Why i believe Olimar Beats MK 55:45

Atomsk_92 · Oct 27, 2008

Olimar has the ablilty to not let a character get near him. He is like falco in melee, when ever a situation gets grim you can resort to camping your projectile. MK can't really approach olimar, if he tries to dash in he gets grabbed, if he tries to camp above with dairs he gets up smashed or up b'd, if he tries to just camp olimar he gets veggies thrown at him and if he tries to tornado in he'll get grabbed. Olimar also has the ablitly to deal damage really quick and kill at relativley low percents. killing meta at mid 70s with a purple pikmin or late 80s early 90s with a red one is sorta gay. Plus olimars pivot grab CANNOT be punished. Early grab combos **** over mk as well because if it'll force MK to approach if he gets grabbed at the start of the match because he'll take somewhere from 43-52% in which case olimar can just camp him with retreating pikmin toss into pivot grab and if he tries to hover above he'll just get up smashed. Any grab you get on MK will automatically put him at a disadvantage because it will automatically allow you to camp him again and repeat the process of not letting him approach

Of course the factor of getting gimped is what makes many believe that MK wins
Any character can gimp olimar
but giving what is stated above theres no way olimar loses horribly if infact he doesn't win

SwastikaPyle · Oct 27, 2008

What if MK rises his tornado an inch off the ground to avoid the grab?

Mew2King · Oct 27, 2008

if MK tornados you just block it, then dash grab. Even if there's a platform, Olimar can usually retaliate with a fair. Olimar's shield is really good, and even if it wasn't, he could just angle his shield up to make shield stabbing even more unlikely. MK's good approach options become very minimal, limited, and easily gotten around. MK's best chance is to hope olimar messes up his camp, or to rush olimar when olimar doesn't have pikmin, and start a long edge guard / aggressive **** on him.

SwastikaPyle · Oct 27, 2008

Can I see vids of Atomsk's Olimar?

Pyronic_Star · Oct 27, 2008

mk can just out prioritze all of olimar's moves... if he aproaches from the air, its near impossible for olimar to hit mk assuming mk does everything perfect

Yawnbored · Oct 27, 2008

So you think he has an advantage on all stages or what? I'm a bit lost. :laugh:

So as long as you turn the match into cat and mouse you're good to go? Well that's good news for me at least... So it works like this?

You keep MK planted on the ground and then lob vegetables at him but keep some around so you don't get destroyed. Then if he tornados, you block (of course), and then shieldgrab-- makes sense, Olimar's arms are his friends--, of punish an airborne one with Fair? Drill rush is garbage so you could just grab that anyways... What about Up+B though? How do you stop that? Olimar's up +B? I suppose that could work. V-B doesn't matter because it sucks too, so all that's left are his standard A moves... How about MK's speed, can Olimar efficiently handle that without many problems (I know you said the advantage wasn't large, so is it just the fact that Olimar can do the above against him?)

Though, shouldn't this be 50: 50 if they can both dismantle one another so easily provided the circumstances are right?

I really hope Olimar is better than MK. Even if it's only by a little.

Atomsk_92 · Oct 27, 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAbDIT586v8

the rest of the grand finals[which first round inui won 3-2 then second round i won(either 3-0 or 3-1 if i remember correctly)should be up tomorrow] if Snakeeee puts them up lol XD

Pyronic_Star said:
mk can just out prioritze all of olimar's moves... if he aproaches from the air, its near impossible for olimar to hit mk assuming mk does everything perfect

news flash olimar's u-air out priorites every arial but ddd's d-air

Atomsk_92 · Oct 27, 2008

edit-double post =|

Rykoshet · Oct 27, 2008

Olimar is gay and atomsk is even moreso...

Ok I can't even hate that little spaceman is a beast.

Turbo Ether · Oct 27, 2008

This is good. I like when people find new ways to win, instead of giving up and crying on forums.

SwastikaPyle · Oct 27, 2008

I really think Inui could have won that match but I'm going to keep an open mind and wait for the others. You did camp very well.

Rykoshet · Oct 27, 2008

55:45 isn't exactly a "isn't capable of winning" advantage in the first place honestly.

Kyas · Oct 27, 2008

SwastikaPyle said:
What if MK rises his tornado an inch off the ground to avoid the grab?

This is possible, has been done, and renders one's attempt to grab MK out of tornado neigh useless.

