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Yoshi v. Meta Knight
- Thread starter Shiri
- Start date
This is the thread for discussion on the Yoshi v. Meta Knight matchup.
YoshiIslander77z
Smash Apprentice
is it just me or is this match up gettin harder
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I, too, think it's getting harder.
bigman40
Smash Master
It was never easy to begin with. They can just air camp our blind spot and punish stuff that we do.
VSC.D-Torr
Smash Hero
Like Scatz said, it has never been easy. It's not impossible tho. Just be patient and don't act foolishly and you may have a chance.
YoshiIslander77z
Smash Apprentice
who said it was easy i just remember back when we were discovering cg and grab release stuff it SEEMED easier (that dosent make it easy)
yea so the match up obviously goes to meta knight id say 65-70:35-30
how u utilize ur eggs and grabs can make or break u
can u grab release > egg, this might open up some more camping set ups, other then just running away
yea so the match up obviously goes to meta knight id say 65-70:35-30
how u utilize ur eggs and grabs can make or break u
can u grab release > egg, this might open up some more camping set ups, other then just running away
Metatitan
Smash Master
LOL wow, stocky didn't even have to try and convince anyone. Yes this matchup is definitely 35:65 or worse. Metaknights don't get grabbed easily anymore and egg camping gets ***** by glide attack.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
That's why it feels as though it's gotten harder. The CG was what really gave us our chances, but they're not getting grabbed much anymore, so we're screwed.
D
Deleted member
Guest
I need some bwett help, this matchup is rediculously hard if the MK knows their stuff.
Elefterios
Smash Journeyman
Just be safe and patient. Run from side to side and throw eggs, grab to upsmash when you see an opening. When recovering, just airdodge, there's no need risking your stock for a bit of extra damage. Once you land onstage throw eggs run to the other side, grab the ledge...and repeat. When MK gets at high enough damage, grab release to upsmash to finish him off.
Gindler
Smash Champion
I can deal with this matchup, it's not all that bad............until you get above metaknight, that's the main spot I don't want to be in this MU.
I don't see how glide attack makes the egg camping all that bad, most of the grabs I land are from glide attacks, MKs I regularly play no longer glide attack do to that.
I don't see how glide attack makes the egg camping all that bad, most of the grabs I land are from glide attacks, MKs I regularly play no longer glide attack do to that.
SOVAman
Smash Hero
This match-up is hard I tried playing plankks meta once and all he did was air camp me. If they air camp they are out range your UpSmash and if you throw an egg it is way to easy to punish. This match-up is just plan hard.
The only thing we have against MetaKnight is the Chaingrab, and it rarely works if the MetaKnight plays smart and demolishes our approaches. Tornado, UpB OoS, Dair, Fair, this **** is just simply hard to deal with.
Even with the Chaingrab, MetaKnight is just so much better. This matchup is really frustrating. -_-
I would say 35:65-60:40 MetaKnight's favour.
Even with the Chaingrab, MetaKnight is just so much better. This matchup is really frustrating. -_-
I would say 35:65-60:40 MetaKnight's favour.
pwiito
Banned via Warnings
it's definitely on metaknights favor, i don't find that hard, I run away throw eggs so get some damage in, grab help, GC at any opportunity , yoshi is heavy so he should take a while to kill u, when revering air dodge, that's all i can say for now
Poltergust
Smash Master
As I mentioned in my up-smash thread, a perfectly spaced d-air from Meta Knight will beat out Yoshi's up-smash, which just plain sucks. -_-
Uh, I'm willing to say 35:65 or 40:60 (30:70 is pushing it too much, I don't think he counters Yoshi, and he is definitely not Yoshi's hardest match-up).
OK, I guess that we're all generally agreeing on the match-up ratio...
Uh, I'm willing to say 35:65 or 40:60 (30:70 is pushing it too much, I don't think he counters Yoshi, and he is definitely not Yoshi's hardest match-up).
OK, I guess that we're all generally agreeing on the match-up ratio...
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'd put it at the same ratios that have been stated. 65:35 or 60:40.
What I want to discuss is how to play/beat a Metaknight. I feel camping, camping, camping, and more camping, is the way to go.
Also, I think eggs can stop any planking. So that shouldn't be too bad.
What I want to discuss is how to play/beat a Metaknight. I feel camping, camping, camping, and more camping, is the way to go.
Also, I think eggs can stop any planking. So that shouldn't be too bad.
