new olimar stage counterpicks: we are back! pikachu

Dabuz · Jun 22, 2009

since my old thread/ chart is old, outdated and wrong im going to start from scratch with a new thread+better/more organized chart (to be inserted by hilt at some time)

also, if anyone writes good stage summaries/wants to copy the ones from dynne's thread ill put them in this post as well

scale
1: horrible stage for this matchup, always avoid

2: pretty bad but not horrible

3: its an even stage, might be great or bad depending on your play style but nothing inherently bad for olimar here

4: one of olimar's better stages, normally a solid cp

5: great olimar stage, should counterpick this whenever the opportunity presents itself
fino: this stage is RC meaning its fino's favorite stage, unless your fino or his clone please ignore the special number next to it
PIKACHU

chart:

Code:

                         Meta Knight  Snake  Wario  Falco  Diddy King DeDeDe

Battlefield                   4       3       4       4       3       5
Final Destination             4       5       3       2       1       4
Smashville                    3       4       4       3       2       3
Yoshi's Island                4       3       4       4       4       3

Castle Seige                  3       4       3       4       3       4
Halberd                       5       3       4       4       3       3
Lylat cruise                  4       3       3       4       3       3
Pokemon Stadium 1             3       3       3       3       3       3

Brinstar                      2       3       1       3       2       2
Delfino                       3       3       2       4       4       3
Frigate Orpheon               3       4       2       4       3       2
Jungle Japes                  1       2       2       1       4       2
Pictochat                     2       4      N/A      3       N/A     2
Pirate Ship                  N/A     N/A      1       4       N/A     2
Pokemon Stadium 2            N/A      2       3       2       N/A    N/A
Rainbow Cruise                1       3       1       3       3       2

Distant Planet                3       4       4      N/A      N/A     3
Green Greens                  4      N/A      3       4       N/A     N/A
Luigi's Mansion               3       3       5       4       4       4
Port Town Aero Dive          N/A     N/A      1       2       N/A     1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)        5       4       4       4       N/A     N/A
Norfair                       2       2       2       4       3       3

Code:

                         Marth  Mr. Game & Watch  Pikachu Ice Climbers  R.O.B.  Kirby

Battlefield                3            4
Final Destination          4            4
Smashville                 4            4
Yoshi's Island             3            4

Castle Seige               2            3
Halberd                    5            3
Lylat cruise               3            3
Pokemon Stadium 1          3            4

Brinstar                   2            2
Delfino                    3            3
Frigate Orpheon            3            3
Jungle Japes               3            2
Pictochat                  4            3
Pirate Ship               N/A           1
Pokemon Stadium 2         N/A           2
Rainbow Cruise             1            2

Distant Planet            N/A           3
Green Greens              N/A           3
Luigi's Mansion            5           N/A
Port Town Aero Dive        2           N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)     5            3
Norfair                    3           N/A

Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Castle Seige
Halberd
Lylat cruise
Pokemon Stadium 1

Brinstar
Delfino
Frigate Orpheon
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pirate Ship
Pokemon Stadium 2
Rainbow Cruise

Distant Planet
Green Greens
Luigi's Mansion
Port Town Aero Dive
Yoshi's Island (Pipes)
Norfair

please use the above format when posting

stage summaries:

Yoshi's island (Melee)

Pipes is indeed the best level ever possibly made for olimar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyyne View Post
I also think that yoshi's (pipes) is a really great olimar level too. I realize that it is often banned, but when it's not, it's amazing I think. It has many characteristics that hugely benefit oli. Some help others too, but I think oli does especially.

1. The middle part that can result in sd's doesn't harm oli too much, because he can tether from almost anywhere down there, and still grab the edge.
2. Both side have slopes. Camping is amazing on these slopes. Oli's pikmin toss while standing on a slope is so hot. It angles perfectly. It's amazing. Oli's grab is also amazing on the slopes.
3. The only section where gimping can occur is on the left side, which can be avoided.
4. The left side isn't even bad for oli. Because it is so close to the blast line, b-throw, d-smash, etc. kill so excellently here. Another thing is that:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stage..._080107a-l.jpg
If you look all the way on the left, you'll see that it is flat, then rises on the left, then declines on the right. Oli can be standing on the flat part or the rising part on the left, and grab people on the declining part on the right. It is amazing.
5. The right side of the stage, again, can be camped amazingly, and oli can get easy b-throw kills since it's a walkoff.

