Peach Stage Discussion: Smashville

[collapse="Disclaimers"]Note: The original Peach stage discussion (Rickerdy-doo-da-day's "Setting the Scene" topic) is pretty much the basis of this topic. If anything, you can think of this as a rediscussion topic, as it is pretty old.

After searching through the Peach board, I see we don't really have a specific topic for stages. I personally believe that there isn't enough discussion on what exactly makes a stage good or bad for Peach, or organizes counterpicks/bans against opponents based on the stage itself. Maybe this topic will help out players in need of finding a good overall counterpick for themselves, or learn something new about a stage. Or maybe it'll die off. Only time will tell. I'll be basing this off of the stage counterpick topic.

I realize there's a counterpick topic, but again, this is either for general stage discussion or specific stage tactics, not entirely for counterpicking.

A few notes before we start.

-This is for learning, and going off topic (unless it is for good reason) or making personal attacks will not be tolerated.

-Let me know if there's anything you want me to stress when it comes to the stage summary. I will be glad to go back and rediscuss previous stages, but I want to get through the stages as efficiently as possible, so I may not return to a stage until at least the neutrals/counterpicks are completed.

-Make sure you try to mention as well as you can why you would choose the stage. General strategies, breaking characters, etc are good, especially if the strategies can affect multiple characters at once (such as Frigate Orpheon's right side ruining tether characters).[/collapse]
Current Discussion:
Smashville (Begins on Page 14)


Smashville is most likely the most used stage in tournament play. It is extremely neutral, aside from the scrooging strategy. Obviously, most people actually choose this stage because of the balloon and because KK Slider is there on weekends, taking time off of his busy schedule to play for people who are playing video games for money. Anyways, there's a moving platform, and besides that, the stage is flat and normal. How great is this neutral for our princess, and should it be her main starter stage?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82% from main platform and 74% from the moving platform (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at).
Stage Hazards:
THE BALLOON - This balloon will distract you and everyone around you. Don't be fooled by its innocent appearance. You will go after it, and you will go for balloon points. One good thing you can do with it is use it to gently unstale one of your attacks. One bad thing you can do is fair it or nair it, making those stale. But in the end, balloon points decide the true winner in spirit (not in tournament placements, sadly). Oh, and I guess they have the potential to mess with projectiles...once in a while. Chances are low for that, though.
Moving Platform - It's either a hazard or a great addition, depending on the character you're playing against. If I remember correctly, getting a grab up on this stage and making it aerial release actually lets you get off an usmash on MK, which is cool. Also, you can use this platform as a potential safer haven against chaingrab characters like ICs and Dedede. However, remember that MKs and, to a lesser extent, Pit can scrooge using this platform, going from side to side under the stage without having to worry about grabbing edges.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against:
Might Have an Advantage Here Against:
Might Have Problems Here Against: Ice Climbers, Snake, Zelda
Possible Ban Against: Wolf
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
Beware that balloon. It will haunt you.


Strategies: (coming soon!)

Peach Weekly Stage Discussion: Final Destination

Page 1:
Final Destination (Pages 1-3)


What most consider the most neutral of stages, this stage is completely flat, with rounded edges below that can prove a threat to quite a few characters, as it isn't always a 100% guarantee that they'll snag the edge. One of the better training stages, as the arrows on the stage set up a guideline for distance. How will Peach fare on here?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82% (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Possibly the area next to the edge under the stage, as it can catch your parasol if you miss-aim and won't snap you to the edge, killing you.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Snake, Wario, Captain Falcon
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Ike
Might Have Problems Here Against: Lucario, Luigi, Meta Knight
Possible Ban Against: Falco*, Dedede, Lucas, Pit, ROB
MUST BAN Against: Diddy Kong*, Ice Climbers, Fox, Samus, Pikachu
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be based off of how other Peaches rate it)

Notes:
-Either ban Jungle Japes Final Destination for Falco. It's up to the player, and it's become clear that it truly comes down to a matter of preference, but one or the other MUST be banned.
-Diddy has other options, but if you seriously don't know what to ban, this is, on average, his best stage.

