How to be an irritating (meaning effective) Brawl player

If you've known me long enough, you know that I play in pretty infuriating ways. I take "play to win" to the extreme and laugh as I plank, fly under the stage, d-tilt lock, infinite, and all other sorts of infuriating things.
While I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy playing this way, I don't play this way solely for enjoyment. I don't play Brawl for enjoyment. I play it to win money. If you pay attention to all the complainers out there, they generally are complaining about things that are affecting them... but not things that they personally do. You rarely see the IC player saying "man, these infinites are so dumb" or the Metaknight getting up from the ledge to say "You're right, I should give you equal opportunity to hit me". It's because when someone gets mad, it's because they are losing.

Think about that for a second.

Organize that paragraph into a coherent thought and message, and chew on it.

People complain about things that other people do that make it harder to win.

That's amazing! You've just been given the single best advice for ANY competitive game you've ever received. Listen to what people hate the most, and then DO IT. The better the player, the more likely it will be an effective strategy.
Unfortunately it isn't that easy. If picking up Metaknight and grabbing the edge, playing the ICs and infiniting, CGing and laser camping with Falco, or any of these other "omg so irritating" strategies REALLY won the sets the evolution of smash would occur at light speed and we'd all be playing the same few characters.
There are secrets you have to know in order to REALLY unlock irritating play. After all, irritating play is the most effective. If you impress your opponent, that means you are putting forth a ton of effort. Effort means mistakes. Why do that awesome 0-80 string and follow it up with a tech chase smash for a KO when you can just tornado 5 times in a row and then up+b and edgeguard? Doesn't make any sense unless you're playing for some other reason.
Being one of the most irritating players in the game when I choose to be, I'll tell you everything I know. Maybe you'll learn something! If you read anything I say and feel heat rising in the back of your neck and a vein throbbing in your forehead, that means I'm awesome!

HOW TO BE AN IRRITATING PLAYER

Step 1: Rethinking Character Choice

I know, I know. You've already got your character. You love him or her or it, and never want to play anyone else. If you have that mentality, stop reading and continue giving players like me your money.

To be a truly irritating player, your character needs one of two things:
1. Superior mobility
This includes vertical and horizontal aerial movement (think Falco and Wario), hard to stop special movement (Falco, MK, Pikachu, etc.), fast dash speeds (MK, Sonic, etc.), and the like.
2. Superior defense
This includes good rolls (MK, Lucario, etc.), good shields (Diddy kong), good OoS options including grabs (MK, Snake, Diddy, Falco, etc.), good spot dodges (ROB, Diddy, D3), good air dodges (Diddy, Wario, etc.), good interrupts (Snake's nades, MKs nado, Marth's counter, etc.), good projectile games (Falco, Diddy, Wario's tires bouncing on the ground, etc.) and the like.

The two things that mobility and defense have in common is that they prevent your opponent from doing what they set out to do. Have you ever seen someone attack a ROB and the ROB spot dodges and d-smashes and laughs maniacally? What about someone hitting Snake's shield and freaking exploding because they were a few pixels off? Or better yet, somehow missing the grenade because THAT Metaknight practiced the snake matchup day in and day out until he learned to dair and fair the Snake's shield without exploding, except now the snake just forward tilts him, picks up the nade, then throws it? In the vein of mobility, remember Pikachu players up+bing all over and spamming thunder jolts, Falco over-bing in the grand finals so he can laser more, or MK just grabbing the ledge, air camping, or gliding under the stage? Doesn't that piss you off, these characters swatting you off like flies and dancing around you?

Rule of thumb when picking your character: The more mobility and defensive options you have that are just flat out superior, the more irritating your character is to play against. You d-smash an Ike's shield and he jabs you. Big deal. You d-smash a Snake's shield and he f-tilts you once to trip you, then f-tilts you with both hits to deal 30% total. Irritating.
If your character doesn't HAVE these options, your character is not irritating to play against unless your opponent doesn't know what they are doing. Soon your low tier will be destroyed, people just haven't figured out how to punish you yet. The characters with superior mobility and defense? They can't be punished. That's why they are good. You can't catch them, and if you can, you can't touch them.
So think long and hard about your character choice. If you chose a character who doesn't have the qualities listed above, choose a new one. If you're struggling to think of multiple qualities that fit the above description, you've picked a bad character AND you are delusional and/or stupid. Pick a new character or wallow in mediocrity!

