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Peach Weekly Match-Up Rediscussion: Falco

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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As the number of characters left to discuss in the Peach Weekly Match-Up Discussion thread begins to dwindle, I've have decided to start up topics for rediscussing characters who I feel may need to be covered again. This is primarily due to potential changes in the match up, new discoveries, new tactics and how they may have affected the match up. Also, for some characters, because they were discussed a long time ago, they may be out of date

Now because I can't trust some of you on this board, I'm going to copy/paste these rules on all of these rediscussion threads:

-SUPPORT YOUR CLAIMS WITH EXAMPLES/EVIDENCE/THOUGHT/VIDEO. Do not say "Snake beats Peach" or "Peach owns Wolf" or something out of the blue without explaining why, you are just wasting thread space. Keep intelligent discussion.

-We are here to learn, not fight. We're all trying to become better Peach players, so please don't get into over heated discussions - learn and be reasonable.

-This thread serves two purposes. A) To determine how the matchup goes for Peach. B) To determine how to handle the matchup. So not only post why you think it goes (see guideline below), but post strategies and what you do that works.

-Feel free to add really good tactics you discover of a character already discussed. New tactics are helpful and don't think just because its already been discussed not to add anything, or we will never get better information on the matchup as the meta game progresses!

- PLEASE let me know if you want me to highlight anything from the thread discussion into that respective character's "summary" on this page. I'm not always sure whats the best advice and whats not so help point it out to me for me to highlight

- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say

I wish I didn't have to feel the need to do this as it clusters up the OP of each of these topics and someones going to have a cry about me putting this but sadly, I can't trust some of you. I don't care about personal feuds or the like. Keep the discussion match up related ok?

Now that's out of the way...this rediscussion will be dedicated to:

Falco

Hey, Einstein! I'm on your side!
 

Eddie G

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~KBizzle

I've played Kismet and some other solid Falcos a lot so I'll try to help in getting us started:

What not to do

1. Do not rely too heavily on floating in this matchup from a distance; That will result in the Falco stepping up his laser camping and will result in you taking unnecessary damage.

2. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT rely on the forward glide toss in this matchup unless he is already off of the stage and you're just trying to close the gap in order to edgeguard. You will eat a reflector/nair/dair 90% of the time.

3. Do not hesitate to use her fair in this matchup; This is one of those matchups where you need to close the gap between your characters before they rack up too much projectile based damage. Fair's range and priority are too reliable in out-spacing Falco from mid to close quarters, so if you need to use it, use it. His recovery is gimpable enough with turnips and nairs to worry about not making her fair stale.

4. This is very general but...don't be predictable. This applies to approaching, retreating, edgeguarding, you name it. Falco's game is solid enough without giving him the edge of reading you like a book, so keep the player guessing as much as you can.

5. Don't ever overestimate her airdodge. Falco's nair will eat right through any silly airdodge attempts at close quarters. However, her airdodge is precious in avoiding a dangerous hit such as with his bair, or avoiding potential laser damage. Use it wisely.

6. Don't ignore that his u-tilt and u-smash are large threats to her air game when she's closing in.



What you should do/what can work

1. You can try baiting a missed reflector from the Falco by intentionally tossing a turnip and float over the reflector to close the gap/punish with a dair.

2. Once you are in mid-close range, Peach's dash attack is a dependable choice. Throw some of those in there once in a while to keep the Falco on edge; Not too much though or you will get grabbed, and getting grabbed by Falco is a no-no.

3. You want Falco in the air as much as possible, this is where Peach has the advantage. This isn't recommended for regular use but if you absolutely must get Falco in the air, an u-throw would suffice. From here you can take charge with a plethora of options such as nair (for punishing airdodges), u-tilt, u-smash (in some cases), or you can bait landing aerials to create pivot grab opportunities. Also remember to pressure him with turnips while airborne, as with most matchups.

4. I believe Peach can d-throw chaingrab Falco for a short bit, but I forget what the exact percent is that he can pop a dair out before he is re-grabbed. In any case, you can fool the Falco into thinking you'll be going in for a re-grab, and bait the aerial for yet another standing pivot grab opportunity.

