Ice Climbers Matchup Thread*Closed*

[l!nk_aut]

ic ditos are sooo annoying. its like who´s blizzard hits first -.-

 

[ignore the fire]

There's a few ICs popping up in my area >_______>
I may actually have experience on this matchup someday.
I'm guessing it would just be smashes/blizzards/squalls/uairs.
Maybe even a dthrow CG? lol

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

I may actually have experience on this matchup someday.
I'm guessing it would just be smashes/blizzards/squalls/uairs.
Maybe even a dthrow CG? lol

I d-throw CG ICs plenty of times in the match, and if they DI and jump, I'll use u-air. And from ITF's quote, I do use lots of desynched Blizzards, smashes, Squalls, and u-airs. >_<;

Maybe it's aen even matchup?

 

[Smasher89]

I agree with it being 10-0, Nana wins this matchup soooo to the extreeme...

What seems to work for me is the (even though my opponent's is not IC mains, but sometimes tries to counterpick dittos once in a while, or just some friendlies) dsmashspam, their most damaging move (and they dont have too much range except for blizzard, so there will be openings for it).

Along with Double IC chaingrab at low % (make sure to grab both), Ice blocks to prevent movedecay. And blizzard for damage.

Dtilt at ledge is great against ICs due to the fact that they might get separated and falls close to the KO, just make sure they got enough % for it to be effective though.

Again, Dsmash is the move to use...

 

[Barge]

I hate this matchup.
It should go die.

 

[Diddyknight]

fun match actually. But its stupid.

i counter blizzard with blizzard or squall wit squall etc.
too much ariel games T_T

 

[ignore the fire]

Now that I think about it, I would welcome my opponent to CP ICs against me, because I'm probably better than them without CGs (and with CGs). It's like me trying to CP an MK with an MK. I would get owned.

You should still be able to CG in this match, though. A certain team match I've played comes to mind. My teammate was out, and both opponents were left. I started to CG one of my opponents. The other one rushed in to help, whom I proceeded to fsmash with Nana while Popo continued to hold his teammate. It was completely unexpected, and it obviously didn't work more than once in that match, but it's definitely easier to do against a computer. Like the computer controlling the other IC's Nana. Nana's AI would continue to rush in blindly with a dash attack, which you greet with a smash from your Nana. Your opponent needs to have a decent amount of damage to keep him from breaking out while you bat Nana away, but it's definitely possible. Just an idea...

 

[NinjaFoxX]

this week is jiggs

another one of those all arieal characters, get her(or him, lol) to the ground and its a grab

also i ''wrote'' a synopsys for the dittos(bonus points if you figure out who it was originally for*hint someone from melee*)

Against someone who you can't exploit any strongpoint and weakpoint, it becomes very much a brawl of mindgames. Your greatest strengths are nulled, and your biggest weaknesses forgiven. There's little advice I can give, so here goes! Exploiting the near-meaningless recovery, downthrows by ledge into edgehog is the way to go. But to get there you're going to have to fight safe as you can without spamming blizzard, since its gonna be punished. Desynced SH blizzards THROUGH the opponent and hit them....D.Smashes every chance can't go wrong, but UpTilts will work good to defend against SH attacks and can also combo into upairs and a possible belay, yourself. grabbing is good against ICs, since its a miracle if their litle nubs called apendages can actually hit you anyway...and Projectiling with IBs are good, but better left as aerial pre-offenses. ICs tends to break out of combos well with his smaller size, average weight, and blizzards...so try to start early with UpAirs and finish him with what seems the most reliable. As a great offense a uair into a falling B.air is mighty sexy. It can turn around their anti-air movement(even though you're not facing them) and them snipe them with your hammers last minute.
Ditto matches donnot prove who is better, so don't be discouraged if you lose. It only means today they were better fighting IC vs. IC. What point is made in beating a character who you cannot stress IC's real advantages and disadvantages against? The very characteristics that makes them Ice Climbers?...I'll tell you what. Nothing...its like ICs are no longer ICs, but a souless vessle trapped in a psychological game of rock-paper-sciccors floating into the corners of the universe just waiting to implode-THATS WHAT!*#@!! >:O.........well, maybe not. But I thought it sounded cool.

 

[FrozenHobo]

her air game/pound gives her a 6/4 but her weight makes her easy to ko (though not really cg). they have it set at 5/5 but they have to be a GOOD jiggly to put up a fight.

 

[JustNoOne]

J-Puff is gangster yo...

Her pound goes through our Squall, so we have to use belay to recover :*( which means more time for Jiggs to try and get her Wall of Pain on us.

