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Finally this thread is up........


The point of this thread is to create growth in the olimar community by having a diffrent person write about a match-up they feel confident in and explaining it from there point of view. How long, creative, accurate you are didn't really matter. What matterd is that you did SOMETHING and contributed to this project. Thank you everyone who contributed to this project.

How To Play The Peach Matchup by Draconoa
​

Peach solidly beats Olimar. She clearly outprioritizes and out speeds our moves, and the fact that she can easily avoid approaching on the ground means that we have to take her aerials head on. Olimar has a really difficult time keeping up with Peach at times, but it's still possible as long as you play correctly. It's extremely important to play quickly in efficiently in this matchup, as the windows for punishing are very small, yet you must exploit them to win.

Moveset Analysis​

Fair
Peach's fair is actually not too good a move in the Olimar matchup, contrary to initial perceptions. It's slow, and slightly telegraphed making it very easy to counter. Here's a problem though that most Olis will probably come across. Peach's fair is incredibly safe on shield, especially against Olimar due to his slow grab. If Peach fairs your shield, she's guaranteed a smooth transition to jabbing your shield or just jabbing you if you decide to drop your shield. She can cross this up with a grab, if she's expecting you to hold up the shield in anticipation for the jab.

Here are your best options in regard to fair on your shield:
-If Peach is going to jab after fair, an usmash OoS can punish her with the correct spacing or a yellow. Fair OoS can also work well. Grabbing her after she jabs isn't guaranteed since she can just jab again to beat grab.
-If Peach is going to grab after fair, the best way to beat it is to grab as soon as the fair hits your shield. Rolling away is ok, but if you do it too slowly Peach will just follow you with float.
*Spotdodging after fair hits your shield often doesn't work. If she jabs, she can do jab1, cancel it, and just grab you after the stopdodge. If you spotdodge a grab, her jab can catch you when you leave the animation.
-One of Peach's best options after fair on shield, is to do jab1 and then cancel into grab. In this case, refer to the options to handle the grab. Unfortunately, the amount of time that can exist between jab1 and jab2 is very long, and it's easy for Peach to seem like she's going to grab, but just go back to jab2.

In general, the fair on shield is a very advantageous position for Peach. She can even fair and just retreat to just not bother with it. It's very important to avoid this situation. The best way to accomplish this is to stop shielding her fair, and start beating it.

While Peach's fair is a very useful tool for attacking our shield, just beating it flatout with our fair is quite easy. The hitbox for her fair comes out on frame 16, ours on frame 7. It takes less than half the time. When Peach fairs, just quickly sh fair. And space it so you make sure our fair hits and not Peach's. This of course requires either prediction or very good reaction speed.

tldr; Don't shield Peach's fair, just fair her.

Dair
Dair is another great shield pressuring move for Peach. It may seem unpunishable, but punishing it is actually not too difficult. The difference between a shorthopped dair and floating dair are very large in terms of what Peach can follow up with and how Olimar punishes.

Floating Dair:
-When Peach hits your shield with a floating dair, there are two major ways to punish this. If she attempts to do another dair, usmash OoS can hit her before her second dair begins. Another good option is to drop the float and nair. To beat this, just grab Peach after the nair falls.

Shorthopped dair:
-A shorthopped dair will end while Peach is in the air, or she'll autocancel it. It's actually a really good option, but for Peach to use it effectively she needs to be close to Olimar on the ground anyway, and that should never happen, as our ground game prevents that. Much like the fair, she can follow up with either grab or jab, and it's a situation in which you want to avoid shielding. Just stay mobile enough to avoid her from sh dairing your shield.

You can hit Peach while she's dairing, but this only works of you hit Peach where her hitbox isn't active. This is basically her head, and the upper chest area. Attacking her hips or legs doesn't work and you will not beat it that way. Yellow usmash can reach through the legs and hit Peach in the chest, but only yellow and maybe red.

*DIing Dair is a very useful skill to have. It's mostly useful for not getting easily comboed by Peach. DI up and away.

Nair
Nair and bair are Peach's best aerials in the Olimar matchup. Nair allows Peach to land safely on top of Olimar. It also edgeguards very well, and can be used to punish spotdodges effectively with the ground float. Because of its speed and priority, Peach can use it in multiple situations where it's safe and very pressuring for Olimar.

Here are the situations in which Olimar actually can punish it. Nair on shield is very shieldgrabable, and Peach will only get away with nair on shield if she's blitzing you with jabs and groundfloat aerials. A floating nair is very effective on Olimar if he's falling into it, but very punishable in most other situations. Depending on the height, usmash can punish a floating nair. It's also possible to hit Peach out of nair with fair if you hit her after her initial hitbox frames, where the attack is strongest.

Nair a useful tool for Peach when she's edgeguarding or attempting to land safely within close range of Olimar. In MOST other cases, Olimar can handle it.

Bair
Bair is an incredibly difficult aerial for Olimar to punish. It outprioritizes all our moves, and is at the same time very fast. It's the compromise between her nair, and fair, which makes it very deadly. Near the edge it'll kill Olimar pretty well. The other area in which bair shines is camping. Peach can make a decent effort at camping Olimar. I'll cover that later though.

Jab
This move really makes it difficult to confront Peach within close range, if almost impossible. It hits on frame 2. None of our moves can compete with that, apart from our jab, frame 4, but it's easily countered.

If Peach is in range to jab, she'll probably do it. Jabbing is incredibly safe for Peach since she has so many different followups on Jab1:
-straight to jab2
-cancel it into grab
-pause for a couple frames, and then jab2

Jab1 to grab can be DIed out of, but only if you were in the air and near the jab's maximum range when she jabbed you. Guaranteed grab is a very deadly option, since it can easily put us offstage, where Peach can really **** Oli. Just going straight into jab 2 can put us in the same position, or at least create a lot of space between Peach and Oli and allow her to safely pluck a turnip. Pausing a little before jab2 is only useful for when Peach wants it to appear that she's going to grab.

Fsmash
In general, Peach's fsmash isn't really common to see since she spends most of the time in the air, but it's very key in certain points of the matchup. Fsmash ruins Oli if she catches it with us while we're in the air. On the ground it's shieldgrabable, but in the air fsmash outprioritizes our aerials and can outrange them as well.

Fsmash is most used when Peach is edgeguarding on stage. Peach will throw many turnips into the air, and charage an fsmash. Attempting to cross this path onto stage will usually lead to death. If you get hit by the turnip, you're pushed back onto the ledge or caught in vulnerable hitlag. Trying to whistle, Zcatch, outprioritize, or airdodge the turnip leaves you vulnerable to fsmash. It's best to just wait out the turnip rain until Peach is forced to pluck more, or she releases the charge on fsmash. As obvious as this may seem, this sometimes escapes Olimars as they try to rush back onstage.

Turnips
Turnips are used for three basic things, edgeguarding like mentioned right above, comboing, camping, and approaching. Edgeguarding is already covered, turnips used for comboing are not really important (if Peach starts a combo with a turnip in hand it's often inescapble damage but miniscule) , and the camping aspect of Peach's game is more dependent on the bair than turnips.