Strategies: Coming soon


Lylat Cruise (Pages 3-4)


A very commonly struck stage, Lylat features 3 platforms (similar to Battlefield, but all about the same height), and a main stage which turns side to side as the fight goes on. This makes recovering extremely difficult for characters, which is why it's generally not played on. Could this stage have some hidden potential for Peach, or will it be the same story as with most other characters? Let's hear your opinions!

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82 from middle platform/74% from bottom platform (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Edges move up and down with the ship, making them slightly unreliable.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against: Wolf (will most likely ban it though)
Recommended Counterpick Against: Falco, Fox, Kirby
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Lucas, Dedede
Might Have Problems Here Against: Marth, Pit, Wario
Possible Ban Against: Donkey Kong, Zero Suit Samus
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: 70/100

Notes:

Strategies:

MenoUnderwater said:

For Lylat, I give it a 70/100.

It's a stage that really needs to get accustomed to, but it offers her several benefits. The two side platforms are the same height as the sweetspot of the usmash - like on Battlefield. Coxing your opponents to land on them by constantly sending them upwards with ftilt, dtilt, and even up throw can land you some great KO opportunities. I'd recommend unleashing usmashes on the tips of the platforms - players like rolling to those edges.

Same thing can be done when their recovering from above, try to wall them from the rest of the stage via upwards thrown turnips and luring toward the platforms. Keep an eye on the ledge though and keep a dash attack at the ready.

Peach also gains an easy to land utilt, along with all the benefits of multiple platforms - her recovery goes unaffected by the tilting unless careless, while simultaneously wrecking others.

I like using this stage against Dedede - the warpy ground breaks his chaingrabs.

Of course, you can't groundfloat, and you might have to time your autocancels a bit earlier, but once we're past that this stage is great.

Click to expand...

Pokemon Stadium 1 (PS1) (Page 5)


One of my personal favorite stages in Melee returns with a vengeance. Pokemon Stadium 1 was a great stage in Melee, which was a relatively common counterpick aside from the main neutral stages. However, one major change in Brawl drastically hurt its playability. The edges on this level are unforgiving, and without proper aim, you will plummet to your death (slowly, of course, but surely). Does this map have any features that aid Peach?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - Need to find out*
Stage Hazards: Edge is extremely deceptive, if too close to the stage, you will NOT snap. Very unforgiving, and there's nothing you can do once that happens.
GRASS STAGE: Two platforms in the middle, one on the right (no hazards)
FIRE STAGE: Tree (?) pops up on the left with platforms and a hut with a platform. HAZARD: TREE THING IS PERFECT FOR MANY INFINITES, ESPECIALLY DEDEDE'S
WATER STAGE: Windmill on the left, two platforms on the right. SMALL HAZARD: Windmill interferes with movement in this game.
ROCK STAGE: Large rock appears on the left, which is difficult to get around. Also, an assortment of platforms in the middle. Middle is used a lot with upward trapping.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Ness, Pit
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Fox, Falco
Might Have Problems Here Against:
Possible Ban Against: Zero Suit Samus
MUST BAN Against: King Dedede
Reliability Rating: 65/100 (will be based off of how other Peaches rate it)

Notes:
Stage is not covered for some reason in the Project Vertical topic. Will check later today.

Strategies:

VaNz said:

Pros

- Normal Field is a generic flat level. Good for Peach's float. and it's easy to punish a grounded opponent on those platforms.
- Weirdo ledges make it really easy to stage spike someone with UMBRELLA.
- The Windmill. Peach ***** that region of the stage. get your opponent there, and keep them there til you can kill them. Dsmash alot.
- Water level (with the three stack platforms). idk why, but peach is just good there. Utilt away when your opponent decides it's a good idea to be up there. Utilt covers the ENTIRETY of the 'nest' platform. so abuse that.
Cons
- MOUNTAIN TERRAIN. this transformation BLOWS for peach. be prepared to have your balls camped off. Pick a corner, stay there and pull turnips until you get something good. (that is if your opponent remains stationary somewhere else)
- Fire Terrain. it's just annoying. peach doesn't have any wall infinites (None that are easily executed), so no help there. go to the spot under the branch and just pull turnips. the only decent thing about it is that you can tech anything down there. so stay in that area at high percents.
- Janky ledges. while Peach can use them well, they can be used just as well against her. think twice about aggressive edge guards.