Step 2: Rethinking aggression

At low %, aggression is good. I'm a campy player and enjoy camping, stalling, and the like. You might as well have the timer count down to orgasm instead of "Game!", because that's how awesome it is. If you haven't timed out someone in tournament and then did it AGAIN the next tournament to the same person, you haven't lived.
As I was saying, at low % aggression is good. You can combo at low %! This means you can deal a significant amount of damage once you get a good opening.

So you should approach at low %, right?

WRONG!

You stay as far away as you can and try to force the opponent to approach! You dance around seemingly aimlessly while keeping yourself in a good position! You predict what your opponent's preferred method or approach is, then you make the Falco who wants a grab (prefer the air my ***) jump to reach you and the Metaknight who is dair camping is gonna be jumping for exercise when you just sit on the ground a distance away and just wait for him to land.

See, approaching when your opponent is at low % is a good thing because you can combo him. If you're both at a low %, you're as dumb as someone standing up in the middle of a firefight because hey, why not? Bullets kill pretty fast so he should be safe if he just shoots the bad guy first.

No.
You duck and cover and wait for them to poke their head out and you shoot them in the face and they die because you are clever and not influenced by dumb things like honor and integrity. No, you dress up like an old lady and shank the guy in the ribs when he's shopping in the supermarket the day before the duel you scheduled, then you make fun of him for not showing up to your duel the next day. You are the victor in this exchange!
Same in smash.
Make your opponent mentally accept the fact they have to approach you, and they will. There are no projectiles in this game that are impossible to stop, so don't complain if he just spams stuff at you. Dodge. He's 3% ahead? So? Dodge more. He'll break. They always do.

This way you're more likely to get the advantage, because when someone is approaching they are putting forth effort and trying to trick you. Once you get that small advantage, you KEEP doing it because you're still at a low %. Eventually you'll mess up or they'll do something awesome and then you won't have that low % anymore so you can approach some if you want until you're at kill %, but by then they'll be at kill % and you'll be too busy drinking their blood from a goblet.

So now you know to approach only when your opponent makes a mistake, thus making you entirely safe except for your own defensive mistakes (which are much harder to make than aggressive mistakes), right?

WRONG!
...

AGAIN!

Hahahaha, silly players. You don't approach. Why would you do that? You hit him if he lands in range. If he doesn't, just call him a silly name and let him try again. When he messes up again, THEN you can hit him. Maybe. If you can't, no big deal. Keep moving around the stage. He'll mess up and hit your shield too close or do an aerial out of range and you'll get a free hit. If you're lucky, a free combo! But don't push it. It's more important to get 8% for sure than a 80% chance to get 30%.
The difference between the great players and all you mediocre mid-level players that can't even get top 8 in regionals (other than character choice, all you mid/low/bottom tier pot fodder players) is that they know when to STOP. When a good player sees a stop sign, he slows down in advance. When a mediocre player sees a stop sign, he keeps speeding and slams on the brakes last second and hopes he doesn't die. Don't approach someone just because they used a laggy move. That's stupid. That means you're approaching and we already know that doesn't work. Don't be a stupid. Be a smart. Hit them if they land in range, otherwise, let them try and bait you BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING. That Lucario knows. He's sneaky, like a bandit. He knows that f-smash won't hit you. While you are chortling at his incompetence due to his poorly spaced f-smash, he is waiting for you to try to punish him so he can spot dodge and grab you, or simply f-smash you again because his forward smash has no lag! Every player does this when someone isn't approaching. It's their last-ditch approach to make YOU approach so they don't have to do the work. Don't give in. While he's f-smashing, call him a silly twit and flip him off. He'll be so enraged, he'll walk into your f-smash! Maybe. Either way, it'd be fun and it fits with the theme of this post.

Step 3: Rethinking positioning

Most characters have a weakness ('cept Metaknight, hahahahahaha, **** you other character maining people!) related to one or more of the following:
-not being able to edgeguard
-not being able to KO from the stage
-having a poor recovery
-not being Metaknight

And characters often have a strength that is an inverse of the previous truths:
-being able to edgeguard
-being able to KO from the stage
-having an amazing recovery
-being Metaknight

What your character can do determines where you should be on the stage. The above are just the tip of the iceberg. Your character might do well with plats, and if so push your opponent on them and stay near them. If your character doesn't, stay the hell away. Get the gist?

If your character can edgeguard, you want to stay near the stage so you can hit the opponent off an edgeguard them. Going to the center of the stage or hitting people vertically is counterproductive and helpful to your opponent. Which is more irritating, an MK in the middle of the stage attempting to grab and combo you, or an MK knocking you off stage with a single d-smash and edgeguarding you for 80%? You be the judge if you are the MK player named Judge from MI. Otherwise, be whoever you are and know that the second one is infinitely more irritating.
If your character has a great recovery, that means you can get hit off stage all day and not care. If you're G&W, you could not care less if someone hits you by the edge. You bucket brake, and then you up+b with your super launching parachute and continue doing your thing.