Peach approaches with turnips almost solely through glide tossing. Glide tossing is easy to beat by grabbing or fsmashing. The only time glide tossed turnips are a threat to Oli is when he's in the air. Peach can catch Oli offguard in the air with a glidetossed turnip, and that glide toss can easily lead to a grab, fsmash, or jab. Be wary of that.

Being Edguarded

Edgeguarding is basically how Peach kills in this matchup, and she does it very well in this regard.

There's first the component of on stage edgeguarding, mentioned above under the fsmash section:

Fsmash is most used when Peach is edgeguarding on stage. Peach will throw many turnips into the air, and charage an fsmash. Attempting to cross this path onto stage will usually lead to death. If you get hit by the turnip, you're pushed back onto the ledge or caught in vulnerable hitlag. Trying to whistle, Zcatch, outprioritize, or airdodge the turnip leaves you vulnerable to fsmash. It's best to just wait out the turnip rain until Peach is forced to pluck more, or she releases the charge on fsmash. As obvious as this may seem, this sometimes escapes Olimars as they try to rush back onstage.

Click to expand...

There's a slight variation to this where fsmash is replaced with usmash. Just stick to not airdodging or whistling and just waiting it out.

Offstage edgeguarding is also very dangerous. Peach's aerials don't pose much problem. Fair, Bair, Nair, and Uair are all single hits so whistling them isn't too complicated in that regard. Careful timing is required with nair though, and if you whistle uair Peach can nair you after your lag. It's better to actually get hit by the uair since it'll send you up and won't kill you until ridiculous percents.

Turnips are really a problem. Above the stage line I suggest simply fairing turnips since you can outprioritize them that way. Whistling turnips often lead to a trap where you'll get hit by one of Peach's aerials. Below the stage line, turnips are absolutely deadly. Whistling, airdodging, or outprioritizng them either leaves you too low to recover or gives Peach enough time to edgehog. The best way to survive against turnips below stage level is to just avoid the area in general or jump over them (You can actually footstool turnips, but that requires some funky spacing).

Handling Peach's Three Basic Approaches

1. 
   Ground; this is very easy to handle. Purple toss followed by grab handles her very well. It's important though if you just want to grab or fsmash you do it at the right distance. You want it to be slightly inside fsmash/grab range. If you attempt to use fsmash/grab at max range, there's enough time for Peach to simple sh float and dair you to punish your lag. In fact, be VERY CAREFUL using fsmash/grab on a grounded Peach when she's in a neutral or dashing position.
2. Short hops; For Peach to use short hops effectively she either has to be very close since her jump doesn't get that far (and this you should be able to handle since it practically counts as a ground approach), or she must use a double jump to position herself correctly. Peach moves very effectively through short hops, and it's advised to simple pivot grab her.
3. Floats; Punishing floats is very important, and without knowledge on how to do it Peach can approach you very easily. There are three main float heights; high, middle, and low.
   
   Low float is usually a ground float or a float a little higher. Fsmash and grab handle this float very well, as does ftilt. At this height Peach will probably fair/bair or nair. So it's key to not shield, and fair doesn't tend to work as well.​
   Middle float is the most common height for floating. To knock her out of float a yellow fsmash/yellow usmash(depends on her height) or fair. This is also when you want to grab Peach when she lands. Stay on her and don't let her out of your grasp at this height. If she starts to retreat as her float runs out, stick with her. Optimal spacing would just at the max range of grab/fsmash. This way it's easy to grab her when she lands, but also easy to maintain security of she suddenly floats toward you.​
   The last float is high float. This way very high, noticeably above the battlefield middle platforms height. Uair and tether(shorhopped of course!!) are the best counters. You want to maintain a more diagonal kind of spacing. If she's right above you, she can fastfall an aerial and that is not an easy option to beat.​

General Tips and Goals Against Peach:
*A lot of these you probably may have inferred from the discussion above. They do correlate with each other after all.

-Shielding is not good in this matchup. A lot of Peach's moves that land on shield are both unpunishable and may lead to a guaranteed grab. There still are a couple moves that can be punished with shielding, and these moves should be shielded. shieldable moves: fsmash, dsmash, usmash, ftilt, nair(sometimes).
-Most of this matchup is simple punishing Peach for whatever she's doing. The windows for these punishes are very small though, so it's important to keep up and stay active.
-Going hand in hand with the tip above, you must stay very safe. Peach can easily punish Oli for doing something stupid, and that often ends in quite a lengthy percent gain or gimp. The name of the game is to play very safe, and then when you see an opening exploit it to its fullest. That's how you play the game in general, but especially the Peach matchup.
-Stay calm. When Peach is comboing you from Timbuktu to home, just wait for the opening out of the combo, whether it be through whistling, airdodging, using an aerial, etc. This also applies to being edgeguarded.
-There are general zones and positions to be aware about. When Peach is in the air and Oli on the ground, she has a very advantageous position. When both characters are in the air (assuming that one isn't way above the other like being juggled or something) it's actually an equal situation. Our aerials can contend with Peach's if given the proper spacing and timing (and it's not near to impossible either). When Oli is in the air and Peach on the ground, Peach easily has the advantage, since her smashes are now very safe. When both characters are on the ground, it's heavily in Oli's favor, unless it's within jab range; in that case it's Peach's heavy advantage.[/QUOTE]












By Hilt

Lucario​

Basic Nature of the Matchup - Lucario's a character you're going to definitely need some experience before it even starts to look towards Olimar's favor. It's not the hardest matchup, but it's a little more difficult than most that are in Olimar's favor. The matchup is going to revolve around Olimar keeping Lucario at midrange, while Lucario's trying to figure out some way to get inside Olimar's bubble and **** him up.

Aura - Just because Lucario's at kill percents doesn't mean you should go for the kill. And you shouldn't try to rush and kill him as fast as possible so that he doesn't get too strong. Just be patient. The kill will come to you, that's just the kind of character Lucario is. If you go looking for the kill, you're going to be hit much harder than you should have been, and will often cost you stocks you shouldn't have lost. Keep a solid camping/spacing game going and make him work for every single thing he wants. Whether it be a kill, or even getting in on you. Make him work for everything and give him hell every time he ****s up and leaves himself open.

Section One - Keeping Him Out​

Our Camping Game - Olimar completely outcamps Lucario. No question. The trick is to not short hop (or full hop) pikmin toss unless you're throwing a purple from long-mid range or a white from long range. So basically, throw pikmin from the ground unless you absolutely have to throw them from the air to hit him and there's no way he can punish it. However, this part of the battle doesn't really matter much, as 80% of the battle is going to be fought at midrange if you're doing it right.

