The Kokiri Konqueror

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 15, 2005

Here is my current work-in-progress: http://thebuzzsaw.googlepages.com/tkk.htm

Essence_of_the_Gods · Nov 15, 2005

nice, looking forward to the rest of the guide

just one thing, you are using the swordplant a bit much; but if it works for you then no problem

8000 · Nov 15, 2005

Looks great so far just keep in mind you have to make it easy to read or no one will want to.

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 16, 2005

There were some vids in this post. They are old and crappy. Never view them again.

ScaryMunky · Nov 16, 2005

Haven't read it yet, but glad to see a guide for Young Link. I recently replaced Luigi for Y.Link as my main cause I was having trouble against my brother's Marth. Using Y.Link today, I 3-stocked him.. so I think I may have something going here. Hope to make a lot of improvements from this and your vids.

Steel Kangaroo · Nov 16, 2005

Great guide so far! Keep up the awesome work. I don't know if you are planning to or not, but you might want to add a character matchups section where you describe strategies for beating all the characters. If you start making one and you are unsure of a matchup, PM me and I might be able to help you out.

I disagree with your statement about Young Link being played offensivley. I think in most situations, Young Link is best played defensiveley, using projectiles to frustrate the opponent while hitting with the occasional nair or fair until they get to about 150%, then moving in for the kill, trying to get a nair chain or dsmash to edgeguard to kill them.

Keep up the great job!

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 16, 2005

Time will tell.

Steel Kangaroo said:
I disagree with your statement about Young Link being played offensivley. I think in most situations, Young Link is best played defensiveley, using projectiles to frustrate the opponent while hitting with the occasional nair or fair until they get to about 150%, then moving in for the kill, trying to get a nair chain or dsmash to edgeguard to kill them.

Everyone is entitled their own opinion, so let me just ask you: What is the point of playing Young Link if the point is not to be aggressive? I believe if you are going to play defensively, you might as well use big Link. He has more power and is comfortable receiving attacks instead of charging forward. Just my thoughts. If you watch my vids, you'll notice that I have sort of shift into offense/defense mode in waves. After I've charged forward and made every attack I can possibly squeeze out, I retreat and receive attacks and I prepare for my next attack. I do plan on making a character matchup guide. Notice the part near the top that says "still to come" or whatever...

Steel Kangaroo · Nov 16, 2005

Heh, I don't want to get into an argument, but I play Young Link more defensivly because he is faster as you mentioned, and also has stronger projectile than big Link. He can dance around an opponent, showering them with projectiles, do a fairly large amount of damage quickly, and then KO them. Part of the reason I play Young Link is for originality. I mean, not many people play the lil guy competitivly.

As for defensive vs offensive, I just play more defensivly. Granted, against certain characters you need to play a certain way. Against a Marth or Sheik you arent going to spam projectiles because they can swipe them away and come after you before you can react, but against a Jigglypuff, you don't want to attack her directly, because the WoP can out range or out prioritize anything you try to attack with. Maybe the fact that you play against Sheik fairly regularly has changed your fighting style a little bit? The same thing happend to me. My friends play Samus and Jiggly, who suck against projectile spammers, so I guess it made me play more defensivly.

Wife · Nov 16, 2005

People love to play the opinion card, but there are facts to competitive melee. You can play him offensivley because you think he's fast, that's fine. But don't try and say it's more effective, because it isn't.
Young Link is fast and has projectiles. He has what I call the "little ***** factor" This means that he is a "little ***** you can't touch" because he's small and slippery and he can run away effectively. Running away, being evasive, and spamming items is really the only way to go if you want to play to win.

And also, short hop to the ledge nair is a lot better than fair in most situations, because the fair is too easy to take advantage of.

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 16, 2005

No Credit

Steel Kangaroo, don't worry, no arguments here.

I like hearing your comments. You are correct in that playing against an extremely skilled Sheik-player for so long has made me quite aggressive. Young Link can be played defensively. I just feel that big Link is a better option for such a case.

8000 · Nov 16, 2005

Although i do not play Y. Link competitively i have played a few matches with him. I can safely say that offensive Y. Link seems to work better than devensive. Although both can be played to a level much easier and more practical than Link. The trajectory of Y. Link's boomerang is slanted so that it is practical for both offensive and defensive playing styles. His range suggests for a more up close approach but i'm not saying one way is more proper than the other. It is all preference of opinion and neither of them are 'wrong' styles of play. Some styles have more noticeable advantages and disadvantages than others but i do not want to go into analyzation right now.

Both styles (deffensive & offensive) can be played to a point where there is complete pwnage. It depends on the person, situation, opponent etc.

Many factors affect play styles and this is something you all should know.

I will close by saying i am not a Y. Link expert (as most of you know) but i have a vast knowledge of technical data for Link. The same would apply for Y. Link. The only difference is a slight increase in speed, jumping height, and weight - A decrease in range, power, weight, jump height etc. Basically the same principles apply to both characters.