5. Once you're in close, you can perform a floating dair above the Falco's shield and lead to another dair out of the second jump to bait and punish an OoS aerial that he may perform and still hit him from above. It's a good option for dealing with his pesky nair/dair attempts.

6. I can't stress enough how important Peach's nair is for edgeguarding Falco. It has absolute priority over his phantasm as long as your timing isn't totally off. The Falco player will use phantasm to recover more often than not due to his firebird being a riskier option that travels a shorter length. You can also z-drop turnips to intercept a phantasm recovery. Keep this in mind and the Falco should be in serious trouble once you get him off of the stage.


There's more, but I'll let some of our other players contribute. I hope this helps.

P.S. I tech chase in most matchups with a float canceled Fair, but I'm just sexy like that. <3​

~Midwest Represent!
 

M@v

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^ Peach can Dthrow chain spacies in general until about 40%
You downthrow-turn around in place-regrab-repeat.
 

Praxis

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Peach can escape Falco's chaingrab due to her floaty nature.

This is one of her worst matchups IMO. Not MK bad. Honestly I kind of lean towards 65:35 Falco's favor but I think 60:40 is accurate because Peach completely demolishes Falco on her counterpicks.

65:35 on neutrals, even on certain counterpicks (or even Peach advantage?), 60:40 overall.

I know that sounds extreme, but hear me out.

On paper, Peach appears to **** Falco. She can CG him to 30% then ftilt to 40%. He can't dthrow CG her. Her turnips, nair, and usmash can all **** his side-B recovery, a turnip offstage = a kill, and if he falls below the stage lip and has to up-B, it's a free edgehog kill since you can float against the stage lip and release right before he hits you.

But at high levels of play, Falco dominates the matchup. His camp game is what really destroys Peach. It's not that the lasers are unbeatable- it's Falco's ability to force Peach to approach, dictate Peach's approaches, then predict and intercept them that gives him a big advantage here.

His ftilt demolishes autocancelled aerial approaches such as short hop fair. His laser game destroys float. His reflector prevents you from glide tossing as he lands. His lasers stop you from floating. While normally the answer to all of this is to simply bait and not be predictable, his excellent camp game will force you to approach or take damage.

The Falco has to lay down a perfect camp game, which he can use to predict and punish you, which is why I say this is a significant Falco advantage at high levels.

If the Falco is aggressive, this matchup is really easy- CG him, punish his approaches (because Peach has an answer to all his approaches), get him offstage and gimp him by uthrowing turnips and intercepting his recovery with SH nair.

On neutrals, Falco's ability to camp you is incredibly frustrating. On your counterpick, however, you can pick stages that prevent him from doing this. Most Falco's will ban Rainbow Cruise, which is probably your best choice- he can't camp you on a stage that is constantly moving, and Peach has a mobility advantage here. Also, most Falco's will practice on this stage. A secondary counterpick is Brinstar, where the uneven terrain messes up his SH laser timing and the pillars provide laser cover and acid forces him to drop his camp pattern. The moment Falco loses his ability to camp you, you've got it.

My primary experience with this is with SoCal's best Falco, DEHF, who is the best Falco as far as I'm aware. We played in tournament at BIO2. He two stocked me on Battlefield, then I two stocked him on Brinstar, then he two stocked me on Final Destination. It's worth noting that his view on the matchup is 60:40 as well.


So, my view is 60:40 Falco's favor (40:60 Peach). Take it or leave it. :)
 

Sky`

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Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise


45-55.

/thread Imo.​


Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
 

Eddie G

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Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise


45-55.

/thread Imo.​


Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
~KBizzle

That sounds about right to me. I can settle for that.

~The Gifted Unknown
 

ExCeL 52

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I'm going to have to agree with the 45-55 statement in Falco's favor.

Everything that you need to know about this matchup has already been said. Falco is one of my strong secondaries and I've played strong Peaches and I feel as though I always have a slight advantage...Vice versa when I'm playing as Peach.
 