I cba to write anything huge on this matchup.
What I will say is that there are SO many sub-par MKs out there who just ride off the fact that they can win with him. Pretty pethetic and stupid really.
I'm very bored of playing against MK over and over and its no secret that I'm pro-ban. But...
I don't think this matchup is as difficult as others are suggesting, Yoshi fairs much better against MK than he does against the other top characters. Its only the PROPER MKs who are actually very good with him and not just picking him "because he is MK" that are really tough for us, and even then it would be easier than some other characters.
60:40
What I will say is that there are SO many sub-par MKs out there who just ride off the fact that they can win with him. Pretty pethetic and stupid really.
I'm very bored of playing against MK over and over and its no secret that I'm pro-ban. But...
I don't think this matchup is as difficult as others are suggesting, Yoshi fairs much better against MK than he does against the other top characters. Its only the PROPER MKs who are actually very good with him and not just picking him "because he is MK" that are really tough for us, and even then it would be easier than some other characters.
60:40
Metatitan
Smash Master
The fact of the matter is, when you have a "proper" metaknight vs a "proper" yoshi, it is clearly 35:65 mk's advantage. They've figured out how to easily punish our camp, we are easy to gimp, he is no longer easy to grab so our grab releases aren't that big of a deal anymore, and frankly metaknight kills us easier than we kill him.
Poltergust
Smash Master
But... I hate fruit. =(
And MK doesn't gimp Yoshi THAT easily, Metatitan. The fact that Yoshi can simply air-dodge through his edge-guarding is a big plus. However, Yoshi needs to watch out for his up-B. It can knock him out of his armor at like 15%. What the heck...
And MK doesn't gimp Yoshi THAT easily, Metatitan. The fact that Yoshi can simply air-dodge through his edge-guarding is a big plus. However, Yoshi needs to watch out for his up-B. It can knock him out of his armor at like 15%. What the heck...
Metatitan
Smash Master
When you play good mks, you'll realize they can just read your airdodgesBut... I hate fruit. =(
And MK doesn't gimp Yoshi THAT easily, Metatitan. The fact that Yoshi can simply air-dodge through his edge-guarding is a big plus. However, Yoshi needs to watch out for his up-B. It can knock him out of his armor at like 15%. What the heck...
Poltergust
Smash Master
It doesn't matter if they read our air-dodge or not. Meta Knight is too slow to keep up with Yoshi in the air, so even if he does get a hit in it'll be in the direction of the stage, lessening the chances of being gimped.
Metatitan
Smash Master
Did you just call nado and shuttle loop slow?It doesn't matter if they read our air-dodge or not. Meta Knight is too slow to keep up with Yoshi in the air, so even if he does get a hit in it'll be in the direction of the stage, lessening the chances of being gimped.
Depster
Smash Champion
As in horizontal air speed Meta. If we get past Meta, he can only catch us with whorenado, and we aren't going to get gimped with that, especially if we nair out of the airdodge...
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I don't think I've ever been gimped by a Meta before, only stage spiked because I (foolishly) tried to spike one. I've taken more to harassing him with eggs now.
YoshiIslander77z
Smash Apprentice
lol meta knight can gimp yoshi to an extent, ive played some slightly above average meta knights,
more defensive minded meta knight are giving me trouble as they wont get grabed, they dont run into the ****
the well placed tornado > double jump air dodge
i dont see how it 60:40
could someone explain the advantages yoshi has and the ones meta knight has?
more defensive minded meta knight are giving me trouble as they wont get grabed, they dont run into the ****
the well placed tornado > double jump air dodge
i dont see how it 60:40
could someone explain the advantages yoshi has and the ones meta knight has?
D
Deleted member
Guest
Yoshis advantages: Can rack up 30+ damage off mistakes with good reads and egg lays.
