Ussi
Smash Legend
This used to be the "tier list" but in order to make this more useful, I shall list why these moves are so good/bad/average. This is in order of what moves are more useful than others. Its a work in progress
Oh yea, guys you think this new AT "Doop walking" will help Ike? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207154
It has to be smash stick, so that means no tilt sticking :\ but if Ike can do some good DW then maybe spacing ftilt will be even easier.
Updates:
11/21/08
Bair to Top tier from High by popular vote
Counter goes down to Low from Middle
Aether goes up
Bthrow and fthrow switched
11/24/08
Got locked and reopened
Changed The List to contain explanations of the move's greatness and flaws for Jab to ftilt
Add Dash Attack
11/25/08
Add description of Usmash
Made a reference list
12/3/08
Added description for Utilt, Dair, and bthrow
Put counter on the bottom of low
12/5/08
Added description for Uair, Dash attack, fsmash, eruption, and dtilt
12/19/08
Added the ratings
Legend:
Things in lime was written by Ussi
Things in Blue was said by Kirk
Things in red was quoted from Metroid
Safety: How relatively the move is save
Offense: How good the move is for offense
Defense: How good the move is for defense
Range: How good the reach is
Speed: How fast it comes out
Power: Knock back
Lag: Post lag (This includes IASA frames)
Top
Jab
This move is Ike's saving grace in a lot of situations. It's a GTFO move, it can be followed up, and is great to follow up with to abuse IASA frames or combo with nair. It can even be followed up by itself.
Jab canceling is a basic thing and probably the most technically useful thing for Ike. This is how you follow up to more jabs or tilts. Jab cancel to eruption/fsmash are just great lulz and good to catch people off guard. Oh and it combos into dsmash at a low percent.
Safety: 9
Offense: 9
Defense: 9
Range: 4
Speed: 10
Power: 3
Lag: 1
Nair
This move is great. But what makes this move a god send, is the fact it auto cancels. It's like the aerial version of jab. It has great follow ups either into utilt, jab, or bair for TRUE combos. This move lasts forever, so it does wonders against air dodges. It can chase rollers going away or hit them as they roll to you.
Safety: 9
Offense: 8
Defense: 9
Range: 6
Speed: 6
Power: 4
Lag: 1
Fair
This is what Ike stands for! His mighty range! This has the 4th largest aerial reach. Only outranged by Samus's zair, Link's zair, and ZSS's side B. It's hitbox is 200 degrees big (think circle). You can approach with this move generally by spacing it to the max. If you don't you'll be shield grabbed. When spaced to the max, you can abuse IASA frames before they can reach you.
Safety: 8
Offense: 8
Defense: 9
Range: 10
Speed: 5
Power: 6
Lag: 3 (in air its 10)
Bair
Fast, powerful, platform abuse awesomness, spammable at times, etc.. <3 Bair
Platform abuse branches off into being drop down bair or walk off bair. It auto cancels in a short hop. You can WoP with it! (Reference to Griever's combo video, Power Hungry)
Safety: 7
Offense: 7
Defense: 8
Range: 5
Speed: 9
Power: 7
Lag: 3
High
Ftilt
Great spacer and killer. Strongest ftilt in the game. Shut outs people's ground game who lack range. It can be angled up and down, however angled up does not have increased knockback as many other moves for other characters do.
Safety: 6
Offense: 7
Defense: 7
Range: 9
Speed: 5
Power: 8
Lag: 5
Usmash
USmash - Ike's most useful smash attack by far, bringing his sword up over his head and crashing down behind him. It's hitbox is easily the largest hitbox for any USmash, and the total area is quite possibly the largest in the game. In fact, if you stand under the center of Battlefield's platforms, USmash will hit the ENTIRE platform; there's no need to guess where opponents will roll if they're over you, just stand in the middle and charge the attack. It's a staple if you want to stop opponents who roll behind you, sidestep, or airdodge when you get under them. It starts hitting on frame 25 (25/60 seconds after you input "USmash"), stops on frame 33, and has 20 IASA (interruptible as soon as) frames, allowing you to trick opponents who aren't accustomed to fighting an IASA-abusing Ike. This move, if fresh, will kill starting at the 100%s for middle-weights and even lower for light-weights and does a hefty 17% uncharged. Learn how to use this move and you'll watch your opponent fly.
