Peach Stage Discussion: Smashville

[Cia]

I personally hate the stage. but peach gets a ****load of advantages here.

Pros

- Low narrow platforms are perfect for tech chasing a grounded opponent. one Utilt or Fair will cover all of your opponent's tech options. Utilt is easier to land because of disjointed hitbox, but Fair is more likely to kill.

- High ceiling = living longer against METAKNIGHT!! and other character. but only metaknight matters =P also, it's alot easier to toad shuttle loop here. so go for it.

- recovery isn't really an issue here like it is for many other characters.

- Float off stage > Bair/ Nair/ Umbrella/ TURNIP stage spike is REALLY common here. so get your fill.

- Un-even terrain is likely to throw off Dedede's chain grab here. (he kind of matters.. maybe) and with Peach's float, that's also not an issue for her.

Cons

- it's lylat cruise.. weird things will happen. a lot. (keep in mind that you will also be more susceptible to stage spikes as well, so don't get wreckless off the ledge)

- be careful when trying to sweep spot the ledge at the last possible frame. the stage tilts so the timing will constantly vary.

----

overall, i'd say this is her forth best neutral. but it gets better depending on the match up. Use this stage for Metaknight, Olimar, Toon Link, Diddy, LUCARIO, Lucas, Ness, Sheik, ALL spacies and ROB. (does anyone play him anymore?)

I would say that this is another stage not worth wasting a ban on, but definitely stage strike against against jigglypuff, Donkey Kong, Zero Suit Samus, Wario. They work the platforms really well, and the platforms save Wario from grab release.

i'd give the stage a 6 out 10 for Peach. it's too good.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I'm not sure where you got the idea the ceiling was high, but it's the same height as final D, smashville and battlefield.

 

[Xyless]

Technically, from the lowest platform, Lylat is the lowest ceiling of the neutrals.

 

[Moocowalex]

You mean highest ceiling... right?

I'm assuming this is just based on measuring the lowest point to the point where you die at, and that the point you die at is always at a certain height in each level, but the actual platforms are on different heights.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Does anyone have a link to all the stage information that people tested? There was a list of stage ceilings from highest to lowest..posted somewhere. I can't find it. It would actually be useful to copy and paste some of that information right into our weekly stage discussion compendium of our own. It takes the lowest platform/grounded position on any stage and compares it to the ceiling blast zone and ranks all the stages.

 

[Xyless]

Does anyone have a link to all the stage information that people tested? There was a list of stage ceilings from highest to lowest..posted somewhere. I can't find it. It would actually be useful to copy and paste some of that information right into our weekly stage discussion compendium of our own. It takes the lowest platform/grounded position on any stage and compares it to the ceiling blast zone and ranks all the stages.

I've been pulling my statistics for vertical kill height from Thinkaman's amazing Project Vertical topic (LINK). Ceiling heights are the last section.

Maybe I'll make one that is based on Peach's up smash instead of Mario's though, so we can know. It'd be good to know.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Stage Ceiling Height:
(highest to lowest, from bottom platform)
(Amount of damage required for grounded Mario to be KO'd by an undiminished, fully charged Mario up-smash. Less damage needed = lower ceiling. Damages/heights are listed for major platforms as well on some stages, in ascending order. Some stages that were difficult (like Delfino) were not closely examined, and some stages no one cares about were skipped entirely.)

New Pork City: 118 (Bottom)
Jungle Japes: 100/97/93
Summit: 94 (Bottom) 71 (Top)
Green Hill Zone: 89/80/74
Luigi's Mansion: 88/84/78/67
Mario Circuit: 88/81/73
Shadow Moses: 88/80/70
Onett: 88
Pirate Ship: 85
Skyworld: 85/80/76/70
Havenbow: 85
Pictochat: 84
Eldin: 83
Pokemon Stadium 2: 83/75
Battlefield: 82/75/68
FD: 82
Delfino: 82
Norfair: 82/74/67
Yoshi's Island: 82/75
Lylat Cruise: 82/74
Spear Pillar: 82
Castle Siege: 82-88-81
Distant Planet: 82
Smashville: 82/74
Frigate: 81-77
Brinstar: 81/74/68
Wario Ware: 79
Halberd: 77/75/68-73/65
Aero Dive: 77
FlatZone2: 77
Rainbow Ride: 75
Green Greens: 75
Yoshi's Island (Melee): 74
Corneria: 74/70/57
Mushroomy: 67