These attempts to save him from the ban bucket amuse me.

asob4 · Oct 27, 2008

one word: dair

i swear that's the ONLY reason i lose to MK's

want me to post a vid of me getting 2-stocked by my friends MK? i usually beat any of his other characters

_voRg__ · Oct 27, 2008

turbo ether's sig is the mk cant be banned, if you ban him you gotta ban marth as well!

onto topic, olimar is an absolute beast

Zori · Oct 27, 2008

hmm this is interesting, Inuis meta is new, and you cant shift the match up off one match. Ever played olimar vs a meta knight that knew the match up? dear god. Olis camp in too good but meta's everything is good I think us olimar mains agree 50-50.

DanGR · Oct 27, 2008

Against MKs that don't know the matchup well enough, it's definitely pretty even. When the MK learns the matchup though, it leans in MK's favor.

edit: what zori said.

Pyronic_Star · Oct 27, 2008

uair does out prioritize... but mk's sh fair is to low for olimar to uair..... wait for it, wait... "news flash" <- gawd that sounds lame

Mew2King · Oct 27, 2008

if mk is able to approach you from the ground or short hops you aren't playing the match right

if MK approaches from the air all he can do that is good without lag is dair, and that's predictible and is not effective on olimar

if mk keeps getting away with tornado you aren't playing the match right, you can block it then dash grab every time, and fair them if they go on platforms.

if MK doesn't approach olimar has infinite pikmin to throw at him

MKs best chance is to rush olimar when his pikmin are low, which is done by mistakes olimar makes in the camping, and being able to follow up consistently and perfectly after that point

napZzz · Oct 27, 2008

Mew2King said:
if mk is able to approach you from the ground or short hops you aren't playing the match right

if MK approaches from the air all he can do that is good without lag is dair, and that's predictible and is not effective on olimar

if mk keeps getting away with tornado you aren't playing the match right, you can block it then dash grab every time, and fair them if they go on platforms.

if MK doesn't approach olimar has infinite pikmin to throw at him

MKs best chance is to rush olimar when his pikmin are low, which is done by mistakes olimar makes in the camping, and being able to follow up consistently and perfectly after that point

It seems like mk is fast enough and lagless to the point of where oli cant camp him at all.

I can see oli vs. mk on battefield as complete **** in mk's favor, or any other smaller stage maybeh.

DanGR · Oct 27, 2008

On paper, Olimar beats MK. How is Olimar supposed to deal with SHfairs? -easy, you just shieldgrab. what if he grabs you instead though? -you should have pivotgrabbed. Right? He could have done either one though. You've got a 50-50 chance of guessing the right one. It's not "he can just pivotgrab or shieldgrab. There's a degree of rock-paper-scissors to it.

Pivotgrabs- he gets closer to the edge every time he does it. You just fall back and approach again and again until he's near enough to the edge so that he can't pivotgrab anymore. That's how you deal them.

Dabuz · Oct 27, 2008

poor m2k, trying to say olimar counters mk as to not get him banned, sadly, the matchup is 60-40 in mks favor if he knows the matchup but im finding that lylat cruise seems to be the best stage for this matchup

also, when did atom start playing olimar? i thought he was a ddd/ lucario user

Mew2King · Oct 27, 2008

wow you're dumb, my friend made a post and I'm telling you guys from experience playing him in friendlies and tourney the things that he does against the things that i do. If you don't want to listen to me, then don't, but i advise you do, since it works.

IcyLight · Oct 27, 2008

Mew2King said:
wow you're dumb, my friend made a post and I'm telling you guys from experience playing him in friendlies and tourney the things that he does against the things that i do. If you don't want to listen to me, then don't, but i advise you do, since it works.

enough said. and if i'm not mistaken if you are having trouble vsing a person/character the way you play, isn't it the SMART thing to change your playstyle, if only temporarily?

Olimar for prez!

brinboy789 · Oct 27, 2008

dabuz said:
poor m2k, trying to say olimar counters mk as to not get him banned, sadly, the matchup is 60-40 in mks favor if he knows the matchup but im finding that lylat cruise seems to be the best stage for this matchup

also, when did atom start playing olimar? i thought he was a ddd/ lucario user

olimars best CP stage is norfair...no olimar crap recovery = top tier. olimar is a beast, only thing holding him back is his crap recovery. why dont you try to support your evidence that MK beats olimar. m2k + atomsk give evidence. you give "MK goes 60:40 with olimar. because i said so". it just doesnt work

IcyLight · Oct 27, 2008

keep in mind if you just ban norfair, where are his good counterpicks now? you can't just say "this level is his amazing cp and now he's flawless because of it" That's what stage bans are for. And don't even bring up corneria, most tournies, depending on region, allow 2 CP and 1 strike, and not to mention corneria isn't even allowed at all tournies. bring us to jungle japes if it's on and **** us there, no arguments.

