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Peach Weekly Match-Up Rediscussion: Falco

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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*poke* You people still alive?

I wouldn't mind moving on sometime soon. I still have to write up the Marth Rediscussion and this one but meh

A conclusion on numbers and what to do would be nice...I know theres been a fair bit of controversy on this match up so keep it all civil still guys
 

JigglyZelda003

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yeah she can't plank like a MK......

but it seems Dark is one of the only ones saying Falco is even. his reasons i do agree w/ but everyone else says 60:40 Falco right?

i guess you take it from there Ricky
 

EdreesesPieces

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here's the simple fact Dark Pch, your analysis concludes that falco can use both his ground game and air game against peach, but falco focuses peach to focus mostly on her ground game. You really think its even despite THIS? Falco's high versatility in how he can play the match? he has way more options and adjustments to make because peach's air game is compromised. It's not the lasers that bug peach but the options the lasers take away when you do exactly what you said in your post.

Has there even been an instance in this1 year brawl has been out of a peach player beating any really good falcos? Never heard of it. I've heard of peaches taking out top metaknights, top snakes, top ddd's and even top marths, but I've never heard of nor seen a peach take out a top falco player.
 

Dark.Pch

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here's the simple fact Dark Pch, your analysis concludes that falco can use both his ground game and air game against peach, but falco focuses peach to focus mostly on her ground game. You really think its even despite THIS? Falco's high versatility in how he can play the match? he has way more options and adjustments to make because peach's air game is compromised. It's not the lasers that bug peach but the options the lasers take away when you do exactly what you said in your post.

Has there even been an instance in this1 year brawl has been out of a peach player beating any really good falcos? Never heard of it. I've heard of peaches taking out top metaknights, top snakes, top ddd's and even top marths, but I've never heard of nor seen a peach take out a top falco player.
I have no problem taking it to the ground most of the time to falco. Her air game is godly but I'm not gonna sit here and rely on it so much. that a common mistake people do. And thier ground game is not all that cause of it. Thus a reason some people can't deal with falco. I take away his laser crap and then force him to fight me. Which is what I want him to do cause I know how to go hand to hand with Falco mostly grounded.

And I have told you before I have beaten D1 in tournament against his falco. And there is another good falco I have beaten called "C4!?" Match up is even.

 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I've gotten behind as far as match ups are concerned. They'll be up to date soon along with the next rediscussion

I haven't fought many Falco's sadly. Although when I had, I found lasers weren't a huge issue (although they do prevent Floating approaches) - it was his Nair and Bair that annoyed me the most. Both of them stay out for a pretty long time. How much range does his Bair have compared to Peach's Fair/Bair?
 

Dark.Pch

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I'm pretty much done with this, ether people listen to my advice and read what I been saying or just keep thinking falco has the advantage and keep losing to them.

I got nothing else to say
 

EdreesesPieces

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Well, I don't really think there is much correlation between how you think the matchup number is and whether you win or lose or not. It's more of a mentality kind of thing. During a match you rarely start randomly thinking "omg this match up is 40-60" and stuff like that. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I have probably never done that.
 

Blistering Speed

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^^^ what Nyjin said.

I'd actually like to see Dark and Nyjin debate this, as Dark's the one that feels this is even.
 

Dark.Pch

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Nyjin Vs. Bone R1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWCtfQCSG4

R2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM8p4qR1FeY&feature=related

R3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvkmHcHGfVA


The match up is definitely in Falco's favor if you camp. Percentage-wise? 40-60 I would say. Peach is totally shut-out but approaching can be extremely difficult for her with good lasering/phantoming. I've never lost to a Peach yet. ;) Not Razmaki/Edrees/Bone. :D

(I'm cocky, I know).
That ment Nothing to me. Camping Falco are nothing. Maybe you need to brush up on how a Peach can shut Falco down.

Bones was play that set wrong. Last Falco that played like you in tournament I 2 stocked.

I been saying this for a long time about how do deal with his lazors thousand times and the match in general. And people dont wanna listen, so w/e. I do what I say and I am just fine with Falco. Match does not even feel close to 40:60. And I beaten the best Falco on the EC, and another good one not that behind him in tournament.

You can be cocky and arrogant all you want. If you bring that my way, I am gonna end you like I end campy snakes. Now you can take this as you want
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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That doesn't make any sense

So far, you've been the only one to call it even, despite claiming you've beaten every Falco you've fought. Surely that would mean that it's in Peachs favour?

Nyjin then comes along and posts vids of him vs Bone and you completely disregard them?? Despite the fact that certainly the 1st and 2nd vid agree with your view on the match up?

I probably would have tried to play things slightly differently to what Bone was doing by staying on the ground a bit more so I could try and PS the lasers but I wasn't the one playing and I don't have much Falco experience so I can't really comment. But by the looks of things, lagless lasers allowed Falco to follow up with an insane amount of things. Most of the time, Falco would fire two - one in the air, meaning Peach couldn't jump up and approach and one on the ground. Peach only had two choices, sheild or get hit. Falco was at the liberty to follow up with just about anything. The hitstun from the lasers is enough to mess up your input and enough for Falco to hit you with something else. His reflector lasts for a very long time and even after it's not been thrown out, it'll still reflect Turnips. Glide Tossing towards him wouldn't have worked....although, perhaps you could try Glide Tossing upwards or downwards so that you can approach him quicker...

You can't simply say 'Oh that means nothing to me' because Bone played very well in those matches. He was actually punishing stuff that his opponent was doing, something I don't see a lot of Peach's do


I'm getting very tired of doing this match up because I don't fight Falco's very often at all and I'm probably not going to either

And for goodness sake, let's not get arguementative with each other again. It's getting to the point where I might as well just delete the match up thread and save everyone the hassle of flamey discussions
 

Dark.Pch

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Show me where I said I beat every falco on the EC?