Dair is like awesome, it does quite a bit of damage on us and as well it leads to a Drillrest. It's hard to punish since we really can't Utilt through it and or Usmash can't as well, even Belay. So basically I just space as much as I can and do a Blizzard in the air to try and punish her for doing so.

6:4 Jiggs/J-Puff:ICs

That's all I can think of in 5 mins. As well her sing is too good, look what it does to people in the link below :3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4GdGSnhr_c

mc-killa: It's a person with a name of a fruit, it's orange and it taste sweet... I forgot.... :*(

 

[ch33s3]

ICs vs Puff is horribly frustrating. One mistake costs you Nana because she'll get WoP'd right into oblivion, and Popo is sure to follow. If you can fight clean and keep Nana on you, there's no reason to lose, assuming you can actually chain the **** balloon, I think she has the second hardest timing in the game. Go play Glick to see what I mean <_<.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

All I ever did against Jigglypuff was camp with synched blizzards and that worked fine. There aren't any great Jigglypuffs in SoCal, though, so I'm no authority on this match-up.

 

[JigglyZelda003]

blizzard is annoying to JP, since it can be hard to get around. i think 5/5

but i can't say much since i haven't fought an IC worth mentioning.

 

[lain]

Who's the best Jiggs? Thinkaman? Bowyer?

Anyways, the matchup is 60:40 in IC's favor. Jiggs is one of the hardest characters to grab, and making multiple attempts to do so will only get you *****. It takes a lot of smart shield-release -> aerials to counter her air game (although don't bank on making too many), and like Fly said you just spam desynced blizzard and it's raep.

 

[HiddenBowser]

ehh... I'd say more like 65:35... although jiggs is really hard to grab, she can't get through blizzard and has pretty much the same range as IC's except for pound. I'd say it's a really freaking campy matchup and would probably push time a lot. Whoever gets a decent lead would probably win but I think IC's def have an advantage.

 

[Bnzaaa]

Fighting a good Jigglypuff can be frustrating.

Jigglypuff is pretty terrible on the ground. Its Jab comes out on frame 5 in has little range. It can be used to interrupt an attack. F-Tilt is pretty good speed. It comes out on frame 7, and has D-Tilt comes out on frame 10. It's pretty useless, as it doesn't set up for anything. Up-Tilt comes out on frame 11, and has Interrupted as Soon as Frames. It's a decent set up move most of the time.

Jigglypuff's smashes are slow enough that you can react to them. Down-Smash is it's fastest smash. The attack comes out on frame 14, and sends us out at a downward angle. When separated or as Sopo, this essentially means death if you are close to the edge and get hit by this. Up-Smash comes out on Frame 17. It has decent priority as it beats D-Air. Watch out for the boost smash. It slides surprisingly far, and it moves fast. F-Smash is its most powerful smash attack. It hits on Frame 16 and has good killing power.

Jiggypuff's Dash-Attack is worth mentioning. It comes out on frame 4, and can be used as a surprise kill move. In the Ice Climber's case, it will generally send us off stage and set up for a gimp kill.

Of course Jigglypuff will be in the air for almost the entire match. It's Jigglypuff's greatest strength and one of our weaknesses. Jigglypuff is the 2nd fastest character in the air. Its aerial acceleration is also really good, allowing it to weave in and out while attacking.

N-Air is a good move to knock us away. It has a deceiving hitbox as it reaches out pretty far in front, and its entire body acts as a hitbox. F-Air is disjointed and has good range. It comes out on frame 8, and is an excellent gimping tool. It also has kill power when unstated at higher percents. B-Air is weaker than F-Air, but it works the same as F-Air essentially. It can work as a wall of pain offstage. It can be used to approach on stage. It's quicker than F-Air and has less cooldown, so with good spacing it can link into itself numerous times. It also has less range. D-Air is a multi-hit move, that can split up the Climbers. It can cause tripping, and can still set up for a Rest attack or other moves. Up-Air juggles pretty well.

Jigglypuff's Rollout attack (Neutral B) has lot of knockback when charged. It moves fast and can kill early. Rollout is avoidable by jumping. Blizzard will always beat it out, so using a Blizzard wall protects you from Rollout. Side-B (Pound) has a lot of priority and lingers for long time. It pops the Climbers into the air. It also ***** shields (takes out half). Up-B (Sing) puts opponents to sleep. It has a small radius and only works when your in range on the ground. It can be canceled at the edge. It's useless move as it leaves it open to punishment.

Down-B (Rest) got nerfed in Melee, but still has its uses. It's Jiggypuff's quickest attack (frame 2.) It's still powerful (not nearly as powerful as N64/Melee though.) If you somehow manage to survive, a flower is left on your head, which does even more damage. It can kill around 70 or higher, and can be canceled by water. Rest also has invincibility frames for a little over half a second, and good Jigglpuff mains can interrupt an attack simply by resting you while you are attacking. Jigglypuff is left vulnerable for 3 seconds after initiating the attack, so if they whiff, it equals punishment. Also there's 2 Climbers, so the possibility of punishing is possible.