Dabuz · Oct 27, 2008

brinboy789 said:
olimars best CP stage is norfair...no olimar crap recovery = top tier. olimar is a beast, only thing holding him back is his crap recovery. why dont you try to support your evidence that MK beats olimar. m2k + atomsk give evidence. you give "MK goes 60:40 with olimar. because i said so". it just doesnt work

ok, think about this then for evidence, maybe 60-40 is to far btw, MAYBE, mk outpriorites everything olimar has and is so fast that olimar doesn't always have a way to beat him in defense, norfair is good for oli somewhat but against mk who wrecks oli in air that stage is bad, which brings me to another point, once mk get olimar in the air olimar will either be juggled or take huge damage whistling through normally, often bringing him to kill %'s, and while a smart oli is hard to gimp mk can do it quite well against oli anyway, and oli's best stage, luigi mansion is great for mk making it actually a semi-bad stage in this matchup, mk in general can beat oli easily on his better stages, the only thing oli really has in this matchup is sheildgrabs which does not constitute being even with mk, and really, you don't play oli so you assume oli's recovery is garbage to a point here thats the reason he is mid teir i guess, well, learn and get good with oli and you will see just because oli has easier recovery on norfair doesn't mean its his best stage, especcially when it weakens his ground game majorly for the most part, also, im guessing you don't know the way this matchup goes because YOU bring no evidence to argue with and just say im wrong, likes its fact, get some matchup experience against good olis, learn the matchup then come back please

IcyLight · Oct 27, 2008

i find that just running away spamming pikmin on luigi's, transfering between top and bottom platforms, nulls any possibility of the MK tornado spamming you. It's a REALLY easy and predictable wall tech too, so just wall tech if he knocks you up and nair or dair him. IMO oli vs. mk, luigi's is better for the oli >_>

and to follow up on norfair... You are WAY better off on luigi's than norfair vs. mk. I have yet to beat a good MK on norfair, yet on luigi's i win 85% of the time. This all comes down to who knows their stages/matchups better. But believe me, norfair isn't all that it's meant to be for Oli. Hell, i'll even recommend it to be on MK's CP list against Oli.

SwastikaPyle · Oct 27, 2008

MK is a special case, because his aerials won't just destroy the pikmin, they will actually hit him. I want to see where this discussion goes, because it apparently could work.

I'm not a big fan of Inui either, though.

Olimarman · Oct 27, 2008

SHHHH STOP MAKING OLIMAR LOOK GOOD.

True, this matchup is far from in either's favor, but I think Olimar is one of the few that can actually take MK on. The most this can slide is 55:45 in either favor, but the few people that know this the better. Also, the fact that MK is so overused, and that Olimar is so underused adds to it. Olimars are learning how to play MK, where MKs still aren't playing as many Olimars as other characters. Tbh, I'd prefer to keep Oli underplayed.

DanGR · Oct 27, 2008

Mew2King said:
wow you're dumb, my friend made a post and I'm telling you guys from experience playing him in friendlies and tourney the things that he does against the things that i do. If you don't want to listen to me, then don't, but i advise you do, since it works.

I'm listening. (I really am hoping you're right about this stuff) You're not saying much that we don't already know though:
-MK can't do squat from above.
-he can have difficulty approaching from the ground because of Olimar's grab.

These have already been said. Yah know, a couple vids would help prove you guy's points. Ironic isn't it?

A couple reasons MK does well against Olimar:

-Upair presents MK with an attack that Olimar cannot get past when he's being juggled. He's too floaty to fast fall airdodge past it if the MK is using falling upairs, he can't DI away from it very well, and it's too fast for the SA in the whistle to negate the knockback. What's he supposed to do?

-Olimar has a relatively slow (prelag) grab with no grab armor. I'm sure you can figure this one out.

-He's got a great edge pressure game when Olimar is standing anywhere near the edge of the stage. Olimar has a lot of trouble dealing with it when he can't pivotgrab.

-MK's incredible gimp game versus Olimar's below average recovery- self-explanatory.

-He's MK. (everything that makes MK the best character in the game- awesome recovery, fast disjointed attacks with good range, near-lagless fsmash and dtilt, a great dsmash, great speed and quickness, many different options to choose from in almost every situation, etc...)

XienZo · Oct 27, 2008

DanGR said:
I'm listening. (I really am hoping you're right about this stuff) You're not saying much that we don't already know though:
-MK can't do squat from above.
-he can have difficulty approaching from the ground because of Olimar's grab.

These have already been said. Yah know, a couple vids would help prove you guy's points. Ironic isn't it?

A couple reasons MK does well against Olimar:

-Upair presents MK with an attack that Olimar cannot get past when he's being juggled. He's too floaty to fast fall airdodge past it if the MK is using falling upairs, he can't DI away from it very well, and it's too fast for the SA in the whistle to negate the knockback. What's he supposed to do?

