Matchup Thread Export: Olimar

Gates · Jul 26, 2009

OLIMAR

DIFFICULTY: HARD - 35:65
CHAINGRAB: NO

Foursaken said:
This match up is hard, but definitely winnable. It's been said before, but D3 must approach, there simply is no another option. Olimar simply outcamps D3, and if you try to fight fire with fire, you will lose. However, approaching can be a problem since all Olimar has to do is run around throwing pikmin or reverse pivot grab to mess you up. Play smart and poke around with your F tilt, but be cautious as I believe white pikmin rival that range as well, if not beat it. And if you get grabbed at low percentages, expect a fair amount of damage. Seriously, Olimar can combo D3 to hell and back, and most of the time you'll be starting a stock with around 30 - 50 damage if this happens. On the flip side, when you snag a grab, get to tech chasing. It's one of your strongest damage builders in this match up. Use common sense! If you down throw while both of you are near the center of the stage, chances are, they will roll away. If you down throw them towards the ledge, expect a roll back as most players don't want to be put in such a disadvantageous position. And what a horrid position this is for Olimar players! Once Olimar is off the stage, he should lose a stock. That should be your main goal every time. Don't let him come back! Bair all day long! Remember Olimar has a tether recovery, so if your attempting a ledge hog and your invincibility frames have worn off, be aware that this will stage spike. Tech it if your super pro, if not, your gambling a stock. High risk, high reward, how you choose to gimp Olimar is up to you.

All in all, D3 is definitely at a disadvantage. Is it major? Not with a little match up experience.
[...]
But then again, that's the beauty of D3. Even with a good amount of match ups in the opponents favor, they're all winnable. Play smart, and you can go toe to toe with any, and all of them.

Commander_Beef said:
I would say this is one of the most annoying matchups for King Dedede. Olimar's got everything to trigger the king's weaknesses: he outcamps you badly with his sideB. His smashes have more range than our grab, and he can combo us like ****.
His number one combo on us at 0-10% is: Down throw > Up smash > Up air. Maybe another up air if you're not prepared. Pretty much Olimar's game is camping with sideB, then grabbing or smashing when close.
Best way to finish that match early is to gimp with back air, but watch him for when he does a whistle or a airdodge, then back air. Mindgaming with a fastfalled forward air while offstage works wonders too.
Three things we should use most in this matchup: Inhale, Spotdodge and Up throw.
Preferably fastfalling inhale on him because it screws with his ground game and it sends him in the air, and that's the purpose to keep up throwing him too. KEEP HIM OFF THE GROUND as much as you can. Play as smart as you can to juggle him so he doesn't continue with his smashes and grab. And whenever he's still on the ground, always spotdodge instead of shielding. Spotdodgegrabbing because his grab range is more than ours and has less lag. Then up throw him and try to keep hm up there.
Really good counterpicks for Olimar are Halberd and Frigate.
Halberd's platform guards you when you up throw him, up tilt kills Olimar early at 75-80% and I would assume he's easily gimpable instead of neutrals. Frigate has no ledge on the first transformation so that'll be gamebreaking for us.
The two neutrals that you should try to not bring Olimar to: Yoshi's Island and Final Destination. Just believe me there, no need to explain.
Otherwise, you just have to play smart with spotdodging, no shieldgrabbing unless if you need to stop your running momentum, but still spotdodgegrab.
Matchup I think is 60:40 Olimar -_-.

Seibrik]OLI: One simple thing that throws this matchup into ddd's favor said:
Ah, a common misconception [is that pikmin colors don't matter]. It does matter. The pikmin color matters in every situation you're in- that is if the Olimar player knows what he's doing and knows how to use each pikmin as efficiently and effectively as possible. If you're looking to be fairly advanced in fighting against Olimar, you need to look at which pikmin in the line is where and understand that the line and your movements will sway an Olimar players future decisions. If you don't, you're hurting yourself. You could save yourself matches by knowing which pikmin in Olimar's pikmin repitoire do what.

-Purples will knock you backwards, (6% damage) letting us throw more pikmin. If you're close enough, we may go for the grab- similar to Diddy following up his peanut gun in a way. Many opponents don't see the purple and so we get a free 6%, time to pluck any pikmin we need, gain stage positioning, and maybe follow up on the set knockback that you recieve from the purple pikmin.