Mid Range - Reason you'll want to camp Lucario while grounded is that you'll need your ground options to keep him from going from midrange to close range. The number one goal in this matchup is to do whatever necessary to keep the Lucario out of your bubble. Because once he gets in, it's really difficult to get him out. Think Falco. But I'll cover what Lucario can do up close in a later section. Right now I'll go over what tools you'll need to use to keep the opponent at bay.

Tools:

Pikmin Toss: Purple Pikmin - Incredible. We all know how amazing purple pikmin are. The main job purples will serve in this matchup is creating an opening for you to approach for a followup, which will be, oftentimes, difficult to find in this matchup against a good lucario. Lucarios have a hard time dealing with purple pikmin, as they spend a good majority of their time out of shield (as shielding makes it difficult to approach Olimar, obviously, and almost all of Lucario's approach options are aerial) and Lucairo doesn't have many useful attacks that also serve as an answer to tossed purple pikmin. Landing a grab, after a purple pikmin hits, is extremely easy.

Pikmin Toss: White Pikmin - Actually, white pikmin are much better in this matchup than most other matchups. Like I said in the above section, Lucario has a difficult time keeping pikmin from landing on him, whether they be solid or latching pikmin. Lucario can't approach with a shield safely, so he oftentimes leaves himself vulnerable to a white latch.

Pikmin Toss: Red/Yellow/Blue Pikmin - Don't spam pikmin too much against Lucario, it'll leave him openings to cross the midrange border into closerange. Between pikmin you'll want to fit in one of the below tools I'm going to list (or a purple pikmin toss). Pikmin Toss (Red/Yellow/Blue) will mainly only serve the purpose of causing the opponent to run into one of your other tools.

Forward Smash - Don't be afraid to spam it. Easily the best tool at keeping Lucario out. Fit one of these between every few pikmin tosses just to punish him for thinking he can approach you. Because he can't approach you. Forward Smash creates a barrier that Lucario has to think twice about trying to cross, and results in annoying the Lucario into either trying to camp you or approaching in ways he shouldn't approach in, leaving him open.


Short Hop Fair - Olimar's and Lucario's fair both have the same startup time, so most likely if you've thrown out a fair, it's too late for him to try to beat it out with one of his (which would be his best option for countering yours). Lucario's Nair comes out one frame faster, but doesn't have the disjointedness he needs to outdo Olimar's fair unless he predicts it long before. Lucario can, if he's positioned right, dair, or use his double jump and dair, to try to beat out your fair, but it's not as reliable. But regardless, fair works as an amazing mixup and a counter to a good majority of Lucario's approaches. It's also deceiving at how punishable it is. One trick I use in many matchups (but much more against Lucario) is to throw out a forward air, land without hitting the opponent, and then either forward smash, grab/pivot grab, or even approach with up smash or nair if I feel the Lucario won't see it coming (much more risky than the first two options, though). Most opponents will think the forward air is punishable and will only end up running into a forward smash. It also frustrates the opponent because they feel like you have a wall up that they just can't get across, and their approach will get sloppy. And against Lucario, him coming at you with a sloppy approach, could end up giving you the set. Red, Blue, and Purples are the best for forward air. The extra range from yellows doesn't make enough of a difference in this matchup. But I'll go more into that in a different section.

Grab - Obvious. More of a punishing tool in this matchup than anything. You're not going to want to space with grabs, but instead use it to punish his landings. Lucario is going to do mostly aerial approaches, so grab won't work as well countering his approaches. But he has to land.

Section Two - ****, Now What?​

Close Range - You ****ed up. But it happens. Everyone's gotta mess up sometime. Lucario has many, many more options up close than he does at mid range, and our close range options just don't cut it most of the time. There's two positions we could be in against a Lucario.

Situation 1 - Olimar on the Ground, Lucario in the air - Lucario just got in our bubble and this is your best chance to get him out. Right now he doesn't have access to most of his tools and is only going to be wanting to create an opening to get himself on the ground. In this position you have two options. Hit him or run. The first one all comes down to predicting whether or not he's going to try to hit you on his way down, or land safely and go from there. Basically, you want to do what he's not. If the Lucario falls on top of you with a dair, fair, or nair, sit in your shield. Don't try to beat out anything Lucario has at close range, it's not going to work. If he comes down on you with a dair, and hits your shield, you have enough time to do whatever you want afterwards in his lag. Up Smash, Down Smash, Forward Smash, Grab, whatever. Nair and Forward Air are usually another story. With fair, the Lucario's able to afterwards throw out another aerial (usually down air, sometimes neutral air but not likely in this situation) before landing to counter an attempted punish. In this position, continue to sit in your shield, or try to get out, unless he hits you with a down air afterwards. If the Lucario drops with a Nair, either after a forward air, or at any time at all, get the hell out of there. He's already gotten too far for you to try to keep him out. Neutral Air has very little landing lag so he's able to cover it with his quick jabs or any of his close range options.

Situation 2 - Both players close up against each other. The Lucario managed to get his way in. If you've ever played a Snake or Falco, you'll know what this is like. It's not as bad, but you'll deal with it the same way. When you're up close against Lucario, your main objective is going to be waiting for him to throw out something laggy enough for you to, not punish, but run away during. Lucario has several upclose options that turn it into a guessing game for us.

Getting Out - When forced into the situation of being up close against a Lucario, you're basically stuck with two options. You can try to force him out, looking for lag in his attacks, for one. Many of Lucario's attacks have large amounts of ending lag, enough for you to fit a fair, dsmash, nair, etc, in. Shielding his barrage of attacks until you finally get your chance is definitely an option. The only problem with it is that you'll have to guess when he's going to go for a grab. Smart Lucarios, if you sit in a shield, will take advantage of the opportunity and use a grab to get us closer to the ledge. He definitely doesn't have the fastest grab in the game (nine frame startup) but it's enough to take advantage of a defensive Olimar. So if you plan to force him out, do it as soon as possible. The other option is... well, just get the **** out. Rolling is bad, but sometimes you really don't have a choice. Rolling isn't the only option, however. If you don't feel safe challenging the Lucario up close, run from him while covering your tracks midway with a pivot grab. If the Lucario tries to keep pressure on you with a grab, he'll run into yours. If he tries with a forward air, you'll have enough time to shield his approach.

Use Both! The best thing to do is to not rely one of the options too much! If you always try to force him out, the Lucario's going to catch on to your patterns and mix up his game close range. If you always run away, again, he's going to catch onto your patterns. Having both options available is going to make it extremely difficult for the Lucario to keep pressure on you and get us out of the tight spot.


Lucario's tools close range:

Grab - Lucario's best close range option against us. Lucario's throws allow him to bring him to his goal. Putting us at a ledge. Lucario getting us to the ledge is, by far, the most dangerous situation in the matchup. Not even getting us off, just getting us to it. And his throws work much better at bringing that situation than anything else he could possibly do.

Jab/Up Tilt - Lucario's quickest moves that he'll be able to get out right after landing. Lucario's going to try to use these to keep constant pressure on us after getting inside of our bubble. Jab is going to be used against Olimars that tend to sit in their shields more, and will be used as a way to keep Olimar from knowing when the Lucario is going to throw out a grab/force palm. If you notice the Lucario going for Jab -> Jab -> Force Palm on your shield, you have enough time roll behind him after the second jab and plenty of time to punish him afterwards.

