Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[Blobulle]

>Cloud
woah woah woah, when did this become a thing?

Yes, apparently, Shuton goes even with him :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qaAmc5ZELo vs MKLeo (3 - 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RpaNoagqQU vs Tweek (2 - 3)

Personally, I feel like walling Cloud is possible as Olimar, yet Cloud has a stronger KO potential than him...

 

[MERPIS]

Yes, apparently, Shuton goes even with him :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qaAmc5ZELo vs MKLeo (3 - 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RpaNoagqQU vs Tweek (2 - 3)

Personally, I feel like walling Cloud is possible as Olimar, yet Cloud has a stronger KO potential than him...

Well you get Olimar in the air as Cloud and he cries, there's no way he's getting back down without some VEEEEEERY good airdodges. Cloud's aerials invalidate pretty much everything Olimar can do and nair or uair just destroys all of the pikmin Olimar might try to land on Cloud. I utterly hate this MU and all the pain it comes with for an Olimar player.

 

[Nu~]

MegaMan is a character who hasn't had much spotlight in the current metagame and because of this, many seem to think he's a lot worse than he really is. The issue with his results right now and how people perceive the character are partially because of Kameme, and partially because of a lack of opportunities to travel from all the notable MegaMan players.

Kameme's the main Mega people see at the larger tournaments so when he does something good or bad, or lacks in results, everyone's understanding of the character is viewed directly through him. Kameme's playstyle does a lot of things right but he still has an over reliance on the footstool OOS that brought him that 2nd Place at EVO so long ago for example. People are getting better at crossing him up and instead of relying on solid pellet spacing in certain situations, he runs around and shields with blade in his hand and allows people to pressure him when they shouldn't be.

He also doesn't fully utilize Mega's moveset like someone like Scatt does, I rarely see him edgeguard, use crash bomber, or use leaf-shield where Scatt gets a lot of mileage off it due to his better ledge trapping and offstage pressure. Especially vs Sonic, less pellets and no edge-guarding is hurting him. It was only until recently that Kameme finally switched up his gameplay vs KEN that he won the last 3 sets between them and hasn't lost since. He makes a lot of MUs harder for himself because of things like this.

In regards to falling off similarly to Villager, I'd say he hasn't. Bayonetta & Cloud were mentioned but a lot of notable MegaMan players actually don't think he loses to either (Scatt thinks Cloud even, Peabnut thinks Bayo/Cloud even, etc). It seems hard when you tunnel vision on his disadvantage state tho. Bayonetta he outneutrals and can outcamp. He's good at stuffing her approaches whether ground or aerial, dealing with "planking", has good ledge-traps, and optimization has been done to improve his punish game to keep up.

Cloud can hit thru pellets but the ways he has to do it makes him prone to getting anti-aired, has counterplay, and uair is super good to where Mega doesn't have to challenge the disjoint to do so. MU only gets harder when limit is in play but MegaMan's edgeguarding tools (which still have room for optimization & I don't see people pushing hard enough) are good at making Cloud burn limit on recovery or just putting him in bad situations overall along with other ways he can pressure Cloud to make it harder to charge or play around it once it's in play. Scatt said recently this is one of his favorite MUs, I think he believes Mega goes even atm.

If we look at his MU spread, having rough MUs with Sheik & Fox are definitely troublesome, but overall he doesn't really lose to that many characters due to the way he works. Especially not on the level of Villager anyways. Mega is a hard character to use optimally, but winning MUs over characters like Diddy, Sonic, Luigi, Peach, Heavies, MK, Ryu, Villager, etc will always keep him relevant. Scatt played at a local recently and looked solid. Peabnut had a great showing at Boot Camp. If both of them start traveling and Kameme with his newfound confidence in Mega figures out the holes in his play like he said he would on Twitter, I think MegaMan will be fine.

In addition to edgeguarding, I honestly think Mega Man mains just need to polish up their punish game/overall advantage state more for the character to shoot up again.

A lot of current Mega Man mains like Scatt have a bad habit of converting their neutral into more neutral when they could be going for so much more. Mega Man has soooo many options to trap his opponent wherever they are (god bless diagonal metal blade T_T) so getting put into disadvantage by this character should be hell.