-Whites arc considerably lower, but fly faster and farther, making them considerably easier to aim and land for the Oli user. They should be giving you, the DDD player, much more of an incentive to attack them because of how much damage they rack. (up to 60% undiminished, or 6% per latch hit) With that in mind, we'll be looking for a grab more often after throwing a white. You should be able to recognize this.

-Yellows arc higher and fly a shorter distance, making them harder to land. Something I personally like to do is jump higher when I'm about to throw a yellow. This will help me get some extra distance on the throw. If the Olimar player isn't very advanced and just throws the yellow normally, a missed yellow may give you a little more breathing room. And maybe just enough time to SHnair to kill a pikmin that's on you? You've still got to fear getting punished though.

-Blue and Reds are normal. They fly the same distance as each other and give the same damage as yellows per latch hit. There aren't any significant advantages/disadvantages reds/blues have when camping.

I've got a guide to camping with Olimar. Check it out if you're interested.

o-Serin-o · Aug 6, 2009

I don't have much Oli experience except when SuSa gays me in our matches. I DO know, however, is that when Olimar is offstage, ALWAYS hug the ledge. This will force him to either up-b on the stage or to stagespike you with his pikman chain (which is easily avoidable). Regardless, if he lands back onstage, get up and throw him back off until your ready to kill. This has worked for me against dabuz.

Jupz · Aug 7, 2009

Practice teching so you can tech his UpB if you edgehog it.

o-Serin-o · Aug 7, 2009

Just roll back on stage so that it doesnt stagespike you, and that Olimar wont recover.

Countcocofang · Sep 13, 2009

Is this matchup still considered this bad? I've only fought one olimar that knew how to pivot grab and he demolished me, but a lot of dedede's bad matchups have gotten better since the matchup thread was created. Any news or should I polish up my G&W?

Commander_Beef · Sep 13, 2009

Countcocofang said:
Is this matchup still considered this bad? I've only fought one olimar that knew how to pivot grab and he demolished me, but a lot of dedede's bad matchups have gotten better since the matchup thread was created. Any news or should I polish up my G&W?

It is really that bad. I'd say it is his second worst matchup. All explanations are available.
I personally think it's 40:60 though. You have to play your best and your smartest.

Gates · Sep 13, 2009

There's a bunch of debate about the exact numbers but generally it's accepted as a solid bad matchup.

stealthwarrior17 · Sep 15, 2009

I've never won this match up, extremely difficult. Like the hints and suggestions say, tilts, air game, and some unique actions have to be taken to win this match up. Always chase Olimar off stage!

Fino · Sep 15, 2009

65:35 - 70:30

At least some characters were balanced <.<

~Fino

Commander_Beef · Sep 15, 2009

Finolimar said:
65:35 - 70:30

At least some characters were balanced <.<

~Fino

If you really love to express your name at the bottom of your message, the least you could do since you're the "best Olimar out there"...is to share your general thoughts about the matchup. Just my suggestion if you think the matchup is near 70:30 for you and that's all you know about this.

o-Serin-o · Sep 15, 2009

I agree. If you are just coming in here to input one little detail and a matchup ratio, then at least tell the other Olimars about it so that we can have a legitimate discussion with them.

Fino · Sep 16, 2009

All in all it's just a bad match-up for DDD. I'm not going to be close minded about it though, it you want to debate it, I would be glad to do so. I'll start with a couple points, feel free to bring in other things I missed... there's no way I can cover a match-up in one sweep XD
Problems DDD runs into:
Range: Olimar can out space DDD with smashes and grabs from mid-rage, and also out camp him from far away. Olimar's biggest vulnerability is going to be close up, which DDD will have trouble getting into due to his slow maneuverability and approach game.
Edge guarding: A significant weakness of olimar is his recovery, though a good olimar will know how to DI and when to whistle on-coming edgeguard tactics. Granted this, he is still vulnerable. IMO, I could be wrong though, DDD has trouble getting the gimp on olimar due to heavy predictability in the air. You know if a DDD is above you with his back facing he's going to FF a bair, but if he's below is going to jump and bair. Facing you he's going to jump fair, or FF a uair... but that would he olimar if anything =-/ Not saying those are the only options, just giving scenarios.
Those Annoying Minions: Pikmin spam just hurts DDD. Being such a large and fat penguin that he is, olimar is not going to have a problem aiming pikmin. On top of that, what is DDD going to do to get pikmin off in a manor that is safe and doesn't leave him vulnerable or stale a move he's going to need to use to kill olimar. As soon as DDD goes in the air with pikmin latched I will either run in for a usmash, uair, grab, or nair depending on distance away DDD is and the height in the air.
Purple pikmin: these ****ers are annoying in just about every match-up, but as I pointed out before, DDD is huge target. Purple pikmin not only knock DDD away to allow olimar more room to space and pressure with more pikmin but they also have tremendous kill potential. An uncharged purple usmash will kill DDD ~100 with moderate DI (assuming it's not stale).
Just a grab: 1 grab with olimar (vs DDD) can potentially put DDD from 0-60, if not more. DDD is soooo easy to combo! The way he gets knock back from attacks can set him up into a grab as well. At low percents fsmash, jab, dtilt, fair (though not a great option), dair (again not a great option), utilt and nair will all set up for that one grab. Say olimar doesn't use his usmash in the combo, and he was able to get 50% off in a grab combo.... just a few pikmin tosses, maybe another grab, or even a couple attack here and there and he's already in kill percent.