Sky`

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Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise


I go even with DEHF in Friendlys sometimes.

But other times, I just get Scraped.

This isn't Even, or in Peaches Advantages. I'd go as far to say 60-40, but maybe that's pushing it too.​


Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
 

Canvasofgrey

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60:40 For Falco in my opinion.

Then again, this is said with my inexperience against Falco, so when I do face against them, I tend to eat it while putting up a good fight. Getting to him is really hard. But once you do, Peach wrecks havoc.
 

BentoBox

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60:40 Falco's adv, imo. Praxis said everything.

No matter what, you're the one approaching, and he has tools to deal with all your options.

Pick Wario :D
 

Eddie G

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Haha, I suck with matchup discussions. I sound more like some sort of strategy guide. XP

~The Gifted Unknown
 

Villi

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Hey, how long is Falco stunned for when you chain grab him? Cuz I wonder if you can chain grab him to the ledge and then dtilt spike him.
 

Eddie G

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Stun? Lolwut.

Just kidding, I'm not too sure to be honest.

~The Gifted Unknown
 

Praxis

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Hey, how long is Falco stunned for when you chain grab him? Cuz I wonder if you can chain grab him to the ledge and then dtilt spike him.
You can CG him to the ledge, but he can jump before he falls below Peach's waste height, so I don't believe a dtilt spike is an option.
 

Canvasofgrey

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You can CG him to the ledge, but he can jump before he falls below Peach's waist height, so I don't believe a dtilt spike is an option.
Editted Praxis. I'm kind of a grammar Nazi these days. XD

I don't think a Dtilt Spike is possible, though I did happen to do a Dsmash after CG againt Falco sometimes since they don't run away all the time, for some reason or another. -.-;

I'd just be safe and Utilt.
 

Villi

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Nah, he's able to act before you can waste him. Legit.

Edit: Ok, what about this. Turn around jab to stuff his double jump before he gains any height. You'll know you did it right when you see double jump ripples but you still hit him. Maybe he'll fall into your dtilt then. I don't have the game anymore so I can't test out my kooky ideas myself. @_@

But heck, if you could do that double jab leads to an easy edge guard, too. Then, when they're afeared to double jump, dtilt spike them. lolz
 

Dark.Pch

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Dark.Pch says: 50-50

The Good: Falco is terrible off the stage, and not hard to keep him out. his Up-B does not go as Far as Fox. So most of the time, he has to F-B to the stage. Now this you can take advantage of with ground floater Nairs or Bairs. (If your timing is Godly, Fairs) Falco lags when shotting lazers on the ground, and they come out slower on the ground than in the air, due to how he gets in that fancy pose to shoot. Falco, can't kell you too well. His Solid Kill move is his Fsmash, and even that does not get the job done unless its a critical hit. Upsmash wont be killing you till like maybe 120+ Same with Dsmash. Around those numbers. When ypou keep the pressure on falco, he can't use his lasers, and you can run all over him and eat that shield. he is not all that quick nether, so you can keep up with him. You can snipe him off of his recoverey with turnips. Both F-B and U-B. He can't chaingrab brab you. Once he down throws you at low %, just Nair. You do this and falco can NEVER chain grab Peach at all. His next best option would be a dashattack to upsmash. But you can chaingrab him to mid %.

The bad- Falco can screw both your air and ground game while moving in. Since he does not lag touching the floor while shotting lasers, he can keep doing it while retreating or moving in. This also mkes it hard for you to get turnips. And if he wanted to be an azz, he can F-B to the other side if he is cornered and repeat the process. His reflector stays in affect even when it goes back to falco. I'm sure people got hit with thier own turnips or w/e once falco has but his relfector away. And then at that same time, he can whip it out again. So He seriously can not be touched with a projectile this way. That Fsmash he has is killing you quick, even from behind. When comming back to the stage, falco can screw up your second jump and you can't float or shoot you out of it. Falco can Jump pretty high. he can set you up this way to keep you out or hit you with an air attack for the K.O Bair could do it of an up-air. Also a Dair but that not somthing to rely on. But trust me, you dont wanna get hit with that move at high damage. More damage you have, the harder it is to metor cancel to recovery/break out the stun. And that move launches you fast. Falco is kinda hard to kill due to how heavy he isand peach having trouble killing in general.