 

[MERPIS]

In addition to edgeguarding, I honestly think Mega Man mains just need to polish up their punish game/overall advantage state more for the character to shoot up again.

A lot of current Mega Man mains like Scatt have a bad habit of converting their neutral into more neutral when they could be going for so much more. Mega Man has soooo many options to trap his opponent wherever they are (god bless diagonal metal blade T_T) so getting put into disadvantage by this character should be hell.

Who are MM's worst/disadvantageous matchups?

 

[Pyrover]

Well you get Olimar in the air as Cloud and he cries, there's no way he's getting back down without some VEEEEEERY good airdodges. Cloud's aerials invalidate pretty much everything Olimar can do and nair or uair just destroys all of the pikmin Olimar might try to land on Cloud. I utterly hate this MU and all the pain it comes with for an Olimar player.

It's tricky to play because well, Cloud, but Olimar has the tools to keep pace. Avoiding the air as much as possible is key. If you get juggled, suck it up and Up-B to ledge st the first opportunity, rather than eating damage on the way down.

Olimar's biggest strength is just how well he can control the ground. Most characters in Smash actually have really bad ground games, primarily consisting of unsafe combo starters and iffy spacing tools. Olimar has his really good grab, a safe poke/retreating option in F-Smash, and a safe poke/combo tool in down tilt. That is better than most of the cast, and Cloud not having any safe grounded pokes is something he can abuse. It takes practice but you can trap Cloud's landings with grabs and smashes to keep him from getting too close. Once you get Cloud offstage you make him pay by forcing and frametrapping air dodges with Purple Pikmin or by using down tilt to catch his Climbhazzard.

Not a particularly fun matchup, but entirely workable. So long as you don't get caught by his billion up airs you can actually challenge his neutral.

 

[MERPIS]

It's tricky to play because well, Cloud, but Olimar has the tools to keep pace. Avoiding the air as much as possible is key. If you get juggled, suck it up and Up-B to ledge st the first opportunity, rather than eating damage on the way down.

Olimar's biggest strength is just how well he can control the ground. Most characters in Smash actually have really bad ground games, primarily consisting of unsafe combo starters and iffy spacing tools. Olimar has his really good grab, a safe poke/retreating option in F-Smash, and a safe poke/combo tool in down tilt. That is better than most of the cast, and Cloud not having any safe grounded pokes is something he can abuse. It takes practice but you can trap Cloud's landings with grabs and smashes to keep him from getting too close. Once you get Cloud offstage you make him pay by forcing and frametrapping air dodges with Purple Pikmin or by using down tilt to catch his Climbhazzard.

Not a particularly fun matchup, but entirely workable. So long as you don't get caught by his billion up airs you can actually challenge his neutral.

huh, so that's why its even. Fair enough. But this raises another question, who has the definitive best ground game in all of smash 4?

 

[Skeeter Mania]

Who are MM's worst/disadvantageous matchups?

Commonly considered to be Sheik, Fox, Mario, and Pikachu (though Mario is probably the best of them).

 

[Nah]

usually when I think of "has a really good ground game", I think of like

tho that doesn't mean that there aren't others with good ground games, or that one of those 3 has the absolute best ground game in Smash 4, it's just the first few that came to mind

 

[ReVerbIsSuperb]

Who are MM's worst/disadvantageous matchups?

I'm not Nu~, but having multiple opinions won't hurt, so I'll share my current perspective backed up from watching, playing, and seeing what the other notable Mega's are thinking. Hopefully Nu~ can chime in if he has any insight. I already stated Sheik & Fox are bad MUs for him (both like -2 at least), but while difficult, it has been shown to be doable through Kameme's consistent prowess in Sheik and Peabnut among others do well against Fox players like Nakat. Both will still be a problem but I will say they still have room for optimization to where MegaMan will be able to keep up, especially if his punish game continues to improve. The rest, I all consider to be -1 at worst personally.

Mario is not nearly as fast as Sheik/Fox. Easier to keep out and play anti-grab, and Mega's disjointed aerials & tools can anti-air him or outrange as he tries to jump around the wall, although you have to be ready for it cause he has good airspeed. Ally has stated in the past he feels this MU is overrated in how badly Mario wins, especially after he has fought Smasher1001 multiple times. Not to mention Kameme beating Ally rather convincingly after he figured out what was holding him back on the last runback.