You mean this? I suggest putting it in the OP

I don't really like Lylat. Ground Floating is messed up there. There's a fair amount of room to recover though and the tilting does nasty things to some other characters

 

[EdreesesPieces]

yeah that's useful. Except there's no such thing as a stage called rainbow ride, it's called rainbow cruise, LOL.

 

[M@v]

You mean this? I suggest putting it in the OP

I don't really like Lylat. Ground Floating is messed up there. There's a fair amount of room to recover though and the tilting does nasty things to some other characters

Don't mind If I borrow that do you? That list could be really helpful for our stage discussion. ^_^

 

[deepseadiva]

Just FYI, the way I'm rating stages out of 100:

0/100 - Worst Peach stage

• Gives her many disadvantages with no advantages

50/100 - Neutral Peach stage

• Gives her no notable advantages or disadvantages
• Mainly match-up dependent

100/100 - Best Peach stage

• Gives her many advantages with no disadvantages

For Lylat, I give it a 70/100.

It's a stage that really needs to get accustomed to, but it offers her several benefits. The two side platforms are the same height as the sweetspot of the usmash - like on Battlefield. Coxing your opponents to land on them by constantly sending them upwards with ftilt, dtilt, and even up throw can land you some great KO opportunities. I'd recommend unleashing usmashes on the tips of the platforms - players like rolling to those edges.

Same thing can be done when their recovering from above, try to wall them from the rest of the stage via upwards thrown turnips and luring toward the platforms. Keep an eye on the ledge though and keep a dash attack at the ready.

Peach also gains an easy to land utilt, along with all the benefits of multiple platforms - her recovery goes unaffected by the tilting unless careless, while simultaneously wrecking others.

I like using this stage against Dedede - the warpy ground breaks his chaingrabs.

Of course, you can't groundfloat, and you might have to time your autocancels a bit earlier, but once we're past that this stage is great.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Don't mind If I borrow that do you? That list could be really helpful for our stage discussion. ^_^

Lol be my guest I didn't make it I got it from that thread Xyless linked (it hasn't been posted in for about 2 months though)

And I've found it difficult to consistantly get Up Smashes on the Lylat platforms unlike Battlefields, I think it has something to do with the tilting

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think 70/100 is spot on!

 

[Metatitan]

yoshi dies on lylat, take him there. i honestly love this stage, sometimes the platforms and tilting can mess Fair up but its still amazing

 

[Xyless]

I CP'd here a few times, it worked better than I expected.

The edge doesn't work against MK though, which is really annoying (so broken).

 

[Meru.]

You mean this? I suggest putting it in the OP

I don't really like Lylat. Ground Floating is messed up there. There's a fair amount of room to recover though and the tilting does nasty things to some other characters

Where is Pokemon Stadium 1? ;O Is it the same as Pokemon Stadium 2?

 

[Cia]

when are we going to move on to the next stage?

 

[Xyless]

Tomorrow (trying to update every Monday).

 

[deepseadiva]

Where is Pokemon Stadium 1? ;O Is it the same as Pokemon Stadium 2?

Good question. I always thought that list was a bit inconsistent. Maybe I'll retest everything. Yoshi's Island just doesn't... seem right - I swear it's higher.

 

[Xyless]

I've already noticed that the test isn't completely right. Peach's listed kill % is wrong, for starters.

 

[Xyless]

Sorry about the lack of an update this week. Was busy with finals, and didn't really have time to put together the next one.

There'll be a double-header this week to make up for it, though.

 

[Xyless]

Pokemon Stadium 1 & Pokemon Stadium 2

FINALLY AN UPDATE! I figured what better way to do a double-header than with a pair of maps that...are in numerical order?