Think of things in that fashion. Strengths and weaknesses. Actions and reactions. If you speed in your car, your wreck will be more brutal than if you drove like a grandma. As such, you can speed more safely on straight interstates where you won't spin out and die, but you slow the hell down when driving in the middle of the country where they have crosses on every corner to signify the people who died because they HAD TO GET HOME TO WATCH THEIR SHOWS.
Why do you think Falco and Diddy stay in the center of the stage and throw bananas and spam projectiles? They aren't stupid, they know that they have a bad recovery and they cannot effectively edgeguard. As such, they irritate the hell out of their opponents because they just hit you off the stage and continue throwing projectiles at you and dancing in the middle of the stage, waiting patiently for you to come back so they throw you off again.

If you can edgeguard and have a great recovery, keep the fight near the edge. If you can kill from the stage and your opponent can't, keep the fight in the center of the stage. If you can KO vertically, stay in the center of the stage. It's pretty simple.
If you haven't realized this prior to reading this, slap yourself. If no one was around to see you do it, call for whoever else lives in your house to come in and watch this hilarious youtube video, then slap yourself in front of them and say "I'm an idiot, mom". I don't care if it isn't your mom, say it anyway.

Step 4: Rethinking Stages

Let's say you're Diddy Kong. You've got FD banned and won on Smashville, then that ******* took you Rainbow Cruise! You couldn't do anything and the MK just wrecked you! (He picked an irritating stage for you!)
How did he know to pick that stage?!
It could be that he's an idiot that just saw a video or maybe he reeeeeeally likes boats and pirate ship was banned, but it is infinitely more likely that he at least partially logically thought it through.
When choosing a stage, you need to think about your strengths in relation to your opponent's weaknesses.
What the Metaknight player realized on Smashville (because he was too dumb to glide under the stage to make Diddy's bananas disappear until he had an opening) was that Diddy was REALLY good at controlling space. REALLY good.

On the ground.

Whenever that MK got a grab, he wrecked that Diddy's face. Otherwise, Diddy comboed him all day and MK couldn't do anything and it was so IRRITATING.

So, he realized that Diddy was weak in the air AND he had strength on the ground, specifically FLAT ground with little to no platform interruption. Obvious opposite to those would be Rainbow Cruise! You're in the air all the time, and even the flat parts have multiple platforms and uneven ground. The Diddy thought he might get a wall infinite on the ship part, but that MK said no way José (the Diddy player was of Spanish origin and they were on a first name basis) and just say on the top right section of the ship. Diddy deal about 13% with bananas and peanuts, and the MK didn't care. He just waited and dodged most of it and then beat the Diddy when he had the advantage.

So WTF does Diddy do? Obviously the best choice is FD, but the MK wasn't stupid and banned that.
Uh... Battlefield? It is also flat, right?

INCORRECT.

Think carefully about what Diddy wants. What are his strengths? What are his weaknesses?
Diddy can't KO. It takes foreverrrrrr.
Diddy has a pretty good recovery distance-wise, but is most vulnerable when using it.
Diddy prefers long, flat surfaces.
Diddy can use platforms, but doesn't like them stealing his bananas.
Diddy is fast.
Diddy doesn't like MK dancing around in the air like a fairy.
Diddy has trouble getting to the ground safely unless his opponent messes up; even when he hits the ground, he's often out of position and has no bananas.
Diddy likes to have control.

So what stage fixes ALL of these problems?

Pictochat

Seriously, think about it. It's a LARGE stage, so when you're in the center of the stage you'll survive forever. You can't KO anyway, so it doesn't matter. You're living to 200%. It's on like Donkey Kong, except you are Diddy. Having trouble KO? Not anymore, because you hit MK with your bananas and combo that into a grab and throw him directly into a piranha plant and/or mine car and/or spikes. MK comboing you? Good thing every 10 seconds there is a new drawing to mess him up and HEY LOOK PICTOCHAT HAS TONS OF WALLS. Diddy just got multiple surprise opportunities to infinite his opponent. Diddy is also able to research this stage and learn things like when transformations take place, what spots are safe from the hazardous transformations, kill % for vertical/horizontal KOs from center stage or the side, stuff no one else knows. How irritating is that for the MK?! Diddy has every conceivable advantage. The only thing that could go wrong is if you are comboing MK and a transformation blocks it, and that's gonna be super rare... and if it does happen it just means you get two free bananas because the transformations will sometimes pause conflict. Did I mention that? Diddy doesn't have to worry about throwing you off stage for bananas here. He just waits, and then pulls them. Good luck catching Diddy here, MK! He doesn't have to deal with your crap. He just runs away and eventually the safety whale appears and Diddy shuffle dances inside his belly with two bananas and a peanut gun.