Jigglypuff has a good grab game, which is completely nullified by Nana standing by your side.

Offstage is a nightmare for the Ice Climbers in this matchup. It is most important to keep Nana by you. Jigglypuff ***** us offstage and it's too easy to Wall of Pain Nana. With Nana gone it makes it more difficult to dispose of Jigglypuff and get back onto the stage.

Jigglypuff generally lacks range. Our attacks have more range and priority, so it has to work around our attacks and avoid them as best as it can while dealing damage. Blizzard beats and outranges everything it can do. Jigglypuff is the lightest character in the game, so it shouldn't take much to get it into kill percent.

Grabbing Jigglypuff is extremely difficult, and you will lose if you try to spam grabs. If you do manage to get the grab, F-Throw works pretty well. For B-Throw and D-Throw's, the timing has to be tight or else you will mess up. You have to grab sooner than with the other lightweights.

Jigglypuff has a lot of stage advantages on us. Stages with low celings and areas where they can attack from below help them (Brinstar, Delfino, Halberd.) Stages like Japes and Delfino have water that can cancel their Rest. Jigglypuff doesn't die from the water easily on that stage and can eaisly gimp the Ice Climbers here. Frigate and Rainbow Cruise are also bad stages to go to against Jigglypuff. But the stage you should avoid the most is Norfair. With ledges everywhere, it will be hard to attack. Also it can attack from below the platforms easily. Final Destination and Yoshi's Island (Brawl) will work well against Jigglypuff.

This matchup is about even, probably 60-40 in Jigglypuff's advantage. We both have huge advantages and disadvantages against each other. Stage selection may give one character an advantage over the other, and Jigglypuff does better on more stages than the Ice Climbers do.

 

[Kage Me]

ICs vs Puff is horribly frustrating. One mistake costs you Nana because she'll get WoP'd right into oblivion, and Popo is sure to follow. If you can fight clean and keep Nana on you, there's no reason to lose, assuming you can actually chain the **** balloon, I think she has the second hardest timing in the game.

Single hardest, actually. It's small, light-weight and floaty, and has amazing DI abilities. Chaingrabbing nightmare.

 

[stoopdklutz]

Jiggles is hard to grab. I learned that yesterday. haha

 

[illinialex24]

50-50:

Here's a quote for the summary of a matchup discussion we just did:

The summary of the matchup: do not get grabbed. And Jigglypuff is one of the few characters that can essentially ensure this, as long as she spaces well using bair and rising dair spacing. Try to approach with a retreating bair, then rise over them with a dair and then mix up variations of this. However, they still have a few tools to deal with you. Blizzard, U-smash, and desyncs, especially with squall, can really wreck Jigglypuff. This is where dair becomes crucial, and so does bair. A well spaced bair beats out the Ice Climber's U-smash, and a dair can punish a desynced squall by allowing you to start racking up damage on Nana. Jigglypuff is probably one of the best at punishing a separated Ice Climbers. Once Nana is separated from Popo, go attack Nana. Do not go for Popo under almost any circumstance unless he really cannot do anything to avoid you. Remember Popo has an actual players skill and will air dodge and avoid you and be able to get to Nana much better than Nana can get to him. There are three ways really to hit the Ice Climbers. 1 is a hit that does not leave you vulnerable for a grab because you outspace their relatively poor grab range. These are mainly rising pound, dair, and bair. 2 is a move that attacks them while they are in motion and slightly desynced, so you will definitely hit one, meaning they cannot start a chain on you until very high percentages. Moves like this are pound, falling pound, fair, F-smash, and boost smash. However, be very careful doing these because if you underestimate the situation doing this, you will lose a life. The final move is one that gives enough shield knockback so they can't punish you. Unfortunately, Jigglypuff is relatively poor in moves here but next to the edge, F-smash and dash attack are both very viable. try to use a mixture of these attacks so you do not become predictable, which is one of the major reasons why people get grabbed. As for gimping the Ice Climbers, you really have to worry about their B-up. Because of this, always be ready to grab the ledge. Their normal recovery, which has very high priority, separates them if they don't auto cancel on the ledge. Use this to your advantage. Also, many will recover using a squall type recovery, where it takes longer and so if you try to edgehug, you will be stage spiked. However, their squall recovery can be stopped fairly easily with a dair or other aerial. So they will almost certainly mix up the two and try to punish you for one assumption. However, if they are below the ledge, you have one way of getting a fairly reliable gimp on them or at least separation. Just grab the ledge when you expect them to recover. If they use their B-up right then, roll onto the stage and try to punish them accordingly. However, if they use their squall, push away a bair and try to get separation like that. As far as stages go, the Ice Climbers need room to chain grab. They also don't like small platforms because it allows people to wait for the opportune moment to approach and avoid almost anything they can throw at you. Therefore, ban Final Destination on them. Its one huge area where you are forced to approach them and because of desynced ice blocks, no one can plank them here. Instead, go to Smashville and Jungle Japes and Norfair. Most Ice Climbers for some reason enjoy going to Smashville, so if you can make it your first stage do so. On Smashville, stand on the platform and wait until you get close to them before working in and out avoiding a grab. Then, when you are far from them, go back onto the platform and repeat. Its hard for them to approach you up there and even if they do, the ability to chain grab is greatly reduced. The same is true for Norfair, where the small platforms screw with their chain-grabs and overall approaches badly. Just stay on a top platform and you should be fine. On Japes, the edges are above and very small making it almost impossible for them to chain grab well, so go here and also try to gimp them into the water. Overall, these 3 stages are great counterpicks for you.

