stealth3654
Smash Lord
So everyone agrees that the match-up ratio is 55/45 Peach and no one has anything else to add?
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Sheikah Survival Guide: A Sheik Match-up Thread
- Thread starter stealth3654
- Start date
choknater
Smash Obsessed
yeah its pretty much decided. the matchup is fairly even, can go either way
for now peach has a slight range and priority advantage, sheik has a VERY SLIGHT speed advantage, and peach's recovery is better.
but i think what we can all (hopefully) agree on is that the matchup is fun :D eheheh
light must be a really good strategist to think the matchup is in sheik's favor. that and patient, hehe
for now peach has a slight range and priority advantage, sheik has a VERY SLIGHT speed advantage, and peach's recovery is better.
but i think what we can all (hopefully) agree on is that the matchup is fun :D eheheh
light must be a really good strategist to think the matchup is in sheik's favor. that and patient, hehe
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Ok then. We will move on to Ike.
Discuss!
Discuss!
gm jack
Smash Lord
Fear his jab game.
Other than that, he is pretty slow, and easy to camp. Just make sure you are familiar with the hitboxes for his moves, as the Fsmash hitting above and behind has caught me out a few times.
Also, easy to gimp. Just don't let yourself get spiked by not using the invincibility frames properly if he needs to upB.
I find that Sheik just has such a great speed advantage that most of his options are useless unless the Sheik seriously messes up. That said, Ike has a good, fast Bair and probably the best jab game in the game. They will rack some serious damage on quickly if you keep getting hit by it, and they do not need much to put you in kill percentages.
Other than that, he is pretty slow, and easy to camp. Just make sure you are familiar with the hitboxes for his moves, as the Fsmash hitting above and behind has caught me out a few times.
Also, easy to gimp. Just don't let yourself get spiked by not using the invincibility frames properly if he needs to upB.
I find that Sheik just has such a great speed advantage that most of his options are useless unless the Sheik seriously messes up. That said, Ike has a good, fast Bair and probably the best jab game in the game. They will rack some serious damage on quickly if you keep getting hit by it, and they do not need much to put you in kill percentages.
clowsui
Smash Legend
you're wrong about the jab game lol...Falco and Snake easily have the best jab games
gm jack
Smash Lord
You can SDI out of the last hit of Snakes jab, and I was not aware that he had any good jab cancels.
Falco does have a very good jab, but he lack the ability to mix it up as well as Ike IMO. Ike has some insane jab cancel options, as his jab has a fair amount of hit stun,
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Snake has jab cancel > ftilt, utilt, and grab. What else does he need?
Enough about Snake though. Ike can jab cancel > bair, which can kill. Watch out for his forward air since it has a huge hit box (can hit under him) with small landing lag. Also, his neutral air stays out for a long time. If Ike tries to sweet spot the edge with his side B (or just barely get over it), then you can jump out in front of him. This will cause you to get it, but he will fall to his doom. If you are trying to grab the ledge without using the chain, watch out for his down tilt because it spikes. Also, be careful when trying to air dodge past Ike's up air because it stays out for a LONG time and he can fast fall with you.
One more thing, you can tilt lock Ike pretty well.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hm.... you need to find the open spots against ike. i know he has a lot of range and priority over everything you do, but sheik can easily find those times between attacks to approach. many times, sheik can just run up and grab him if he's not spacing right. this matchup comes down to ike's spacing and sheik's approach. of course, sheik has the option to camp him as well since needles shut down his quick draw and walk up jab approaches.
just watch out for sh nair and full jump fairs/nairs.
this matchup is not that hard really, but i have yet to play a very good ike irl.
just watch out for sh nair and full jump fairs/nairs.
this matchup is not that hard really, but i have yet to play a very good ike irl.
iLight
Smash Lord
i lost to bored at the last tourney as sheik, he was good. idk this match up as well as i thought
choknater
Smash Obsessed
what gave you trouble?
stealth3654
Smash Lord
So, what does everyone think the match-up ratio is?
yeah a good ike is good. A decent ppresure game with his aerials and their disjointedness can be a problem for an aggressive sheik. and his range and speed on jab is nothing to take lightly, jabs rack up so much damage and can lead into other things as well.
Seriously space well and abuse needles, all of his approaches (which aren't bad) can be wreck by well timed needles. be patient and wait for kill options don't force them, ike can kill so low it isn't worth taking a little bit of damage for [/i]maybes.