Anyways, i would say Fair is more sussecptable to attack where as a Nair would hold higher priority and would make it easier to ensure a safer ledge comeback than a Fair. Although it depends entirely on the situation. If you catch your opponent off guard Fair is much better. As i say many times "it is situational, it is about skill, and whatever style you are comfortable with is the style you should use"

Mic_128 · Nov 16, 2005

*sticks* Good work.

Tope · Nov 17, 2005

Buzz said:
Well, the opinion card is far more effective than the fact card. The fact is you have nothing to backup your so-called facts. My statement is based off pure experience and tournaments. I'm not just a big-talker when it comes to Young Link. Please don't make statements to me as if they are indisputable facts. I just make my own personal recommendations and readers are free to state their own opinion.

ROFL at that.

Buzz you're good no doubt, but here's the ranking order, from what I've seen. Young link Meep > Wife > Buzz.

Besides your two 20 person tournaments, where no one shows up except random scrubs don't count for much kiddo. Wife competes with his Y. Link all the time, and unfortunately he does know what he's talking about.

~Tope

Wob Jebn · Nov 17, 2005

Tope you need to post some of meep's battle if he's so good so we can bash him because I don't think 1 person on the boards knows who he is and as far as I'm concerned he is a nobody. If you dont have any proof to back up that he is better then Wife and Buzz then don't even say his name.

meepxzero · Nov 17, 2005

Dont listen to tope my ylink sucks :cry:

money match plz? Anywho lets stop the trash talkin please. >> its been goin through the character specifics to vid discussions.

Wob Jebn · Nov 17, 2005

well I've been going from post to post with Tope trash talking our team so we are in the same boat. He saw our vid's of us playing each other but you need to realize that we play with each other a ton so we play our own mind games and we know what works and doesn't work against each other. And yes our tourney's are nothing compared to what they have in VA but so what, that doesn't mean our players are any worse.

There is more then 1 way to play a character whether offensive or defensive. And part of this depends on your opponent.

Sandman · Nov 17, 2005

Tope said:
ROFL at that.

Buzz you're good no doubt, but here's the ranking order, from what I've seen. Young link Meep > Wife > Buzz.

Besides your two 20 person tournaments, where no one shows up except random scrubs don't count for much kiddo. Wife competes with his Y. Link all the time, and unfortunately he does know what he's talking about.

~Tope

Did I miss something? I didn't see anybody claiming that they were better than anybody else. What I have seen are opinions on certain playing styles being debated. There's no need for hostility or trash talk. At all. People play differently than other people. And sometimes, some playing styles work better for different people. Did you know that?

TaruRDM27 · Nov 17, 2005

I definitely agree w/ Sandman, different ppl play diff. styles ^^ I personally am gonna vote on a control play style of Y.Link, since i alternate offense and defensive play styles hundreds of times in a match. not to mention i usually shield grab a lot since my friend plays shiek/fox/falco and is up close in my face a lot lol.

but w/e works for ppl, ive seen both styles used extremely effectively

Average Joe · Nov 17, 2005

Wow, I just read the guide Buzz. Great job, it will be real nice when you add the finishing touches. I think it even helped me out a little. I did not realizea a few things that you where doing in game when fighting you until now. Maybe I'll stand a better chance against you from now on. When I finish polishing my Samus and you visa versa with your Y. Link we should team it up in a tourney before the semester ends, that is if we host another tourney.

Wife · Nov 17, 2005

lol@ "i've been to tournaments" man I wish I went to tournaments...and traveled the country..and won several of them...and earned over a grand this year alone...maybe someday I'll learn this game.

There are facts, dingus. Think about this: think of any other competitve sport ever. THEY ALL DO THE SAME THINGS! All runners are tall and skinny, all swimmers shave their hair. There's no guy going "it's my opinion that leaving the hair on my anus will make me swim faster" Don't be a bridiot!!

But get that ylink ranking out of here. Caveman is clearly the best ylink, then chu, then azen, then I don't know about meep but also i have one, rickp has one, and zanguzen has one.

Sandman · Nov 17, 2005

Wife said:
There are facts, dingus. Think about this: think of any other competitve sport ever. THEY ALL DO THE SAME THINGS! All runners are tall and skinny, all swimmers shave their hair. There's no guy going "it's my opinion that leaving the hair on my anus will make me swim faster" Don't be a bridiot!!

Video gaming is a sport? Wait. What?

Also, name calling isn't necessary. I thought we learned that it's rude to do so back in elementary school?

Fenrir · Nov 17, 2005

Wife said:
There are facts, dingus. Think about this: think of any other competitve sport ever. THEY ALL DO THE SAME THINGS! All runners are tall and skinny, all swimmers shave their hair. There's no guy going "it's my opinion that leaving the hair on my anus will make me swim faster" Don't be a bridiot!!

What immediately comes to mind is the difference between my Fox and Jaren, the other Fox on our crew. Night and friggin' day, man. I'm all about lighter, swifter hits to take advantage of an opponent's lag and disrupt their attacks and build up their damage enough wheras Jaren will simply plow through most of what's thrown at him with Fox's higher damaging and prioritized moves, all the while he's anticipating right when he'll send that crazy upsmash your way. He's got the timing and spacing on that thing down to an art. Trust me, he'll probably not miss.