And again, all the problems you are talking about here, I already went through them. Goddammit man, why just this once people not listen to what I been saying? This is the last damm time I am gonna put this up. And I'll leave the text in white so maybe you will read it better. This is seriously annoying the hell out of me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dark.Pch says: 50-50

The Good: Falco is terrible off the stage, and not hard to keep him out. his Up-B does not go as Far as Fox. So most of the time, he has to F-B to the stage. Now this you can take advantage of with ground floater Nairs or Bairs. (If your timing is Godly, Fairs) Falco lags when shotting lazers on the ground, and they come out slower on the ground than in the air, due to how he gets in that fancy pose to shoot. Falco, can't kell you too well. His Solid Kill move is his Fsmash, and even that does not get the job done unless its a critical hit. Upsmash wont be killing you till like maybe 120+ Same with Dsmash. Around those numbers. When ypou keep the pressure on falco, he can't use his lasers, and you can run all over him and eat that shield. he is not all that quick nether, so you can keep up with him. You can snipe him off of his recoverey with turnips. Both F-B and U-B. He can't chaingrab grab you. Once he down throws you at low %, just Nair. You do this and falco can NEVER chain grab Peach at all. His next best option would be a dashattack to upsmash. But you can chaingrab him to mid %.

The bad- Falco can screw both your air and ground game while moving in. Since he does not lag touching the floor while shooting lasers, he can keep doing it while retreating or moving in. This also makes it hard for you to get turnips. And if he wanted to be an azz, he can F-B to the other side if he is cornered and repeat the process. His reflector stays in affect even when it goes back to falco. I'm sure people got hit with thier own turnips or w/e once falco has but his relfector away. And then at that same time, he can whip it out again. So He seriously can not be touched with a projectile this way. That Fsmash he has is killing you quick, even from behind. When comming back to the stage, falco can screw up your second jump and you can't float or shoot you out of it. Falco can Jump pretty high. he can set you up this way to keep you out or hit you with an air attack for the K.O Bair could do it of an up-air. Also a Dair but that not somthing to rely on. But trust me, you dont wanna get hit with that move at high damage. More damage you have, the harder it is to metor cancel to recovery/break out the stun. And that move launches you fast. Falco is kinda hard to kill due to how heavy he is and peach having trouble killing in general.

Style to use: Aggressive

What to do: I hear this all the time from people. the dang lasers screwing them up and stuff. I'm gonna be honest, and none have to agree, but I think this is true. Reason so many are bowing down to falco is cause they can't deal with his lasers or don't have much of a ground game. People are mostly about the air and Falco just shuts that down. But don't know how to fight on the ground well. Peach's air game is godly thus of course people would focus on that more with the dair combos or w/e and forget to tighten up other stuff that Peach has. Falco is a lesson learned. to have both air and ground game. learn how to get them both up equally. Not just be good at one and fail at the other.

Lets get this out the way, his lasers. Time to shut that **** down. When he lasers you:

- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to him.
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float

"What, then wtf are we suppose to do then, how do we get to falco, you are crazy!"

Maybe I am but if you do this you will get hit with lasers and take damage not needed or could be avoided. So how to get close to falco and top him from using lasers? Run to falco, and shield or if you are good at it (which is not that hard) power shield the lasers. and run or crouch under the air laser. I would say you can put up a turnip on the air shotd laser but I think the ground one would hit you before the turnip animation is over with. Test it. if you can get a turnip under the air shot laser, then sweet, you have a way to get turnips and get close. Now contunie this process till you get close. Once you get close, falco has NO CHOICE but to stop with the lasers, for he will be open for an attack. Once stupid falcos shoot lasers so close to you. they are asking to get hit. Do this every time you wanna get close to falco. This is how you get close to falco and shot down his laser game. Also if you don't feel like stopping and powershielding his lasers, when getting close to him, instant float to Nair his ground lasers. Nairs can cancel his lasers.

Ok, now his lasers are out of the way, about 50% of his game is shot down. Now For falco fighting you in general, close combat. when you get close to falco and get him to stop with the lasers, this is your chance to get your air and ground game in. Short hop Dairs alot on falco, it messes up alot of his stuff and you can kieep him in place and follow up with a Nair. Short hop nairs is so godly with Peach, people seriously need to use this move and not float all the time to air attacks. mix it up. peach floating to Dairs or w/e is so typical and peple know how to punish/get ready for it. So mix it up and give them a nasty surprise. You can also Nair him if you are close to his face like that when you get close to falco. Or space Fairs.

Falcos would likely jab to D-B/ So with his jab you can do 2 Things:

- DI behind him and bair air him.
- DI away and shield the D-B. Not sure how much shield stun that move has but maybe you can attack out of shield and get him. Run out of it as well to a dash attack. (since shield stun in this game is nearly garbage)

if you Go to falco from the air with a turnip, sometimes, they will think you will toss it, so they will pull a relfector. This is where you get them. Fair them, thats a free hit for you. So it is best that if you go to them or if floating to them, that you don't usually throw the turnip. But this depends on how scared or obvious the falco is, so this is on you to figure out and tell with.

Falcos F-B is not really much of an option most of the time to recover. it does not give him much distance. It's pretty much a good game when he tries to do that. its easy to snipe him and knock him out of it. also, you can just go and toad it if you can reach him in time. So next best thing is his Side-B. And I already explain how to deal with that. Turnips can make you force him how he has to recover. (On stage or aim for the age) so just dont tosse turnips aimlessly just to toss them. Aim for him. The moment you aim for him, he has to be on the defense within his recovery, which is hard to do, thus, you Kinda force him to recover to the stage or the edge depending where he is out of the stage. From here you time an edgehog, or an air attack if he aims for the stage. also if your timing is good, time a F/Usmash and its a good game.

Falco can uptilt you out of shield if you pound his shield with Dairs. So what you have to do is dair it and then ether move behind him to a bair or Pull back a lil if you don't hit him with the move. if you pull back, you can land before the move if done, and Nair him for more spressure or if he drops his shield. or shorthop dairs if he rolls to you. Can also space a fair if he rolls to you. See how spacing is so importnat with Peach and leads to great things. get your spacing up there boys. it does so much damage. More than people think.