-Olimar has a relatively slow (prelag) grab with no grab armor. I'm sure you can figure this one out.

-He's got a great edge pressure game when Olimar is standing anywhere near the edge of the stage. Olimar has a lot of trouble dealing with it when he can't pivotgrab.

-MK's incredible gimp game versus Olimar's below average recovery- self-explanatory.

-He's MK. (everything that makes MK the best character in the game- awesome recovery, fast disjointed attacks with good range, near-lagless fsmash and dtilt, a great dsmash, great speed and quickness, many different options to choose from in almost every situation, etc...)

I'm guessing he's saying that if you play Olimar right, AKA "perfect camping", you'll never have to deal with 1,3, or 4, or at least by the time you do, you should have done enough damage to MK to even it out.

It's the whole "Don't get hit" idea, but maybe Olimar can do that literally?

DanGR · Oct 27, 2008

XienZo said:
I'm guessing he's saying that if you play Olimar right, AKA "perfect camping", you'll never have to deal with 1,3, or 4, or at least by the time you do, you should have done enough damage to MK to even it out.

It's the whole "Don't get hit" idea, but maybe Olimar can do that literally?

If Olimar's "perfect camp" had no weaknesses and the MK player is having to depend on an error from the Olimar player to get in on the camp, then in theory, Olimar has a big advantage against MK.

I've said that he doesn't have a perfect camp though, and I'm still waiting for some vids that prove it.

B.A.M. · Oct 27, 2008

DanGR said:
I'm listening. (I really am hoping you're right about this stuff) You're not saying much that we don't already know though:
-MK can't do squat from above.
-he can have difficulty approaching from the ground because of Olimar's grab.

These have already been said. Yah know, a couple vids would help prove you guy's points. Ironic isn't it?

A couple reasons MK does well against Olimar:

-Upair presents MK with an attack that Olimar cannot get past when he's being juggled. He's too floaty to fast fall airdodge past it if the MK is using falling upairs, he can't DI away from it very well, and it's too fast for the SA in the whistle to negate the knockback. What's he supposed to do?

-Olimar has a relatively slow (prelag) grab with no grab armor. I'm sure you can figure this one out.

-He's got a great edge pressure game when Olimar is standing anywhere near the edge of the stage. Olimar has a lot of trouble dealing with it when he can't pivotgrab.

-MK's incredible gimp game versus Olimar's below average recovery- self-explanatory.

-He's MK. (everything that makes MK the best character in the game- awesome recovery, fast disjointed attacks with good range, near-lagless fsmash and dtilt, a great dsmash, great speed and quickness, many different options to choose from in almost every situation, etc...)

u just lost your credibility, dont talk about oli's grab as if it suxs. his pivot grab is one of the most dangerous things in the game. period.

DanGR · Oct 27, 2008

syonryoken said:
u just lost your credibility, dont talk about oli's grab as if it suxs. his pivot grab is one of the most dangerous things in the game. period.

lol. You're talking to the dude who made like 3 threads telling people to abandon everything they've learned in the past in order to master the pivotgrab. I know it's broken, and I know it has weaknesses. It doesn't have grab armor and it has more prelag than most grabs do. These ARE exploitable.

ShadowLink84 · Oct 27, 2008

Dangr got it before me

asob4 · Oct 27, 2008

oli's grab is great
it does have prelag and no grab armor
pivot grab helps, but it still has no grab armor!

also, to stop oli
sh dair, second hop dair

it wins

edit: dan you're fast

CO18 · Oct 27, 2008

I think oli has the advantage over mk too tbh.

I can consistently 2 stock my friends mk(which is rather good) with olimar, a char I rarely use but I just copy the olimar players I play like Fearless, hrnut, atomsk etc

meanwhile My dedede vs his mk are fairly close matches.

I cant even really go into detail about since i dont literally main olimar but its just my opinion.

asob4 · Oct 27, 2008

this match can be compared to the D3 match up

if D3 knows how to deal with oli, he has a chance of winning
if MK knows how to fight oli, he WILL win

XienZo · Oct 27, 2008

Well, the thing is, MK's main advantage is when Olimar is offstage. Olimar will never be offstage unless he is approached, broken through, punished multiple times, and then finally pushed off the edge.

Basically, if you count how much of an advantage they have over each other in the situations, MK should win. HOWEVER, MK doesn't get the massive advantage until he can get a good lead on the Olimar. Olimar has a decent advantage UNTIL MK gets a good lead. However, if the Olimar knows the matchup well, he can try to abuse his advantage so MK never gets a good enough lead % wise to translate it into stock-wise advantage.

Why i believe Olimar Beats MK 55:45

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