Can you imagine how irritating it must be for the MK? Pictochat is LONGER than FD and the sides are shorter! This means that MK has less time edgeguarding and gets banana-chained to the edge into an f-smash to die at earlier % than he would in most other stages! Diddy don't have these problems, cuz he's center-stage alllllllllll day. Get owned, MK that got taken to Pictochat.

If Pictochat is banned in your area, your TOs are scrubs that want the game to be as simple as possible because they can't comprehend change. They might not admit it, but in Melee? They secretly wanted to ban Dream Land 64 because of that one time the wind prevented them from hitting that f-smash tipper... even though it did not. Stupid scrub TO. Stop banning stages that DIDDY NEEDS.

Step 5: Rethinking the purpose of a timer

Remember when I said every action has a reaction? That's some sciencey thing I heard somewhere sometime, but it's true. I'm pretty sure.
When people wanted to host tournaments, they were able to do so and it was fun. Then money was involved to make the play more interesting, but it ended up also making it more lame. People camped (OMG SO BORING TO WAAAATCH, amirite?) and then Mew2King came along and was like "hey guys, I like it better when you can't move, so I'm gonna chaingrab you forever and then laser camp until you're at kill %". Did you know that?
MEW2KING WAS THE BIGGEST HIGH PROFILE SMASHER TO BREAK INTO THE ELITE RANKS BY CAMPING, STALLING, RUNNING AWAY, CHAIN GRABBING, EDGE CAMPING, GIMPING, AND ALL AROUND PLAYING LAME.
Drink it in. Yes, drink it in. The same Mew2King that promotes aggressive play now does it because he can. He remembers his roots though. Playing Gnes at Winterfest, he decides to glide under the stage because wtf can Gnes do about it when Gnes can't think outside his tiny box of pre-determined strategies?! I bet he was irritated. Irritation is good. Be like M2K. Make people mad. Play lame.

Anyway.

During the creation of tournaments, somewhere along the line some genius was like "Guys, come ON. I don't want to stay up until 6 a.m. again. There are like 20 of you still here. Please kill each other." and decided it would be better to have a timer. The timer has been changed and debated a lot, but there will almost always BE a timer.
What happens when the timer runs out?
If you're winning, you win.
You don't have to be better. You just have to be winning when the last second ticks away. ISN'T THAT AMAZING?!
What is more irritating to someone than playing someone obviously worse than them, and then that person taking them out of their element by camping all day and running the timer every match? NOTHING, that's what. So you do it, because it works and is awesome.
Seriously, if you can't beat someone legit and they destroy you first game, why try? They'll destroy you on their CP. If you've got a chance, by all means play in your conventional style. But remember that to repeatedly try the same thing expecting different results is a sure sign of insanity. So maybe change your strategy? Some people use secondaries. Some people choose a zany stage. Those can work, but you can also use the timer to your advantage!
First off, you can pick a campy stage. Luigi's Mansion, Jungle Japes, Smashville for some matchups, Green Greens for some matchups, Delfino sometimes, you can figure it out. These stages can help. You don't really need them though.

See, the trick to this isn't ACTUALLY running the timer out. It's letting your opponent think he's winning because he's in the lead by 13%. You still don't approach because you don't care, and he thinks he'll win because of the timer. He's stupid. You wait and then there's a minute left, assuming he didn't break down and approach (giving you an advantage, remember?).

Remember how this guy destroyed you in an 8 minute game? Did you ever get the lead, just once, in that game? If you did and the time had run out juuuuuuuuuust then, you'd have won that game.

So if someone refuses to approach because they are ahead by a few %, wait until there's only a minute or so left and THEN approach if they haven't. You might not win, but your odds are increased. A quick combo, lucky KO, anything of the sort puts your opponent in panic mode and you can win by simply staying ahead in % for the remaining seconds. Then he'll approach ALL GAME on his CP, giving you ANOTHER advantage.

After doing this a lot, you'll find yourself being patient and calm with only a minute left due to your experience.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAHlBz541H4
^Check it out. That is tournament, yo. From SEPTEMBER 2008! I even was gliding under the stage back then! Ahead of the curve, I tell you.