Usmash gains a total of 37% in power when fully charged. That means it'll kill middle weights at 63% fully charged (Project Vertical Kills). So its pretty nice when you bait someone with a charging usmash. The only problem is that when you charge moves you will die 20% earlier from a move's normal killing %.
Remember to hit with the back side so you aren't in too much lag since your foe will be in shield stun later than if you hit in the front. Also the backside outranges Marth's Counter, funny lol.
Safety: 3 (front side hit), 6 (back side hit)
Offense: 4
Defense: 9
Range: 5 (front side), 8 (back side), 10 (vertical)
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 6
Utilt
This is fairly fast, 13 frames to start it's hitbox. It has a lingering hitbox so it stops aerial approachs rather well. The sweetspot of utilt is nearly as strong as usmash. Only to kill 1% later. One of my favorites things to do is jab > utilt for the kill. Since the sweetspot is near strong as usmash, it's fairly good for killing at the 85%-115% (Use weight logic) You'd be surprise Ike's utilt is pretty strong. Still don't understand how a leg outranges a sword though...
Safety: 7
Offense: 7
Defense: 7
Range: 5
Speed: 8
Power: 7
Lag: 3
Dair
The 4h aerial strongest spike in the game. Overall 6th strongest spike (Ranking of Spikes). This move does well in it's job of spiking. My favorite thing to do with dair though, is hit people below me thru platforms. One of my most favorite things to do. It has a lingering hitbox, that sends up after the sweet spot is over.
Safety: 2
Offense: 5
Defense: 4
Range: 6
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 8
Middle
Bthrow
Bthrow has more combo ability than Fthrow.
Most I use this move for is because it looks cool and to throw people off stage. Sometimes I'll attempt to dair a person. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, depends on their reaction to bthrow.
Uair
This is the longest lingering hitbox Ike has. This will outlast any AD and has better effects on bigger characters since it's harder for them to get out of the way. It contains a ton of power and since its aerial it kills sooner than the usually utilt/usmash. Also to note, grounded tall characters can be hit with this move by FF it into them.
And remember to yell out ROFLCOPTER when killing someone with it.
Safety: 6
Offense: 4
Defense: 6
Range: 5
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 3
Dash Attack
Ike's Dash Attack covers a lot of distance. It's great for tech chasing however, if you miss or get blocked, you taking punishment. You can follow up a bthrow/fthrow with dash attack. Its depends on how they land on the ground. They need to go into landing lag otherwise they'll shield it. Dash Attack is a really important move when dealing with Olimar since it can strike him if he whiffed a grab or is throwing pikmin.
Safety: 5
Offense: 8
Defense: 0 [how the **** do you use this for defense???]
Range: 10
Speed: 6
Power: 4
Lag: 6
Fsmash
What Ike is known for! Killing mad early. This move, while very risky, is VERY REWARDING. However, don't spam it and hope someone will just trip into it. You must use MIND GAMES in order to be successful with this move. And well, I believe this move is a big part of Ike's utility as it strikes fear into people when it hits them. This move can make come backs. Say you are behind a stock and your foe is only 60%? Alright, whip out a fsmash on them and boom, the stocks are even.
But all this great things fsmash brings out, its not easy to do. People are not gonna roll into it or run into it. You have to really play tricks with the person. Fsmash is really really hard to set up in higher levels of play since people tend to have better habits and have better reactions than "OMG SPOT DODGE" repeatedly. Fsmash is an advanced Ike move. Beginners should not try using it.
Safety: 2
Offense: 2
Defense: 4
Range: 8
Speed: 3
Power: 10
Lag: 8
Eruption
The replacement of flare blade. Just a little fun fact, Ike's sword is not even fire based, it makes shockwaves to attack from FAR AWAY. Yea Ike's Rangell really has a PROJECTILE... however Sakurai is stupid and tried to quell angry Roy fan boys with this...