Pikachu is a tricky MU that you have to approach it a little differently but I think if a Mega recognizes the options for QA, they can play around him a bit easier overall. If the MegaMan is good at creating a bubble around himself as he moves around to deal with quick attack such as tools like Leaf Shield, Uairs to cover space and catch pika as he stretches his hurtbox (if he gets clipped his bad airspeed could mean trouble and will dissuade him trying to spam it), z-drop metal blades as a wall, nair, and disjointed bair/fair, he can handle himself quite well. Pikachu, in general, is reliant on that move in neutral because pellets > jolts and without QA, Pika is relatively fast but doesn't have much of any burst and his aerials can get outranged. The same issue applies with playing around Pikachu on the ground, he's decently quick but grab attempts can still get stuffed cause of kinda bad actual grab range. Scatt took Esam to Game 5 last time they fought, was a good visualization of the MU.

M2's speed, reflector, and shadow ball going through projectiles is a problem when combined on top of how hard M2 punishes any small mistakes in spacing. But on the flipside, M2's disadvantage and attributes allows Mega to ledge trap or kill M2 quite early too. Reflector can be baited out with good item play and M2 nair isn't free to beat pellets when we have our aerials to contest it. Smasher1001 & Peabnut from what I've seen are quite good at this MU and have fought WaDi and Abadango and put on a good showing.

Lucario, our gameplan fuels his neutral as he gains aura to kill us early and shoot aura sphere through our projectiles. But elsewhere we are quite good at juggling, playing around Lucario's grappler like nature, and edge-guarding him to where it's not as oppressive as you'd think. MegaMan can struggle to kill sometimes depending on the situation but he does have a lot of raw kill power in general when he can't land his setups like Metal Blade -> RAR Bair. I can see -1 but I doubt it'll be worse than that if so.

ZSS despite the current results at top level being in ZSS favor, I currently would consider even but I can see the arguments for -1. Proper pellet spacing are good at shutting down her short hop game and on the ground it'll beat paralyzer and make it harder to grab. We have good anti-airs in general and our low crouch in particular especially makes it really difficult for ZSS to land hits if we play it right. Scatt seems to be the best at this MU from what I've seen, ik he beat Luhtie in the past and has kept it close with the others.

Rosa is the last one that I consider having a possibility for being a losing MU for MegaMan. This MU is tricky, especially with how well she ledge traps, edge-guards and juggles MegaMan once she gets going. But metal blade going through luma and still hitting, leafshield wearing being able to hit luma and not make it act while he pressures w/ blade in hand, crash bomb exploding on luma, and us being able to move and nair luma away helps us play around it. GP doesn't shut down Mega as hard as you'd think. Not to mention Rosa is light and very susceptible to MegaMan's edge-guards and bair in general once he can separate. Hard MU to learn but Scatt has beaten Dabuz in the past showing some merit in it being doable. Same with Peabnut beating Falln and trading sets w/ Eldin in his region.

Everyone else I think he can handle fine enough to where they are even at worst. It's mostly Sheik/Fox/Pika/Mario he has to watch out for moreso than the others as those 4 probably don't have a chance to move to even. There's a misconception that he loses to sword characters but it's quite the opposite actually; they all share a lot of the same weaknesses and it takes a specific pellet game to properly maneuver around them. Once you do it well you can punish them for endlag and whiffing, juggle them hard cause they all struggle to land, control the midrange better, force them to approach since they no projectile etc. Not easy to execute tho, especially when people jumping straight into sword swings w/ pellets just to get them sliced apart.

 

[MERPIS]

And with that, the MM discussion closes...We should talk about Cloud now. what's the latest in Cloud discussion? I really want to know, also Mewtwo.

 

[MarioManTAW]

What's the latest in Cloud discussion?

Doubles legality.

 

[Lord Dio]

And with that, the MM discussion closes...We should talk about Cloud now. what's the latest in Cloud discussion? I really want to know, also Mewtwo.