Style to use: Aggressive

What to do: I hear this all the time from people. the dang lasers screwing them up and stuff. I'm gonna be honest, and none have to agree, but I think this is true. Reason so many arebowing down to falco is cause they can't deal with his lasers or don't have much of a ground game. People are mostly about the air and Falco just shuts that down. But don't know how to fight on the ground well. Peach's air game is godly thus of course people would focus on that more with the dair combos or w/e and forget to tighten up other stuff that Peach has. Falco is a lesson learned. to have both air and ground game. learn how to get them both up equally. Not just be good at one and fail at the other.

Lets get this out the way, his lasers. Time to shut that **** down. When he lasers you:

- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to him.
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float

"What, then wtf are we suppose to do then, how do we get to falco, you are crazy!"

Maybe I am but if you do this you will get hit with lasers and take damage not needed or could be avoided. So how to get close to falco and top him from using lasers? Run to falco, and shield or if you are good at it (which is not that hard) power shield the lasers. and run or crouch under the air laser. I would say you can put up a turnip on the air shotd laser but I think the ground one would hit you before the turnip animation is over with. Thest it. if you can get a turnip under the air shot laser, then sweet, you have a way to get turnips and get close. Now contunie this process till you get close. Once you get close, falco has NO CHOICE but to stop with the lasers, for he will be open for an attack. Once stopid falcos shoot lasers so close to you. they are asking to get hit. Do this every time you wanna get close to falco. This is how you get close to falco and shot down his laser game. Also if you don't feel like stopping and powershielding his lasers, when getting close to him, instant float to Nair his ground lasers. Nairs can't cancel his lasers.

Ok, now his lasers are out of the way, about 50% of his game is shot down. Now For falco fighting you in general, close combat. when you get close to falco and get him to stop with the lasers, this is your chance to get your air and ground game in. Short hop Dairs alot on falco, it messes up alot of his stuff and you can kieep him in place and follow up with a Nair. Short hop nairs is so godly with Peach, people seriously need to use this move and not float all the time to air attacks. mix it up. peach floating to Dairs or w/e is so typical and peple know how to punish/get ready for it. So mix it up and give them a nasty surprise. You can also Nair him if you are close to his face like that when you get close to falco. Or space Fairs.

Falcos would likely jab to D-B/ So with his jab you can do 2 Things:

- DI behind him and bair air him.
- DI away and shield the D-B. Not sure how much shield stun that move has but maybe you can attack out of shield and get him. Run out of it as well to a dash attack. (since shield stun in this game is nearly garbage)

if you Go to falco from the air with a turnip, sometimes, they will think you will toss it, so they will pull a relfector. This is where you get them. Fair them, thats a free hit for you. So it is best that if you go to them or if floating to them, that you don't usually throw the turnip. But this depends on how scared or obvious the falco is, so this is on you to figure out and tell with.

Falcos F-B is not really much of an option most of the time to recover. it does not give him much distance. It's pretty much a good game when he tries to do that. its easy to snipe him and knock him out of it. also, you can just go and toad it if you can reach him in time. So next best thing is his Side-B. And I already explain how to deal with that. Turnips can make you force him how he has to recover. (On stage or aim for the age) so just dont tosse turnips aimlessly just to toss them. Aim for him. The moment you aim for him, he has to be on the defense within his recovery, which is hard to do, thus, you Kinda force him to recover to the stage or the edge depending where he is out of the stage. From here you time an edgehog, or an air attack if he aims for the stage. also if your timing is good, time a F/Usmash and its a good game.

Falco can uptilt you out of shield if you pound his shield with Dairs. So what you have to do is dair it and then ether move behind him to a bair or Pull back a lil if you don't hit him with the move. if you pull back, you can land before the move if done, and Nair him for more spressure or if he drops his shield. or shorthop dairs if he rolls to you. Can also space a fair if he rolls to you. See how spacing is so importnat with Peach and leads to great things. get your pacing up there boys. it does so much damage. More than people thing.