Uptilts break his Dairs. Done right, Falco can not go through your Uptilt with his Dair. Falcos might also pull the D-B in the air, so be careful when you jump and toss a turnip. Falco will just jump with you and D-B. He can also do this to kick you out of your float. should have said this in the bad section, but least you know. This is all mindgames and guessing but you can toad that. Or run under him and get a free hit. Falco is a sitting duck once he D-B's in the air.

When you pressure falco, he has no choice but to roll. This is where you shorthop dairs or space bairs/Fairs. Really if you have him in a corner. Also some might be concerned if falco tries to F-B to the other side of the stage if you get close while he lasers. You can stop this but getting close then pulling back. that way whenhe F-B, you are abaout in the same spot where he would land on his F-B, and he lags, so thats about a free hit for you. of it you have quick reaction/reflexes, instant foat to a Nair on the ground or jump to a Nair and get him in the air if he does it like that. Pull back a lil when you do this as well so in case you don't hit him, you are right there when he lands, and then you beat his azz.

If falco aproaches you with lasers. Crouch the air shotted lasers and try to power shield the grounded ones and then you can reliate with a Nair or Bair. Dair too if possible. The air shoted lasers give you a chance to get a turnip. Dont roll or side step too much. You will get punished for it bad. really when pined to a corner. cause you have no choice but to roll foward. Then if you roll back......that is just stupid. You wont go anywhere, You better off sidestepping. The side step is faster and endes sonner than her roll.

When comming to the stage, Try to recover high as you can. Soon as you get lauch, dont jump. Don't float. Momentum cancel to a F-B. Do this 2 times and you should be right ovet the stage. Falco won't be hitting you with lasers like this. And if you some how get hit while landing you, still have your other recovery options cause you did not burn your jump, toad or float.

If you can't somehow recover high, when falco is shooting you,don't burn you jump, float or toad. if you can sneak a F-B to the stage, do it. that makes you closer to the stage. And try to recover low. No lasers can hit you like that and it be to risky for falco to go downthere and hit you. But if you get hit while returning, at a certain distance from the stage, thats when you can use your jump and float.Even toad if you are smart with it. those are your last resorts to getting back on the stage. that means falco went through all that crap and yet...you still have recovery options to make it back and can too.

You can airdodge some lasers to help you out but remember, her air dodge is crap. so becareful with it. some points just eat like 2 lasers when returning. DON'T GET HIT WITH JUST ONE AND GET ALL SCARED AND JUMP OR FLOAT. People do this alot then you get hit in the middle of all that and then you can't recover well and be set up for death. Thats why you don't burn your recovery options early, just incase crap like this happens.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Well, if not every Falco then you certainly seem to miss out the people you've lost against and why. You're saying you've beaten some of the best Falco's in their area. Is that consistant or was it just a one off?

I've already read through that wall of text you put up earlier and I can read it perfectly well in orange thankyou. You've mainly gone about lasers which is great but there's not a great deal on what Falco can do when Peach gets close to him and when lasers aren't an option for him because by the sounds of things, Falco can do a lot more than just send lasers flying all over the place. And the reason people are questioning your views is that you're heavily outnumbered in match up views. I'll let someone else pick apart your wall of text if they want because like I said, Falco isn't my speciality


So who exactly do I believe when doing the write up? Is it possible that you're right and everyone else is playing the match up wrong or are you being optimistic about the match up and it's not even? You people need to start looking at other people's posts and telling them where they might be wrong, otherwise we'll never get anythign sorted

I'm not trying to sound like I'm against you Dark. I don't have any grudges against people on SWF and it'd be stupid to have them anyway because it'd interfere with how I write the match ups. At the end of the day, all I want is the correct information and the best way to handle the match ups, regardless of who it's from, which is why you people need to start looking at other people's posts and telling them where they might be wrong, otherwise we'll never get anything sorted


I look forward to hopefully seeing some vids of your Peach vs Falco (and other characters of course) at Genesis Dark
 

EdreesesPieces

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I just want to point out that falco can up tilt out of shield to avoid shield pressure, he doesn't have to roll. The problem with Dark Pch's strategy about avoiding lasers in the post above is that both DEHF and SK92 use the lasers to force you to do this exact thing. They want you to get your shield up or crouch or get stationary, and then put themselves in a position to forward-smash or grab you. They use the lasers TO make you have the reaction in order to punish you - they read it because shielding and crouching make you predictable, you have just a couple of options to avoid the lasers. It makes Falcos who heavily want to read you able to do so a lot more often.

It's probably the best strategy Peach has versus falco though, it's a good post and good strategy. However I think because of the very reasons he used of what Peach needs to do to win the matchup is why I say it's in Falcos advantage. I agree with his entire post but becuase of that post I come to the conclusion of 40-60.
 

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I am going to Genesis, unless something unexpected happens between now and then. I have money reserved and everything.

I'd love to play you Dark.pch. :)

And, yes, Edrees is totally correct with the ^^above post. Lasers are not a means of primary damage for this match-up, it's used to shut-down ALL of Peach's options other than approaching from the floor. THERE Falco dominates if he's not dumb. I'm not some random scrub, Dark.Pch, I have a decent idea of what I'm saying/doing.

This match-up is NOT impossible, but it's definitely not even Dark.pch. The Falcos you have played obviously don't know the match-up or you were simply better than them in terms of raw skill. I stand at 60-40.
 

Dark.Pch

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I give up with. Edreese. That post you just made I realize that and been through. I know all this falco stuff with lazors. I not say all this if i not been through it. And I even went out my way to look at these WC falcos. Still see no need for it to be in his favor. Same typical lasor stuff that gets at Peach that I explain on dealing with.

