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While I see what you're saying here, adding stale moves to Smashes doesnt seem...necessary (at least imo). Its not like anyone is going to sit there and spam a Smash, and if they do so effectively and are not being punished by their opponent, then something is wrong.
i dont just mean smashes though, any moves that is primaraly used for killing- falcons knee, ganons dair, zeldas side b, TL up air etc, these moves should also have a stale move factor them. however combo moves such as fox's uptilt, shieks ftilt, falcons nair etc should just be affected by the stale %, so that they can still combo. grabs should be unaffected by stale moves as well. i hope this is possible in coding, would offer another way of balancing characters as well (such as MK's shuttle loop, dair etc)
Is it possible to look into Normal Brawl's stale move system, and edit it to exclude knockback?
The thing is, knockback stale DIDN'T balance anything at all. It hurt and held back characters. It was one of the main fundamental problems of Brawl. Knockback stale would only make matches last longer than they already do (even if it is for specific killing moves). It would punish you for using a KO move.
wouldnt have to be all kill moves, jsut the spamable ones, such as kirbys fsamsh, fox's upsmash, falcons knee etc. things like spikes, wolfs bair, samus' fsamsh etc could all just be left alone. im not saying all kill moves should go stale, but some like MK's up b might be better off with that limitation, and let them look at other alternatives to kill. only a few moves i think should be affected, and that very close analysis should be taken before using it on a character.some characters like sonic who have a really hard time killing should not have any stale moves, of course.
I thought some cooldown lag was added to Kirby's FSmash. Fox's USmash being affected by the Stale move syst. would't make much of a difference since he can combo into it with Dair. Falcon's Knee? He usually has to set you up to have a chance to nail you with it via throw, Nair, Uair, ect. He cant just fly at a good opponent with it on a whim thanks to his low overall priority.
His UpB already lost a lot of it's kill potential. If it were to be nerfed more, it's trajectory may just be made more vertical I think. There's still seems to be no need to implement stale moves on certain kill moves...
Not just for spamming moves, the following:
Why not just fix the specific moves that need to be toned down, because it is only a problem for certain moves on certain characters? A blanket mechanic, which is inherently anti competative, is a bit of an overreaction. For example, marth's utilt is not a rediculous damage builder, while fox's utilt is. Treating them both in the same way is a bad solution to the problem.
Because allowing moves to do the same damage every time is kinda ... ridiculous? Example: Fox's Utilt doing 6% every time accumulates, if he does it 2-3 times with his Utilt doing 6% every time it will do a total of: 2 times would be 12% and a third time would be 18%. For every three Utilts, he would do 18% every time, that's a little too good. Lowering it even further isn't the right way to go either. We'd have to lower it so it does 3% on every hit and I don't think that's the right way to solve things.
Actually...it is.
This.
Ultimately you're still indirectly rewarded for taking a hit. Also, what if I want to use a KO move for other purposes than actually getting a KO? Getting punished for trying to take advantage of the versatility of moves and restricting options is kinda like the opposite of competitive.
I have an idea! Let's make the spammy moves less spammy by making them less spammy! Novel, isn't it? Making a naturally spammy move worse by making it worse instead of nerfing all moves through a universal mechanic... You don't need to discourage people from using their standard moves through the use of an arbitrary mechanic like stale moves. If a character uses almost exclusively one move to win, then perhaps the character was designed poorly to begin with, and needs to be looked at for changes. But there's nothing wrong with players using their good moves when the situation arises, which just so happens to be very often. It's just a player utilizing a good option at that point in time. They shouldn't be punished for knowing how to use their character. Stale moves ultimately punishes you for existing.
There's nothing wrong with that, since they're actually successful in landing that move. It's the other player's fault for getting hit by the same thing over and over. No stale moves rewards success (landing attacks) ; stale moves rewards failure (getting hit).
I don't disagree. I'm well aware that knockback staling is impossible in Brawl+, for the reasons I just said. When I mentioned Sheik's ftilt and Marth's side-B, I meant that those moves specifically need to be fixed, which I'm pretty sure is what you just implied too.
The game has to keep track of your moves, somehow. As long as it denotes what move is what (ie. upB, downB, sideB, or neutral B), couldn't you just use those IDs for the code?
Although it was in different forms, stale moves was in both Smash 64 and Melee
Elaborate. I never heard of this!
Melee's stale moves affected only damage, and not knockback so it wasn't really noticeable.