All in all, yoshi's pipes are ridiculously amazing.

dabuz

DtJ Hilt · Jun 23, 2009

wow didn't know there were that many charts, haha....
I basically had to decide whether to seperate them by Tier in different charts or to put them all in the same chart, but you'd have to scroll down in the chart to see anything A tier and down >.>

If you'd like the latter, it's easy to change so just let me know. You probably don't want five big charts in your thread :laugh:

edit: also, sorry it took me so long to put it in lol. I fell asleep ^.^;

Fino · Jun 23, 2009

dabuz said:
scale
1: horrible stage for this matchup, alwasy avoid
2: could be worse but not horrible, not great though
3: its an even stage, might be great or bad depending on your playstyle but nothing inherently bad for olimar here
4: one of olimar's better stages, normally a solid cp
5: great olimar stage, should counterpick this whenever the oppurtunity presents itself
fino: this stage is RC meaning its fino's favorite stage, unless your fino or his clone please ignore the special number next to it

ROFL and it's in my color too.... ****ing epic hilt XD

<33
I'm going to start screen shooting things like this and just make a collection ^^;

~Fino

DtJ Hilt · Jun 23, 2009

lol I didn't do it fino, it was all dabuz xD

Fino · Jun 23, 2009

-Hilt- said:
lol I didn't do it fino, it was all dabuz xD

O.o? Really?

hahahahaha... so dabuz included me as greater than a 5... in a best out of 5 for stages =]
still awesome.

~Fino

DtJ Hilt · Jun 23, 2009

Ahh, I just noticed you set Meta Knight as the first week.

I'll get my opinions on it a little later. All I will say, though, is that Rainbow Cruise should definitely be a 1 and Frigate a 2, for obvious reasons. I know you love Frigate, dabuz, but MK's just too good at gimping Olimar there lol. Norfair is pretty bad against him as well, as is japes.

I'll have more time to post more and reasons for what I posted above when I get back home :x

IcyLight · Jun 23, 2009

i personally find frigate to be decent against mk, around 3-4 area.
just gotta be careful on the first part of the stage, but the other 2 are set up extremely nicely for oli. just need to play it safe

ps1 probably a 5
it's a nice stage with platforms so mk can't aerial approach you too much or air plank. small ceiling and sides making it easy to kill for oli

fd a 6
large stage gives you plenty of room to run around and space. you want to be very campy here, don't spam too many pikmin he might try to approach you and catch you off guard. if he's sorta closing in as you sideb, try empty short hopping into a grab if he's still on the ground. if he likes to tornado, you can just run away and reverse sideb if he tries to chase. tornado is literally blockable every time unless he catches you with it when you jump/are in the air. this should be a solid cp against nearly anyone in the game, it's very good for oli period

battlefield a 5-6
very great stage for platforms that prevent mk from approaching from above too much. you want to stand near the mid and slightly under the platform here. get too close to the side he will be able to pressure you off and gimp

smashville a 4-5
floating platform helps recovery if you get gimped now and then, decently short sides and a medium ceiling. killing isn't too difficult here, but there are better options if you like flat stages.

yoshis 5-6
the middle platform in here really screws with mk aerial game. i love this stage vs. mk's because of the mega short sides and the randall slots saving you every now and then. easy to kill an mk here, just gotta be careful

lylat a 5
larger stage so you can move around a little bit, platforms help keeping him above you and approach from more toward the side. large stage so hard to kill, but just bait into a dsmash or shield his dsmash and punish with your own. overall a decent cp against mk, at least for me

rainbowcruise a fino
this stage is so good. a lot of mk's don't know you can bthrow into the wall on the ship and jab lock to 70 and usmash. they are like "ooo dtilt lock my turn to **** him" and all you do is shield grab. don't get hit by dtilt though ^_^ you can always take the fino approach and fsmash lock against the wall to play it safe. THE BIGGEST THING you need to remember on this stage is to try and plank the best you can while the stage is going up. you have no advantages whatsoever with the pendulum platform part, so you need to try to get to the top right as soon as possible.
honestly, unless you know how to play this stage avoid it.

Dabuz · Jun 23, 2009

a little note, i decided to change a chart to 1-10 so it would make more sense

no, my opinions:

Battlefield 6
Final Destination 5
Smashville 5
Yoshi's Island 7

Castle Seige ????????
Halberd 8
Lylat cruise 7
Pokemon Stadium 1 ???????