You should be winning, but you can't take ike lightly... similar to how you can't take fox lightly..........
Seriously space well and abuse needles, all of his approaches (which aren't bad) can be wreck by well timed needles. be patient and wait for kill options don't force them, ike can kill so low it isn't worth taking a little bit of damage for [/i]maybes.
You should be winning, but you can't take ike lightly... similar to how you can't take fox lightly..........
East
Crappy Imitation
I would put this in Ike's favor, but I know, well... no one else would agree. Ike's jab eats through pretty much any hope of an approach, and if you play one that repeatedly cancels the first jab, into another jab you realize making the first attack is not an option. Needles only do so much, until he is close enough to bring the pain. All of his hits hurt, and his jab leads into hits that hurt.
But what do I know, If I could stop sucking, perhaps I'd see that this match-up may not be in Ike's favor, but I think all of you guys underestimate what Ike can do, and in a match, that could be your downfall.
But what do I know, If I could stop sucking, perhaps I'd see that this match-up may not be in Ike's favor, but I think all of you guys underestimate what Ike can do, and in a match, that could be your downfall.
oh believe me Ike is beastly, I know. his range and damage out puts in the air. and jab alone on the ground make him a really strong character. but slower movement and those same moves make it very easy to punish him just for jumping.
I may be a little off, but sheik should really be the one controlling the pase of the match.
I may be a little off, but sheik should really be the one controlling the pase of the match.
iLight
Smash Lord
i agree, idk specifically why i lost. but i was having a lot of trouble with getting jabbed to grab by him, or jab combos in general. and then he would randomly charge a smash attack and i would die =]
i'd say 60-40 sheik though because you tilt lock him, unless i'm mistaken, which i've been known to be mistaken before
i'd say 60-40 sheik though because you tilt lock him, unless i'm mistaken, which i've been known to be mistaken before
stealth3654
Smash Lord
I also say 60/40 Sheik.
Just like <3 said, make sure not to let Ike control the flow of the match. You can camp with needles, but when Ike gets close get ready for fairs/nairs/jabs and random ftilts (really strong).
I say take Ike to some place like rainbow cruise or japes where he can't recover. Ban battle field where he can pester you with long lasting attacks from underneath platforms.
Just like <3 said, make sure not to let Ike control the flow of the match. You can camp with needles, but when Ike gets close get ready for fairs/nairs/jabs and random ftilts (really strong).
I say take Ike to some place like rainbow cruise or japes where he can't recover. Ban battle field where he can pester you with long lasting attacks from underneath platforms.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Lucario boards are discussing sheik (pretty much done, actually). If you could give a few pointers from your perspective, that would be appreciated.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8134977#post8134977
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=8134977#post8134977
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i hate getting hit by random smashes or ftilt 
stealth3654
Smash Lord
So, does everyone agree that the ratio is 60/40 Sheik?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
ehhh, i honestly have no idea
when i actually PLAY the matchup, i feel its 60-40
but i hear people saying ike has a lot of things that give them trouble, and ike players saying they have an advantage. and i dont have a looot of experience in the matchup myself
i would say 55-45 sheik to make the compromise. thats just me. could even be 50-50
i just think needles make quite a difference and can give sheik the edge
when i actually PLAY the matchup, i feel its 60-40
but i hear people saying ike has a lot of things that give them trouble, and ike players saying they have an advantage. and i dont have a looot of experience in the matchup myself
i would say 55-45 sheik to make the compromise. thats just me. could even be 50-50
i just think needles make quite a difference and can give sheik the edge
I think the main problem for people who fight against ike is that they think they can punish ike after he done something like fair and nair. When I fought Ike the first time, I would shield the move then run in to attack but he just jab me instantly. I was like dang Ike is too good
So learn what can be punish and such then you can slowly start to beat Ike easily. Dash attack imo is the key in this match up. It's our fastest move from running and cover a lot of range. You can shield a fair and then dash attack them. Also, learn how Ike baits a kill. They either charge smash when u're on the edge or wait for an air dodge to up smash you. Knowing these things u can avoid them successfully. He's also slow so run around him and spam needles to annoy him.