With that last one, I have to go. I didn't mean to sound completely one sided though <.< I know DDD has some tricksies of his own, and sometimes he just flat out beat olimar with priority, which should be your focus when playing against an olimar. DDD's grab can work well against olimar, even though it's not a guaranteed CG... most olimar's will run into predictable and very punishable patterns which can be abused very early on in the set. Getting that one grab can be hard though if the olimar is playing like a little ***** and camping the whole time.

~Fino

EDIT:

Commander_Beef said:
since you're the "best Olimar out there"...

Where did this garbage come from O.o? lol

Commander_Beef · Sep 16, 2009

Finolimar said:
Where did this garbage come from O.o? lol

Thank you...
And I only said that out of a joke because you always put your name under your posts.

ZEDD · Sep 17, 2009

As others have said, it is agreed by many, and it also happens to be my opinon, that Olimar is one of Dedede's worst match-ups, but there is a way to actually play well against Olimar, regardless the match-up remains in Olimar's favor in whichever strategy you take. But note that getting Olimar off the ground is essential in winning this match-up, whether by inhales or throws(which are difficult to do on Olimar), just get him into the air and start some aerial pressure(this is where Dedede shines in the match up, and if you choke during these times it can cost you the match) where you are almost always guaranteed to have olimar in a position where you can get a hit off if not a kill by an edgeguard.

Fino · Sep 17, 2009

ZEDD said:
As others have said, it is agreed by many, and it also happens to be my opinon, that Olimar is one of Dedede's worst match-ups, but there is a way to actually play well against Olimar, regardless the match-up remains in Olimar's favor in whichever strategy you take. But note that getting Olimar off the ground is essential in winning this match-up, whether by inhales or throws(which are difficult to do on Olimar), just get him into the air and start some aerial pressure(this is where Dedede shines in the match up, and if you choke during these times it can cost you the match) where you are almost always guaranteed to have olimar in a position where you can get a hit off if not a kill by an edgeguard.

Olimar in the air is bad for olimar, I agree. Inhale isn't the best move to do that though. When I see inhale I see a free fsmash or dsmash, because DDD actually inhales the pikmin towards him. Your ftilt is a good move that gets around most of what olimar has.

~Fino

Buuman · Sep 17, 2009

Finolimar said:
All in all it's just a bad match-up for DDD. I'm not going to be close minded about it though, it you want to debate it, I would be glad to do so. I'll start with a couple points, feel free to bring in other things I missed... there's no way I can cover a match-up in one sweep XD
Problems DDD runs into:
Range: Olimar can out space DDD with smashes and grabs from mid-rage, and also out camp him from far away. Olimar's biggest vulnerability is going to be close up, which DDD will have trouble getting into due to his slow maneuverability and approach game.
Edge guarding: A significant weakness of olimar is his recovery, though a good olimar will know how to DI and when to whistle on-coming edgeguard tactics. Granted this, he is still vulnerable. IMO, I could be wrong though, DDD has trouble getting the gimp on olimar due to heavy predictability in the air. You know if a DDD is above you with his back facing he's going to FF a bair, but if he's below is going to jump and bair. Facing you he's going to jump fair, or FF a uair... but that would he olimar if anything =-/ Not saying those are the only options, just giving scenarios.
Those Annoying Minions: Pikmin spam just hurts DDD. Being such a large and fat penguin that he is, olimar is not going to have a problem aiming pikmin. On top of that, what is DDD going to do to get pikmin off in a manor that is safe and doesn't leave him vulnerable or stale a move he's going to need to use to kill olimar. As soon as DDD goes in the air with pikmin latched I will either run in for a usmash, uair, grab, or nair depending on distance away DDD is and the height in the air.
Purple pikmin: these ****ers are annoying in just about every match-up, but as I pointed out before, DDD is huge target. Purple pikmin not only knock DDD away to allow olimar more room to space and pressure with more pikmin but they also have tremendous kill potential. An uncharged purple usmash will kill DDD ~100 with moderate DI (assuming it's not stale).
Just a grab: 1 grab with olimar (vs DDD) can potentially put DDD from 0-60, if not more. DDD is soooo easy to combo! The way he gets knock back from attacks can set him up into a grab as well. At low percents fsmash, jab, dtilt, fair (though not a great option), dair (again not a great option), utilt and nair will all set up for that one grab. Say olimar doesn't use his usmash in the combo, and he was able to get 50% off in a grab combo.... just a few pikmin tosses, maybe another grab, or even a couple attack here and there and he's already in kill percent.

