How to be an irritating (meaning effective) Brawl player

[highfive]

**** it! This whole thread is lawlz!

Win by however means necessary.

Unless it's Gaying your opponent to death with Shuttle Loop spam. Pretty much anything else is legit.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Shuttle loop is VERY punishable.

 

[BSP]

Approaching in brawl is really a bad idea lol.

 

[Holty]

Awesome read!

 

[Overswarm]

Wakka beat you and you didn't camp him soooo..uhhhhh...

What do you think I'll do next time? Last time I played Wakka I 3 stocked him. I was pretty tired, hadn't practiced, he got a lucky barrel spike on the first match, johns, johns, johns, but none of it explains how it switches from a 3 stock last time I saw him to a victory now.... except he improved!

So next time I'll camp him.

Unless it's Gaying your opponent to death with Shuttle Loop spam. Pretty much anything else is legit.

There is no unless. Ever.

If you find a technique that allows you to u-throw with metaknight and throw off a u-air during the grab at the very peak, thus having a 0-death grab at any % that is easy to do... GO WIN POUND. No warning either, **** their **** up.

lol, thats what I thought when I read that. The same strategy has also contributed to Falco's victories. But Falco is not a bad character, right now I'd put money on Larry beating any MK over 50% of the time sans M2K.

No, Falco is bad. I am unimpressed by any victory Larry gets unless there is no anti-planking rule. If he came here and played me, I wouldn't even get a % lead. I'd just immediately grab the ledge and tell him knock knock jokes until he killed himself IRL.

Falco needs these rules to really succeed, so... meh.

(Larry is obviously very skilled though, I'm just spouting off hyperbole to make a point for all you literalists out there)

M2k planks like a beast, because he lacks the ability to not get grabbed by meep.

More like because it's because it's the best way to not get grabbed. M2K can win, he just chooses the best and safest option. To do otherwise puts you in second place. That's like ICs saying "I just use CGs because I lack the ability to get KOs vs MK otherwise". Doesn't make any sense.

 

[da K.I.D.]

More like because it's because it's the best way to not get grabbed. M2K can win, he just chooses the best and safest option. To do otherwise puts you in second place. That's like ICs saying "I just use CGs because I lack the ability to get KOs vs MK otherwise". Doesn't make any sense.

for the record, ICs landing a KO move on metaknight with out grabbiing is fairly difficult

 

[Overswarm]

for the record, ICs landing a KO move on metaknight with out grabbiing is fairly difficult

Yes, I am aware. That's why they grab. There's nothing that says they shouldn't, just like there isn't anything that says MK shouldn't grab the ledge or use shuttle loop. To limit yourself is dumb.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Brawl isn't actually a bad game like most players think it is. Or at least, it wasn't always. Players like you made it bad. Tournament attendance is half of what it could be and competitive Brawl is a joke to every other community, and even to ITSELF. Wouldn't it be awesome if Brawl were a fun game to watch? We would have a MUCH better chance of making it to MLG, Melee players would stop hating us as much, and attendance would rise. But no, we can't have that, because then we would be scrubs and apparently that is worse than being the greediest mother******s on the planet.

1) If this is half the attendance/tournaments of what it could be then that would be insane numbers. Over 1,300 tournaments a year? Holy ****.

2) Every other fighting game community is half as organized/under half our size. SFIV is the closest thing they have to Smashs popularity, every other game though isn't even close to the same playing field.

3) Who cares what Melee players want to see. MLG use to run Rainbow 6 Vegas (campiest shooter in existence), runs WoW that only people who play WoW would understand, and has Madden now (watching a football video game as entertainment instead of watching the real thing?). You do not know the reasons MLG picks up games.
A games audience = percentage of total game sales.
Brawl sales are just under 9 million.
Melees sales are just over 7 million
SFIV's just under 3 million when both 360 and PS3 sales are combined (pathetic).

In other words your are limited by how much commercial appeal your game has. Brawl has boatloads. SFIV? Not so much. Melee use to, but now its considered old. Oh well, Brawl will be considered old one day to.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

Sounds to me like the falco should have HIT him with the lasers.