I suggest banning halberd cause I see a lot of Ike go there for some reason. Probably cause of low ceiling and up smash/back air hits on top of platforms. They also seem to like battlefield the most for neutral. FD is good vs him if u play the away game and pretty much any stage that makes him move around is good. Ike usually try to be stationary with jabs and grab so making him move around will help you out.
60-40 Sheik when both players understand the match. If this is Sheik's first time then I can see 60-40 Ike just cause u'll be getting jab a lot and air dodge to his punishment.
on a side note, I go falcon vs Ike anyways. It's like 70-30 Falcon advantage.
So learn what can be punish and such then you can slowly start to beat Ike easily. Dash attack imo is the key in this match up. It's our fastest move from running and cover a lot of range. You can shield a fair and then dash attack them. Also, learn how Ike baits a kill. They either charge smash when u're on the edge or wait for an air dodge to up smash you. Knowing these things u can avoid them successfully. He's also slow so run around him and spam needles to annoy him.
I suggest banning halberd cause I see a lot of Ike go there for some reason. Probably cause of low ceiling and up smash/back air hits on top of platforms. They also seem to like battlefield the most for neutral. FD is good vs him if u play the away game and pretty much any stage that makes him move around is good. Ike usually try to be stationary with jabs and grab so making him move around will help you out.
60-40 Sheik when both players understand the match. If this is Sheik's first time then I can see 60-40 Ike just cause u'll be getting jab a lot and air dodge to his punishment.
on a side note, I go falcon vs Ike anyways. It's like 70-30 Falcon advantage.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hahaha good **** champ
i have an amazing replay of falcon vs ike on my wii
i have an amazing replay of falcon vs ike on my wii
um... yeah when he jumps, every time he jumps you should be getting free damage with needles. Dash attack OOS, too good. That is all
choknater
Smash Obsessed
kingcobra9
Smash Ace
wouldn't you have troubles using down smash to much
fun fact: fox can up smash g&w fsmash after u shield it. Doesn't have to be oos too
fox usmash is so fast >
tap forward and hit down on the c-stick and you will always dash attack, always. you can buffer the run out of shield or out of other attacks and you always should to take advantage of it'd five frame hit box and amazing range.
Since you can't do a downsmash during your opening run animation you will do a dash attack instead. you can upsmash, you can fsmash so that why the other directions and a and z all equate to one of those attacks and down on the c-stick makes you dash attack...
pretty much any attack on shield you could of hit with ftilt if you weren't out ranged you can hit with dash attack. snake's ftilt and fsmash, gdub's smashes, D3's tilts, gdorf, marth's fsmash tilts and FAIR!! meta's smashes... like seriously. that move is beast I use it constantly to keep presure off out of sheild. it really prevents people from using their "get aways" and pokes.
Wolf can do the same thing with fsmash though except better.
tap forward and hit down on the c-stick and you will always dash attack, always. you can buffer the run out of shield or out of other attacks and you always should to take advantage of it'd five frame hit box and amazing range.
Since you can't do a downsmash during your opening run animation you will do a dash attack instead. you can upsmash, you can fsmash so that why the other directions and a and z all equate to one of those attacks and down on the c-stick makes you dash attack...
pretty much any attack on shield you could of hit with ftilt if you weren't out ranged you can hit with dash attack. snake's ftilt and fsmash, gdub's smashes, D3's tilts, gdorf, marth's fsmash tilts and FAIR!! meta's smashes... like seriously. that move is beast I use it constantly to keep presure off out of sheild. it really prevents people from using their "get aways" and pokes.
Wolf can do the same thing with fsmash though
except better.
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Does anyone have anything else to add to the Ike vs Sheik match-up?
choknater
Smash Obsessed
stealth, not really 
let's do someone fun next!! someone underused
let's do someone fun next!! someone underused
jigglypuff!
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hm i like that
stealth3654
Smash Lord
Alright then. Our next character will be Jigglypuff!
Discuss!!!
Discuss!!!
choknater
Smash Obsessed
hmmmm haha shes actually kinda tough to fight, i dont really know any specifics, i just play like a normal sheik and i win
similar to wario, u cant just rush in and attack, but u outrange her with bairs so just think of those to fight
her fairs are good so watch out and be patient
stop rollout with needles, dont underestimate rollout!
similar to wario, u cant just rush in and attack, but u outrange her with bairs so just think of those to fight
her fairs are good so watch out and be patient
stop rollout with needles, dont underestimate rollout!
stealth3654
Smash Lord
jiggles can dair > rest, which will kill you very early. She can also WoP Sheik pretty well. You have projectiles and Jiggles is light. 55/45 Sheik?