Brinstar 3
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 9(yes, i love this stage so it gets bias)
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat ?????????
Pirate Ship ????????
Pokemon Stadium 2 4
Rainbow Cruise 1 fino(10)

Distant Planet 6
Green Greens ????????
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive ???????
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) ????????
Norfair 2

Snail · Jun 23, 2009

A 9 against MK on Frigate Orpheon? Lolwut.

Fino · Jun 23, 2009

Battlefield 7-8
Final Destination 8
Smashville 6-7
Yoshi's Island 6-7

Castle Seige 7-8
Halberd 9001
Lylat cruise 5-6
Pokemon Stadium 1 6-7

Brinstar 6-7
Delfino 7
Frigate Orpheon 6
Jungle Japes 4-5
Pictochat 5
Pirate Ship ???
Pokemon Stadium 2 ???
Rainbow Cruise 7-8

Distant Planet 8
Green Greens 13
Luigi's Mansion 6
Port Town Aero Dive -9001 (IT'S OVER NEGATIVE 9000!!!!!) - this will be my number against just about every character for this stage
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 13
Norfair 4-5

Snail said:
A 9 against MK on Frigate Orpheon? Lolwut.

Yeah, frigate is a decent stage against mk... though I don't think it's THAT high now. Olimar's options are greatly increased with good stage control (ESPECIALLY ON THE SECOND PART MY GOODNESS @.@), while those same benefits do not reach to mk more than any other stage would. Also, spacing and priority help in this troubled match up. Yellow fsmash goes through tornado for instance, and on frigate you get more yellows. While stages like lylat also boost yellows, lylat isn't a good stage against mk for obvious reasons <.<

EDIT: 13 means the stage is too good to be true, because it's usually banned.

DtJ Hilt · Jun 23, 2009

Battlefield 6-7
Final Destination 7
Smashville 7
Yoshi's Island 7-8

Castle Seige ????????
Halberd 8
Lylat cruise 6-7
Pokemon Stadium 7

Brinstar 3
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 2-3
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship ????????
Pokemon Stadium 2 ?????
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 5
Green Greens 6
Luigi's Mansion 6
Port Town Aero Dive 1
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 10 (seriously)
Norfair 2

I'll post more definitions on other stages later on tonight. This is the main one I wanna address though >.>

Frigate is not a horrible stage for Olimar to play on. However, in no way would I say it would be a good place to fight MK on. In many matchups the ledgeless side isn't a problem. However, in the meta knight matchup it very much so is. Meta Knight is far too good at gimping and pressuring Olimar. I can see how the second phase can be, for the most part, better, though. The yellow pikmin do help in the matchup, but not enough. Yellow fsmash only goes through tornado at the bottom of the tornado and only at the beginning of the tornado.

Dabuz, I want to see a video of you (or someone else for that matter >.>) beating a mk (that knows the oli matchup) on frigate :x Because I'm just not seeing it. Saying it's good in the snake matchup? That's fine. Saying it's good in the meta knight matchup? umm....

Plasma Pikmin · Jun 23, 2009

Battlefield 6-7
Final Destination 7
Smashville 6
Yoshi's Island 7

Castle Siege 4
Halberd 5
Lylat Cruise 7
Pokemon Stadium 7

Brinstar 2
Delfino 5
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship (lol WA stage)
Pokemon Stadium 2 ???
Rainbow Cruise Fino (10)

Distant Planet 5
Green Greens (lol WA stage)
Luigi's Mansion 4
Port Town Area Dive (that stage is legal somewhere???)
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) (that stage is legal somewhere???)
Norfair 2

I don't know about you guys, but I hate Halberd against MK. Sure, we can kill him pretty early, but I'm just scared of him sharking there. Same for Delfino, but we get more Purples there, and there are walk off areas, so it's probably better since we can't get gimped and get more kills than usually. I just think that there are different numbers on the same stages depending on the type of MK you're playing, like the smart/aggressive ones or the campy/defensives ones.

Dyyne · Jun 23, 2009

Pipes is indeed the best level ever possibly made for olimar.

Dyyne said:
I also think that yoshi's (pipes) is a really great olimar level too. I realize that it is often banned, but when it's not, it's amazing I think. It has many characteristics that hugely benefit oli. Some help others too, but I think oli does especially.