Click to expand...

MenoUnderwater said:

What is this about the ledges on PS1 being janky? They're probably the easiest ledges to grab unto in the game. If you get caught underneath them just DI toward the ledge and Peach will grab it. One of my favorite tricks is to actually poke underneath the thin ledge with the parasol for a second and then catch the ledge. It's much easier than it sounds.

This is actually my second favorite neutral after Battlefield. It combines the campyness of FD with the platform play of Battlefield. The transformations themselves give you tons of fun options, but they can easily be overwhelming.

I disagree though that Peach is bad in the ground area. Just stay in the center bunker thing. Peach excels in covering above her, which is the only way to get at her in that position. I'm certain there are moves that can get you from the side (Zamus comes to mind), but a lot of characters simply fail. MK for one can't touch you.

The wall in the fire terrain isn't great but the tree corner is pretty awesome. The parasol ledge trick I explained above actually covers the entire thing.

And as you know if you read my usmash guide, PS1 is littered with little spots all over the place in every transformation. Abuse this.

Avoid Dedede, but bring everybody else here. MK, Falco, Marth (I'm curious about Snake). It's not the strongest counterpick, but it'll do. And if anything else, use it as your starter if you have it available.
I give it a 60/100 - meaning more often than not, it'll be a positive stage for her.

Click to expand...

Pokemon Stadium 2 (PS2) (Page 5)


The sequel to the above stage, Pokemon Stadium 2's specialty is very similar to its predecessor. The stadium changes between multiple different elements, with the default "normal type" setting being used between each element. These elements don't affect the stage physically as the first, but instead, it changes how the stage acts. With the Ice area you slide around, with Electric there are treadmills, with Flying low gravity, and with Ground, the earth deforms, jutting up on the left side enough to sever horizontal movement. Will it surpass its predecessor?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 83% from ground/75% from the platforms on the normal stage (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards:
ELECTRIC STAGE: Fast Treadmills aimed at the edges replace ground level. Mess up spacing intensely and drop characters off the side. Makes it difficult for some characters to recover.
FLYING STAGE: Low gravity, making aerials somewhat more difficult to aim and slowing the pace of the fight down. Peach can still float.
GROUND STAGE: A mountain of earth juts out on the left side, but no major hazards other than that.
ICE STAGE: The ground is covered in ice, which makes characters slide back and forth. This is used especially for quickly moving smashes, so beware! Interesting note: Peach can catch glidetossed turnips here, not only setting up Snake-like horizontal sliding, but can set up great smash potential.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against:
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Pikachu, Wario
Might Have Problems Here Against:
Possible Ban Against:
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: 20/100

Notes:
-Wasn't much mentioned on the CP topic involving PS2

Strategies:

Elucifur said:

Um, for the ice transformation, you can glide-toss and recatch the turnip and do it repeatedly because Peach doesn't throw it very far and the turnip falls down slowly. Like ice skating, except you're glide tossing, so it's like... glide skating?
Peach slides a lot further and faster. It's very useful for doing mindgames and stuff like sliding smashes. (I think.) And if the opponent is at a low percent, I think you can chaingrab them with fthrow for a bit because if you do a running grab, you slide along the ground while you throw them.
I have a replay of doing that stuff, except it's on a custom stage completely made of the ice blocks, but still. <_> I can't upload it because I don't have a capture card, though.

Oh, and you can't "skate" with anything other than a turnip. The other items get thrown too far away. I've tested it with suit pieces, Mr. Saturns, bob-ombs, and beam swords.

Click to expand...