With that last one, I have to go. I didn't mean to sound completely one sided though <.< I know DDD has some tricksies of his own, and sometimes he just flat out beat olimar with priority, which should be your focus when playing against an olimar. DDD's grab can work well against olimar, even though it's not a guaranteed CG... most olimar's will run into predictable and very punishable patterns which can be abused very early on in the set. Getting that one grab can be hard though if the olimar is playing like a little ***** and camping the whole time.

~Fino

EDIT:

Where did this garbage come from O.o? lol

I like this. Accurate description on the matchup. Lacking details on Dededes court but that's okay. I'll add onto this later if I get some time.

Commander_Beef · Sep 17, 2009

If we shorthop an inhale at least when we are coming near vertical on you, you cannot forward smash or down smash it. We will already have had you in our mouth and/or the super armor frames of our inhale will be in effect.
Using forward tilt more than once can annoy Olimar to approach and that's when we spotdodge and start a grab tech chase. It's much better against Olimar and Pikachu because they have shorter tech rolls than all the other characters in the game. I suggest practicing tech chase readings.
But yes our real advantage we'll attain is when Olimar is in the air. It neutralizes his ground game (which is the heart of Olimar) while we thrive in the air for this matchup. We must watch for an airdodge or whistle first though...or it'll be one of those predictable moments.

DanGR · Sep 17, 2009

You guys are downing your character without thinking about a lot of things. :dizzy:

Approaching:
Fsmash.
You can punish it out of shield at any distance. Ftilt and running grabs work well to do that.

Grab.
You can running spotdodge through it. If you're at low enough a percent you can purposely get grabbed and break out before the pikmin in the grab gets back to Oli. Ftilt will beat it out too.

Pivotgrab.
You can run and stop just before the extent of the grab. That or just short hop over it. Good job. You just gained precious stage space. Mix this fake-out into your approaches and you'll get Oli to the edge of the stage in no time. Then no more pivotgrabs. Profit.

Use a mixup of those^ and ftilts when you think he'll grab to get him in the air. Grab him and then throw him up if you're in the middle of the stage, or back if your back is near enough to the ledge to throw him off.

If you throw him up, space upairs/bairs at him then fast fall to the ground where he'll be after he airdodges/whistles. Run under him and shield and watch for nairs. Then you can grab again when you're sure it's safe, and then repeat. You might wanna catch his landing with your suck-in move or a waddle if he's too far away to grab. Those'll get him in the air again too.
If you decide to throw him offstage with bthrow, bait the whistle and bair him afterwards. If he recovers from below, edgehog and then use the invincibility frames from grabbing the ledge to bair through any edgehog deterring moves like upair.

Oli's combo game:
Oli has good combos, but he certainly can't combo you to 60%+ unless you get really predictable and have bad DI. If you get grabbed at 0% you're gonna get dthrown->fair/upsmash 70% of the time. The 30% will be a pikmin throw->grab or a pivotgrab/regrab.

Assume he's going to choose the followup option you're not covering and both jump and DI back and away.

If you get faired watch out for a grab or fsmash. You can spotdodge through them if you have good timing, you can just roll away, or ftilt if you think he'll grab, which will be about 80% of the time. Dthrow->fair->grab isn't a true combo. Don't treat it as such.
If you get upsmashed, and you think he'll jump into an upair you can either airdodge to the ground afterwards and uptilt/grab him, or keep DIing away.