1. The middle part that can result in sd's doesn't harm oli too much, because he can tether from almost anywhere down there, and still grab the edge.
2. Both side have slopes. Camping is amazing on these slopes. Oli's pikmin toss while standing on a slope is so hot. It angles perfectly. It's amazing. Oli's grab is also amazing on the slopes.
3. The only section where gimping can occur is on the left side, which can be avoided.
4. The left side isn't even bad for oli. Because it is so close to the blast line, b-throw, d-smash, etc. kill so excellently here. Another thing is that:
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/stages/images/stage21/stage21_080107a-l.jpg
If you look all the way on the left, you'll see that it is flat, then rises on the left, then declines on the right. Oli can be standing on the flat part or the rising part on the left, and grab people on the declining part on the right. It is amazing.
5. The right side of the stage, again, can be camped amazingly, and oli can get easy b-throw kills since it's a walkoff.

All in all, yoshi's pipes are ridiculously amazing.

From November, before Fino steals my thunder again

And Frigate is not 9, or even close to it, for Mk. Keep it unbiased. And I think 10 is too many....5 is a better number, since it represents "terrible, bad, neutral, good, amazing" a lot better, which are better guidelines, and less strict, than "terrible, terrible with a pinch of bad, terrible with 2 pinches of bad...."

Fino · Jun 23, 2009

Dyyne said:
From November, before Fino steals my thunder again

Hmmm? What do you mean @.@

-Hilt- said:
Yellow fsmash only goes through tornado at the bottom of the tornado and only at the beginning of the tornado.

Right, you have that, and then the only way mk with tornado is punishable with a grab.

Profit?

Either way, I'm changing it to a 6 (from 7). Because just like lylat and luigi's... olimar has some gimmicks that will help him.... but it's not his best CP option at all.

~Fino

BOB SAGET! · Jun 23, 2009

Battlefield 5
Final Destination 8
Smashville 7
Yoshi's Island 6

Castle Siege 4
Halberd 4
Lylat Cruise 6
Pokemon Stadium 6

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship ????????????????????? Pokemon Stadium 2 6
Rainbow Cruise 4

Distant Planet 5
Green Greens 9
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Area Dive (not legal) Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 6 Norfair 2

IcyLight · Jun 23, 2009

Battlefield 7-8
Final Destination 8
Smashville 6
Yoshi's Island 7

Castle Seige 4-6
Halberd 8
Lylat cruise 5
Pokemon Stadium 1 -- 7

Brinstar 6
Delfino 7
Frigate Orpheon 8
Jungle Japes 3-4
Pictochat 5
Pirate Ship ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Pokemon Stadium 2 - 5-7
Rainbow Cruise 10

Distant Planet 8
Green Greens 10
Luigi's Mansion 10
Port Town Aero Dive -9001 (IT'S OVER NEGATIVE 9000!!!!!) - i agree with this
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 9
Norfair 8

i love rainbow cruise with all of my everything, it's my best cp. frigate is really good against mk as well, just gotta be real careful on the first part of the stage, in which it's bad against anyone but snake pretty much. i **** snakes on the first part.

as far as rainbow cruise, this stage is amazing if you are really in tune with how to use it. if you just can't seem to do well on it then maybe it's just not your stage. as far as vs. mk, there are other solid cp's i'de chose over RC but now and then throwing it in there kind of confuses them xD

BOB SAGET! · Jun 23, 2009

Dude rainbow cruise is one of MK's best stage. Though you can get mk in an infinite on the wall of the ship.

DtJ Hilt · Jun 24, 2009

I kind of agree with Dynne on keeping it 1-5.
And I can't agree to frigate being anything more than a five against Meta Knight. Maybe a six, but not likely. And Rainbow Cruise less than that.

Again, I'm going to need to see a video.

Aztec Avenger · Jun 24, 2009

Hm, are we going to just give numbers or explain, cause I think it would be more beneficial if we went into some depth with stages. Or any stages that seem to stir more conversation.

I say RC is a half an half stage for Olimar against an MK. I mean MK does **** anywhere besides the boat,but you can just keep avoiding him while moving(plank?). Still the boat itself gives enough time to get MK to KO percentage or KO him there.

If it's 1-10 then I would have to give RC a 6.

Noa. · Jun 24, 2009

Stick with the 1-5 system. It works much easier and is more clear cut than the 1-10.

Dyyne · Jun 24, 2009

Aztec Avenger said:
I say RC is a half an half stage for Olimar against an MK. I mean MK does **** anywhere besides the boat,but you can just keep avoiding him while moving(plank?). Still the boat itself gives enough time to get MK to KO percentage or KO him there.