SuSa
Banned via Administration
Dair > rest is not reliable. Staled uairs (x5 stale), then uair > uair > rest is more viable... lol
Her biggest thing is being able to float around, and poke at you. She can gimp you rather well, as well as juggle you to oblivion. She can actually avoid your kill moves rather easily.
You can't really ftilt lock her a ton due to her floatiness, and she is more mobile then you in the air. You just don't have as many options against her as usual.
She - however - has issues with Zelda. (Or at least my Jigglypuff has problems with Zelda) and I'd suggest going Zelda for this match.
Her biggest thing is being able to float around, and poke at you. She can gimp you rather well, as well as juggle you to oblivion. She can actually avoid your kill moves rather easily.
You can't really ftilt lock her a ton due to her floatiness, and she is more mobile then you in the air. You just don't have as many options against her as usual.
She - however - has issues with Zelda. (Or at least my Jigglypuff has problems with Zelda) and I'd suggest going Zelda for this match.
GeneralWoodman
Smash Lord
a good jiggz will airdodge into the ground a lot so set up a good grab game.
jiggz actually has some good tilts and although only a few jiggz use them, the ones that do have good follows.
if jiggz goes for the fair don't roll and downsmash, she can bair immediatly afterwards
jiggz actually has some good tilts and although only a few jiggz use them, the ones that do have good follows.
if jiggz goes for the fair don't roll and downsmash, she can bair immediatly afterwards
Huh?
...what?
.....buh-wuh?
Ok, now I'm just totally confused.
But seriously, SuSa nailed this one. F-tilt sucks, uair is your friend, needles are pretty useful. Most importantly, switch to Zelda and bring down the house.
rollout is SO~ underrated. if you knock someone down and start roll out, they are dead. You don't have to go any where near fully charged for the move to become a powerful horizontal kill. In fact... it always has that same kill potential.
drill rest is not reliable because of smash DI, fortunately you can read the DI and vissually check if it possible before executing the rest. Another strong option out of drill is dash attack which is a true combo and has really good kill potential and will at the very least set up for a low angled edge guard. plus you always have the grab/smash attack/ jab rock paper sissors game. in the match up even if you do fail you won't be punished too hard.
^
Yeah...
Um... jiggs is much more mobile in the air than sheik and can use that to pick and choose when to attacks and amazing grab game really helps out Mr. Jiggles in this match up to, it helps rack damage and get sheik up in the air a bad spot for sheik.
It's not all bad for sheik though. needles are really good on whiffed aerials, you can keep up pressure with bair pretty well. You really have to be on top of your game and make good choices since you can't ftilt to keep up pressure. combo's are difficult, rest is always in the back of your mind as an inturupt to any of your follow ups, and even on whiff you can't punish them well...
I think versus Zelda is in Jiggy's favor. but she does have an easier time landing successful kills and she can punish rest with kill moves instead of a 10% -18% slap on the wrist.
drill rest is not reliable because of smash DI, fortunately you can read the DI and vissually check if it possible before executing the rest. Another strong option out of drill is dash attack which is a true combo and has really good kill potential and will at the very least set up for a low angled edge guard. plus you always have the grab/smash attack/ jab rock paper sissors game. in the match up even if you do fail you won't be punished too hard.
^
Yeah...
Um... jiggs is much more mobile in the air than sheik and can use that to pick and choose when to attacks and amazing grab game really helps out Mr. Jiggles in this match up to, it helps rack damage and get sheik up in the air a bad spot for sheik.
It's not all bad for sheik though. needles are really good on whiffed aerials, you can keep up pressure with bair pretty well. You really have to be on top of your game and make good choices since you can't ftilt to keep up pressure. combo's are difficult, rest is always in the back of your mind as an inturupt to any of your follow ups, and even on whiff you can't punish them well...
I think versus Zelda is in Jiggy's favor. but she does have an easier time landing successful kills and she can punish rest with kill moves instead of a 10% -18% slap on the wrist.
choknater
Smash Obsessed
i would advise using both sheik and zelda in this matchup, zelda can kill jiggly at like 60~80 if you can actually connect a ko move
yea
if u can actually connect it
but its very possible
yea
if u can actually connect it
but its very possible