It really depends on how the Olimar player likes to combo. Most will just go for the upsmash. If you get a read, you can do some damage.
______________

If you'll notice, that's very similar to how you fight him with Snake. You approach cautiously and on the ground, hoping you'll pick the right approach. Be very patient when you're approaching and stop occasionally when you're running at him to get him to pivotgrab. That way you'll get him to the edge of the stage more quickly. You may take a lot of damage getting close, but you'll rack up damage well once you do approach successfully and get that grab in. If nothing else, KEEP GRABBING HIM WHEN HE LANDS. He's very slow in the air. You can jump up and bair him if you want, but be sure to get to the ground just before he lands.

Fino · Sep 17, 2009

Like always, DanGR is wrong on so many things ._.
Dis-reguard everything except that last sentance... only because most olimars (ie the stupid ones) will usually try to combo with fsmash.
Were it me, I know dthrow fsmash regrab is guaranteed, and from then dthrow fair + follow-up... the follow-up isn't guaranteed however, but is possible due to DDD's size and weight. If I catch the DI of the DDD, a dthrow pivot grab can sometimes be predicted at low %

~Fino

DanGR · Sep 17, 2009

What's wrong about it. I've tested this stuff.

>____>

o-Serin-o · Sep 17, 2009

Good stuff. We finally got 2 pages worth.

DanGR · Sep 18, 2009

I'm still waiting for reasons why my summary on approaching and not getting juggled is wrong.

I double checked everything.

Fino · Sep 21, 2009

DanGR said:
You guys are downing your character without thinking about a lot of things.

Approaching:
Fsmash.
You can punish it out of shield at any distance. Ftilt and running grabs work well to do that.

Grab.
You can running spotdodge through it. If you're at low enough a percent you can purposely get grabbed and break out before the pikmin in the grab gets back to Oli. Ftilt will beat it out too.

Pivotgrab.
You can run and stop just before the extent of the grab. That or just short hop over it. Good job. You just gained precious stage space. Mix this fake-out into your approaches and you'll get Oli to the edge of the stage in no time. Then no more pivotgrabs. Profit.

Use a mixup of those^ and ftilts when you think he'll grab to get him in the air. Grab him and then throw him up if you're in the middle of the stage, or back if your back is near enough to the ledge to throw him off.

If you throw him up, space upairs/bairs at him then fast fall to the ground where he'll be after he airdodges/whistles. Run under him and shield and watch for nairs. Then you can grab again when you're sure it's safe, and then repeat. You might wanna catch his landing with your suck-in move or a waddle if he's too far away to grab. Those'll get him in the air again too.

If you decide to throw him offstage with bthrow, bait the whistle and bair him afterwards. If he recovers from below, edgehog and then use the invincibility frames from grabbing the ledge to bair through any edgehog deterring moves like upair.

Oli's combo game:
Oli has good combos, but he certainly can't combo you to 60%+ unless you get really predictable and have bad DI. If you get grabbed at 0% you're gonna get dthrown->fair/upsmash 70% of the time. The 30% will be a pikmin throw->grab or a pivotgrab/regrab.

Assume he's going to choose the followup option you're not covering and both jump and DI back and away.

If you get faired watch out for a grab or fsmash. You can spotdodge through them if you have good timing, you can just roll away, or ftilt if you think he'll grab, which will be about 80% of the time. Dthrow->fair->grab isn't a true combo. Don't treat it as such.

If you get upsmashed, and you think he'll jump into an upair you can either airdodge to the ground afterwards and uptilt/grab him, or keep DIing away.

It really depends on how the Olimar player likes to combo. Most will just go for the upsmash. If you get a read, you can do some damage.
______________

If you'll notice, that's very similar to how you fight him with Snake. You approach cautiously and on the ground, hoping you'll pick the right approach. Be very patient when you're approaching and stop occasionally when you're running at him to get him to pivotgrab. That way you'll get him to the edge of the stage more quickly. You may take a lot of damage getting close, but you'll rack up damage well once you do approach successfully and get that grab in. If nothing else, KEEP GRABBING HIM WHEN HE LANDS. He's very slow in the air. You can jump up and bair him if you want, but be sure to get to the ground just before he lands.