The funny thing is, they both work. I'll beat him, he'll beat me. Buzz loose to both of us or destroy either of us for different reasons. I've had too much personal experience of characters being used in very different ways to win for it not to be so.

AngeloBangelo · Nov 20, 2005

If you're arguing with Wife about tournament experience, you need to get dropkicked in the jaw. And that's the end of that chapter. *throws scarf over shoulder*

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 21, 2005

Updates!

Gate Everest · Nov 22, 2005

Yo again

Might not remember me. I'm the Boise/Meridian kid who talked to you about a tournament over here. Anyway, nice to see some Idaho activity.

Tournament progress is going slowly, but things should work out and a tournament should happen sometime in-between Thanksgiving and mid-December. Just, don't be too disappointed if it doesn't pan out.

On topic though! I'm picking up my Young Link again, who used to be my main. It should be interesting to see yours in action against mine (we seem to play rather different styles), and I -think- I remember hearing you really hate Ness. He's another of my mains, so another interesting fight.

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 26, 2005

Die Ness, die...

Gate Everest said:
On topic though! I'm picking up my Young Link again, who used to be my main. It should be interesting to see yours in action against mine (we seem to play rather different styles), and I -think- I remember hearing you really hate Ness. He's another of my mains, so another interesting fight.

Heh, I'm interested to play against your Young Link. I'm sort of off-and-on against Wob Jebn's tournament-winning Sheik, but against anyone else I am one devil of a Kokiri child. I love Young Link ditto-fights as rare as they are for me. And you heard correctly: I do hate Ness. If you view my melee record, he is my least-used character. In terms of fighting against him, it brings me great joy in taking him down. If you truly specialize with Ness, I greatly look forward to our duels.

Mr.C · Nov 27, 2005

Im Sry but plz, Wife is a very skilled smasher and know's what he is talking about. I suggest you Listen. If you plan on going into a tournement with skilled people. Caveman, Rob$, Ken, Isai so on so forth. And try to be an agressive YL, good clux not getting 4 stocked. Now im not saying YL cant be aggressive, both Link' s have the ability to, But YL runs and throw's **** thats his style, no jones.

TheBuzzSaw · Nov 27, 2005

Oh GIVE IT A REST, WILL YOU? I've already talked to Wife and we're squared away on all this. You're adding to the fire eight years after it has gone out.

ShAdOMaN · Nov 29, 2005

Wife said:
There are facts, dingus. Think about this: think of any other competitve sport ever. THEY ALL DO THE SAME THINGS! All runners are tall and skinny, all swimmers shave their hair. There's no guy going "it's my opinion that leaving the hair on my anus will make me swim faster" Don't be a bridiot!!

Thats stupid... we have 2nd cross country team in our state division 1 for running, 4 out of our top 5 are short and buff, not tall and skinny. my best friend is top swimmer at our school, he has lotsa hair, all you do is put on a cap... dont talk about things you dont know about.

Mr.C · Nov 29, 2005

Ur a *******, lol swimming teams make you shave your leg, chest and arm hair. no jones.

HDL · Nov 29, 2005

And butt hairs. Oooo.

HoChiMinhTrail · Nov 29, 2005

...... Z Warriors own this guide...

Tipo mastr · Nov 29, 2005

Buzz, this is a great guide! I certainly don't want to know what damage the downsmash does if you've used it five times already. I don't want to know how long it takes young link to use a home run bat. This guide is great because it's simple! It tells you what young link is capable of. Knowing the official names for each attack isn't gonna help you with you're tactics. See, Buzz'z Y. link guide just tells you what he can do, and the basic strategy to play him. The rest is up to you. It isn't a guide to strictly tell you that you have to play young link a certain way. He tells you the offensive side of the equation as well as the defensive side. If you feel more comfortable playing Y. link defensivly, go ahead. If you want to fight more aggressively, go ahead. It's your decision.

Buzz, thanks for teaching me the Y. link is just as powerful as ganondorf.

TheBuzzSaw · Dec 6, 2005

Thanx, Tipo mastr. At least you were able to see my guide's objective. I'm still working on formatting and putting in the finishing touches. When it's all done, it'll be really easy to use. Questions/comments are welcome. Please let me know what y'all think!

Wob Jebn · Dec 8, 2005

I'm liking the updated version of it. It was at first a bit clustered

KyUuKyUu · Dec 9, 2005

Good, I think you should mention that C-Stick with a bomb in your hand is also equivalent to [smash direction + A/Z]. I always C-Stick my bomb throws as both Links (when I play them, which isn't that often).

Firestorm88 · Dec 12, 2005

Change the font type to Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, or another non-serif font please =/

Rule #1 of Web Design: Non-Serif is better for body of text =P

Gimpyfish62 · Dec 12, 2005

nice guide buzz, hope to play ya soon

Average Joe · Dec 14, 2005

Its coming along great buzz...you should get rid of the team valley guard part though in you intro since it doesn't exist anymore. I am going to make my younger brother worship your guide.

domokato · Dec 15, 2005

Nice update, and I'm glad I could contribute.

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