If it's 1-10 then I would have to give RC a 6.

Good luck avoiding mk, a much faster character with faster attacks as well, as olimar, an extremely floaty character who is slow as *** in the air and easily gets outprioritizez in the air by mk, while simultaneously hardly being able to grab the mk since all the platforms will just help his dair camping. That was a total run-on, but still. Also, mk has dtilt lock on the boat as well, so we're not the only ones.
2/5 for mk

Aztec Avenger · Jun 24, 2009

Dyyne said:
Good luck avoiding mk, a much faster character with faster attacks as well, as olimar, an extremely floaty character who is slow as *** in the air and easily gets outprioritizez in the air by mk, while simultaneously hardly being able to grab the mk since all the platforms will just help his dair camping. That was a total run-on, but still. Also, mk has dtilt lock on the boat as well, so we're not the only ones.
2/5 for mk

That's just what I have been doing against many(all) MKs in RC, thing is my opinions might not be all that good cause I have only played online in AiB ladder matches. I have faced good MKs though, not all of them were scrubs. Next time I face an MK on RC i'll record it for ya.

Dabuz · Jun 27, 2009

Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 2
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 2
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 3
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 2

does that sound good with everyone?

btw, since a few people want to, im going back to the 1-5 scale

Aztec Avenger · Jun 27, 2009

All sounds good except RC it should be 2 at the most.

Fino · Jun 27, 2009

dabuz said:
Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 5
Lylat cruise 2
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3/4
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 1
Pictochat 2
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 2/3
Changes in red, but then again that's my opinion
Halberd is your best stage, easily.
Lylat is somewhat good for olimar, but overall better for mk
Delfino has a lot of good attributes including walk offs and low ceilings
Japes is overall bad, you best ko move is diminished, on top of that water will rarely kill mk.

~Fino

dabuz said:
Distant Planet 3
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 2

does that sound good with everyone?

btw, since a few people want to, im going back to the 1-5 scale

Dabuz · Jun 27, 2009

halberd: i guess we need a best cp so ill agree
lylat: ill stand at what i say
delfino: i do kinda have hate bias towards this level, ill go with 3
japes: no, RC is still worse than japes for this matchup
RC: you are fino, please use the fino

any other disagreements...

BOB SAGET! · Jun 27, 2009

No, i'm good..

Fino · Jun 28, 2009

For stages, you have to take into consideration what your opponents best strategy is for killing, and what your options are for killing.

Metaknight's two best kill moves are dsmash and shuttle loop, both with a strong horizontal knock-back.

Olimar's best killing moves are really in any direction, but his best kill move is upsmash. His strong horizontal kill moves are situational on mk, and are usually pulled off on good reading of the mk (assuming you can punish on top of reading).

Now lets look at japes. HIGH HIGH ceiling. Small blast zones from the sides (relative to the platforms on the sides). On top of that you have the water. Your best killing option has been taken away, and you other kill moves are EVEN MORE limited than normal, due to the stage layout of japes and you how have to "play to win" there. MK on the other hand has a boosted advantage of the smaller side blast zones, while the high ceiling doesn't hurt him at all. His dsmash and shuttle loop can kill you off the side platform at around 60% Note that the best option for olimar is to camp the right platform. Also, while we know how to deal with water, mk has less trouble recovering form it, while olimar can only survive if he falls on the far right areas.

I started a full conversation with someone else before the last sentence... and I forget what I was talking about... and it's 1:40. lol night for me ^^;

~Fino

DtJ Hilt · Jun 28, 2009

dabuz said:
Battlefield 4
Final Destination 4
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 2
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 2
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 N/A
Rainbow Cruise 1

Distant Planet 3
Green Greens 4
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 5
Norfair 2

does that sound good with everyone?

btw, since a few people want to, im going back to the 1-5 scale

This sounds just about completely correct, imo.

Pirate Ship I don't play on enough. Stadium 2 I couldn't imagine being anything better than a 2, as MK would be able to take advantage of the stage situations much much better than Olimar would. Port Town Aero Dive definitely should be a 1 in this matchup >.>

Halberd I could consider being a five, just because it would be the best of the CP's to take Meta Knight to, with FD probably being right behind imo. Lylat I'm starting to lean towards 3 in lylat. The extra yellows help a bit but mk takes advantage of the platforms much better than Olimar does, as well as the slanting of the ship. I seem to have a much harder time recovering against mk on lylat than I do on battlefield, and I don't think there's too much that would warrant an advantage for Olimar here. Delfino is either 2 or 3 for sure. I'd go with three to be honest. RC is definitely worse than Japes for sure against Meta Knight. However japes is HORRIBLE in this matchup. Both would be considered 1's in my book haha. However Japes having a 2 is understandable. You just basically have to wait extra long for your kill and chill out in the middle section a lot longer.