Eruption has Super Armor Frames meaning you take damage but no knockback. This move is used mainly for intercepting attacks and dealing back damaging. This is the strongest move in the game (Minus countering-like moves, ie. Bucket, counter, etc) but its not like people are going to walk into a chargin eruption. The only time you hit someone with heavily charged eruption is when you're edgeguarding. Recoveries that do not sweetspot are great to use this on.
Safety: 1
Offense: 1
Defense: 4
Range: 6-8
Speed: 2-0
Power: 5-10
Lag: 10
Dthrow
Fthrow
Low
Aether
Safety: 2
Offense: 2
Defense: 5
Range: 5
Speed: 4
Power: 1 , 3 (for a spike)
Lag: 7
Dtilt
I love dtilt. It's not that useful but it can play epic mind games on people. It shield pokes quite nicely, I've gone through nearly full shields with it just to hit the feet of the character. The taller/bigger the character the easier dtilt goes thru the shield.
It can also be used for spiking. Dtilt in fact is the 3rd strongest overall spike in the game. But also, the hit stun on dtilt is amazing (for brawl) however its not easy to follow up a dtilt.
Safety: 3
Offense: 3
Defense: 3
Range: 5
Speed: 6
Power: 8
Lag: 6
Dsmash
Safety: 2
Offense: 3
Defense: 4
Range: 5
Speed: 8
Power: 6 (first hit) - 7 (2nd hit)
Lag: 9
Quick Draw
Safety: 2
Offense: 1
Defense: 4
Range: 10
Speed: 9 (upon release)
Power: 3-7
Lag: 1 (whiffed), 10 (hit)
Uthrow
Counter
Safety: .....
Offense: 0
Defense: 3
Range: 7
Speed: 3 (For a counter move its slow)
Power: N/A
Lag: 8
What do you guys think? Any changes you would make? We as a community need to determine what moves are best for Ike.
Reference List:
Power Hungry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3eox2XCSLo (2:35-2:40)
Project Vertical Kills: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908
Ranking of Spikes: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830
Oh yea, guys you think this new AT "Doop walking" will help Ike? http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207154
It has to be smash stick, so that means no tilt sticking :\ but if Ike can do some good DW then maybe spacing ftilt will be even easier.
Updates:
11/21/08
Bair to Top tier from High by popular vote
Counter goes down to Low from Middle
Aether goes up
Bthrow and fthrow switched
11/24/08
Got locked and reopened
Changed The List to contain explanations of the move's greatness and flaws for Jab to ftilt
Add Dash Attack
11/25/08
Add description of Usmash
Made a reference list
12/3/08
Added description for Utilt, Dair, and bthrow
Put counter on the bottom of low
12/5/08
Added description for Uair, Dash attack, fsmash, eruption, and dtilt
12/19/08
Added the ratings
Legend:
Things in lime was written by Ussi
Things in Blue was said by Kirk
Things in red was quoted from Metroid
Safety: How relatively the move is save
Offense: How good the move is for offense
Defense: How good the move is for defense
Range: How good the reach is
Speed: How fast it comes out
Power: Knock back
Lag: Post lag (This includes IASA frames)
Top
Jab
This move is Ike's saving grace in a lot of situations. It's a GTFO move, it can be followed up, and is great to follow up with to abuse IASA frames or combo with nair. It can even be followed up by itself.
Jab canceling is a basic thing and probably the most technically useful thing for Ike. This is how you follow up to more jabs or tilts. Jab cancel to eruption/fsmash are just great lulz and good to catch people off guard. Oh and it combos into dsmash at a low percent.
Safety: 9
Offense: 9
Defense: 9
Range: 4
Speed: 10
Power: 3
Lag: 1
Nair
This move is great. But what makes this move a god send, is the fact it auto cancels. It's like the aerial version of jab. It has great follow ups either into utilt, jab, or bair for TRUE combos. This move lasts forever, so it does wonders against air dodges. It can chase rollers going away or hit them as they roll to you.