Delfino Plaza (Begins on Page 5)


One of the most varied stages in the game, Delfino has its fair share of obstacles which can be abused by Peach (or abused on her). Water makes characters with spikes spike friendly, and with Peach's poor air dodge, she can be a real sitting duck in the water. There are also walls for infiniting and a few parts of the stage are walk-off edges, which is useful against Lucas and Ness, but make Dedede a happy camper, especially with the wall option as well. This level is a game of risk, but in the end, is it a worthy counterpick, or will it drown with the other Mario stages?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82% from main ground level (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Water, walk-off edges at some sections, walls for infiniting
The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against:
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Ice Climbers, Lucas, Fox, Falco, Wolf
Might Have Problems Here Against:
Possible Ban Against: Yoshi, Dedede, Jigglypuff, (especially if Pirate Ship is a banned stage)
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: 55/100 (though some Peaches DO love using it, many Peaches do not)

Notes:
-Can chaingrab Lucas/Ness to death here.

Strategies:

VaNz said:

Pros
- Shifting terrain doesn't bother peach.
- Water. Peach travels through water and handles swimming opponents nicely
- Close blast zones on the sides.
- She can shark under the main stage.
- Aggressive Edge guarding is encouraged since you will NEVER get stage spiked.
- Peach has like a million ways to stall while you wait for the next stage shift (this saves you from dying!)

Cons
- Peach is good on water, but she'd be better if she had a spike
- Dedede Can CG you til death

i really believe this stage is like god's gift to Peach because of many advantages/ opportunities she gains. learn to recognize the stage shifts really early so you can plan your next move. Each setting has something Peach abuse. Also, the setting with the 3 pillars and the water. The Ceiling is relatively low and your Utilts / Uairs will kill nice and Early. So take advantage. The only setting i'm not too fond of is the one where you're on the building. But it's rough terrain gives you cover to pull and toss turnips. The Blast zones are EXTREMELY close (So Fair becomes ****.) And there are no ledges!! Tether characters and other characters that rely on the ledge become helpless (Falco, Snake, GaW, Olimar.. etc) So even this terrain is a blessing even if i don't like it. I almost forgot to mention that it wrecks Dedede's chain grab :D

I'd give this stage a 9/10. I feel like it deserves a little more, but maybe i just like the stage too much haha.

People to Bring here: Fox, Falco, Wolf, Marth, Snake, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Captain Falcon, Diddy Kong

No need to Ever ban this stage. No matter who she's against, this will never be Peach's worst stage.

Click to expand...

Norfair (Begins on Page 7)


The ultimate lava level, Norfair always keeps players on their toes. Deaths on the sides could be saved by a lava wave if you're lucky, as can deaths on the bottom. The lava can kill at a pretty decent %, which is beneficial for Peaches, but obviously is a bad thing as well. The many platforms makes for great edge canceled turnip pulls practice, as it is arguably the best stage to use it. How will Norfair...fair for Peach?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82% from main ground level (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Lava from the bottom, lava from the sides, pillars of lava shooting from the back, and a giant lava tidal wave
The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.

(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against: Dedede
Recommended Counterpick Against: Ice Climbers
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Olimar
Might Have Problems Here Against: Lucas, Toon Link, Diddy Kong
Possible Ban Against: Bowser, Ganondorf (if Pirate Ship is not legal), Link, Luigi, Ness, Pokemon Trainer
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
-Edge-canceled freepulls are very effective here.

Strategies: (coming soon!)


Halberd (Begins on Page 8)


The best character's home, Halberd is the huge ship that can spell trouble for people who are not weary of the hazards. With a claw, ray gun, and giant artillery shell under Meta Knight's (or whoever is driving) hands, the ship can cause some real havoc on stage. The stage's ceiling is relatively low, being the lowest of the non-moving counterpick stages and neutral stages, and only second to Rainbow Cruise in vertical blast zone shortness. This is most Snakes' stage of choice. With MK behind the wheel, is there anything Peach can do to succeed?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 77% from main ground level (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Opening hangar can kill if you stay on the ground floor too long
ON THE SHIP:Ray gun can rack up lots of damage (DI/SDI out as quickly as you can) with final hit having knockback, Halberd claw aims at one person and takes a swing to kill, ship fires artillery shell and causes massive explosion, sides underneath stage are very solid, and if recovering incorrectly can trap below

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Jigglypuff
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Meta Knight
Might Have Problems Here Against: Toon Link
Possible Ban Against: :shiek: Sheik, Yoshi
MUST BAN Against: Snake
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
Shortest vertical ceiling of the non-moving Neutral/Counter-Pick stages (only Rainbow Cruise is shorter)

Strategies: (coming soon!)