Can usually avoid getting actually gimped (however, will likely take a lot of damage offstage)
Can kill out of a grab and can refresh moves out of a grab
Mks advantages: Outranges in general
Can glide attack eggs and punish
Can tornado to punish pretty much everything, so standing still is one of your few safe options XD
Kills early
Has the advantage in most aerial zones
Polt, MK has a bunch of jumps. You are FORCED to airdodge, because a down air kills you at like 10%, and yoshis rising airdodge goes a certain length, so they jump and nair or uair. From there, its hard to get down if they are very good at reading
Can usually avoid getting actually gimped (however, will likely take a lot of damage offstage)
Can kill out of a grab and can refresh moves out of a grab
Mks advantages: Outranges in general
Can glide attack eggs and punish
Can tornado to punish pretty much everything, so standing still is one of your few safe options XD
Kills early
Has the advantage in most aerial zones
Polt, MK has a bunch of jumps. You are FORCED to airdodge, because a down air kills you at like 10%, and yoshis rising airdodge goes a certain length, so they jump and nair or uair. From there, its hard to get down if they are very good at reading
Poltergust
Smash Master
Sockz, d-air doesn't knock Yoshi out of his armor until around 100%. His up-B may knock Yoshi out at around that percentage, though (why does it have so much initial knockback? <_<).
If you air-dodge correctly, the only aerials that may reach Yoshi are his d-air and b-air/f-air (depending on which way he's facing). His u-air and n-air don't have enough horizontal range to reach Yoshi if he is far enough away from him.
Also, is the Mach Tornado really that bad? I mean, I know it's annoying, but Yoshi has a lot of moves that go through it (up-smash and Egg Toss in particular, but the latter is kind of random). Then again, Meta Knight should be using it as a punishing attack, so I guess Yoshi wouldn't get the opportunity to use those moves...
If you air-dodge correctly, the only aerials that may reach Yoshi are his d-air and b-air/f-air (depending on which way he's facing). His u-air and n-air don't have enough horizontal range to reach Yoshi if he is far enough away from him.
Also, is the Mach Tornado really that bad? I mean, I know it's annoying, but Yoshi has a lot of moves that go through it (up-smash and Egg Toss in particular, but the latter is kind of random). Then again, Meta Knight should be using it as a punishing attack, so I guess Yoshi wouldn't get the opportunity to use those moves...
D
Deleted member
Guest
Yes its really that bad.
Its definately a counter XD
Egg toss is safe at very few times against meta knight.
Its definately a counter XD
Egg toss is safe at very few times against meta knight.
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I think that we need to play a more reaction kind of game in this MU than anything. If he's on the ground, stand and wait. If he takes to the air, egg him because he's got slow aerial mobility so a few eggs may be safe. If he approaches on the ground, pivot grab or bair or something. This is something I've recently thought of and haven't put it to practice yet. I'll see if I can try it out soon.
bigman40
Smash Master
The main problem on playing a reaction game on MK means that one false, missed, of baited move will equal us taking damage. This would possibly be applicable if MK had lag in transition of his attacks, but as it stands, you can't play a reaction game on him. Yoshi can't shut him down to his pace, nor can he keep up to his pace either (although, the former is easier to do than the latter).
hadesblade
Smash Lord
I know I'm not a very active poster, but after playing both m2k and dsf at devastation I'm finding it really hard to beleave that mk is as bad as 65:35. Marth and G&W seem so much worse in my opinion. First off, I still don't see why everybody complains about mk's uber gimping ability. He isn't going to get us offstage early. stay onstage and you can't get gimped.
First off, egg toss ***** mk's aproaches, it keeps him from aproaching in the air. The only air aproach he has that beats egg toss is his glide attack, and that is beaten by both usmash and pivot grab... if mk goes for a dash attack or dash grab then pivot grab to cg to usmash or even spike if you end up with the right spacing...
shuttle loop is the most annoying thing i can find in this mu and even that is predictable, if they are waiting by edge of stage for you to fall towards them they are either going to jump up and uair/nair, nado (which will put you back over the stage, which is a good thing if you are at %'s where mk's attacks are knocking you a ways out), and the shuttleloop, which you can just ad past, if the mk doesn't do either of the other two first.
nado will lose to eggs like 80% of the time, and if you time it right, you can usually ad the last part of the nado, and ground pound if it was arial, or grab if it was grounded...
mks fair is beat by eggs and usmash, mk's dair is predictable and you can easily dash away and throw an egg, if there is no stage left, run to edge and do a ece or two if he isn't close, if he is just climb back on and run to other side... mk won't catch you. only thing he can do to outrun you is nado, which after he does it once or twice, you will learn he is going to do it and be able to pivot it during startup lag.
I'm not saying that this is an easy MU, its just that if you can read your oponent, you have solutions to everything. Its not like G&W, where even if you know his bair is coming all you can do is run away, or samus, who has the impassible zair... we have solutions to everything mk does, we can use them.