You know who camps Overswarm?

NOBODY.

Cuz I have a reputation. Everyone always approaches me the moment I start camping because they know I won't. My play in previous games.


So now you know how to be irritating when you play this game. If you play in an irritating way... you're doing GOOD. People are irritated because it is effective!

No one complains about that DK that spams up+b, because that **** don't work. You wait til he starts it then you HIT HIM.

Now...

To recap:
-pick a character that has superior mobility, defense, or both than what your opponent will have
-do not aggressively approach when at low %; it is a high risk scenario at all times, and only high reward in a few scenarios
-do not aggressively punish. What separates good players from mid-level players is their ability to say "now hold on brain, I know he has lag after that move but I haven't punished successfully from this position before and I'd rather have the for sure thing. If I try to grab him now he might spot dodge and grab ME, and that'd just be ****ing stupid". Be a good player, not a mid-level "Darn, I almost had him" player that pretends to know about matchups.
-position yourself appropriately for your strengths and weaknesses in accordance with your opponent's strengths and weaknesses
-pick stages that enhance your strengths while limiting your weaknesses, and doing the inverse for an opponent
-Use the timer to your advantage when you need to, and don't be afraid to use it to win





UPDATE!!!!
MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

What did OS get you for Christmas?!

MORE VIDEOS OF IRRITATING PLAY!

Smash 64 (Snake) vs. Overswarm (ROB?!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAZoEo4xnZk

The benefits of Patience.


Tactical (Lucario) vs. Overswarm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsmOHyg6eac

Using stages to your advantage, no matter how much people might hate them! Watch what happens when I get a 40% lead! :D

Domo (MK) vs. Overswarm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tqtx...eature=related

Another Distant Planet video. What happens when the other person ALSO plays MK? How can you abuse the stage properties to best suit your character when the opponent can do the same?! Watch to find out!

Ripple (DK) vs. Overswarm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moq9B...eature=related

On Smashville, how can OS play in an irritating way against a character like DK?! I can deal more damage and have increased mobility , but he can KO me easily! What shall I DOOOOOO?! AND RIPPLE GETS A STOCK LEAD?! HOW WILL OS COME BACK?! CAN HE AFTER HE SUICIDES AFTER RIPPLE GETS A STOCK LEAD?! WATCH THIS UBER EXCITING MATCH TO FIND OUT! OMG OMG OMG

Ripple (DK) vs. Overswarm 2! ON RIPPLES CP!

Ripple claims to always beat every MK on Luigi's Mansion, and takes OS there. Will OS change his "spam tornado and not really care when he suicides and not change his strategy at all" strategy?! Watch closely.



Holy *** Balls (aka That ****'s on Tape)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZlLI...eature=related

An OS "combo" video! Har har har! Just highlights of irritating play!


Pie Crews: The winning crew gets Pie. OS likes Pie, so he played as irritating as he could. (The players in this video got much better from last year)

Infern Angelis (Ike) vs. Overswarm (Pie crews 1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dxBZ...eature=related

Notice this video was from November 2008. I was ahead of the curve.

The following two matches don't show irritating play very much, but you should watch them and all make fun of the god kais.
Y.b.M. messing up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0gXdwmBmuA&NR=1

Y.b.M. (Kirby) vs. Overswarm (Pie crews 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smXMi...eature=related

Smash64 (G&W) vs. Overswarm (Pie crews 3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwZ-L...eature=related

Victory Pie (OS)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSNqn...eature=related







And finally, me playing my Super Mario World hack posted here for no reason. Merry Christmas.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Overswar.../1/F9Cz187NwRc

first post. interesting read.

Good read OS.

HOWEVER the thing about you only playing the game for money is a bunch of bull****. You love the community. You love playing with the Cincinatti guys. You love helping a new player learn how to play this game (hence the long post). I don't believe and never will believe the garbage you spew about only playing this game for money. You even love tripping on my bananas when we team .

Also, I wish you'd camp vs me rather than the aggro mk that was constantly in my face .

Very interesting read.
Second post.
EDIT: FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
EDIT2: That video. I can't believe Corneria used to be a CP.

great post

i agree with count, lol. you love us =) that's why you help us improve and play against us so much.

good read OS

Brawl isn't actually a bad game like most players think it is. Or at least, it wasn't always. Players like you made it bad. Tournament attendance is half of what it could be and competitive Brawl is a joke to every other community, and even to ITSELF. Wouldn't it be awesome if Brawl were a fun game to watch? We would have a MUCH better chance of making it to MLG, Melee players would stop hating us as much, and attendance would rise. But no, we can't have that, because then we would be scrubs and apparently that is worse than being the greediest mother******s on the planet.

