blizzard to deal with it and desyncing it makes it much more better, but than he can just razor leaf his way to it. =O
His Ftilt is annoying, it somewhat splits up the ICs and it kinda eats your shield :*(
I have little knowledge on it so 60: 40 Ivysaur: ICs
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
that must be a typo, wtf? better cp a stage with a high ceiling...luiigis mansion anyone?
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
That MIGHT be an exaggeration, but it's probably the most powerful usmash in the game.
I forgot about his bair. It can be a pain, but I'm pretty sure it lacks priority. It can usually be shut down with a SHed squall or blizzard. It's knockback/hitstun is practically non-existent, so unless the Ivysaur has FLAWLESS spacing, the move really isn't all too effective.
Kage Me
Smash Ace
Nope, not an exaggeration. With poor DI, this is going to kill you at 40%.
lain
Smash Master
REALLY? Ivysaur?
REALLY?
jks.
10-0
REALLY?
jks.
10-0
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
^^
i think he has the right idea
ignore the fire
Smash Journeyman
>________>
This actually has SOME value (as do all of lain's useless comments).
I find Squirtle or even Charizard a harder matchup (especially Squirtle if you've never played a good PT). Ivy isn't terrible, but he doesn't have much of anything to combat the ICs. Charizard at least has some range/power and speed, and Squirtle can be very confusing if he's good at shell-shifting and stuffff.
lain ftw.
lain
Smash Master
my posts are one that on the surface are nothing but scrawling's of a ****, but they carry hidden truth.
lalw
lalw
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
nah, they really don't have any depth. people just look for depth to them so they don't feel so insignificant at being worse that someone who smokes pot all (month).
Dev2000
Smash Lord
i dont play against ivysaur alot but when i do i dont have a real big problem with him the biggest problem for me is his razor leaf and his Bair you just have to stay a little bit away from him and Dont jump on top of him his Usmash wil kill
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
thats all well and good, but remember: periods were invented for a reason.
meepxzero
Smash Master
why doesnt this thread do match ups that matter lol?
Ussi
Smash Legend
Use Blizzard, 120 base power and 70% accuracy. will OHKO ivysaur due to STAB and super effectiveness. Pray you don't miss.
lain
Smash Master
LOL. harsh man. real harsh.
EverAlert
Smash Master
LOOOL Ivysaur doesn't have much on Icies. As mentioned, Razor Leaf can be annoying, but that's about it. U-Smash isn't all that much of an issue since you should be spending the majority of your time on the ground anyway.
70:30?
The main issue is Ivysaur switching to other Pokemon...
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
It's REALLY powerful, but very telegraphed, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
momochuu
Smash Legend
- Joined
- May 8, 2008
- Messages
- 12,868
- NNID
- Momochuu
- 3DS FC
- 2380-3247-9039
Lol, you win.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
Well I just played Barge,and Ivysaur was destroyed out there.Anytime the IC's got close,There was nothing he could of done.Things got alot better when I used Charizard though.Ivysaur may outcamp them,He cannot do much when they approach.
75:25 Ice climbers advantage.
75:25 Ice climbers advantage.
J4pu
Smash Champion
anybody mind giving me a rough estimate for the IC vs Pikachu match-up?
lain
Smash Master
IC vs Pika at a high level of play is 55-45 or 60-40 in IC's favor. Play it smart and wait, don't let him hit you with a lot of thunderjolts, sideb around him so he doesn't just catch you with dsmash from landing, and hit the z button a lot.
Kage Me
Smash Ace
...Then he'd Vine Whip into thin air. The Climbers are pretty short, so they'd have to be very close for that attack to hit.
SSJ5Goku8932
Smash Lord
LOL B is not Vine whip,Its bullet seed,and if the IC's are running when he Bullet seeds,then DI will save them from ****.
NinjaFoxX
Banned via Warnings
late again, lawl...
this week is...dittos, but if you happen to be the only active IC in ur area(*cough*me) just talk about other match-ups...
if u want xD
this week is...dittos, but if you happen to be the only active IC in ur area(*cough*me) just talk about other match-ups...
if u want xD
Dev2000
Smash Lord
uhm the lack of ability to chaingrab is a pain in the *** but if nana is dead and yours isnt then its a pretty easy match i geuss its 50/50 cause the ditto match players are capable of the same things
lain
Smash Master
this matchup is absolutely horrible for ICe Climbers. 10-0.
that aside, this is a silly matchup. a silly, ******** matchup filled with fullhop blizzarding and squall hammer, with a pinch of shield release to fsmash.
oh and lots of juggling with aerials. that too.
this matchup is not fun at all. however it IS fun to infinite someone's popo. it hurts so bad :]
that aside, this is a silly matchup. a silly, ******** matchup filled with fullhop blizzarding and squall hammer, with a pinch of shield release to fsmash.
oh and lots of juggling with aerials. that too.
this matchup is not fun at all. however it IS fun to infinite someone's popo. it hurts so bad :]
FrozenHobo
Smash Hero
BLIZZARD SPAM!!!
thats not an exageration. its 5:5, but i think its widely agreed that IC dittoes are THE most annoying dittoes. ever.
thats not an exageration. its 5:5, but i think its widely agreed that IC dittoes are THE most annoying dittoes. ever.
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