No worse than 60:40 mk, I'd say its still 55:45.
Please don't say I haven't played any good mk's as, like I said at the beginning of my post, I just played m2k and dsf at devastation.
First off, egg toss ***** mk's aproaches, it keeps him from aproaching in the air. The only air aproach he has that beats egg toss is his glide attack, and that is beaten by both usmash and pivot grab... if mk goes for a dash attack or dash grab then pivot grab to cg to usmash or even spike if you end up with the right spacing...
shuttle loop is the most annoying thing i can find in this mu and even that is predictable, if they are waiting by edge of stage for you to fall towards them they are either going to jump up and uair/nair, nado (which will put you back over the stage, which is a good thing if you are at %'s where mk's attacks are knocking you a ways out), and the shuttleloop, which you can just ad past, if the mk doesn't do either of the other two first.
nado will lose to eggs like 80% of the time, and if you time it right, you can usually ad the last part of the nado, and ground pound if it was arial, or grab if it was grounded...
mks fair is beat by eggs and usmash, mk's dair is predictable and you can easily dash away and throw an egg, if there is no stage left, run to edge and do a ece or two if he isn't close, if he is just climb back on and run to other side... mk won't catch you. only thing he can do to outrun you is nado, which after he does it once or twice, you will learn he is going to do it and be able to pivot it during startup lag.
I'm not saying that this is an easy MU, its just that if you can read your oponent, you have solutions to everything. Its not like G&W, where even if you know his bair is coming all you can do is run away, or samus, who has the impassible zair... we have solutions to everything mk does, we can use them.
No worse than 60:40 mk, I'd say its still 55:45.
Please don't say I haven't played any good mk's as, like I said at the beginning of my post, I just played m2k and dsf at devastation.
Metatitan
Smash Master
And how did you do against them?
hadesblade
Smash Lord
1 stocked by dsf 2 stocked by m2k
Metatitan
Smash Master
Bwett actually beat DSF's mk at WHOBO so I'll wait for him to post. Still nice job if what you're saying is true
hadesblade
Smash Lord
Alright, wait for bwett... but is that all the feedback I'm gonna get for now? XDBwett actually beat DSF's mk at WHOBO so I'll wait for him to post. Still nice job if what you're saying is true
Delta-cod
Smash Hero
I'll say I liked it. I need to play a MK now, though. XD
D
Deleted member
Guest
Hmmm
I disagree, but w/e
I think neither of them play yoshis very much (i have never played Dsf's MK with yoshi), while you of course have.
Its like FOW beating tyrant, you could say ness beats MK, but he doesnt, its matchup inexperience.
I do agree with one thing tho: Yoshi DOES have an option to everything MK does. However, i think all that does is let yoshi have an easier time against bad MKs. At the highest level, Meta Knight is gonna have superior options in almost every situation.
Which sucks.
Again, eggs are easily countered by glide attack, and powershielding.
I disagree, but w/e
I think neither of them play yoshis very much (i have never played Dsf's MK with yoshi), while you of course have.
Its like FOW beating tyrant, you could say ness beats MK, but he doesnt, its matchup inexperience.
I do agree with one thing tho: Yoshi DOES have an option to everything MK does. However, i think all that does is let yoshi have an easier time against bad MKs. At the highest level, Meta Knight is gonna have superior options in almost every situation.
Which sucks.
Again, eggs are easily countered by glide attack, and powershielding.
hadesblade
Smash Lord
Eggs aren't easily countered by glide attack, just don't throw an egg unless they are gliding. If they are in air and they start gliding after you throw an egg, you will have time to throw another egg if they are still a ways away, or if they are close, you can just pivot grab the glide attack... as for power shielding, even if they power sheild, all they did was stop the egg, it's not hurting you in anyway. By the time the egg gets to him the ending lag from egg toss will of warn off, and you will just be back where you started, which isn't a bad thing.Hmmm
I disagree, but w/e
I think neither of them play yoshis very much (i have never played Dsf's MK with yoshi), while you of course have.
Its like FOW beating tyrant, you could say ness beats MK, but he doesnt, its matchup inexperience.
I do agree with one thing tho: Yoshi DOES have an option to everything MK does. However, i think all that does is let yoshi have an easier time against bad MKs. At the highest level, Meta Knight is gonna have superior options in almost every situation.
Which sucks.
Again, eggs are easily countered by glide attack, and powershielding.