Down Air - Short Hopped Down Air is definitely not his best option after he's already gotten inside of our area, but it's definitely something available to him. Dair will shut down Olimars that are less defensive and try to fit more attacks inbetween Lucario's holes. So if you try to force Lucario out, watch out for down airs. Just like I said previously, if you predict one and shield it, you have plenty of time to punish it with whatever you'd like. But again, it's not as effective of an option as others he has.

Forward/Down Tilt - Not as effective as Jab/Grab against Olimar as they are against other characters, simply because Lucario isn't going to be focusing on out spacing in this matchup, so you shouldn't have to worry about forward or down tilt too much.

Forward Air - Normally wouldn't be thought to be a good close range option. However, against Olimar this is definitely the case. When up close, Olimar has a difficult time dealing with fair, and a smart Lucario will take advantage of Olimar trying to punish him with Olimar's normally groundbased punishing tools (grab, dsmash, etc). Not detrimental, but something to look out for.

Section Three - Don't Let it Touch the Ground!​

Both characters are going to play the juggling game pretty different from each other in this matchup. For Olimar, you'll focus more on hitting Lucario while he's at about a full hop's height, and punishing his landings, most notably when he tries to land with an aerial. Lucario, on the other hand, is going to be focusing almost entirely on punishing Olimar as he lands, when he's most vulnerable.

Olimar's main option when juggling lucario is spacing up airs, as it's our only attacks (sans pikmin chain) that will beat out his dair (his best anti-juggle option). However, know that up air doesn't actually outprioritize dair, it only outranges it. It's not faster, either. So if the uair isn't spaced well, we won't beat out his dair. Also, be careful to not double jump before going for the uair. If by some chance Lucario does land a dair after you've used your second jump, the horizontal knockback will put us in a terrible situation, and can often cost the stock at higher percents.

Punishing Lucario's landings is also basic. Spacing grabs and forward smash in the general area that you know the Lucario is going to land makes landing extremely difficult for him. However you want to be careful because missing the punish will often mean that the lucario is now in close range against you, which is right where he wants to be. If he tries to drop down with a dair, again, shielding it leaves you plenty of room to punish.

Lucario juggling Olimar is a little bit different. Instead, he's going to be focusing mostly on hitting us as we land, while he can't do TOO much when both are in the air. Forward Air, Up Air, etc, do beat out a good majority of our attacks, just don't be afraid of whistling through them. Trying to airdodge your way through instead is usually not a better option, as it leaves him more time to throw out another attack and keep close range pressure on us even while we're in the air. However, once the Lucario realizes that you're just able to whistle through all of his aerial options, he'll realize what he really needs to do.

Lucario punishing our landings is a pain. He has three main options that you're going to have to get use to the timing for. Grab is basically his move to either attempt to reset the juggle, or get us to the ledge where he can go for the kill. It's his answer to whistle and his best punishing option overall against Olimar. Forward Smash works well dealing with our landings as well. It's able to be whistled but difficult. If you mess up and only whistle the last part of the attack, Lucario has time to run in and punish us afterwards, or at least keep pressure going. Aura Sphere isn't as big of a problem, but may be difficult to see coming at times, or predict when to whistle/airdodge. The attack moves slow so don't try to air dodge it.

Section Four - Edge Guarding​

This is where Lucario gets his kills against us. He doesn't focus so much on himself traveling off stage, chasing us for kills, but moreso keep pressure on us while we're on the ledge, or trying to get back. Zoning with Aura Sphere limits the areas we're able to travel, oftentimes making our recovery predictable. One thing done often by Lucarios, is to stand just far enough from the ledge so that his forward smash covers exactly the distance from him to the edge of the stage. This allows him to completely outrange Olimar, without him being put at the danger he normally would be at during the lag of the fsmash, as Olimar has to get off of the ledge and get to him before the lag ends. Also, when landing while recoverying, be sure to go for the ledge most of the time. Lucario has too many options to deal with a landing Olimar. And considering that, when recovering, it's obvious exactly where the Olimar is going to land it'll be extremely difficult to make the landing unpredictable. If Lucario lands a grab on a recovering Olimar fast enough, Olimar will not get his jumps back after being thrown, and will basically die.

One simple trick I use when getting off of the ledge is to drop from the ledge and immediately jump and whistle his fsmash. If the first part of the fsmash is whistled and/or you're fast enough, nair -> usmash is guaranteed within his lag. Be careful, if the Lucario sees what you're doing or your timing's off, he has plenty of time to shield the nair and grab you afterwards.

However you don't always have to follow up something after a whistle. Jumping from the ledge with a whistle, and merely focusing on getting past the opponent works as well. You take some damage in the process, but you preserve the stock and get out of a dangerous position.

Lucario's off stage options are definitely something you need to look out for. Fair is his best tool for edge guarding off stage. It doesn't have lag, leads into nair (which will be the death of us at stupid percents if we've used our jump), can combo into itself at lower percents, steals our jump, and beats out our aerial options in almost all situations. Neutral air isn't as big of a deal unless it's pretty much guaranteed. Throwing it out after a forward air isn't uncommon, but it's inferior to fair otherwise (other than its better horizontal knockback). Lucario can land stupid early kills on us with gimps, just keeping pressure on us off stage. Down Air works as a way of keeping a barrier that's difficult to pass, however it's not as dangerous as a forward smash would be, or an Aura Sphere.

Just because Lucario doesn't have a damaging recovery move (and it's slow) doesn't mean it's the easiest to chase off stage. Landing a surprise spike is definitely possible, but can be extremely dangerous. Lucario just having out a forward air trumps most of our off stage edge guards. Our best options against at edge guarding Lucario is to toss off forward smashes or purple pikmin. If you hit him with a forward smash after his second jump, he'll be forced to immediately use extreme speed and THEN be vulnerable for a spike. Or, you can grab on to the ledge and force him to recover to the stage, which will leave him vulnerable for a forward air.

Section Five - Finishing the Job​

Most of Lucario's kill options I've already listed. He's going to get all of his kills on Olimar by either punishing a landing, gimps, or taking advantage of us being off stage to land a forward smash/Aura Sphere. For Olimar, you're going to get a good majority of your kills from up and down smashes. Landing an usmash is oftentimes difficult, and Lucarios will often get accustomed to you not going for it very often. So when you do go for it, you'll get a fresh usmash kill pretty early. Lucario being a floaty character dies off the top easily. Dsmash works well because it puts him at a position to get gimped, if it doesn't kill him. Up throw is your best kill throw for this matchup. And again, a lot of Lucario's attacks have noticeable amounts of lag that you can punish. Practice power shielding forward smashes and Aura Spheres and landing kills on Lucario becomes much easier.