For this discussion, if you could, make sure to mention what you think of each element, for PS1 in particular.

So...yeah! Back from the dead/finals!

 

[Cia]

Nice..

Pokemon Stadium

Umm.. .. i don't think it's 'bad' for peach. a majority of the time any way.

Pros

- Normal Field is a generic flat level. Good for Peach's float. and it's easy to punish a grounded opponent on those platforms.
- Weirdo ledges make it really easy to stage spike someone with UMBRELLA.
- The Windmill. Peach ***** that region of the stage. get your opponent there, and keep them there til you can kill them. Dsmash alot.
- Water level (with the three stack platforms). idk why, but peach is just good there. Utilt away when your opponent decides it's a good idea to be up there. Utilt covers the ENTIRETY of the 'nest' platform. so abuse that.

Cons

- MOUNTAIN TERRAIN. this transformation BLOWS for peach. be prepared to have your balls camped off. Pick a corner, stay there and pull turnips until you get something good. (that is if your opponent remains stationary somewhere else)
- Fire Terrain. it's just annoying. peach doesn't have any wall infinites (None that are easily executed), so no help there. go to the spot under the branch and just pull turnips. the only decent thing about it is that you can tech anything down there. so stay in that area at high percents.
- Janky ledges. while Peach can use them well, they can be used just as well against her. think twice about aggressive edge guards.

Characters you bring here - No one. There will always be a better counterpick.

Characters you ban against - - and that's only if you MUST ban this. i think there are better stages to ban.

Overall - i'm not too excited about this stage, but it's not really a threat either. i give it a 3 out of 10. matches can very easily go to time here. i've gotten mountain terrain 3 times!! in one match many times before.

Pokemon Stadium 2. i know nothing about this stage. give me like.. 2 days to form an opinion.. lol

 

[deepseadiva]

What is this about the ledges on PS1 being janky? They're probably the easiest ledges to grab unto in the game. If you get caught underneath them just DI toward the ledge and Peach will grab it. One of my favorite tricks is to actually poke underneath the thin ledge with the parasol for a second and then catch the ledge. It's much easier than it sounds.

This is actually my second favorite neutral after Battlefield. It combines the campyness of FD with the platform play of Battlefield. The transformations themselves give you tons of fun options, but they can easily be overwhelming.

Avoid it when facing a Dedede of course, but it's pretty great against anyone with a linear projectile. The transformations let you abuse turnips very well - either throw them over obstacles and bring them to Peach's preferred zone (up close), or just stitchy-hunt until they do. :D

I like Vanz's windmill idea.

I disagree though that Peach is bad in the ground area. Just stay in the center bunker thing. Peach excels in covering above her, which is the only way to get at her in that position. I'm certain there are moves that can get you from the side (Zamus comes to mind), but a lot of characters simply fail. MK for one can't touch you.

The wall in the fire terrain isn't great but the tree corner is pretty awesome. The parasol ledge trick I explained above actually covers the entire thing.

And as you know if you read my usmash guide, PS1 is littered with little spots all over the place in every transformation. Abuse this.

Avoid Dedede, but bring everybody else here. MK, Falco, Marth (I'm curious about Snake). It's not the strongest counterpick, but it'll do. And if anything else, use it as your starter if you have it available.

I give it a 60/100 - meaning more often than not, it'll be a positive stage for her.

PS2? Nobody plays there - but I see potential. We should all take the week to experiment.

 

[Xyless]

Part of the point of this topic is to explore new things about a stage. My perspective has changed radically for Lylat ever since we talked about it, and I've actually come to love it and its janky angles.

 

[Xyless]

Wait, why ZSS? (good for me to know, having her as a backup)

 

[deepseadiva]

I think I remember reading that her whip can hit through objects, like the walls on PS1. Which is bad for us, good for her.