Looks pretty legit otherwise. It'd be cool to hear some other olimar mains' opinions on it as well though :D

Dabuz · Jun 28, 2009

ok, updated chart, now we go to snake(opinions iwll be up later)

also, hilt, write me a mathematical equation on how to get this chart in even columns

DtJ Hilt · Jun 28, 2009

ummm an equation? alrighty lol

c - x = s
or
x + s = c
(obviously the same things >.>)

c: number of spaces wide the column is
x: number of characters (including spaces between words) that the word or number in the column contains
s: number of spaces you insert after the word, to make it and the amount of characters in the word equal the number of spaces wide the column is.

Then you start the next column right after that. It really isn't too difficult after you figure out what you're doing (and creating an equation for it isn't really TOO necessary lol)

Dabuz · Jun 28, 2009

thanks, that equation was really necessary, now this chart is organized

DtJ Hilt · Jun 28, 2009

haha good work dabuz
Saves me trouble ^.^

So you wanna go ahead and start the snake discussion Mr. "I beat Ally Online"?
<3

I have much more snake practice than I do against MK so I'll be of more help here as well :D
I'll do mine after a while when I have a bit more time :x

BOB SAGET! · Jun 28, 2009

Thank god we're having this discussion, i need snake help.

Snail · Jun 29, 2009

Dabuz's chart is really good. I'd give both Japes and RC a 1 as well... ><

IcyLight · Jun 29, 2009

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 3
Yoshi's Island 4

Castle Seige 4
Halberd 4
Lylat cruise 2
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 5
Jungle Japes 4
Pictochat 4
Pirate Ship im not on a boat
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise im on a boat! 10 10 10 10 10 10

Distant Planet 3
Green Greens 3
Luigi's Mansion 3
Port Town Aero Dive 1-2
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) 2-3
Norfair 4

personal opinions on stages for the snake matchup, i seem to do best against snake on yoshis and frigate, frigate i'm really good against snakes i'm careful on the first part and then the rest of the stage i dominate, it's perfect for snake =]

Snail · Jun 29, 2009

I really like Norfair against Snake. Make sure to know how to DI out of Nair and you're good to go, it's a nice stage <3

Aztec Avenger · Jun 29, 2009

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 4
Smashville 2
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige 3
Halberd 5
Lylat cruise 3
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 3
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 3
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat 3
Pirate Ship 2(That's a CP?)
Pokemon Stadium 2 4
Rainbow Cruise Fino's Cruise

Distant Planet ??( I just don't know)
Green Greens 2
Luigi's Mansion 5
Port Town Aero Dive ??(don't know either)
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) ??(^same)
Norfair 4

Dabuz · Jun 29, 2009

expect extreme bias in this list because i love snake on all levels

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 5
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 5
Pokemon Stadium 1 4

Brinstar 2
Delfino 3
Frigate Orpheon 4
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 3(really)
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair 2

there is my list

edit: aztec: your sig is really cool

DtJ Hilt · Jun 29, 2009

Battlefield 3
Final Destination 5 maybe 4
Smashville 4
Yoshi's Island 3

Castle Seige N/A
Halberd 3
Lylat cruise 3 maybe 4
Pokemon Stadium 1 3

Brinstar 2
Delfino 4
Frigate Orpheon 4 (I can agree to that)
Jungle Japes 2
Pictochat N/A
Pirate Ship N/A
Pokemon Stadium 2 2
Rainbow Cruise 3

Distant Planet 4
Green Greens N/A
Luigi's Mansion 3(really)
Port Town Aero Dive N/A
Yoshi's Island (Pipes) N/A
Norfair 2

I honestly don't really like lylat against snake :/ Yellows don't really make too big of a deal in the matchup, and the platforms are well set for snake and his explosives. I don't see why this stage would be a five, while battlefield is a three >.>

I love delfino against snake. The stage has amazing colors for the matchup (purple and blue imo are the best against snake), and as long as you stay away from walk offs you should be able to camp him extremely well. I personally would think of it as a five if it weren't for the walk offs :/

new olimar stage counterpicks: we are back! pikachu

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