Section Six - Pikmin Colors​

Red - Actually a pretty good pikmin for the matchup. Not the best, but better than they usually are. Landing quick fair hits with them will rack up damage incredibly fast. You won't be going for a lot of Blue Throw kill against Lucario, so reds aren't too lacking in this matchup.

Yellow - Probably the matchup that Yellow Pikmin do the most poorly in. Simply put, almost any time you would land an attack with a yellow pikmin, you would land the attack with a red/blue/purple as well. You're not going to be trying to out-disjoint lucario, you're going to be focusing on throwing out the hitbox before he throws out his. So all in all, in this matchup, the only difference between yellows and the others are less damage. :'(

Blues - Amazing for this matchup. Blues do everything here. Since they're not being overshadowed by Yellow's superior range, blue's damage in aerials, smashes, and throws are amazing. Not to mention, the possibility to land an up throw (forward and back throw aren't as good in this matchup). The only things blues blues lack are the superior pikmin toss qualities that purples or whites have.

White - Actually are pretty effective in this matchup. Read the section on Mid Range play and how whites are more difficult for Lucario to deal with than most other characters. Other than that, though, they don't have too much of a purpose, of course.

Purple- The best for the matchup, closely followed by blues. Purples aren't shielded as easily at mid range by lucario. Purple up smash kills lucario at around 70% (or earlier, I'm not sure) on normal stages. All of purple's aerials are just as good as the red/blue counterpart, and purple down smash is amazing.

Section Seven - Stages​

For the neutral, you're going to want to definitely strike Yoshi's Island. Battlefield would normally be the next best option for strike, although I personally dislike FD against Lucario.

Final Destination - The lack of platforms makes it difficult to land against him. Since Olimar juggles the traditional way, the platforms actually help. However, Lucario focuses on punishing Olimar as he lands, and FD makes this much easier. So I oftentimes strike it against Lucario.

Frigate Orpheon - This is my ban against Lucario, and needs to be yours too. Lucario gets a massive advantage from being able to force us to the right side, and us recovering on that side pretty much hands him the kill. The second phase isn't much better and the boost of yellow pikmin (which results in a decrease in reds and blues) may actually hurt us in this matchup.

Rainbow Cruise - Laugh at them when they take you here. Seriously. This is a terrible stage as a Lucario counterpick, especially against Olimar where we can spend the entire game finding new ways to keep him out of our personal space.

Jungle Japes - Not as good as Rainbow Cruise, but still in our favor. A popular stage among Lucarios (every single Lucario I've played has taken me here at least once). The high ceiling and close side blast zones help him a lot, especially in this matchup, although the lack of us dying when put against a ledge completely puts the matchup in our favor. Just be patient and wait until 160%+ before you go for an up smash kill.

Halberd - Our main counterpick in this matchup. The platform works well for our landings and the low ceiling gives us kills at rediculous percents. The size of the stage works wonders for us as well in a matchup were we want to stay as far away from the ledges as possible.

Summary​

The majority of the game is going to be Olimar trying to keep Lucario at midrange and Lucario attempting to cross the borderline. Olimar has several tools to keep Lucario out, as compared to Lucario not having many effective tools at getting in. On the flipside, if Lucario does get in, he has effective tools to both keep pressure on Olimar or put him in a dangerous position (either off stage or in the air), while Olimar oftentimes struggles to get him out. Lucario doesn't have many strong counterpicks against Olimar, pretty much only frigate, which is a breath of fresh air. You're going to want to focus on using blues and purples as much as possible. Reds are good too and whites are good for their one times uses, but yellows are inferior in this matchup. All in all the matchup is definitely in Olimar's favor. On a chart of 1 to 5, one being the easiest, five being the hardest, I'd rate it as a 2









D3 Match Up by Brian H




Since I haven’t played many D3’s lately I’m going by memory on the match up. I’ve never lost to a d3 in a set. So I feel pretty confident in this match up.
Most D3’s will treat oli like any other opponent ( grabbing/tech chasing Olimar) with the occasional Ftilt spacing. Olimar can out grab D3 so abuse it. There’s no need to dash in this MU because it only shortens your grab range. If d3 is staying grounded just walk and power shield any of D3’s tilts mainly Ftilt. If you power shield the tilt you get a free grab which can set up your set ups. After you rack up your damage with your grabbing, try camping the d3 as much as you can so you don’t degenerate smashes. If D3 inhales he will inhale your Fsmashes hit box if you’re somewhat in range lol like a 3rd of the stage away. Uair cancels out D3’s dair. it’s a weird clash but you’ll figure it out ;p
Stages
I can’t really think of a bad stage to face D3 ATM but Platform stages can **** D3 also big stages as well such as Final D, BF,Ps1( especially if you can lure d3 under the windmill. Its like Luigi’s mansion ;] go smash crazy. Up smash up smash Down smash. or just pick a stage you feel very comfortable with. Frigate could be good too. D3’s don’t like purples n yellows. Actually not many opponents do lol.
Combos on D3.
You can set up a 40 damage combo on d3 easily. Grab/dthrow up smash, up smash, Full hop uair into Up b depending on your line up of course. Mainly if you have yellows this should land like every time. Other annoying tactics that work on D3 is basically staying grounded. Pikmin toss the D3 and if he rushes in grab. Doesn’t matter if he powersheilds or not, he’s going to get grabbed. You can also mix up with fsmash so abuse it you guys!!!!!
If D3 takes adavantage of the stage and gets you off stage. Most likely expect bairs to gimp you. Just time your whistles wisely and you should be able to get back to the stage if you whistle the hit. After that just maintain the center of the stage again and try to get D3 on the edge to limit their options.
Hopefully this helps all you oli mains :D let me know how this works.
-Brian H












Falco: by Richbrown



There’s 1 highly important thing us Olimar mains must know against Falco: our Utilt clashes with his sideB most of the time. The other times, he just passes right through us. Our nair does too, although that’s a little less plausible.

Now why is this so important? Well, when Falco gets hit out of his sideB and lands without using an aerial, he gets landing lag. This means that when the Utilt clashes, he lands right next to us, and basically can’t do anything for a while. This leads we get land pretty much whatever move we want during that small window of opportunity. So just be smart about it. If he’s at any percent other than KO percent, just grab him, or if he’s near the ledge maybe take a shot at a Dsmash to see if you can hit him far enough offstage. And, of course, if he is at KO percent, land that usmash.

Another trick I have against the illusion is sometimes I’ll face my back towards Falco when he is about to recover onto the stage, or when I think he is gonna use sideB. Then, when he uses sideB, I can immediately shieldgrab him. I’ve gotten a lot of KOs by having a blue in front, immediately grabbing, then throwing. The Falco player will usually DI weird since he is probably either still holding left/right from the illusion, or trying to sidestep.

Olimar’s Fsmash goes through illusion if timed right, so be sure to utilize that when you get them off stage. Just be smart about predicting sideB. Sometimes if you’re at the right spacing and you think Falco is gonna sideB, dash back and charge Usmash. You can really **** him up if you accurately predict it.