Uptilts break his Dairs. Done right, Falco can not go through your Uptilt with his Dair. Falcos might also pull the D-B in the air, so be careful when you jump and toss a turnip. Falco will just jump with you and D-B. He can also do this to kick you out of your float. should have said this in the bad section, but least you know. This is all mindgames and guessing but you can toad that. Or run under him and get a free hit. Falco is a sitting duck once he D-B's in the air.

When you pressure falco, he has no choice but to roll. This is where you shorthop dairs or space bairs/Fairs. Really if you have him in a corner. Also some might be concerned if falco tries to F-B to the other side of the stage if you get close while he lasers. You can stop this but getting close then pulling back. that way whenhe F-B, you are abaout in the same spot where he would land on his F-B, and he lags, so thats about a free hit for you. of it you have quick reaction/reflexes, instant foat to a Nair on the ground or jump to a Nair and get him in the air if he does it like that. Pull back a lil when you do this as well so in case you don't hit him, you are right there when he lands, and then you beat his azz.

If falco aproaches you with lasers. Crouch the air shotted lasers and try to power shield the grounded ones and then you can reliate with a Nair or Bair. Dair too if possible. The air shoted lasers give you a chance to get a turnip. Dont roll or side step too much. You will get punished for it bad. really when pined to a corner. cause you have no choice but to roll foward. Then if you roll back......that is just stupid. You wont go anywhere, You better off sidestepping. The side step is faster and endes sonner than her roll.

When comming to the stage, Try to recover high as you can. Soon as you get lauch, dont jump. Don't float. Momentum cancel to a F-B. Do this 2 times and you should be right ovet the stage. Falco won't be hitting you with lasers like this. And if you some how get hit while landing you, still have your other recovery options cause you did not burn your jump, toad or float.

If you can't somehow recover high, when falco is shotting you,don't burn you jump, float or toad. if you can sneak a F-B to the stage, do it. that makes you closer to the stage. And try to recover low. No lasers can hit you like that and it be to risky for falco to go downthere and hit you. But if you get hit while returning, at a certain distance from the stage, thats when you can use your jump and float.Even toad if you are smart with it. those are your last resorts to getting back on the stage. that means falco went through all that crap and yet...you still have recovery options to make it back and can too.

You can airdodge some lasers to help you out but remember, her air dodge is crap. so becareful with it. some points just eat like 2 lasers when returning. DON'T GET HIT WITH JUST ONE AND GET ALL SCARED AND JUMP OR FLOAT. People do this alot then you get hit in the middle of all that and then you can't recover well and be set up for death. Thats why you don't burn your recovery options early, just incase crap like this happens.



Think thats about all I can think about for falco. De que diablo. Took me about an ahour to do this.
 

Razmakazi

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err...falco isn't heavy dp, he's one of the lightest ppl in the game. <_________<

i like your post in general 'cept for the weight comment and the match-up ratio though. lol.
 

deepseadiva

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So, I think we've gotten past the fact Falco can't chaingrab us. That's nice and all.

But do we have any options against throw followups...?
 

Dark.Pch

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err...falco isn't heavy dp, he's one of the lightest ppl in the game. <_________<

i like your post in general 'cept for the weight comment and the match-up ratio though. lol.
If he is light then good, you can maybe kill him better than he can to Peach. And after all I just said, I still can't see why you guys still think he has the advantage........de que diablo. I went into Detail as much as I possible could, and it shows, match up is even. From what I read here,my post covers just about all of it for thinking falco has the advantage.

But do we have any options against throw followups...?
What do you mean excatly?
 

deepseadiva

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What do you mean excatly?
As in throw -> everything. Falco's options after the throw launch. I don't recall exactly what those are though...

Anyway, how would this match work if we planked...? Isn't that the big reason the MK v Falco match is on MKs favor?
 