Anyway, I actually mention scenarios like this and support the way the MK was playing! I mentioned someone spamming projectiles and you simply dodging them and taking minimal damage. Shiz works! Falco is a bad character.

Do you really think it was feasible for the Falco to hit with the lasers? You even say yourself that dodging them works. So either the player just should never have used Falco (Falco: tournament inviable now?) or should have done something differently. Though for that matter, even if picking Falco was a horrible decision in league with picking Ganondorf or Captain Falcon, he still needed to do something since he was in the game and stuck with Falco for the time being. Approaching in an attempt to regain the lead seems like the clear best strategy to me for the Falco player.

I don't have any objection to how the Meta Knight played. I'm a firm believer in doing what works, and what he was doing worked. My objection is to how the Falco played because it didn't work, and it seems intuitively obvious to me that when something doesn't work continuing to do it because you academically believe it to be "best" is a very poor idea.

 

[phi1ny3]

You know what?

I watched How to Irritate People with John Cleese.

You can learn a few things from that guy rofl.

 

[kackamee]

I can't wait until the metagame "evolves" into people just camping each other until it get to the point where the timer has to be extended.

 

[Overswarm]

Do you really think it was feasible for the Falco to hit with the lasers? You even say yourself that dodging them works. So either the player just should never have used Falco (Falco: tournament inviable now?) or should have done something differently. Though for that matter, even if picking Falco was a horrible decision in league with picking Ganondorf or Captain Falcon, he still needed to do something since he was in the game and stuck with Falco for the time being. Approaching in an attempt to regain the lead seems like the clear best strategy to me for the Falco player.

I don't have any objection to how the Meta Knight played. I'm a firm believer in doing what works, and what he was doing worked. My objection is to how the Falco played because it didn't work, and it seems intuitively obvious to me that when something doesn't work continuing to do it because you academically believe it to be "best" is a very poor idea.

I'd agree that the Falco needed to do something different, but I still think he should have just hit him with the lasers. Now, if there was a huge gap in %, yeah, he's gotta do something. But if it's small? Start aiming lasers and doing weird stuff to try to hit him instead of hoping he messes up.

But yes, Falco is not tournament viable in the long run unless stage lists are drastically shortened, the starter list is made for him, and there are anti-planking rules. His basic flaws are too much, and his minimal success is due to the above three reasons. Take them away and he plummets.

 

[Turbo Ether]

I can't wait until the metagame "evolves" into people just camping each other until it get to the point where the timer has to be extended.

I agree. The metagame would look very different if people bothered to exploit the "gay" strategies to the fullest. That and the plethora of bans my region has in place, have greatly stifled the development of the metagame, imo.

 

[Overswarm]

I agree. The metagame would look very different if people bothered to exploit the "gay" strategies to the fullest. That and the plethora of bans my region has in place, have greatly stifled the development of the metagame, imo.

It most certainly has. Character diversity will be smallest in your area, as finding the "best" option will be easier there than elsewhere. There's less thought involved when you only have a dozen stages to think about and half of them play the same way.

 

[kackamee]

I'd agree that the Falco needed to do something different, but I still think he should have just hit him with the lasers. Now, if there was a huge gap in %, yeah, he's gotta do something. But if it's small? Start aiming lasers and doing weird stuff to try to hit him instead of hoping he messes up.

But yes, Falco is not tournament viable in the long run unless stage lists are drastically shortened, the starter list is made for him, and there are anti-planking rules. His basic flaws are too much, and his minimal success is due to the above three reasons. Take them away and he plummets.

So more or less MK and Snake will be the only 2 viable characters when everyone starts playing like you say. The tier list will look like this:

Only viable character (God tier)

MK






Barley viable:
Snake

 

[Overswarm]

So more or less MK and Snake will be the only 2 viable characters when everyone starts playing like you say. The tier list will look like this:

Only viable character (God tier)

MK






Barley viable:
Snake

Kind of, yes.