Jungle Japes (Begins on Page 10)


What many Peach players considered her best stage back when the game was young, Jungle Japes causes trouble for many characters in the game, namely those with bad recoveries. If a player isn't careful, he or she could get an unlucky chomp from the Klaptrap below, which means certain death. With the ability to regain her float right out of water, Peach does not have to worry much about the water if she knows how to handle it. Will Japes retain its old Peach supremacy, or has the metagame evolved beyond it?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 100% from lowest, central platform (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards: Water - Water is the biggest thing to watch out for here. Unlike in Melee, where water was pretty much guaranteed death, water here drags you to the side. You can jump out, but it has to be relatively quickly, or else you will be screwed. With Peach, make sure to get your float off as fast as possible, because it does recharge.
Klaptrap - Klappy here is a guaranteed kill if touched, and comes at a set pace throughout the match. If you know he's coming, try to hit someone into him. Otherwise, be very careful.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Bowser, Fox, Ganondorf, Ike, Link, Luigi, Mario, Olimar, Pokemon Trainer, Snake, Sonic, Yoshi, Zelda, ZSS/Zamus
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Marth, Ness, Samus, Sheik, Toon Link, Wolf
Might Have Problems Here Against: Donkey Kong
Possible Ban Against: Falco, Jigglypuff, ROB
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
* Tallest vertical ceiling of the stages not permanently banned (New Pork City being the only stage taller)
* Water restores float.
* The klaptrap is on a 10 second timer (every single time the clock's last digit is a "7", the klaptrap will be on the right side).
* It's not an instant kill at early percents (DI to the RIGHT if spiked, and you can usually recover - holding to the left might either get you spiked by the second reemergence, or have you carried off by the river).


Strategies: (coming soon!)


Green Greens (Begins on Page 10)


With the return of Green Greens in Major League Gaming (MLG), I believe it's time we discussed this more seriously. A few Peaches consider this to be her best counterpick against Meta Knight, due to the wide horizontal boundaries (if in the middle) and extremely short ceiling. This is also a stage which can be a real hazard with its...hazards. What do you think, is this stage viable enough to actually consider in counterpicking?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 75% from middle stage ground (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at)
Stage Hazards:
Blocks - Blocks can be a real nuisance in this stage for everyone, especially if the strange Explosion Glitch happens. There are two blocks: one with a star and one with a bomb. The bomb explodes (GASP).
Apples - Apples can heal, hurt, or, very rarely, explode (?).
Wind - Every once in a while, Whispy will turn to a direction and blow gusts of wind.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against: Meta Knight
Recommended Counterpick Against: Game & Watch, Jigglypuff, Lucario, ROB
Might Have an Advantage Here Against:
Might Have Problems Here Against: Donkey Kong, Dedede, Ike
Possible Ban Against:
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
* Tied for shortest ceiling height of the potentially legal stages with Rainbow Cruise.


Strategies: (coming soon!)


Castle Siege (Begins on Page 11)


The castle from Fire Emblem has plenty of tricks behind its...siege (*rimshot*). With three different stages rotating in order, there are three different places to consider, and each has its advantages and disadvantages. Statues, walkoffs, and janky edges are the primary things to watch for here, as well as a relatively long stage, which makes horizontal kills slightly more difficult. Will this stage prove to suit the noble princess, or will she forfeit this fortress and move to a safer kingdom?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 82% from lowest section in Stage1, 88% from floor in Stage2, and 81% from lowest angle edge of Stage3 (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at).
Stage Hazards:
Janky Edges, Stage 1: These can be absolutely brutal to characters with vertical or diagonal recoveries like Peach. Make sure to be even more careful than normal aiming your parasol, because if you catch the lip of the edge, you are dead. HOWEVER, make sure that if this does happen, you do not drop the parasol, as the stage may change before you die.
Walkoffs, Stage 2: As most should know by now, the bottom of the stage is a walkoff. This is good in the fact that you can't get gimped as hard recovering, but bad if facing a character like Dedede. If you have to face Dedede, stay on the top platforms at all costs, do not approach. Also, you can abuse your walkoffs (with Ness/Lucas) as well.
Statues, Stage 2: The statues on the second stage block off projectiles and other attacks rather effectively, but gets destroyed after a certain amount of damage to them. Can stall attacks, so be weary of attacks like Lucas' dsmash, Ness' PKT2, and other things. You can bomber off of the statue for fun and mindgames.
Rotating Stage, Stage 3: The thing to be worried about in Stage 3 is its rotating nature. It isn't something that Peach has to worry as much about, just consider it like Lylat, but slightly more forgiving.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Meta Knight, Luigi
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Falco, Lucas, Pit, Zero Suit Samus
Might Have Problems Here Against: Dedede, Pokemon Trainer, Yoshi
Possible Ban Against:
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
* Pausing the game while the stage is going through a transition will end the transition quickly, since the game continues to load the stage as the game is paused. A similar effect happens with special moves that involve character switching. (interesting tidbit)