Dark.Pch

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As in throw -> everything. Falco's options after the throw launch. I don't recall exactly what those are though...

Anyway, how would this match work if we planked...? Isn't that the big reason the MK v Falco match is on MKs favor?
At low to mid %, Falco would usually Dthrow to Dsash attack cancel, upsmash since he can't change grab you. If he throws you up, only thing he can do is hit you will lasers as you try to land and get some damage off. Same with a baitr throw.

And I don't know much about planking. Or him Vs Meta. But I saw my friends Ike Plank a camping Falco and three stocked him. Falco does not really have any options for planking. Anything he does would lead to his death.
 

Razmakazi

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when i use falco vs. peach i go dthrow > dair > pivot jab > grab > dthrow > dacus or dair or double laser usmash or w/e. so i'd say be careful when the falco tries to reset ur position with the jab so he can regrab also watch where u roll or when u get up if u get hit by dthrow/dair or by a sweetspotted dair onstage in general b/c you cud easily eat a spaced fsmash.
 

hiROI

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when i use falco vs. peach i go dthrow > dair > pivot jab > grab > dthrow > dacus or dair or double laser usmash or w/e. so i'd say be careful when the falco tries to reset ur position with the jab so he can regrab also watch where u roll or when u get up if u get hit by dthrow/dair or by a sweetspotted dair onstage in general b/c you cud easily eat a spaced fsmash.

Peach has a DACUS?
 

Canvasofgrey

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Not that I'm aware of. Though I do admit of spending some time trying to find it she does..

I think he means a hyphened-Usmash.

Ugh, I got my butt kissed so bad my Nyjin. He three stocked me the first match, then 2 stocked me. XD

I can't really deal with a Dash attack Usmash, and getting around his lazers are so annoying. (Wolf lazers are still worse in my opinion)
 

Eddie G

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Lol I wish she had a DACUS.

Imagine: MK is in the air halfway across the stage and he starts up a nado (for reasons unknown), you slide in from underneath with her sexy u-smash.

You: Nado? lolwut.
 

Dark.Pch

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Not that I'm aware of. Though I do admit of spending some time trying to find it she does..

I think he means a hyphened-Usmash.

Ugh, I got my butt kissed so bad my Nyjin. He three stocked me the first match, then 2 stocked me. XD

I can't really deal with a Dash attack Usmash, and getting around his lazers are so annoying. (Wolf lazers are still worse in my opinion)
If you just do what I said about his lasers, its not that big of a deal. Just look at what I said. Also if you have no patients and get annoyed easy, just drop your controller. I'm being straight honest and real with you.

Again, all I hear when people give falco the advatange or w/e is cause of his laors. For once just read what I said on them. its really not hard.
 

Canvasofgrey

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I do follow with ground approaches, except that Falco's grab is better than Peach, so if I shield approach I just get grabbed -> Dthrow -> Usmash. XD

It's okay. It's not a big deal since I'm not ashamed of losing to Nyjin.
 

Dark.Pch

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Thats your first problem, you are going so close to falco that he can grab you. When you are getting close to falco, get to him at a certain point whenre he has to stop with the lasers. Then you react or let him react and take it from there.
 

Canvasofgrey

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Yup, only a few characters have a DACUS.

Falco, JigglyPuff, Link, Zelda (Very slight), Sheik, and Squirtle. I think there's a couple more, but I don't remember.

Ah, I see. Though really, I need to fight more Falcos to get that practice in.
 

Dark.Pch

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Yup, only a few characters have a DACUS.

Falco, JigglyPuff, Link, Zelda (Very slight), Sheik, and Squirtle. I think there's a couple more, but I don't remember.

Ah, I see. Though really, I need to fight more Falcos to get that practice in.
When I can I'll play you with Falco. Cause seriously. think about what you was trying to do, why would you even try to grab falco when he is not still and you are getting close when he is shooting at you? Also her grab is not all that and you leave yourself open. Trust me, I was at this point too where I could never beat Falcos. Match up was hell. After I learned it, Falco is now a chump to me.
 
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