Diddy is better than Snake though.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

"Oh, Ally. You wanted to stop by and say hi? Cool, cya @ whobo2".

 

[Crizthakidd]

this is def gonna move me from being a top 10 ranked player to more of the top 6 ish. thats what all the good *** players know. its really cool u know all this overswarm but cant put most of it to work

u gota take in the ally/m2k factor. knowing the game as much as they do, having that much ridiculous control over ur char pushes ur limits. u have to be naturally smart and good and be able to adapt, and even take some risks. everyone can benefit from this. epic freaking thing

 

[kackamee]

Kind of, yes.

Diddy is better than Snake though.

So 3 characters? Lol.

I really hope that's not what the communities gonna come to. No one will play the game. T.T

 

[Overswarm]

No idea what you just said Criz, but you're welcome I think?

So 3 characters? Lol.

I really hope that's not what the communities gonna come to. No one will play the game. T.T

You look at Melee any time recently?

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

So 3 characters? Lol.

I really hope that's not what the communities gonna come to. No one will play the game. T.T

I'm sure the ICs and Falco metagame will end up better than everyone else 'cept MK and Snake.

 

[kackamee]

You look at Melee any time recently?

O.o Nice cp. I guess if that's what the community wants, they can play just campy MK's all day. Takes all the fun out of the game IMO. But evidentally not everyone seems to think that way. If that's really what it comes to, I know I won't be playing the game.

I'm sure the ICs and Falco metagame will end up better than everyone else 'cept MK and Snake.

Neither IC's or Falco can do anything effective vs. a campy MK. Snake=depends on the stage.

 

[Deleted member]

Incorrect! Dumb people ban pictochat because the desperately want to change Brawl into something they prefer rather than something it is, and as such they are probably the most hilarious scrubs of all time. Banning pictochat because you're too lazy to learn where to stand is as dumb as banning PS2 because you can't comprehend "not jumping" during the air transformation.

The uber conservative mindset of IF IT AIN'T FLAT WITH PLATS I'M GONNA THROW A TANTRUM is a clear cut sign of someone with some sort of mental malfunction, especially if you hear them say the word "Melee". That means that they're not creative and can only play a game where everyone else has already shown them what to do. Brawl comes out and players like me invent things. We carve our own paths. Players that want pictochat banned? They want to copy what other people do, and anything that makes them think of even attempts to take the control out of their hands to make things harder is instantly hated. Most of the people that think in this fashion have stayed played Melee and only play ****ty characters in Brawl as some sort of defense for their reasoning. I'm not bad at Brawl, I just play a bad character! HAR HAR HAR

EH UMBREON?!

Distinguishing the game as "something they prefer rather than something it is" is not only subjective to every single individual that plays this game, it also implies that your mentality is the superior one between the two when there is no way to gauge them (since they're subjective). I suppose it's very admirable of you to defend poor stages that all other regions have banned and even higher end players in your region want banned, but you've lost sight of what a stage list is all about. The stage list is solely a medium of competitive play that the tournament players at any given tournament accept to be fair and balanced to add "validity" to the results. Adding stages that very, very few players are willing to play on removes that validity to some extent.

Even pictochat aside, we have to ban some stages. So where do we pass the threshold? All I have to do is be more conservative than you and I can label you condescending terms about your mental approach to the game? Get real.

Your entire second paragraph is a silly set of assumptions and I don't even think you believe them. You can do better than that.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Character bias will always ensure that there will be more than just the base "best" characters played

people still main link and pikachu in melee, dispite the fact that theres only really about 5 viable characters in the game.

Humans are imperfect, thus, it will never be as cookie cutter as it could be, but rest assured some characters are/will get phased out.

 

[Llumys]

Wow, I actually read the whole thing.

Thanks! :D

 

[kackamee]

I'm sure the ICs and Falco metagame will end up better than everyone else 'cept MK and Snake.

Character bias will always ensure that there will be more than just the base "best" characters played

people still main link and pikachu in melee, dispite the fact that theres only really about 5 viable characters in the game.

Humans are imperfect, thus, it will never be as cookie cutter as it could be, but rest assured some characters are/will get phased out.