Seems kinda defeatist.

Also, I wish you'd camp vs me rather than the aggro mk that was constantly in my face .

Click to expand...

Make me camp, and I will.

Brawl isn't actually a bad game like most players think it is. Or at least, it wasn't always. Players like you made it bad. Tournament attendance is half of what it could be and competitive Brawl is a joke to every other community, and even to ITSELF. Wouldn't it be awesome if Brawl were a fun game to watch? We would have a MUCH better chance of making it to MLG, Melee players would stop hating us as much, and attendance would rise. But no, we can't have that, because then we would be scrubs and apparently that is worse than being the greediest mother******s on the planet.

Click to expand...

Says the guy with Ganon in his profile.

Overswarm said:

Says the guy with Ganon in his profile.

Click to expand...

I'm a ROB main. I learned how to play from watching you specifically.

i honestly didnt think too much of u. not knowing u or studying ur play style. but i 100% understand where ur coming from these. As u prob know. Me being a falco main, leaves a narrow window for how to play, and i think i know the route to formulate from this. and the new mind set i need to accept and adopt.

ty. much respect.


EDIT: first post in a long time that wasnt a troll. means alot. lol

Twilight Prince said:

I'm a ROB main. I learned how to play from watching you specifically.

Click to expand...

Another garbage character.

(and yes, I knew you were a ROB main but it is too fun to point out Ganon ^_^ I recall your posts on the ROB boards)

honestly didnt think too much of u. not knowing u or studying ur play style. but i 100% understand where ur coming from these. As u prob know. Me being a falco main, leaves a narrow window for how to play, and i think i know the route to formulate from this. and the new mind set i need to accept and adopt.

ty. much respect.


EDIT: first post in a long time that wasnt a troll. means alot. lol

Click to expand...

My respect goes to your troll threads (I know it was youuuuuuuuu)

Saaayyy...you said that we better rethink our characters, but didn't you lose to a SONIC?

Brawl isn't actually a bad game like most players think it is. Or at least, it wasn't always. Players like you made it bad

Click to expand...

The game is what it is, if gay strategies are superior to things that are fun to watch that can only be attributed to the game, brawl is just bad. You can't honestly expect people to use less effective means of play because it's prettier.

Nic64 said:

The game is what it is, if gay strategies are superior to things that are fun to watch that can only be attributed to the game, brawl is just bad. You can't honestly expect people to use less effective means of play because it's prettier.

Click to expand...

I can't, but I CAN expect people to play less gay if it means enlarging the Brawl scene as a whole.

Oh wait, I can't because people are too selfish. I know it's real money we are talking about here, but that doesn't mean it isn't selfish.

New rule: If a match goes to time, BOTH players get DQed from the event and whoever they would have played get free wins.

Obviously, the above rule is flawed, but it would solve a TON of problems.

I would love to flame you, bbbuuuttt.....

I'd rather ask you your thoughts on Tink. I know normally he isn't very good considering top tiers. Regardless, he can be pretty gay. No, he can't circle camp. Yeah, he's got a lot of weakness, but do you see potential for him playing gay proficiently at a high level?

He also has a decent-good anti-plank game.

This is not DMG?!?!?!?!?!

this thread should be a sticky.

You mean for the title how to win at brawl.

great read

I use Sonic, that's generally annoying enough for most people lol.

what kind of diddy would lose to a mk on RC?

Let's say you're Diddy Kong. You've got FD banned and won on Smashville, then that ******* took you Rainbow Cruise! You couldn't do anything and the MK just wrecked you! (He picked an irritating stage for you!)
How did he know to pick that stage?!
It could be that he's an idiot that just saw a video or maybe he reeeeeeally likes boats and pirate ship was banned, but it is infinitely more likely that he at least partially logically thought it through.



*sigh* Why the hell would MK CP Diddy to RC? It makes no sense, I mean think about it, it is Diddy's best stage after all.

Currently, the most irritating match up I have is Diddy Kong and his camping, with his **** peanuts and bananas.

Overswarm said:

No one complains about that DK that spams up+b, because that **** don't work.

Click to expand...

Oh ho ho, I beg to differ OS!

He could be mine to if he responded!




:/


?:<


:0


>:0

then you make the Falco who wants a grab (prefer the air my ***)

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Best part of the post right here.

tl;dr......

AlMoStLeGeNdArY said:

tl;dr......