In regards to the chaingrab, I’ve found that it’s basically pointless to try to fight Falco on the ground when you’re at KO percent. It’s too risky, and if Falco perfectly lands the spike, there’s no way Olimar can recover. You can sometimes get lucky if the spike doesn’t sweetspot, but other than that don’t bother fighting it (for those who don’t know: sometimes you can immediately meteor cancel Falco’s spike, but if he lands it a certain way there’s this unholy amount of hitstun on it). And even if he CG-spikes you on the stage, there’s a number of follow-ups he has that can really mess you up. Also, don’t try to jump out of Falco’s CG, unless the Falco you are playing is a noob. The good Falcos will grab you out of your second jump, making it virtually impossible for you to recover.These days I usually just jump to the platform and throw out dairs, maybe pivot grab sometimes too. I make Falco earn that 40%.

If you’re on FD, just stay somewhat close to the ledge during that first 40%, but give yourself a little room to retreat, and throw out a lot of Fsmashes to keep away from the grab. Tip for the spike in case you do get grabbed: double smash both the C-stick and the control stick into the stage. A lot of the time this will allow you to either land on the stage, or tech off the stage.

Olimar cannot shieldgrab a good Falco. It is literally impossible to shieldgrab a Falco if he jabs immediately after nair or dair (maybe bair, I’m not sure actually). This means you have to go into this matchup with the goal of not even letting Falco hit your shield. This means a lot of pivot grabs and Fsmashes to punish those landings, instead of waiting in your shield for a shieldgrab. If Falco starts jabbing you, don’t fight it, just DI away. Don’t try to grab or attack the moment you get out either, he can just double jab some more and keep ****ing you up. Just clear out altogether. Every now and then you can get lucky by grabbing between the second jab and the spinning jab, but don’t try it too much.

Falco can jump out of a regrab at 0%, but occasionally you can catch them off guard by dash grabbing after the first Dthrow. Lately I’ve been playing around with Dthrow-fair-dtilt-dtilt-dtilt-whatever from there). Get creative with your 0% Dthrow combos, get creative.

Speaking of which, if you manage to grab a Falco at 0% on the ledge, you can sometimes Dthrow-spike them. They can DI out, but if you’re quick enough they probably won’t (I mean really, who is gonna DI away from the stage when they are at the ledge at 0%?).

Something that makes this matchup a little weird is that Falco actually outcamps us. So ya gotta find this particular range where he’s not quite far enough to laser camp you, but not close enough to mess you up with his jabs. Speaking of lasers, just learn to powershield them, maybe throw a pikmin or 2 in front of you. The noob Falcos will laser camp you, then sideB away once you get close, so be ready to predict with utilt.

A well placed Uair will beat out his dair, but sometimes it goes through, so just be careful.

Falco’s kill moves are VERY transparent. His smashes are all punishable. When you are recovering, they will usually jump once to line up a bair/bait an airdodge, then double jump and try to bair you. Just have your whistle ready. Watch for getting reflected offstage, Falcos like to do that sometimes which can really screw up olimar, especially if he’s been hit out of his second jump. Olimar can easily live to 160% against Falco. I’ve lived as long as 230% before.

This matchup is pretty much one of the most annoying in the game, because basically what happens is nothing will go on for a really long time, but then all of the sudden, one character has done about 60% to the other. Just have some patience, and take whatever he gives you. Remember not to fight any of his combos, don’t airdodge into him or anything stupid like that after getting thrown. Just DI out and away, and reset your position.










Toon link by Zori


Ah, my personal favorite match up. The Toon link match up, it's a very straight forward match up. I dare to say the only match up we have where we can go on auto pilot and suceed. If you follow a few basic rules this match up becomes tangable.


*overview*


I will walk you though the basic's on the MU. As soon as the match start get on the ground and start tossing. NEVER approch at 0% because (as we all know) tl can downsmash and gimp us very easily. Your not totally safe till about 25% so just keep chucking but this is a good thing because pikmin > tl projectiles. And that brings me to the reason why this MU is not a disadvantage. Our pikmim subconcently beats out there projectiles, we don't even need to be accurate just jump and side-b and the job will get done. If a pikmin hits a bomb then it explodes in there face, if a pikmin hits a boomarang then it cancles it out and they suffer lag and if they shoot arrows then SOMETHING is bound to hit it before it even touches you also you can just shield they are pretty perdictable. So after the Tl relizes that his projectiles won't be as effective in this MU he will pull out that mighty sword. This is where the MU gets even. His sword is quick and if he does not have a bomb in hand he can cut up pikmin into little sushi rolls. His bair and nair cover up almost all of his body so he can get them off with ease. It also has a good amount of priority so it gives him a few valid approches.


Now that's over with,instead of doing a normal writeup im going to do something new........ im going to give the pro and cons of EVERY move he has, what it can do, and what we can do about it. Lets see how this goes :]


Nair

What it can do....

Bottom line it's quick lol it can get pikmin off very quickly and can be used safely on our shield. It can also trip us if it hits the top of our head at low %'s. Be warry that the nair is mainly for poking at out shield be prepared for what comes after the nair. Don't try to challenge it, shield and react accordingly.


What we can do about it....

If spaced correctly there is little we can do about this move
but shield. You can run past him if you see him setting up a nair and upsmash him from underneath.




Bair

What it can do....

Another quick move in his arsenal, this would be his ideal way of getting off pikmin because it hits the latched ones and fights off the oncoming pikmin. It has almost infinate combo potantial at any percent so be on guard for that. Don't worry about getting hit with 2-3 bairs at low % its just tl's was of getting easy damage and it also prevents us from getting downsmash gimped. Bair can be used for offence and defence.



What we can do about it....

Once again, another move safe on our shield, they can only use it two times before they have to land so watch there movements. We don't have any moves that safely beat it so let them have there fun and **** them when they land :]



Dair


What it can do....

Dair is not much of a threat in this mu, if we are at low% they can bair to dair but otherwise you can see it coming and you can grab it with ease


What we can do about it....

Shield.Grab




Uair


What it can do....

This move last a loooooooooooooooooong time, don't try to airdodge this move just wistle it or jump compleatly out the way. If the toon link is fishing for a kill he will have no problem pulling out this move esp. on a platform.



What we can do about it....

If your under a platform then hold your ground and shield because once this long *** attack is over he suffers a lot of lag so you can get back stage control.



Upsmash

What it can do....

Upsmash is there primary kill move it has alot of priority and comes out pretty fast and if they hit our shield they can spot dodge before we can shield grab so don't challenge this move. It can also be used to juggle and pressure us on the ledge.



What we can do about it....

If they upsmash our shield, don't shield grab instead forward smash to beat out there spotdodge. They might also try usinf uptilt out of spot dodge.Otherwise you will be able to see this move coming.


Downsmash

What it can do....

Oh god. What can't this move do. Like I stated before DO NOT approch him at 0% this move can f us up in so many ways. Even at high percents it can kill.