Sorry for the wall of text but its good info.

Oh yeah and don't think her grabs are worthless here. F-throw is fairly fast and so if you separate them at all or get an IC from behind, you can grab one and F-throw her before they have time to react properly. Kinda like how Snake's B-throw works really well on the IC's. If its fast, just throw it out immediately and you have the benefit of surprise.

 

[Funen1]

To illinialex24's post: The reason IC players like Smashville is because it plays a lot like FD. That lone platform may be there, but the ICs can just threaten with U-airs - even if they don't hit, proper maneuvering might force Jigglypuff off it. Granted, since she is so good at moving in the air, a good Jigglypuff player would try to prevent that from happening anyway.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

this week is DeDeDe...

spelled rong on purpose...

 

[Dev2000]

Piss and Piss easy imo just stay from a distance until he has enough lag from some attack Alt fthrow him to the ledge and then Dthrow Fair spike him jobs done

 

[FrozenHobo]

6:4 ICs. i'll post later why.

 

[lain]

65:35.

DDD has trouble getting away from IC's. DDD has excellent maneuverability and amazing moves that can split IC's up (inhale), but seriously he just can't get away from the ****.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

how do I kill D3 without the fthrow spike at the end of my chaingrab.....

 

[DMG]

how do I kill D3 without the fthrow spike at the end of my chaingrab.....

You infinite him to past 150% and then Usmash. Lol Fiction cmon, you have a pretty good IC's lol why you asking something like that? U know how to kill him.

 

[PKNintendo]

He wants attention.

 

[lain]

how do I kill D3 without the fthrow spike at the end of my chaingrab.....

I have the same query.

 

[Fly_Amanita]

I just turn around when I reach the edge with bthrow -> footstool -> ice block and then keep CGing him until I can KO with usmash.

 

[Hylian]

Guys, if you want to spike DDD then don't move nana forward after the dthrow to spike or just NT spike. If you just have nana stand in place and SH fair though she will spike him after your dthrow. If you make her move forward it won't spike.

I just bthrow footstool the entire time though lol. It's so easy and there arn't any grenades to worry about.

 

[meepxzero]

possible ddds worse match up lol.

 

[ignore the fire]

I just bthrow footstool the entire time though lol. It's so easy and there arn't any grenades to worry about.

This.
Just don't let him get you off the stage.

 

[Diddyknight]

ignore the time xD

wall of blizz and IB helps if they camp at edge

 

[MrEh]

Bowser boards are discussing the Ice Climbers.

And input would be appreciated. And yeah, we're screwed. ><

 

[Bnzaaa]

I'm personally not that good at this matchup, but I'll say what I think later.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

lets head on to kirby next:

so i might do a better summary for D3 if i get time to,in the mean time xP

oh, and i updated the chart.

 

[lain]

Kirby can't do **** against IC's. His range is laughable and is thus easily grabbable. He can't even approach either.

Kirby's only redeeming quality is being able to edgegaurd well.

6.5:3.5

 

[meepxzero]

yah kirby is pretty easy just stay the hell away from the edge against him cuz his swallowcide is really gay on ice climbers -_-. Chudat hates fighting me in tourney lol.

 

[momochuu]

I love fighting Kirby because BThrow chains are so easy. He really has no good moves that outrange them, and you can footstool him out of kirbycide sometimes. 60-40 matchup.

 

[FrozenHobo]

6-4. the only thing i don't like about his is that his fair doesn't change his aerial height and his dash clashes almost anything besides blizzard/squall. otherwise he's our *****.