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if you didn't read it then don't post and have fun staying bad at this game.

sucks that you live in one of the most competitive regions for brawl (EC tristate) but you're so close minded and terrible

clowsui said:

if you didn't read it then don't post and have fun staying bad at this game.

sucks that you live in one of the most competitive regions for brawl (EC tristate) but you're so close minded and terrible

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Na, I'm not closes minded at all. This is a pretty massive wall of text and massive walls of text are massive walls of text. Maybe if he would of broken it up into segments or 3 parts I'd be more inclined to read. Also you don't need to come at my neck like that clowsui it's not cool.

the funny thing is hes actually got steps 1 through 5 in there

good read

SothE700k said:

Saaayyy...you said that we better rethink our characters, but didn't you lose to a SONIC?

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No, I lost to a Shugo.

First time we played in tournament he was the first Sonic main that wasn't ******** I had played and he did as well as you'd expect a good player to do when he's the only one playing that knows the matchup.

Second time we played it went to last stock, last hit, last game with only a few seconds left on the clock.

Now?

He doesn't play Sonic. He plays Falco and MK. Because Sonic can't cut it. He's got speed and it is helpful... but that's about it. Can't rely on matchup inexperience forever.

GET OWWWWWWWWWWWWWNED!

I would love to flame you, bbbuuuttt.....

I'd rather ask you your thoughts on Tink. I know normally he isn't very good considering top tiers. Regardless, he can be pretty gay. No, he can't circle camp. Yeah, he's got a lot of weakness, but do you see potential for him playing gay proficiently at a high level?

He also has a decent-good anti-plank game.

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Toon Link isn't awful, and he really can compete. Unfortunately, he's really not cream of the crop and you are going to get wrecked by the top tiers. We have Quivo living around these parts and he used to be one of the tippity top players but has stopped playing as much as of late. He's still really good, but the prevelance of top tiers like MK and Snake has really taken its toll.

The problem with TL's camp game is that it is veeeeery one-dimensional. It goes off of an algorithm. Doesn't flow. It's clanky, chunky, and TL totally gets messed up if you change the spacing. He has to back up before he can start his routine again and it gets old.

I went to a tournament and pulled out my Rusty ol' ROB and ended up playing Q in brackets. We had a pretty epic set, and neither of us wanted to play it because it was sooooo intense and we had to constantly out-think the other (ROB vs. Toon Link is probably my favorite matchup in the game) and after one Bo5 you don't want to play another....

But I had an advantage because I learned to roll towards him. :\

Rolling towards TL messed up his spacing. TL had a good defensive game with his wall, but what appeared to be great mobility is actually very flawed and strict movement. By simply rolling towards Q, I had to make him suddenly re-think how he was approaching the matchup. When playing MK it gets even worse.

But the basic gist is that while TL can be fun and isn't that bad, once someone knows the matchup those top tiers will wreck him. Keep him as a secondary and pull him out on a CP, perhaps?

Wow...I really appreciate that explanation/ oddly enlightening story. Thanks OS, you more than have my respect.

Brawls a bad game because strategies that work don't look flashy?

Strategies that when both players know how to fight against results in more intense matches for the two players?

"Irritating" is just a facet of smash, more so in Brawl. But most characters have the options to deal with them. People should stop complaining about how Warios gay when their character (most high tiers and up) are fully capable of winning, for example.

Interesting analysis of toonlink, I'm wondering if you could do the same for ZSS? I haven't heard of any good ones in the MW so I duno if you can really but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. As far as your reqs for a good character choice, she's fast by any standard, has decent but not stellar defense (atleast not yet, I have some **** up my sleeve that I'm busting out next tournie I go to).

shadyf0o said:

I am playing for some other reason: to Falcon Punch Meta-knights like you.



I main a low tier (Falcon), and I don't play this game for money. People have forgotten what Smash is about. I play competitive smash for that special moment; that moment when the crowd roars behind you as you Falcon Punch your opponent into oblivion after landing an 18 string combo. I'm much more satisfied landing a Falcon combo string on a higher tier character, then winning 20 dollars in a money match by consecutively smashing the B button. I work for money; I smash to smash. Fear my Falcon Punch.....it's coming for you.

Very constructive thread, nonetheless. Good read.

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Forgotten what smash is about?

I won the Falcon ditto championships once AND I beat the reigning champ in a best of 3 on Port Town Aero Dive, Big Blue, and THE MAN custom stage (where you can get in his belly).

I play for fun all the time! It's awesome!

Just not in tournament. That's like going to an NBA team and telling them it doesn't matter if they win or lose, it's how they play the game! It is true, but not in that context.