Safety: 9
Offense: 8
Defense: 9
Range: 6
Speed: 6
Power: 4
Lag: 1
Fair
This is what Ike stands for! His mighty range! This has the 4th largest aerial reach. Only outranged by Samus's zair, Link's zair, and ZSS's side B. It's hitbox is 200 degrees big (think circle). You can approach with this move generally by spacing it to the max. If you don't you'll be shield grabbed. When spaced to the max, you can abuse IASA frames before they can reach you.
Safety: 8
Offense: 8
Defense: 9
Range: 10
Speed: 5
Power: 6
Lag: 3 (in air its 10)
Bair
Fast, powerful, platform abuse awesomness, spammable at times, etc.. <3 Bair
Platform abuse branches off into being drop down bair or walk off bair. It auto cancels in a short hop. You can WoP with it! (Reference to Griever's combo video, Power Hungry)
Safety: 7
Offense: 7
Defense: 8
Range: 5
Speed: 9
Power: 7
Lag: 3
High
Ftilt
Great spacer and killer. Strongest ftilt in the game. Shut outs people's ground game who lack range. It can be angled up and down, however angled up does not have increased knockback as many other moves for other characters do.
Safety: 6
Offense: 7
Defense: 7
Range: 9
Speed: 5
Power: 8
Lag: 5
Usmash
USmash - Ike's most useful smash attack by far, bringing his sword up over his head and crashing down behind him. It's hitbox is easily the largest hitbox for any USmash, and the total area is quite possibly the largest in the game. In fact, if you stand under the center of Battlefield's platforms, USmash will hit the ENTIRE platform; there's no need to guess where opponents will roll if they're over you, just stand in the middle and charge the attack. It's a staple if you want to stop opponents who roll behind you, sidestep, or airdodge when you get under them. It starts hitting on frame 25 (25/60 seconds after you input "USmash"), stops on frame 33, and has 20 IASA (interruptible as soon as) frames, allowing you to trick opponents who aren't accustomed to fighting an IASA-abusing Ike. This move, if fresh, will kill starting at the 100%s for middle-weights and even lower for light-weights and does a hefty 17% uncharged. Learn how to use this move and you'll watch your opponent fly.
Usmash gains a total of 37% in power when fully charged. That means it'll kill middle weights at 63% fully charged (Project Vertical Kills). So its pretty nice when you bait someone with a charging usmash. The only problem is that when you charge moves you will die 20% earlier from a move's normal killing %.
Remember to hit with the back side so you aren't in too much lag since your foe will be in shield stun later than if you hit in the front. Also the backside outranges Marth's Counter, funny lol.
Safety: 3 (front side hit), 6 (back side hit)
Offense: 4
Defense: 9
Range: 5 (front side), 8 (back side), 10 (vertical)
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 6
Utilt
This is fairly fast, 13 frames to start it's hitbox. It has a lingering hitbox so it stops aerial approachs rather well. The sweetspot of utilt is nearly as strong as usmash. Only to kill 1% later. One of my favorites things to do is jab > utilt for the kill. Since the sweetspot is near strong as usmash, it's fairly good for killing at the 85%-115% (Use weight logic) You'd be surprise Ike's utilt is pretty strong. Still don't understand how a leg outranges a sword though...
Safety: 7
Offense: 7
Defense: 7
Range: 5
Speed: 8
Power: 7
Lag: 3
Dair
The 4h aerial strongest spike in the game. Overall 6th strongest spike (Ranking of Spikes). This move does well in it's job of spiking. My favorite thing to do with dair though, is hit people below me thru platforms. One of my most favorite things to do. It has a lingering hitbox, that sends up after the sweet spot is over.
Safety: 2
Offense: 5
Defense: 4
Range: 6
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 8
Middle
Bthrow
Bthrow has more combo ability than Fthrow.
Most I use this move for is because it looks cool and to throw people off stage. Sometimes I'll attempt to dair a person. Sometimes works, sometimes doesn't, depends on their reaction to bthrow.