You all wanna give it to falco?, fine. I seriously don't care anymore do what u want. 50-50 I say. No way in hell he has this People need better ground games and learn how to mix it up with the air. And really learn not to let these **** lasers get to you so much. One stupid move makes a match up 40-60 Falco. One of the dummiest things I ever heard in here.

BTW, D1 is better than me and ***** Peach players. And he has thanked me for it. So just cause I beat him in tourny, does not mean I am better. Falco just isn't **** to me and what I posted in here is what I did on him and won. And it was close.

I think the main problem with you people is without your air game, you boys can't really fight. Been saying this for a long time. This is why I could never beat falcos. I would always lose to them in tournies. Then did what I posted in this thread. Never lost to a falco in tourny again.

But I'm done. Believe what you want
 

Eddie G

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Without our air game, we can't really fight? I have one of the most versatile Peaches out there, air and ground. :urg:
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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- Attempting to ridicule someone to prove your point will not be tolerated. It disgusts me when people try to do this. If someone struggles with something and you don't or if someone thinks the match up is such and such because of this and you think 'well you can do this and this, why are they saying that?' for the love of god, explain to them your viewpoint. Insults such as 'well your air game must suck if you find this hard' are pathetic, childish and I will mostly likely disregard whatever else you have to say
I didn't write those words out for the fun of it you know. Aren't DEHF and SK92 very good Falco players? I've heard there names floating around before

One stupid move makes the match 60-40...what if it happens to be a good move? Right now, we are discussing Ganondorf. The general idea seems to be that it is heavily in Peach's favour due to her Dair. There's been an entire thread dedicated to one move - MK's Tornado because it used to give people so much trouble. DeDeDe's Down Throw is the reason that some character have horrific match ups with him. One move can make a hell of a lot of difference when it comes to match ups

Edrees' point is that the lasers are used to pressure and bait you into a reaction. The lasers aren't 'getting to him' - they're forcing him into a bad situation which Falco is taking advantage of by limiting his options to only sheilding (or get hit). Those are pretty poor options if you ask me

So tell me, once we get close to Falco, what do we do? You've mentioned stuff like SH Dairs and SH Nairs which is great but what about the stuff Falco might do? Take the vids of Bone for example. When he gets close, Falco stops lasering (with no lag) and follows up with things such as Dash Attack --> Up Smash or even more lasers or his Nair


Seriously Dark, I appreciate you posting and contributing information to the match ups but is there any need to be so...agressive and in some cases rude? What's wrong with just saying for example 'Well, I still see it as even but if you think it's 60-40 then I guess that's your view' instead of 'I give up on you. You obviously can't fight without an air game'. It's a much better attitude and much more helpful in the match ups because there's less chance of aruging and a higher chance that a proper, well informed conclusion can be reached

This goes for everyone here btw. I didn't add that stuff onto the OP of these threads just because I wanted to stretch the post a bit. It's there to be read and taken into account
 

Dark.Pch

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Peach gets at Ganon for more then het Dair. Is everyone bei g a Dair ***** now and all they think about? This is why I rarely lose Peach ditto. Typical floating and Dair Peach game getting to old. It's insane how all I have to do is Up-tilt or Up-B to win a ditto. I take away there air game and they lack a ground one. Thus get beat up. Main reason I see people losing to this stupid character.

Oh and don't get me started on Peach players that camp in dittos. Or in general. Thats mostly thier ground game. Shut that down and they got nothing.

Falco takes all that I said away from Peach. And the player has nothing left. Thats why they can't beat this crap.

Im being honest here and ANYONE can take this as they want. Assume what you wan't. People want help and advice. Im not gonna baby anyone. I broke down falco as much as possible. Stated why he wins and why Peach wins. And I seen the WC falcos. Does not come close to changing my mind. Giving this crap to him cause of a bunch of camping. I have no dam problem getting inside a campy Falco and beating his azz for. His lasers do not determind this match up.

And what I said on how a typical peach plays, thats why you let this dumb character get to you.

But screw this, I'm a problem, I'm ****ing done talking about match ups around here. Even if there is a character no one knew about but me and people ask me to talk about, I'm not saying ****. Do it yourself. Tired of helping people and breaking **** down like if I was a lawyer on a murder case and people keep telling me the same crap I explained already. But oh yea, I forgot, I suck. Doing bad in tournaments and losing to ****ing randoms, or choking/SD'ing when I have the win. So maybe 5he next time I fight a falco I'll lose to one like everyone else does. I'm so stupid as Peach after all. **** I bother using her If I do bad at tournies. Take this up with WC Peach players since they know whats up and competition there is tight. And EC competition aint ****. Also Peach playets comming to me out of the blue saying they are better. When I done way more then them. Maybe they are then just cause they say so.

Thats my rant for this annoying morning. I'm done with this freaking match up. You boys wanna give it to falco? Go then. I don't agree. But like what I say matters. Act like I never existed in here. Nothing can be done about his lasers, we cant figjt him,etc. Falco wins.

Any **** mod can give me a point or bann me on the spot for this post. Idc. Sooner I get banned, the better for you all. I aint **** no more and suck so no need to be around here. Let the WC players deal with this and keep losing to falcos. **** this crap and I am officially done, Now to avoid problems, act like I never existed.

Resume to this stupid topic
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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I'm aware Peach has tons more going for her than just her Dair vs Ganon. I was using it as an example to explain how one move can make all the difference. When did Peach dittos come in the equation?

Where on earth did anyone say that they thought they were better than you here? And when did anyone say that we would be better off without you?