If you're playing in tournament to hit someone with a falcon punch, you are not a competitive player. You are a competitive player's jester.



That is you.

Brawls a bad game because strategies that work don't look flashy?

Strategies that when both players know how to fight against results in more intense matches for the two players?

"Irritating" is just a facet of smash, more so in Brawl. But most characters have the options to deal with them. People should stop complaining about how Warios gay when their character (most high tiers and up) are fully capable of winning, for example.

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Agreed completely, except Brawl is a bad game because the pressure you can put on an opponent is inefficient and you have to rely on catching the opponent off guard. In other ways, defensive play is perfect. You literally cannot stop a good defensive opponent no matter how awesome you are unless you call them on something.

While that in itself is okay to an extent (just about everything in real life mimics that), there are no extra factors that alleviate that pressure. In something like boxing, for instance, players become fatigued. Hitting a player will result in lowering their stamina, and thus their defenses. If you punch someone in the face with enough power to break bone if not for those **** gloves they make us wear, they will stagger. In Brawl, this does not happen. Melee had hitstun to mimic this sort of "wearing down" factor. As you became higher in %, combos became more creative and it was infinitely more likely that one hit could lead to a killing blow. In Brawl, the hitstun is so relaxed that defensive play is never given pause. This results in a glorified version of rock paper scissors, more or less. Brawl is more similar to chess than boxing, but is less balanced and precise.

instead of doing all that practicing and hard work with MK, you could just pick kirby, and spam up b, or falco and laser cancel, stuff like that. just as annoying. and meanwhile, you could laugh your head off. I like it when i irritate my opponent from time to time in friendlies (i usually dont spam)

Interesting analysis of toonlink, I'm wondering if you could do the same for ZSS? I haven't heard of any good ones in the MW so I duno if you can really but I'm curious to hear your thoughts. As far as your reqs for a good character choice, she's fast by any standard, has decent but not stellar defense (atleast not yet, I have some **** up my sleeve that I'm busting out next tournie I go to).

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Y.b.M. actually has a pretty cool ZSS, you should play him online sometime. I'm impressed with it for how little he practices her.

As far an analysis for the character.... She can do well in certain matchups, and actually can do better in some matchups than the top tiers.

Unfortunately, she is limited both by her recovery and the linear progression of her gameplay.

Imagine you are ZSS. You want to kill the opponent. How do you do it?

You use your side-b, your bair, your u-air, and in certain situations your down+b kick.

Sure, you've got great options in most situations. Your jab is pretty awesome, your side-b is a spacing dream, and you're fast. Your vertical mobility is GREAT.

But getting the KO?

You are repeatedly saying "Golly gee, I hope my opponent messes up" while using the same moves you've used all match (probably now stale) to KO. The same very, very easy to read moves. One can easily be shielded and cannot be comboed into, one requires your opponent to be vertically above you, and the other requires them to be above and behind you.

This means that ZSS can't KO.

So what happens when you have a fast character that can deal a lot of damage, but can be reliably edgeguarded and can't get KOs herself?

You give the opponent multiple opportunities to attack you, knock you off stage, and kill you. The entire time you are hoping for an opportunity to get a KO because you can't get it on your own.

So in the end, you're going to have to rely on matchup inexperience or a quick early game stock lead via using armor suit pieces in any matchup in which your opponent can edgeguard you.

Snake? Can he edgeguard you? No? ZSS is viable in this matchup. Might not be her greatest, but she can play in it if she's smart.

How about Wario?

But then you get to other characters that CAN edgeguard her or shut down her KO game very easily... and it gets awkward for her.

She's a great pocket character and if people around you don't know the matchup she can compete as if she's a top tier character, but in most situations she is just that: a good secondary.

Also, she doesn't have a grab. WTF is up with that.

I thoroughly read this and surprisingly, I agree with the viewpoints.

Brawl is a very patient game, nonetheless, and it demands a lot of concentration to defeat an opponent who is "skilled" in general.

Nice read. I enjoyed it.

I stand by my disapproval. It's just not the same game once you start hardcore camping to win. Most of the people who go to tournaments go because it is fun for them. If they lose to camping, they don't have fun and are less inclined to go to future tournaments. If they then go online and see that they are viewed as "pot fodder" then they are gone from the competitive scene for good.

I don't give a **** how you play in the grand finals. Do whatever the **** you want to win at that point. But please try to understand that the number of entrants is going to be hurt by your tactics if you bust them out before you need to, and that the number of entrants is by far the most important thing to consider when you are trying to make money.