I went ahead and bolded everything wrong, for your convenience.
(1) You cannot punish fsmash at any distance. Spaced f-smashes hitting on shield aren't punishable, they can be followed up by pivot grabs or pikmin tosses before the opponent can do anything.
(2) Though the DDD boards don't seem to have easy access to frame data, iirc DDD's spot dodge is quite long (27 frame total... though I could be dead wrong). Olimar can grab, and if DDD spot dodges so that the invulnerability frames start the frame olimars grab box hits DDD, olimar can use an fsmash or another grab before DDD can punish with an ftilt (frame data on ftilt would help disprove this).
(3) Can people breakout on other pikmin besides purple... I honestly don't know =-/ My solution to that is buffer throwing, but if he can break out... I wish you guys happy mashing ^^;
(4) I hate when people say bait oli's whistle. Other characters don't bait whistles, they bait aerial dodges. I whistle when I see an attack come out... I dunno about you, but I'm not going to start spamming it when I'm offstage.
(5) Does bair beat uair? Even if it does, assume the uair is out and DDD drops down to bair. Knowing that DDD's bair doesn't come out no frame one, they uair is most likely going to hit DDD out of invincibility frames.
(6) Olimar certainly can combo DDD to ~60% using dthrow fair or usmash right at 0 would be stupid when you're almost guaranteed better follow-ups on the heavy, big penguin
(7) If I noticed a DDD wanting to spot dodge my grabs and fsmash follow-ups from fair, I would anticipate that and follow up with a pivot grab.
(8) Uair and immediate nair covers this option.

~Fino

DanGR · Sep 21, 2009

Finolimar said:
I went ahead and bolded everything wrong, for your convenience.
(1) You cannot punish fsmash at any distance. Spaced f-smashes hitting on shield aren't punishable, they can be followed up by pivot grabs or pikmin tosses before the opponent can do anything.

Dude, I tested it. DDD can ftilt or grab before Olimar before he can do any of that stuff. And the only thing Oli can do before D3 grabs him is spotdodge.

(2) Though the DDD boards don't seem to have easy access to frame data, iirc DDD's spot dodge is quite long (27 frame total... though I could be dead wrong). Olimar can grab, and if DDD spot dodges so that the invulnerability frames start the frame olimars grab box hits DDD, olimar can use an fsmash or another grab before DDD can punish with an ftilt (frame data on ftilt would help disprove this).

It's entirely possible.

(3) Can people breakout on other pikmin besides purple... I honestly don't know =-/ My solution to that is buffer throwing, but if he can break out... I wish you guys happy mashing ^^;

This is entirely possible as well.

(4) I hate when people say bait oli's whistle. Other characters don't bait whistles, they bait aerial dodges. I whistle when I see an attack come out... I dunno about you, but I'm not going to start spamming it when I'm offstage.

It's called baiting. D3 jumps towards you with his back turned, you react by whistling, and the D3 waits until you whistle to backair. It is impossible to react to the animation of his backair. The only thing you can do is react to the movement of his body towards you and then whistle in anticipation of it.

(5) Does bair beat uair? Even if it does, assume the uair is out and DDD drops down to bair. Knowing that DDD's bair doesn't come out no frame one, they uair is most likely going to hit DDD out of invincibility frames.

You can't hit someone out of invincibility frames. The idea is that you get on the ledge, granting you invincibility, and then drop off and backair when you've still got them. NOTHING except armor or invincibility will go through an invincible hitbox- that includes Olimar's upair.

(6) Olimar certainly can combo DDD to ~60% using dthrow fair or usmash right at 0 would be stupid when you're almost guaranteed better follow-ups on the heavy, big penguin.

Just... no. <_<

(7) If I noticed a DDD wanting to spot dodge my grabs and fsmash follow-ups from fair, I would anticipate that and follow up with a pivot grab.
(8) Uair and immediate nair covers this option.

I listed options, signified by the word "can"- not the end-all solution to avoiding getting juggled. If the Olimar player can predict the retaliation/airdodge and has the frame advantage to punish it, then that's something both players have to account for. That's a given.

o-Serin-o · Sep 21, 2009

Can't you get other Olimar mains into this please? =x

professor mgw · Sep 21, 2009

Olimar is going to **** in the butt lol.

This match-up is to out of wack.

Fino · Sep 21, 2009

DanGR said:
Dude, I tested it. DDD can ftilt or grab before Olimar before he can do any of that stuff. And the only thing Oli can do before D3 grabs him is spotdodge.