What we can do about it....

Spam. Spam and more Spam.



Forwardsmash


What it can do....

ForwardSmash is a pretty good mindgame they can delay the second hit for a while so holding your shield though the whole move is the best idea.


What we can do about it....

We can shield and grab it afterwards. This move is not much of a threat if you play it safe.




Uptilt


What it can do....

If they are behind us its a very safe move, they will most likely keep using it as it chips at our shield. It can also be used for many follow ups.



What we can do about it....

We can try to not let them get that close but using more fsmash but if they happen to get close just take the hit and di away.


Forwardtilt


What it can do....

Ummmm this is a bad move...... you can grab it and its very slow


What we can do about it....

Laught at it.


Downtilt

What we can do about it....


This is one move I don't see a lot of tl's use, it can gimp us very well if it hits the top of our head when we are off stage.


What we can do about it....

Recovery lower.


Dash Attack

What it can do....


Another good underused good move, it can also gimp us lol and it's compleatly unperdictable


What we can do about it....

Recover lower.




Up-B


What it can do....

On the ground it can do a decent amount of damage but thankfully we can smash DI out of it. In the air tl's might try to read our DI and kill us off the top with it. It's very hard to pull off but don't underestimate it.


What we can do about it........

Smash DI on the ground, airdodge in the air.


Jab


What it can do....

This move is not very safe vs olimar but that dosen't make it useless. Most tl's will jab and use all three hits they do this because the last hit has some delay so by instinc we will try to shield grab and they will get the last hit in.



What we can do about it....


We can shield all the way and try to not let them get that close.



Projectiles


What it can do....

They can do everything, the combonations I have seen with projetiles are endless. They combo into each other and when a tl has a full comprehention of how to mix projectiles with his sword you never want to get hit. I'm not going to go into great detail on this because it would be near impossible but an example would be a tlthrowing an boomarange behind you and running up and chargeing a upsmash. Sound dumb but it's not because our first reaction it "im going to shield and when he releases the smash and ill grab him" You sheild for 3 second and your shield is half its size and then the boomarange he threw earlyer hits you in the back of the head while you receive a fully chaged upsmash. Stuff like that you have to watch out for. Watch there patterens and you will be ok.



What we can do about it........


Play it smart, depending on how and when the projectile is used, you need to react accoringly. Shielding is always the best option.















DK by dabuz


basics:

general tactics olimar should employ:

side b and run away-this will be your most used tactic and DK is possibly one of the worst characters at stopping this, he is large, and all his moves to get off pikmin are pretty laggy, his best being bair which is one of DK's staple damage racking moves, this for the most part can be safely short hopped at any range until you are close enough to get hit by DK's ftilt

abuse his laggy moves-most of DK's moves are either laggy or predictable or both, on the ground his smash are all laggy and trying to bait them and then shield are your best best...spotdodging against them is very very unreliable IMO (especially if any pikmin are latched to DK) and rolling when he is on the ground ruins your chance to punish, also pivot grabbing is a relatively safe punish

LURE OUT THE PUNCH- when he has a charged side-b either try to grab him during the startup when he uses or it just get ready to shield it, it has super armor so don't try to beat it out, spotdodge is also reliable if you have a good followup ready

out range the down tilt-TBH, DK's down tilt is pretty annoying, you can't shieldgrab his dtilt, can't spotdodge it, rolling behind him only works if he doesnt' react fast or predict, even though rolling away is generally unpunishable if you start during his dtilt, i think the only real way to punish it is side b aimed for his head or i THINK fsmash can clash, including fsmash out-of-shield



ok, now that that is covered, next step, how to rack up the damage and kill quickly:

using the strategies listed in the below section you should at some point have DK in the air, either because you got him there with a grab or smash, or because he jumped because he wants to bair or charge punch you

if you got him in the air: this is the time to get purely aggressive and take advantage of his size and lack of safe ways to get grounded, DK has a lot of trouble landing, even on platforms, there are 3 different places he can land

the stage at the same level as you: pivot grabbing his landing from his front side is by far you best option, all he can possible have is DK punch which has enough startup time to react, when he is about an inch from the ground is when you should start the pivot grab, if done right DK will get grabbed so just throw him above you, you can also fsmash his landing, particulary useful if he is landing with his back facing you and you expect a bair, time it when he is about an inch above the ground so your fsmash hits him near the end of the move before his bair can reach you, this should also send him at about a weak 40 degree angle, if you manage to get right below him a little before he lands use either an upsmash (charge or uncharged depending on when you think he will airdodge, side note: air dodge is DK's only option when he is directly above you, because dair and nair both suck against oli) you can also upair/nair to get him back above you for repeating set up, dsmash can be a slighty risky way to kill him relatively early if you can predict and punish his landing, or you can just pivot grab and throw back up

DK trying to land on a platform: just upair/ nair, you can get to the platform just as he does EVEN IF he shields the upair by a few seconds you can do another upair to shield stab him and send him back up if the initial upair didn't hit him in time, if he gets to the platform by airdodging through your upair just nair, either he couldn't react fast enough and you bring him back up while having platform control or he shields it but can't punish without amazing prediction on his part

landing on the edge: to be frank, if DK is attempting to land on the edge the only things you can do are up-b him before he gets too low, fsmash if he gets to close to the edge without using his up-b, side b with purple if he is far away or go for the very risky up-b edgehog from well below the edge, his up-b beats every move we have in the air and ground if both characters are at the same height

DK using shorthop bairs: this is very very common for DK to do, run under him little and doing a shorthop side b or an upsmash and if done right it will always hit him out of it and above you, if corned, running off the edge and upairing isn't bad either to punish his landing lag, pivot grab can also punish it if you start it up just before he touches the ground after/ during the bair

kill time: if you haven't got a kill yet and he is about 150% or more, save your backthrows and upthrows for both blue and purple (wrong DI from a throw, even if not the best throw, ex: blue for upthrow will kill him normally at 160%+), shorthop fairs instead of shorthop side-B is also a relatively good kill move if not used much, and if he is coming down from the air, mixed sue of grab, fair, dsmash, and upsmash can all kill him with decent predictions

DK gets olimar in the air: somehow DK got close enoguh to olimar to get him in the air or olimar mistimed a jump, well, now, landing for olimar is surprisingly simple compared to DK, keep in mind olimar's small size, super armor, nair and dair when landing, DK can keep up with you in the air , landing on a platform directly above DK is normally safe because you can shield whatever he throws out you once you get on the platform with ease,

landing on the edge is relatively easy as well, DK only has bair and charge punish to reliably hit you (fair is a situational joke against olimar), so just predict and fastfall, up-b, whistle, or jump again, but never try to beat out those moves unless you are close and confident,

landing on the ground is easy as well, just try to get him below you can confuse him with what way you are gonna land, DK can only cover 2 sides at once with dsmash, which can be whistled on reaction, or up-B which, due to it's lag will let you get grounded even if hit, so just mix up nair->smash combos, fair's/bair, dair, whistle bouncing to land next to/ on him so you can safely get on the ground, as long as you aren't predictable with landing you can fsmash him before he can do anything if he attacked the wrong side


other notes i forgot to include: shield tilted up can take an entire grounded up-b which can beat out all our other moves except for well spaced pivot grabs

short hop pivot charge punish is hard to react to if not expected, and damaging, so always be weary for that,

save upsmash/ throws for kills, DK can kill oli at about 90% if lucky, we kill him at about 130-150%

DK's grab is bad but good enough to punish olimar's that are right next to him


















So thats the thead, this is everyone who contibuted. This is a a prime example of what you put in is what you get out. I was not expecting you to write a essay i just wanted about two paragraphs on what you think. Look as dabuz's mk overview it's was the shortest one yet but also one of the most important. Time should of not been an issue, everyone had two weeks in a half to write something small. If you litiraly wrote one sentence a day you could of came up with a decent write up. So olimars, we are the only ones holding us back.