The only reason I'm questioning what you have to say Dark is that you think it's even and you're heavily outnumbered as most people see it as 60-40 Falco's advantage. That unfortunetly suggests that this match up isn't in Peach's favour. I've had a look over at the Falco's Peach discussion and they seem to be saying similar things. I'm not being prejudice because I'd question anyone who was heavily outnumbered in their thoughts on any match up, regardless of who they were

I'd like to echo this though

It's probably the best strategy Peach has versus falco though, it's a good post and good strategy. However I think because of the very reasons he used of what Peach needs to do to win the matchup is why I say it's in Falcos advantage. I agree with his entire post but becuase of that post I come to the conclusion of 40-60.
If you disagree with someone then that's absolutely fine but please don't be so confrontational and aggressive about it. It's very off putting for people who post outside the board to post here and makes people who visit this board regularly annoyed
 

Nyjin

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Lasers AND phantom, Dark.pch.

What's a peach going to do when he/she can't reach Falco? Peach is going to start relying on turnips/standing smashes to try and predict phantoms. Then, Falco simply starts lasering again.

I understand your "Ground-game" viewpoint, but Falco's groundgame in addition to his lasers/phantom give him many more options than Peach. It's the unfortunate truth (at least for Peaches ;P).
 

$BONE$

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LOL. Nyjin, I love you.

*rolls his eyes* *grabs the popcorn*

Come on give me a break, I hadn't played brawl in 4+ months.

Edit: no offense Drk. Peach but, you have a huge ego. i never really read your posts until now, is this how you all are on the eastcoast?? - "west coast player who can't play falco"
 

Nyjin

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Booooone! XD

I'm just saying Peaches in general, Bone. ;) I don't have any other Peach fights up on video so I had to choose yours. Sorry soz!
 

Samuelson

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LOL

Ive heard about the drama that goes on in the Peach boards and now i actually get to see it!!!

I think that Falco wins in this matchup. This is just based on what ive seen and the logic behind the matchup. I don't play Peach or Falco though hahaha
 

Eddie G

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Yeah I believe the matchup is 60-40 in Falco's favor due to the reasons stated by Edrees and Nyjin. ^.^
 

Dark.Pch

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I did not get a point for my post? Guess I'll have to try harder for that infraction. And I am surprised I have not been thrown insults yet.

Lasers AND phantom, Dark.pch.

What's a peach going to do when he/she can't reach Falco? Peach is going to start relying on turnips/standing smashes to try and predict phantoms. Then, Falco simply starts lasering again.

I understand your "Ground-game" viewpoint, but Falco's groundgame in addition to his lasers/phantom give him many more options than Peach. It's the unfortunate truth (at least for Peaches ;P).
I find Marth and luigi giving Peach more trouble than Falco. Lets play a lil game then. Lets go into the future for a min. I'm at genesis. I randomly bump into you but don't notice who you are. I'm pissed I lost (as usual) when I could have won but I am 2 stupid and I suck. You know who I am and ask for a fight. I say w/e and we fight cause I seriously dont care. anyone can beat me, beating me means ****.

The match starts and you wanna play keep away and start camping me. You think you have me by doing this. That is your first mistake. For I:

- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to you
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float

I'm shielding and getting close to you by running out my shield. I get close to you, you have no choice but to stop unless you want a free azz kicking in the corner. Now you say you can F-B to the other side? I could have sworn I told you that I 2 stocked a falco for playing like this. He camped and F-B. If You try to F-B:

- I'll time a Ground Float to Nair. It breaks your F-B and you get hit.
- Go in then Pull bait and bait that F-B and stop it with a reverse bair (reason I would do a reserve Bair is cause I am baiting you. Nair is too fast and that move would come out then I get hit with a F-B. I need to slow it down on an attack to hit you with, thus a 6 Frame move would do the Job.
- Time Dairs and you F-B into it

Then you wanna play it slick. Start to do it in the air. Or lets say when the fight started, you just F-B in the air. Ok then. I'll tell you right now. When Falco does it in the air, that is better for me. You are easy to catch and stay close to if you do it in the air.

"How?"

- Remember what I said about me pulling back if you wanna F-B, If I pull back, You will F-B and land right near me, and I can get a hit off you. that move lags when you touch the floor. And even if I don't catch you in time, I'm still near you so you can't camp, u have to fight me off or risk yet another F-B and get punished for it before you zoom to the other side. Only stupid falcos would even think about that one. I can also just time shorthop Nairs and that **** is done with. Same with uptilts or if I have godly timing, upsmash. Recommended to use fast moves to stop that. so why would I waste my time Fsmashing you out of it. See that is something a typical person would do. or just dumb. You know how many frames that move is, and to but it up against his F-B, why would you even think that is an option?

"But I will still hit you at head level while I F-B to the other side"

People forget you can aim your shield in this game. people dont do it, and I dont see why, this lil thing can save you so much. So yea, I'm not getting hit off air F-B's

So with this, your F-B tatic is **** to me and nothing to put fear in my heart in this match. Now about these stupid lasers and set ups that follow.

Keep in mind this is still with in a stocks worth. No stocks lost. When I get pass your laser camping like nothing and get close to you, here is what you would likely do:

- F-B (air or ground)
- Jab
- Jab>w/e
- D-B (mostly due to you may think I wanna get close and attack you)
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)
- Grab (you be surprised)

Not lets do this again, this time telling you what I would do:

- F-B= Look at what I said on this move. so yea, I dont even need to go over this one.
- Jab= short hop or Float to Dairs or go behind and Bair. I would usually get off that typical float Peach game crap and just shorthop dairs. faster then floating and cuts a few frames off. And if I happen to get caught in the Jab, TDI behind and bair him, done.
- Jab >w/e= Most common thing I have seen is Jab to grab. This depends on how close you are. so its ether give or take a beating.
- D-B= Shield and move in with w/e
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)= And so says I always have to throw the first punch? You are the one that is in the corner. You have no space in front (cause of me) and none at the back (Near the edge). I have all the room I need behind me if anything. And I have you in front of me, which is how I like it. Your camping in this case is limited~none. Just how I wanted. Now you are forced to fight me or figure out how to break away. Which I got no problem dealing with Now you might wanna get fancy and run behind me and pivot grab, or short hop Dairs for a get away? then I have to decided:

- Attack out of shield?
- Dish an attack once you react?