Strategies:

EdreesesPieces said:

As Peach, you can never really go wrong with Castle Siege. She has enough playstyles to handle ANYBODY on this stage. Her ability to avoid grabs via float makes the walk off not a huge deal against chaingrabbers like Falco and DDD. This is my counterpick of choice against MK and several other characters.

[...]

You won't find it a good stage if you choose to play the same playstyle on each transformation. The key is to switch it up. Coupled that with the survival/kill thing I mentioned earlier, the small interferences that can help, and the large ceiling, and this is a solid Peach counterpick and IMO the best against MK.

Reasons its good against MK:
-T2 and T3 you will never be gimped by shuttle loop. Anytime you are in danger of being edgeguarded just recover high, MK's jumps are too slow and he won't be able to chase you like he does on Smashville or BF to the top. Plus the ceilling is huge. I got hit by shuttle loop while recovering towrads the top, and DI'd up, at like 160% and survived before. MK player got pissed. It removes Peach's biggest weakness on MK and that is getting back on the stage.

-T2 doesn't even have edgeguarding. MK without an edgeguarding advantage = not so great. Also you can fair kill MK here rather easily since they are walk offs. True he can do the same to you, but now you are even in kill aspect, rather than him having the advantage.

-Camp like a MOTHER on T3. Turnip abuse on MK. There's just so much space, even tornado isnt' that effective, because you have too much space to operate and deal with it.

-T1 makes it hard for MK to approach you becuase of up tilt and f smash, if you hide under the platform. Try to stay on the right side, its favorable for characters with projectiles as they will fall down on the other opponent if thrown forward. Also MK cannot abuse his recovery too much since the stage vertically does not go down too far compared to neutrals like FD.

Click to expand...

Brinstar (Begins on Page 12)


Brinstar is a classic stage from Melee that gets a surprising amount of use in Brawl. With its sharkable main platform, breakable portions, and short horizontal blast zones, this stage is a favorite for characters like Meta Knight and Ness. It has been said that this stage is also a preferred counter pick for Peach, at least back in the old days. Is this stage really all that it's cracked up to be, or will Peach burn up in its acid?

Horizontal Blast Zone: Getting references
Ceiling Blast Zone: Average Height - 81% from lowest section of main platform, 74% from the side platforms, and 68% from the top platform (Amount of damage a fully charged Up Smash from Mario can kill at).
Stage Hazards:
Acid - Brinstar's lower blast zone is commonly flooded with acid, which, if hit, will pop the character back up, preventing floor KOs and sometimes killing if the % is high enough. If the acid is low enough, it might not save the character, killing them below.
Stage Splits: If the "bubbles" on the middle-right of the main platform all break, the stage will break in half and spread out, which could mess with recoveries and mess with spacing.
Close Horizontal Blastzones - Learn Brinstar's blast zones. Its horizontal blast zones are one of the shortest in the game. This can give characters with great horizontal kills a great buff.