It's called baiting. D3 jumps towards you with his back turned, you react by whistling, and the D3 waits until you whistle to backair. It is impossible to react to the animation of his backair. The only thing you can do is react to the movement of his body towards you and then whistle in anticipation of it.

You can't hit someone out of invincibility frames. The idea is that you get on the ledge, granting you invincibility, and then drop off and backair when you've still got them. NOTHING except armor or invincibility will go through an invincible hitbox- that includes Olimar's upair.

I listed options, signified by the word "can"- not the end-all solution to avoiding getting juggled. If the Olimar player can predict the retaliation/airdodge and has the frame advantage to punish it, then that's something both players have to account for. That's a given.

(1) Interesting, well if you say you've tested it I'll take your word ;D

(2) True, in this situation it can be said that both people are baiting the others reaction. This argument doesn't have an answer, so we'll leave it at that I guess.

(3) What I meant was that you can uair when you see someone grab the ledge (after their invincible frames start) and then uair. The uair would outlast the invincible frame, and hit them on the available frame that their not invincible. In this situation olimar would wait a moment before uairing thus to outlast his invulnerability.

(4) Understood, listing options for DDD is good, since I don't know anything about playing as him I can't really do that XD. All I know is olimar stuff ^^;

~Fino

Arora · Sep 21, 2009

I hate this matchup
the only thing good is that olimar is lightweight

CRASHiC · Sep 21, 2009

Actually Fin, Seib's strategy for beating you guys revolves completely around baiting the whistle.
He bairs your pikamen, and then makes you guess if he's going to bair you or reverse inhale.

DanGR · Sep 21, 2009

Finolimar said:
(3) What I meant was that you can uair when you see someone grab the ledge (after their invincible frames start) and then uair. The uair would outlast the invincible frame, and hit them on the available frame that their not invincible. In this situation olimar would wait a moment before uairing thus to outlast his invulnerability.

When you get on the ledge you get invincibility frames for a set duration; likewise, those frames are not restricted to you being on the ledge. If you get off asap, you get to keep some of those invincibility frames. That's when you attack. There is no gap of vulnerability between getting off the ledge and attacking if you do it quickly. So if an Olimar player goes for the upair, the DDD player can simply drop down and bair him out of it while he's invincible. It's failproof.

Countcocofang · Sep 26, 2009

Also, we have left out what stages are good or bad for Olimar in particular. I went to a tournament where rainbow cruise was banned and he banned frigate and I had no idea where to go ;_;

CRASHiC · Sep 26, 2009

From there, I'd go FD personally. Camping underneath a platform works very well for him.

Jupz · Sep 26, 2009

FD against Olimar? Not a good idea. Platforms aid in getting over to him. Sure battlefield isn't a good option either, but think about smashville. You can use the platform to get over to him, and he can't camp under it all the time.

TlocCPU · Sep 30, 2009

Lol. Olimar is 50/50. After hours spent with Richbrown and Fiction just trying to figure out every little thing Dedede can do to olimar, we've found a very powerful working strategy that makes Olimar mains cry. I don't lose to olimar anymore except Rich who I go even with.

o-Serin-o · Sep 30, 2009

Protip: Instead of just saying "Lol this matchup is XX:XX, actually explain what you do so that others can learn from it.

Commander_Beef · Sep 30, 2009

TlocCPU said:
we've found a very powerful working strategy that makes Olimar mains cry.

CPU...this is the King Dedede boards. Share it with us.

TlocCPU · Sep 30, 2009

o-Serin-o said:
Protip: Instead of just saying "Lol this matchup is XX:XX, actually explain what you do so that others can learn from it.

Protip: always end quotes with an ending quotation mark.

Commander_Beef said:
CPU...this is the King Dedede boards. Share it with us.

I'm not going to share it here. I'm surprised you don't already know the strategy seeing as you get to play with Minitroika all the time. Talk to me on AiB or go on AiB and get my AIM and I'll tell you everything I know since you're a fellow socal dedede

o-Serin-o · Sep 30, 2009

Oops. Typo.

Commander_Beef · Sep 30, 2009

TlocCPU said:
I'm not going to share it here. I'm surprised you don't already know the strategy seeing as you get to play with Minitroika all the time. Talk to me on AiB or go on AiB and get my AIM and I'll tell you everything I know since you're a fellow socal dedede

Thank you sire. I shall do so.

Jupz · Sep 30, 2009

Shhhh beef tell us all

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