-Grab= Need I really go through this one?

"Oh but what if I did ".........................." or I baited to "............................." then I........................."

ok then every answer you gave me for your situation I have one just for you.

"its all about predicting so how you having answers for my tactics or set ups?"

Dude, you are doing the same thing, You seem to act like you know everything I can do. You are no mind reader. And Nether am I. things I do you can take care of. Things you do I can take care of. I am not limited to handling your problems. Yet you and the rest seem to think that. I could do something to stop w/e you are doing, and fail. Could try it again and get you. Same applies for you. Its a cycle. there is nothing I can stop and there is nothing I can't stop.

Everyone is taking this laser crap to a level it is seriously not needed to be.

Oh, and if falco is the one comming to you with lasers. It's even better for you.

So what did we learn here?

- Falcos lasers dont stop you from getting to him and dont have to take the hits to get in. You can get to falco without eating lasers. (laser game is done)

- if he wannas to be a clown and F-B to laser to camp and get damage. I already staed how to stop it both air and ground. Last falco that tried this got beat up for it bad.

- When you get close to falcos, they expect you to throw the first punch. You really don't have too. If anything falco really does, he is the one pinned to a corner. He is in the danger situation, not you. You can cover all his options from where you are and beat his azz

" Oh but what if I am not in a corner what if you get close to me and I am center stage?"

You still have to quit with the lasers and do something like:

- Jab
- Jab>w/e
- D-B (mostly due to you may think I wanna get close and attack you)
- Let me through the first punch and you take advantage. (mostly expected)
- Grab (you be surprised)

Your F-B option here is limited, for you wont get far or risk an SD off the stage. Don't think a falco would be that stupid right?



Now me and You are still in a match and a stock just got taken off. Buy who and how? By anyone and by cuase that I explained. Now the match is going back and fourth here. But who won? The winner is not decided by match up advantage, cause there isnt one and I went through it. The wineers was decided by who out smarted who and who ever reacted quicker.

Now here is a lil mindgame, you might come in here and post saying how you can handle all things I stated Peach can do if I was to do this and that. But I already covered all of that. Why you think I said it was even? Now with all this said. Add this post with the other post on me explaining the match up on how it is even.

Falco does not have this. Sorry but hell no. I went to both the Peach and falcos minds in this and all the **** they can do. its a cycle and both have solutions or each of thier problems.

50-50. I dare anyone to try and test this post to how falco has the advantage. I went in too far in this match up, more than I should have. Falco does not have this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dark.Pch says: 50-50

The Good: Falco is terrible off the stage, and not hard to keep him out. his Up-B does not go as Far as Fox. So most of the time, he has to F-B to the stage. Now this you can take advantage of with ground floater Nairs or Bairs. (If your timing is Godly, Fairs) Falco lags when shotting lazers on the ground, and they come out slower on the ground than in the air, due to how he gets in that fancy pose to shoot. Falco, can't kell you too well. His Solid Kill move is his Fsmash, and even that does not get the job done unless its a critical hit. Upsmash wont be killing you till like maybe 120+ Same with Dsmash. Around those numbers. When ypou keep the pressure on falco, he can't use his lasers, and you can run all over him and eat that shield. he is not all that quick nether, so you can keep up with him. You can snipe him off of his recoverey with turnips. Both F-B and U-B. He can't chaingrab grab you. Once he down throws you at low %, just Nair. You do this and falco can NEVER chain grab Peach at all. His next best option would be a dashattack to upsmash. But you can chaingrab him to mid %.

The bad- Falco can screw both your air and ground game while moving in. Since he does not lag touching the floor while shooting lasers, he can keep doing it while retreating or moving in. This also makes it hard for you to get turnips. And if he wanted to be an azz, he can F-B to the other side if he is cornered and repeat the process. His reflector stays in affect even when it goes back to falco. I'm sure people got hit with thier own turnips or w/e once falco has but his relfector away. And then at that same time, he can whip it out again. So He seriously can not be touched with a projectile this way. That Fsmash he has is killing you quick, even from behind. When comming back to the stage, falco can screw up your second jump and you can't float or shoot you out of it. Falco can Jump pretty high. he can set you up this way to keep you out or hit you with an air attack for the K.O Bair could do it of an up-air. Also a Dair but that not somthing to rely on. But trust me, you dont wanna get hit with that move at high damage. More damage you have, the harder it is to metor cancel to recovery/break out the stun. And that move launches you fast. Falco is kinda hard to kill due to how heavy he is and peach having trouble killing in general.

Style to use: Aggressive

What to do: I hear this all the time from people. the dang lasers screwing them up and stuff. I'm gonna be honest, and none have to agree, but I think this is true. Reason so many are bowing down to falco is cause they can't deal with his lasers or don't have much of a ground game. People are mostly about the air and Falco just shuts that down. But don't know how to fight on the ground well. Peach's air game is godly thus of course people would focus on that more with the dair combos or w/e and forget to tighten up other stuff that Peach has. Falco is a lesson learned. to have both air and ground game. learn how to get them both up equally. Not just be good at one and fail at the other.

Lets get this out the way, his lasers. Time to shut that **** down. When he lasers you:

- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to him.
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float

"What, then wtf are we suppose to do then, how do we get to falco, you are crazy!"

Maybe I am but if you do this you will get hit with lasers and take damage not needed or could be avoided. So how to get close to falco and top him from using lasers? Run to falco, and shield or if you are good at it (which is not that hard) power shield the lasers. and run or crouch under the air laser. I would say you can put up a turnip on the air shotd laser but I think the ground one would hit you before the turnip animation is over with. Test it. if you can get a turnip under the air shot laser, then sweet, you have a way to get turnips and get close. Now contunie this process till you get close. Once you get close, falco has NO CHOICE but to stop with the lasers, for he will be open for an attack. Once stupid falcos shoot lasers so close to you. they are asking to get hit. Do this every time you wanna get close to falco. This is how you get close to falco and shot down his laser game. Also if you don't feel like stopping and powershielding his lasers, when getting close to him, instant float to Nair his ground lasers. Nairs can cancel his lasers.