The below will change with player input, I'm basing it on the location of the CP/Ban in MenoUnderwater's great Counterpick topic.
(BOLD/UNDERLINE'd characters symbolize importance):
HIGHLY Recommended Counterpick Against:
Recommended Counterpick Against: Ice Climbers, Marth, Diddy Kong
Might Have an Advantage Here Against: Falco, Pikachu, ROB, Samus, Zero Suit Samus
Might Have Problems Here Against: Fox, Ganondorf, Kirby
Possible Ban Against: Ness, Lucas, Luigi
MUST BAN Against:
Reliability Rating: ?/100 (will be decided by the Peaches)

Notes:
* It is possible to perform the Earthquake Glitch here with Kirby, if a side platform is broken.



Strategies: (coming soon!)

Peach Weekly Stage Discussion: Final Destination

More for later discussion.

Peach vs Falco is not winnable here. Ban this or Japes.

Pwned.

I thought we just used these for stage info...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194857
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184660
Second one's pretty old though D:

Aw Praxis, you stole his reserved spot

Nice thread though.

airgemini said:

I thought we just used these for stage info...
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194857
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=184660
Second one's pretty old though D:

Aw Praxis, you stole his reserved spot

Nice thread though.

Click to expand...

The first one (and the general discussion topic) is what inspired me to make this. The CP topic is great, but it's very specific to each character, and not to the stage itself. I figured I'd make this so Peach players can talk about stage strategies and whatnot. I can't count how many times I've gone to a tournament and thought "man, I don't know what stage to pick against this guy, guess I'll just go to Halberd" (my go-to CP stage for some reason), then finding out that I could've picked something better.

I'll be sure to mention the second one in my first post though. Even if it is rather old. Think of this as a rediscussion topic if anything, since I knew there'd be another topic like this.

Also, if there are any sections you would recommend I add (I just added Stage Hazards), I will.

I might make a new topic after this one with the ironed out layout (as I feel I might need more space if I do every stage). However, I'll roll with this one for now.

Just because you have a disadvantage versus Falco here, doesn't mean its unwinnable. You should easily ban jungle japes vs falco mains over this. I love FD. It's one of my favorite stages for Peach because it's easier to read people's air dodges for upsmash, which is a key kill. Nothing much else to say here though LOL.

By the way Xyless, I did some magic and you took over as second post. Pwned, Praxis!

Epic, thanks a bunch Edrees.

Just because you have a disadvantage versus Falco here, doesn't mean its unwinnable.

Click to expand...

It is if your opponent is DEHF.

I TRIED AND TRIED SO HARD...T_T

Whoo, I'm going to love this thread.

Final D...

More often than not, I ban this stage. It's Campsville and I'd actually prefer to take Falco to Jungle Japes - at least I can start disregarding his usmash there. Even then, anyone with a projectile is annoying here. Dedede, Lucas, Pit - I just make sure I never have to deal with that by banning FD off the bat.

It does have it's uses though. If you remember, Peach has a projectile herself - and a decent one at that. I like bringing MK, Ike, and C. Falcon here for turnip camping.

FD does have it's specialties though. Bring Wario here so your grab release -> usmash is never interrupted. Bring Snake here to avoid all his platform shenanigans he brings on other stages.

And just a little trick I can't find a use for: you know underneath the ledge, that little triangular wedge? If you float against it, you'll curve down along side it. *shrug*

Good, we need one of these badly. My 'guide' is garbage, don't use. Lylat one of Peach's best stages? Oh dear me....

FD is my favourite stage. The lip is seriously annoying though. If I'm unsure about a match up, I usually take my opponent here since there's no platforms for me to get stuck on

Falco is one of the big reasons for this stage being first by the way. So we can get the back/forth finished early (until we get to JJ anyway).

Also, don't forget to rate the stage out of 100!

Rickerdy-doo-da-day said:

Good, we need one of these badly. My 'guide' is garbage, don't use. Lylat one of Peach's best stages? Oh dear me....

Click to expand...

I like that guide AND Lylat.

Anyways, I'd give FD 45/100.

It's good, a little less than half the time. I just think Peach does better overall with platforms, and in tight spaces.

Lylat is just one of those stages that is hated by pretty much everyone, but it's great against a lot of characters simply because of its horrible edges.

Also, a question, would you guys rather go down the list for the stages, or should I mix it up a bit?