Uair
This is the longest lingering hitbox Ike has. This will outlast any AD and has better effects on bigger characters since it's harder for them to get out of the way. It contains a ton of power and since its aerial it kills sooner than the usually utilt/usmash. Also to note, grounded tall characters can be hit with this move by FF it into them.
And remember to yell out ROFLCOPTER when killing someone with it.
Safety: 6
Offense: 4
Defense: 6
Range: 5
Speed: 4
Power: 8
Lag: 3
Dash Attack
Ike's Dash Attack covers a lot of distance. It's great for tech chasing however, if you miss or get blocked, you taking punishment. You can follow up a bthrow/fthrow with dash attack. Its depends on how they land on the ground. They need to go into landing lag otherwise they'll shield it. Dash Attack is a really important move when dealing with Olimar since it can strike him if he whiffed a grab or is throwing pikmin.
Safety: 5
Offense: 8
Defense: 0 [how the **** do you use this for defense???]
Range: 10
Speed: 6
Power: 4
Lag: 6
Fsmash
What Ike is known for! Killing mad early. This move, while very risky, is VERY REWARDING. However, don't spam it and hope someone will just trip into it. You must use MIND GAMES in order to be successful with this move. And well, I believe this move is a big part of Ike's utility as it strikes fear into people when it hits them. This move can make come backs. Say you are behind a stock and your foe is only 60%? Alright, whip out a fsmash on them and boom, the stocks are even.
But all this great things fsmash brings out, its not easy to do. People are not gonna roll into it or run into it. You have to really play tricks with the person. Fsmash is really really hard to set up in higher levels of play since people tend to have better habits and have better reactions than "OMG SPOT DODGE" repeatedly. Fsmash is an advanced Ike move. Beginners should not try using it.
Safety: 2
Offense: 2
Defense: 4
Range: 8
Speed: 3
Power: 10
Lag: 8
Eruption
The replacement of flare blade. Just a little fun fact, Ike's sword is not even fire based, it makes shockwaves to attack from FAR AWAY. Yea Ike's Rangell really has a PROJECTILE... however Sakurai is stupid and tried to quell angry Roy fan boys with this...
Eruption has Super Armor Frames meaning you take damage but no knockback. This move is used mainly for intercepting attacks and dealing back damaging. This is the strongest move in the game (Minus countering-like moves, ie. Bucket, counter, etc) but its not like people are going to walk into a chargin eruption. The only time you hit someone with heavily charged eruption is when you're edgeguarding. Recoveries that do not sweetspot are great to use this on.
Safety: 1
Offense: 1
Defense: 4
Range: 6-8
Speed: 2-0
Power: 5-10
Lag: 10
Dthrow
Fthrow
Low
Aether
Safety: 2
Offense: 2
Defense: 5
Range: 5
Speed: 4
Power: 1 , 3 (for a spike)
Lag: 7
Dtilt
I love dtilt. It's not that useful but it can play epic mind games on people. It shield pokes quite nicely, I've gone through nearly full shields with it just to hit the feet of the character. The taller/bigger the character the easier dtilt goes thru the shield.
It can also be used for spiking. Dtilt in fact is the 3rd strongest overall spike in the game. But also, the hit stun on dtilt is amazing (for brawl) however its not easy to follow up a dtilt.
Safety: 3
Offense: 3
Defense: 3
Range: 5
Speed: 6
Power: 8
Lag: 6
Dsmash
Safety: 2
Offense: 3
Defense: 4
Range: 5
Speed: 8
Power: 6 (first hit) - 7 (2nd hit)
Lag: 9
Quick Draw
Safety: 2
Offense: 1
Defense: 4
Range: 10
Speed: 9 (upon release)
Power: 3-7
Lag: 1 (whiffed), 10 (hit)
Uthrow
Counter
Safety: .....
Offense: 0
Defense: 3
Range: 7
Speed: 3 (For a counter move its slow)
Power: N/A
Lag: 8
What do you guys think? Any changes you would make? We as a community need to determine what moves are best for Ike.
Reference List:
Power Hungry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3eox2XCSLo (2:35-2:40)
Project Vertical Kills: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=156908
Ranking of Spikes: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=199830