Ok, now his lasers are out of the way, about 50% of his game is shot down. Now For falco fighting you in general, close combat. when you get close to falco and get him to stop with the lasers, this is your chance to get your air and ground game in. Short hop Dairs alot on falco, it messes up alot of his stuff and you can kieep him in place and follow up with a Nair. Short hop nairs is so godly with Peach, people seriously need to use this move and not float all the time to air attacks. mix it up. peach floating to Dairs or w/e is so typical and peple know how to punish/get ready for it. So mix it up and give them a nasty surprise. You can also Nair him if you are close to his face like that when you get close to falco. Or space Fairs.

Falcos would likely jab to D-B/ So with his jab you can do 2 Things:

- DI behind him and bair air him.
- DI away and shield the D-B. Not sure how much shield stun that move has but maybe you can attack out of shield and get him. Run out of it as well to a dash attack. (since shield stun in this game is nearly garbage)

if you Go to falco from the air with a turnip, sometimes, they will think you will toss it, so they will pull a relfector. This is where you get them. Fair them, thats a free hit for you. So it is best that if you go to them or if floating to them, that you don't usually throw the turnip. But this depends on how scared or obvious the falco is, so this is on you to figure out and tell with.

Falcos F-B is not really much of an option most of the time to recover. it does not give him much distance. It's pretty much a good game when he tries to do that. its easy to snipe him and knock him out of it. also, you can just go and toad it if you can reach him in time. So next best thing is his Side-B. And I already explain how to deal with that. Turnips can make you force him how he has to recover. (On stage or aim for the age) so just dont tosse turnips aimlessly just to toss them. Aim for him. The moment you aim for him, he has to be on the defense within his recovery, which is hard to do, thus, you Kinda force him to recover to the stage or the edge depending where he is out of the stage. From here you time an edgehog, or an air attack if he aims for the stage. also if your timing is good, time a F/Usmash and its a good game.

Falco can uptilt you out of shield if you pound his shield with Dairs. So what you have to do is dair it and then ether move behind him to a bair or Pull back a lil if you don't hit him with the move. if you pull back, you can land before the move if done, and Nair him for more spressure or if he drops his shield. or shorthop dairs if he rolls to you. Can also space a fair if he rolls to you. See how spacing is so importnat with Peach and leads to great things. get your spacing up there boys. it does so much damage. More than people think.

Uptilts break his Dairs. Done right, Falco can not go through your Uptilt with his Dair. Falcos might also pull the D-B in the air, so be careful when you jump and toss a turnip. Falco will just jump with you and D-B. He can also do this to kick you out of your float. should have said this in the bad section, but least you know. This is all mindgames and guessing but you can toad that. Or run under him and get a free hit. Falco is a sitting duck once he D-B's in the air.

When you pressure falco, he has no choice but to roll. This is where you shorthop dairs or space bairs/Fairs. Really if you have him in a corner. Also some might be concerned if falco tries to F-B to the other side of the stage if you get close while he lasers. You can stop this but getting close then pulling back. that way whenhe F-B, you are abaout in the same spot where he would land on his F-B, and he lags, so thats about a free hit for you. of it you have quick reaction/reflexes, instant foat to a Nair on the ground or jump to a Nair and get him in the air if he does it like that. Pull back a lil when you do this as well so in case you don't hit him, you are right there when he lands, and then you beat his azz.

If falco aproaches you with lasers. Crouch the air shotted lasers and try to power shield the grounded ones and then you can reliate with a Nair or Bair. Dair too if possible. The air shoted lasers give you a chance to get a turnip. Dont roll or side step too much. You will get punished for it bad. really when pined to a corner. cause you have no choice but to roll foward. Then if you roll back......that is just stupid. You wont go anywhere, You better off sidestepping. The side step is faster and endes sonner than her roll.

When comming to the stage, Try to recover high as you can. Soon as you get lauch, dont jump. Don't float. Momentum cancel to a F-B. Do this 2 times and you should be right ovet the stage. Falco won't be hitting you with lasers like this. And if you some how get hit while landing you, still have your other recovery options cause you did not burn your jump, toad or float.

If you can't somehow recover high, when falco is shooting you,don't burn you jump, float or toad. if you can sneak a F-B to the stage, do it. that makes you closer to the stage. And try to recover low. No lasers can hit you like that and it be to risky for falco to go downthere and hit you. But if you get hit while returning, at a certain distance from the stage, thats when you can use your jump and float.Even toad if you are smart with it. those are your last resorts to getting back on the stage. that means falco went through all that crap and yet...you still have recovery options to make it back and can too.

You can airdodge some lasers to help you out but remember, her air dodge is crap. so becareful with it. some points just eat like 2 lasers when returning. DON'T GET HIT WITH JUST ONE AND GET ALL SCARED AND JUMP OR FLOAT. People do this alot then you get hit in the middle of all that and then you can't recover well and be set up for death. Thats why you don't burn your recovery options early, just incase crap like this happens.




LOL. Nyjin, I love you.

*rolls his eyes* *grabs the popcorn*

Come on give me a break, I hadn't played brawl in 4+ months.

Edit: no offense Drk. Peach but, you have a huge ego. i never really read your posts until now, is this how you all are on the eastcoast?? - "west coast player who can't play falco"
I have an ego cause I think Peach players can't handle falco. If I have an ego I been saying I am better than you all and that I dont suck. Yet I been saying that I do for a while now. and been doing bad in tournaments. So how in the world I have an ego. I still say Peach players can't fight falco over there. Thats what I think and how you guiys sound like. Kill me for you guys leading me to this when I have to break down the match up and point otherwise. Problems people keep stating aboutI went through already. I handle it just fine.