I think you should go down the list by category (Neutrals, CPs, CP/Banned) and mix up the stage discussions within that category.

Hmm, FD is my counterpick against Diddy Kong ^_^;. I haven't lost to a Diddy Kong on that stage in months. :D

KOS-MOS said:

Hmm, FD is my counterpick against Diddy Kong ^_^;. I haven't lost to a Diddy Kong on that stage in months. :D

Click to expand...

This right here, is a man.

Dark.Pch said:

Wha, Peach can beat falco on FD. again, don't let his camping tell you otherwise. then again, I don't know why I bother.

Click to expand...

Your and Praxis' comments are fine so far but just as a pre empt to everybody: Please, let's not go down this road agian, lol.

Peaches only hate FD vs. Falco though b/c they have no ground game and I think it's important to have some sort of ground game to be successful against Falcock.

I'll probably just do the ratings myself if no one else jumps in based on what everyone says.

that's cool. but yea the perfect approach works. it's just falco is tough on FD coz u have to predict so much. a lot of the time you're perfect shield approaching, sometimes you're camping hoping to bait an illusion so u can ground float nair or just be within roll distance of the landing point to **** him. it's just so much guess work and it's so tiring coz sh instant side b is so godly. at any rate, just ban japes instead of this. ya just gotta learn to fight falco here b/c japes isn't an option unless you live on the east coast where japes is already banned.

Razmakazi said:

japes isn't an option unless you live on the east coast where japes is already banned.

Click to expand...

BUT: Florida is considering greatly to put Japes in CP

eat your heart out pit<--

i don't really like FD unless its against like Marth or Zelda then i tolerate it, other than being camping heaven i have personal reasons for not liking the stage.

I dislike the stage because of how big it is D:
especially with Peach's poor dash speed and only avg air speed, getting to the opponent can be a hassle in and of itself, esp. if they have a projectile [which will most likely be better than our turnip :/]
though, overall, it's an alright stage :O
I feel that it's a truly neutral stage, but I'm going to have to agree with meno on:

It's good, a little less than half the time. I just think Peach does better overall with platforms, and in tight spaces.

Click to expand...

This is like the only stage I ever play on. For some reason it just feels... more comfortable to me. But yes, the lip is very annoying. It's basically the only way my friend ever beats me.

Edit: My friend plays G&W, if that makes any difference lol. But he isn't the best of players. :X I still think I would have the advantage.

The empty stage is pretty nice. I prefer to fight here than Battlefield, since I epic fail o Battlefield as Peach

just out of curiosity, could you name the reasons that you think FD is better than BF for me, please? :O

because float is still parallel in BF and I think that Peach can also benefit from platforms as well?

I agree that it isn't her worst personal stage, but what makes it her [possibly] best? :O
[in relation to the rest of the cast as well, not just diddy]

okay, thank you for the clarification :3

guess I'll just have to get used to running that entire length ;P
[even in games, I'm lazy D:]

Not to mention BF isn't that great of a Diddy stage in comparison to FD or, if the Diddy is good enough, Norfair.

The next stage will be coming tomorrow (Monday). Any last words?

I would love to hear a little discussion that didn't involve Falco and Diddy.

Next up: Lylat Cruise

I bring this up because I know not a lot of people like it, but from my experience, it's pretty reliable as a CP just because so many people's recoveries get screwed.

Discussion...HO!

Lylat is one of Fox's worst stages. I'd say one of his top 3 worst. He has issues with recovery, but more importantly, the platforms are just low enough to screw up foxs sh aerials and other aerial tactics. Fox's should constantly be moving, and the platforms impede this. The shifting of the ship also messes up his laser spam. Also, this stage got a high ceiling, making upsmash less effective.

This is a great counterpick vs Fox.

Pgh-M@v-Pgh said:

Lylat is one of Fox's worst stages. I'd say one of his top 3 worst. He has issues with recovery, but more importantly, the platforms are just low enough to screw up foxs sh aerials and other aerial tactics. Fox's should constantly be moving, and the platforms impede this. Also this stage got a high ceiling, making upsmash less effective.

This is a great counterpick vs Fox.

Click to expand...

Yeah, Lylat is a great counter for all the space animals.