That's why I play Ice Climbers. Mained them in Melee before I even thought of playing the game competitivley. I just liked them because they were cute =P. But I'm sure more people then not are going to eventually say "Hey...You know. _______ Isn't cutting it out for me....MK seems to be the best by a big margin because he can camp. I think I'll play him instead"

 

[Overswarm]

Distinguishing the game as "something they prefer rather than something it is" is not only subjective to every single individual that plays this game, it also implies that your mentality is the superior one between the two when there is no way to gauge them (since they're subjective). I suppose it's very admirable of you to defend poor stages that all other regions have banned and even higher end players in your region want banned, but you've lost sight of what a stage list is all about. The stage list is solely a medium of competitive play that the tournament players at any given tournament accept to be fair and balanced to add "validity" to the results. Adding stages that very, very few players are willing to play on removes that validity to some extent.

Negative.

If people just "didn't want to play on them", it'd never be an issue. It'd be "oh, that crazy stage? No one ever picks it" and would be a giant joke. No, other regions get pissed because people DO pick it. Why does it get taken away if it isn't unfair? The powers that be say "I don't like it", meaning it isn't good for their character / mentality.

Even pictochat aside, we have to ban some stages. So where do we pass the threshold? All I have to do is be more conservative than you and I can label you condescending terms about your mental approach to the game? Get real.

Your entire second paragraph is a silly set of assumptions and I don't even think you believe them. You can do better than that.

We ban stages after they show to be detrimental to tournament play. This doesn't mean someone learns to CP Pictochat and an idjit stands where the bullets can spawn and gets destroyed because of it, this means that someone picks a stage and has an absurd win rate for several tournaments with this stage.

OR

There being stages that give inconsistent victories. You can talk about inconsistincies and "randomness" in pictochat all you want, but if the win/loss ratio between two players is still mostly the same you don't really have an argument.

Otherwise? Leave it aloneeeeeeee

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

O.o Nice cp. I guess if that's what the community wants, they can play just campy MK's all day. Takes all the fun out of the game IMO. But evidentally not everyone seems to think that way. If that's really what it comes to, I know I won't be playing the game.


Neither IC's or Falco can do anything effective vs. a campy MK. Snake=depends on the stage.

I remember dis one match M2K lost to ICs and DEHF beat Dojo even though he was plankin'.

...In the end neither MKs played the matchup right.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Negative.

If people just "didn't want to play on them", it'd never be an issue. It'd be "oh, that crazy stage? No one ever picks it" and would be a giant joke. No, other regions get pissed because people DO pick it. Why does it get taken away if it isn't unfair? The powers that be say "I don't like it", meaning it isn't good for their character / mentality.



We ban stages after they show to be detrimental to tournament play. This doesn't mean someone learns to CP Pictochat and an idjit stands where the bullets can spawn and gets destroyed because of it, this means that someone picks a stage and has an absurd win rate for several tournaments with this stage.

OR

There being stages that give inconsistent victories. You can talk about inconsistincies and "randomness" in pictochat all you want, but if the win/loss ratio between two players is still mostly the same you don't really have an argument.

Otherwise? Leave it aloneeeeeeee

I don't think the problem with pitochat is the bullet. I think the walls may have something to do with that stage being banned but I'm not really too sure. Because they're hazards on halberd (bomb and lazer) you don't see that stage banned.

 

[kackamee]

I remember dis one match M2K lost to ICs and DEHF beat Dojo even though he was plankin'.

...In the end neither MKs played the matchup right.

............And then they started to plank and win. I dunno about the DEHF vs. Dojo thing, it could just be that DEHF is an immensley more skilled player. As only n000000bbbbsssss plank.

 

[Overswarm]

I don't think the problem with pitochat is the bullet. I think the walls may have something to do with that stage being banned but I'm not really too sure. Because they're hazards on halberd (bomb and lazer) you don't see that stage banned.

The stage ISN'T banned. Not by anyone smart. The people that ban it literally banned it because they don't understand it.

Seriously.