 

[Metatitan]

Ew I don't like battlefield. Anyways I think PS1 is a very good stage for peach, vertical obstacles allow for turnip camping, windmill allows for comboes as Vanz stated, the platforms are placed conveniently and it's overall a nice stage for peach. I don't play on PS2 lol. PS1 I'd give a 7/10

 

[Xyless]

Anyone else? Not sure what to say about PS2, since I don't think I've gone to a tourney which had PS2 be a legal stage, so I don't know how viable it is of a stage for tourney-play.

 

[Elucifur]

Um, for the ice transformation, you can glide-toss and recatch the turnip and do it repeatedly because Peach doesn't throw it very far and the turnip falls down slowly. Like ice skating, except you're glide tossing, so it's like... glide skating?
Peach slides a lot further and faster. It's very useful for doing mindgames and stuff like sliding smashes. (I think.) And if the opponent is at a low percent, I think you can chaingrab them with fthrow for a bit because if you do a running grab, you slide along the ground while you throw them.
I have a replay of doing that stuff, except it's on a custom stage completely made of the ice blocks, but still. <_> I can't upload it because I don't have a capture card, though.

Oh, and you can't "skate" with anything other than a turnip. The other items get thrown too far away. I've tested it with suit pieces, Mr. Saturns, bob-ombs, and beam swords.

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

Um, for the ice transformation, you can glide-toss and recatch the turnip and do it repeatedly because Peach doesn't throw it very far and the turnip falls down slowly. Like ice skating, except you're glide tossing, so it's like... glide skating?
Peach slides a lot further and faster. It's very useful for doing mindgames and stuff like sliding smashes. (I think.) And if the opponent is at a low percent, I think you can chaingrab them with fthrow for a bit because if you do a running grab, you slide along the ground while you throw them.
I have a replay of doing that stuff, except it's on a custom stage completely made of the ice blocks, but still. <_> I can't upload it because I don't have a capture card, though.

Oh, and you can't "skate" with anything other than a turnip. The other items get thrown too far away. I've tested it with suit pieces, Mr. Saturns, bob-ombs, and beam swords.

Peach skating. =D

Interesting concept though and sliding Fsmashes are too good. I will have to try that later on today to see how it works. It could change my opinion about PS2 and maybe actually use it as a counterpick. ^.^

 

[Airgemini]

For PS2 if you're on the ice stage and you're sliding around, you can actually stop your momentum by Dtilting. Try it by glide tossing up and then Dtilting immediately after; you'll stop in place.

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

You could also stop your momentum with your second jab too. =O

 

[Xyless]

And finally, a new update! I'm quite slow at these, aren't I? :blush:

Anyway, on to Delfino!

 

[deepseadiva]

I tried to like PS2 for a month, but... I kinda hate it.

I'll keep at it though, I'm sure the transformations will grow on me. They're completly interesting and super unique of course, I just hate them for some inexplicable reason.

Delfino should be good to read about. I know Vans or Crismas or one of those is completly raving about it. He makes it sound godly - I should play there more often.

 

[Razmakazi]

ps2 is ok but everytime we play meno, you get ***** at the windmills. It's horrible for peach coz she can't use her airgame efficiently. there's no fastfalling so her speed is gone and we're stuck with the full lag of bair and nair. her airdodge sucks too much to use on that transformation and we can't fastfall dair to the ground. it's sooooo bad. xD

 

[Xyless]

Windmill = PS1.

 

[Razmakazi]

loool@xyless xD

y'kno what i mean. the one w/ the bunch of giant windmills that keep every1 floating in the air.

 

[White-Peach]

on that stage you can just peach bomber over and over and gain height :D you're just like wario with a smashball :3

 

[Xyless]

Ahh, now your post makes sense, Raz. Yeah, that transformation alone REALLY messes with Peach's game, since it leaves her extremely vulnerable with that horrible dodge of hers.

 

[hiROI]

PS2 is so emotional for me )':

In the air part, aka Windmill , Peach gets wrecked in my opinion. Her autocancels are destroyed, and Peach isn't the fastest faller in the game, so she is what people call a 'sitting duck'. Also, the Conveyer Belt influences float. This can be good/bad, depending on match up. I give it 4/10. I like my PS1.
This stage is also banned in Florida, btw.