All this still people keep saying Falco has the advantage is the reason I could never beat falco, just like the rest of you. every falco I touched I would lose too. Then I thought about why I was losing to him and thought of ways to kick his azz. and I did. Never lost to a falco in tournament again. From good to campy to campy falcos that also F-B (that one falco got 2 stocked for doing this).

So you think I have an ego. Go ahead and be on the boat like everyone else. see if I give a damm.
 

DrakeRowan

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I personally see this as 57-43 Falco's favor.

Reasons have already been stated by other people. I don't need to repeat them.
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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LOL

Ive heard about the drama that goes on in the Peach boards and now i actually get to see it!!!

I think that Falco wins in this matchup. This is just based on what ive seen and the logic behind the matchup. I don't play Peach or Falco though hahaha
Begone! Away with your Lucario's and deer fighting videos :O *smites*

And before anyone brings mindgames into match ups, please don't. Tricking or being smarter than your opponent means nothing when discussing match ups. Trust me, I see this all the time for anything Sonic-related

How good are Falco's aerials vs Peach? It seems that your average Falco spams lasers and Side B's to the other side of the stage but if I was playing Falco, if someone got close to my laser camping, I wouldn't always Side B to the other side of the stage - that'd be horribly predictable. I'd probably try and get some aerials or a grab in

I think we've established that Falco has more than his lasers and I'm probably going to bring this to a close soon since we have a lot more match ups to discuss. The only thing that seems to be in disagreement is the match up rating

And yes, I am probably going to put this at 60:40. No, I'm not giving in or giving this to Falco and I couldn't care less what anyone has to say. 60:40 seems to be the general idea and if you don't like the way I do the match ups round here, go cry about it elsewhere because I don't care. I don't even play Falco's often so it's really no concern of mine. Selfish maybe but I'm tired of dragging this match up out for longer than we need to
 

EdreesesPieces

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I give up with. Edreese. That post you just made I realize that and been through. I know all this falco stuff with lazors. I not say all this if i not been through it. And I even went out my way to look at these WC falcos. Still see no need for it to be in his favor. Same typical lasor stuff that gets at Peach that I explain on dealing with.

You all wanna give it to falco?, fine. I seriously don't care anymore do what u want. 50-50 I say. No way in hell he has this People need better ground games and learn how to mix it up with the air. And really learn not to let these **** lasers get to you so much. One stupid move makes a match up 40-60 Falco. One of the dummiest things I ever heard in here.

BTW, D1 is better than me and ***** Peach players. And he has thanked me for it. So just cause I beat him in tourny, does not mean I am better. Falco just isn't **** to me and what I posted in here is what I did on him and won. And it was close.

I think the main problem with you people is without your air game, you boys can't really fight. Been saying this for a long time. This is why I could never beat falcos. I would always lose to them in tournies. Then did what I posted in this thread. Never lost to a falco in tourny again.

But I'm done. Believe what you want
What you need to understand is that just because you are great at a matchup doesn't mean the character is good at the matchup. Like I said, I can beat almost any Marth or at least have an extremely close match with any Marth out there. I consider it a fun and relaxing and not that hard of a matchup. I know a TON of stuff to beat Marth. But this personal strength in a matchup is not to be confused with how the matchup actually is overall. This is what I mean. Saying someone has the advantage does NOT mean you can't beat them. I say Marth beats peach 60-40 but I can beat marths like you can beat falco, so no, not everyone is the same. Personally the more I think I'm disadvantaged the better I tend to do.
 

Nyjin

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"I'm shielding and getting close to you by running out my shield. I get close to you, you have no choice but to stop unless you want a free azz kicking in the corner. Now you say you can F-B to the other side? I could have sworn I told you that I 2 stocked a falco for playing like this. He camped and F-B. If You try to F-B:"

This is what you'd do, Dark.pch? Shield-walk to me....really? If, my possessing one single move (Lasers), I can force you to do this then isn't that already giving up most of Peach's strengths? I'm sorry but "Shield-dashing/walking" towards someone as the ONLY way to approach already puts you at a disadvantage. Falco can also do several things...

-Pivot Grab
-Dash Grab
-Jab
-Reflector

Dark.pch also said,

"- Don't jump
- Don't try to float to you
- Don't get a turnip(s)
- Don't float"

Without doing ANY of these, my previously mentioned four options that Falco has defeats Shield-dashing.

You are assuming that the falcos ONLY Laser/Side-B basically, with few/little mix-ups.

You are relying way too much on your opponents predictability. Even with all these, all I'm saying is a small 20 matchup deficit. Peach's lack of options when approaching ALONE tip the balance in Falco's favor. This is a large part of any match-up and this is why it's 60-40.
 

$BONE$

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 20, 2006
Messages
906
Location
San Diego
LOL. I'll say, my little Nyjin is not a baby anymore. Putting up better arguments than big daddy himself. You are a young spirited and man. We raised you well.

59.9/40.1

one point for charisma drk.pch

 

Eddie G

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
9,123
Location
Cleveland, OH
NNID
neohmarth216
What you need to understand is that just because you are great at a matchup doesn't mean the character is good at the matchup. Like I said, I can beat almost any Marth or at least have an extremely close match with any Marth out there. I consider it a fun and relaxing and not that hard of a matchup. I know a TON of stuff to beat Marth. But this personal strength in a matchup is not to be confused with how the matchup actually is overall. This is what I mean. Saying someone has the advantage does NOT mean you can't beat them. I say Marth beats peach 60-40 but I can beat marths like you can beat falco, so no, not everyone is the same. Personally the more I think I'm disadvantaged the better I tend to do.
^ Yes, this right here.

Personal comfort with a matchup does not define the matchup.

Dark.Pch, I am personally comfortable with fighting the Falco matchup as well, but that doesn't make me sway my opinion from what the matchup actually is. When it comes down to it, Falco still has the advantage. Who knows, it may be 50-50, but only when you're fighting against it. But again, that is due to your own personal comfort with the matchup and does not apply to every Peach player out there.
 
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