Reserved.


I left every essay in its rawest form, maybe is people give me theres ill add it.



That's its folks, im going to play pokemon now.

And were good reads, though I play those matchups a little differently x.x
Olimar mains are weird

Anyways, while I don't have enough of a "big picture" view of matchups, what I CAN do is proof read. I'm a writer, so, I kinda cringed at some of these xD

*goes back to work*

new entry by dabuz added

I'm so happy this came up.

People need to finish their matchups. Dabuz's MK post should be added.

Snake, Diddy, Marth, and Icies still aren't written. I think Rich is doing Diddy and Logic Icies, but is anyone doing Snake or Marth?

Hilt, this needs to be stickied.

this is very good. Great idea and great write ups! I liked the peach one a lot. Good job Drac.

I hope later on we'll get all chars done. Isnt DANGR the marth killer? If he didnt quit then he should do that write up. Ill probably try to do a write up on ike in the future since on one has done anything on it. I feel there's more to the mu then meets the eye.

good job with this thread, I love the idea of this and i hope to see alot more ppl contribute to it, sadly Im terrible at making summaries for match-ups i just play and dont pay attention lol

BOB SAGET! said:

this is very good. Great idea and great write ups! I liked the peach one a lot. Good job Drac.

I hope later on we'll get all chars done. Isnt DANGR the marth killer? If he didnt quit then he should do that write up. Ill probably try to do a write up on ike in the future since on one has done anything on it. I feel there's more to the mu then meets the eye.

Click to expand...

I haven't quit yet. Consider me on vacation. I still lurk fairly often, and I'll try to correct any factually erroneus statements I see when it's warranted or necessary.

That said, I feel pretty dang comfortable about the Oli-Marth matchup; I don't feel as if I likely have the best/most experience or knowledge though- I still gotta play the South's best Marths in tournament first to prove myself and confirm my suspicions. There aren't any Mikehazes or Neos down here, remember.

I think the matchup is potentially only a slight advantage for Marth, given you guys get used to doing some... things...

I shoulda spent way more time on mine if I woulda known everyone was taking more then 20 mins on this lol.

Can we write about a character that's already been done? There are some more things/some different things that I think need to be said about Peach.

Yeah that's the second part of this project, I haven't talked about it yet but criting is defiantly next

I agree that it's important that we all contribute to a certain writeup. Use the first one as a base and build off it. This is especially important since different regions play differently and no player can write the perfect analysis.

But before really startig on that, we should finish the important matchups we haven't done. Of the top tiers that remain:
MK: Dabuz's post I feel can serve as a starting point.
Snake: No one has claimed this one.
Diddy: Rich still needs to write this one.
Falco: I feel like Rich did a wonderful job. Even if they are a little more important details that need to be added, he certainly put the meat of the matchup there.
IC: Logic asked for it but he hasn't contacted us in a while. He knows the matchup reeeeaaaallllyyy well though so I can't wait for it.
Marth: An important matchup that needs to be covered. I'm sure Dan knows it well enough to write a good base.
Wario: Warios aren't common, but it's an important matchup that's difficult to play. No one has claime it.
DDD: BrianH's info is a bit lacking. Probably not from a lack of knowledge but just merely not devoting much time to it.
Pikachu: I really doubt that Olimars have difficulty with this matchup, but it's still important and no one has taken it.
Oli ditto: Wer got this one but he still hasn't posted it.
Lucario: Hilt I'd an amazing writeup. I feel like I know the matchup now even though I've almost never played it. XD
Middle tier matchups were well done, but I thnk Luigi is pretty important.

So yeah, someone get some matchups.

u guys think ike is important? lol I could do a write up on ike.

I'm pretty decent on the Marth matchup (at least I want to believe so). When I get a little bit of free time I'll do a write up on the match up.

amazing! cant wait til more MUs start coming in. but everyone did a great job! cant wait to finish reading all of them :>

Zori, May u please make it obvious where each write up starts?

Its cool what u did with Peach, but Its just harder to find when the DK & Falco write ups start

Tin Man said:

Zori, May u please make it obvious where each write up starts?

Its cool what u did with Peach, but Its just harder to find when the DK & Falco write ups start

Click to expand...

your wish is my command check the OP :]

dabuz said:

when i have time i can definitely do a much better writeup of DDD (lots of arrogance xD) he is probably my most most comfortable tourney common matchup

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ok lol, do more plz!

Nice pictures.

And no one did those star ratings you were talking about earlier.

Super helpful. I have played a number of these MUs since this and have done noticeably better.

Thank you all for the MUs!

Good job with this thread!

thebrute7 said:

Super helpful. I have played a number of these MUs since this and have done noticeably better.

Thank you all for the MUs!

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yes!!! :') i can die happy now

Someone should do Weegee. I'll contribute some...someday. I'll probably be playing Brawl alot over the summer.

Btw Zori, I heard Flapjack's gonna be playable in the next SSB game

I'm really waiting on the MK/Marth/Weegee MU's, but this is really good.

SkyPirateCoud said:

I imagine that would go something like:
Did he do something?

-Yes: Was it a grab or jab?

-Yes: Pivot grab​

-No: Shield grab​

-No: Throw pikmin at him until he does.
XP

That said, thank you to everyone that contributed. This looks quite promising.
I'll help once I get a little more offline experience under my belt.

Click to expand...

When San comes to TX you can test that theory for us, right?

Turazrok said:

I'm really waiting on the MK/Marth/Weegee MU's, but this is really good.

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i gave zori a pm about that.

hmm i should update stuff @_@ im too lazy right now, i cant put down pokemon........

More people have written more analyses?

Btw, the Peach boards took our idea. It's important to complete ours before theirs.

^ I bet you guys will, considering that none of us (besides the person who stole it ) have contributed anything yet.

^^^ aka lazy people

Dabuz said he quits.

so I had no internet. boredom. drew this.



inb4paintjohns
inb4coolstorybro

haha! dope!

olimar and the poor little red pikmin lookin a little starved thoe :b