They can't just say "hey, maybe I shouldn't spawn where all this **** can come out and hurt me" and can't accept the fact that for 10 seconds spikes can be on the walls.

 

[solecalibur]

I don't think the problem with pitochat is the bullet. I think the walls may have something to do with that stage being banned but I'm not really too sure. Because they're hazards on halberd (bomb and lazer) you don't see that stage banned.

its the "randomness" that bothers people as well as the bottom of the stage you cant see yourself recover and maybe lacking spacing to recover to just the edge of the stage

 

[kackamee]

I don't think the problem with pitochat is the bullet. I think the walls may have something to do with that stage being banned but I'm not really too sure. Because they're hazards on halberd (bomb and lazer) you don't see that stage banned.

Actually I'm pretty sure thy are. The hazards on halberd are VERY predictable and VERY easy to dodge.

The ones on Pictochat are less predictable and are alot bigger and easy to get hit by.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

The stage ISN'T banned. Not by anyone smart. The people that ban it literally banned it because they don't understand it.

Seriously.

They can't just say "hey, maybe I shouldn't spawn where all this **** can come out and hurt me" and can't accept the fact that for 10 seconds spikes can be on the walls.

NJ bans pitochat I think that's pretty smart on their part.

its the "randomness" that bothers people as well as the bottom of the stage you cant see yourself recover and maybe lacking spacing to recover to just the edge of the stage

That is true I never thought of that.

Actually I'm pretty sure thy are. The hazards on halberd are VERY predictable and VERY easy to dodge.

The ones on Pictochat are less predictable and are alot bigger and easy to get hit by.

That big *** bullet that barely moves? And the Cart? LoL I don't buy the hazards on pito being the reason why the stage is banned.

 

[Overswarm]

NJ bans pitochat I think that's pretty smart on their part.

Yeah, I've had discussion with NJ players. They are confused by moving parts.

 

[Deleted member]

Negative.

If people just "didn't want to play on them", it'd never be an issue. It'd be "oh, that crazy stage? No one ever picks it" and would be a giant joke. No, other regions get pissed because people DO pick it. Why does it get taken away if it isn't unfair? The powers that be say "I don't like it", meaning it isn't good for their character / mentality.



We ban stages after they show to be detrimental to tournament play. This doesn't mean someone learns to CP Pictochat and an idjit stands where the bullets can spawn and gets destroyed because of it, this means that someone picks a stage and has an absurd win rate for several tournaments with this stage.

OR

There being stages that give inconsistent victories. You can talk about inconsistincies and "randomness" in pictochat all you want, but if the win/loss ratio between two players is still mostly the same you don't really have an argument.

Otherwise? Leave it aloneeeeeeee

We tried many of the stages early into the game over here. No one played them. It's more detrimental to tournament attendance than to tournament play, but it's the same basic idea so we killed it. See Norfair @ cot4.

There isn't a single stage in the game that yields inconsistent victories.

 

[kackamee]

That big *** bullet that barely moves? And the Cart? LoL I don't buy the hazards on pito being the reason why the stage is banned.

but it's definatley big enough to get hit with. alot more so then the bomb on Halberd. Or the lazer which can be DI'd out of for about less then 4%

 

[Overswarm]

We tried many of the stages early into the game over here. No one played them. It's more detrimental to tournament attendance than to tournament play, but it's the same basic idea so we killed it. See Norfair @ cot4.

There isn't a single stage in the game that yields inconsistent victories.

Sounds like you've got a bunch of whiners!

If you're admitting to banning stages for reasons other than balance and you are okay with this, you are lost.

The solution isn't to try to mold Brawl, it's to play a different game.

 

[kackamee]

Sounds like you've got a bunch of whiners!

If you're admitting to banning stages for reasons other than balance and you are okay with this, you are lost.

The solution isn't to try to mold Brawl, it's to play a different game.

I don't want to play a game where theres only campy MK's. Make your own.

 

[Overswarm]

I don't want to play a game where theres only campy MK's. Make your own.

I tried to ban him, no one listened! Deal with it, yo.