Aside from that kill confirm thing someone posted bout a week ago, and continuing to stay alive and well in doubles, not much tbh.
I'm still waiting for komo to win stuff and get big wins but that's just me.

 

[MERPIS]

Aside from that kill confirm thing someone posted bout a week ago, and continuing to stay alive and well in doubles, not much tbh.
I'm still waiting for komo to win stuff and get big wins but that's just me.

Wait, what kill confirm?

Doubles legality.

Oh boy, are people pulling a smogon and considering banning Cloud from doubles?

 

[Lavani]

Wait, what kill confirm?

Rage uair>Finishing Touch around ~20%

 

[MERPIS]

Rage uair>Finishing Touch around ~20%

Why did I ask

Wait isn't regular uair into finishing touch a thing at 50-60% on most characters?

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Why did I ask

Wait isn't regular uair into finishing touch a thing at 50-60% on most characters?

Can't remember specific details, but I know it has something to do with it's frame 17 hitbox.

 

[MERPIS]

Can't remember specific details, but I know it has something to do with it's frame 17 hitbox.

As if he didn't get enough reward for FF uair as is, now he can kill at 20% from it? That's disgusting. That's like ZSS levels of ridiculousness
What is the rage level Cloud needs to be at?

 

[Lord Dio]

considering banning Cloud from doubles?

considering? Nah, just bringing the subject up, again.

also, precisely f17, sothere's that.
other than that, not much new stuff with the soldier 1st class.

 

[TDK]

Cloud has 245 appearances in the top 8 of doubles majors since the full cast was released.

Sheik, Diddy, and Bayonetta combined have 279, only 34 more than Cloud.

From both a theory and results standpoint he's banworthy in doubles.

 

[Hat N' Clogs]

Cloud has 245 appearances in the top 8 of doubles majors since the full cast was released.

Sheik, Diddy, and Bayonetta combined have 279, only 34 more than Cloud.

From both a theory and results standpoint he's banworthy in doubles.

Out of curiosity, do you think only Double Cloud teams should be banned from teams play, or should Cloud be banned altogether from teams play? (i.e.: Cloud x Cloud is banned, but Cloud x Diddy or others is ok; vs. Cloud is banned from doubles no matter what.)

 

[Ark of Silence101]

As if he didn't get enough reward for FF uair as is, now he can kill at 20% from it? That's disgusting. That's like ZSS levels of ridiculousness
What is the rage level Cloud needs to be at?

It was done on training mode and I have yet to see anyone else do it. It was done on on Smashville I believe and it killed at 30%.

Aside from that kill confirm thing someone posted bout a week ago, and continuing to stay alive and well in doubles, not much tbh.
I'm still waiting for komo to win stuff and get big wins but that's just me.

Meanwhile I am hoping in vain that he will pull out his more.

 

[|RK|]

Just a side point - does anyone else find it interesting that we never discuss the doubles meta, doubles results at tournaments, or literally anything else regarding doubles unless it's about banning Cloud?

And that held true pre-Cloud as well.

 

[Lord Dio]

From both a theory and results standpoint he's banworthy in doubles.

Funny thing actually.......

Spoiler

While this was edited and everyone did use other characters (Shelter verified this and gave the actual version in the comments), the point remains the same, just like how at LTC4 (?) half of top 8 was bayo.

Also a, uh, gentle reminder we have a doubles cloud thread that last I checked hadn't been touched in months.

Meanwhile I am hoping in vain that he will pull out his more.

That would also I be nice, I just kinda want to see him do really well.

 

[TDK]

Out of curiosity, do you think only Double Cloud teams should be banned from teams play, or should Cloud be banned altogether from teams play? (i.e.: Cloud x Cloud is banned, but Cloud x Diddy or others is ok; vs. Cloud is banned from doubles no matter what.)

People like to overreact to Double Cloud a bit, it's still a disgusting team but in terms of results Cloud + Sheik/Diddy/Bayo/Anyothercharacterexceptcloud makes up over 90% of those top placings, and Double Cloud is actually a bit of a rarity (Double Mac seems to be the best double x team in terms of percentage of results given by a double x team). Cloud has every single thing you'd want out of a doubles character and is the best character at them. Cloud's top tier mobility, range, and frame data means his support game is incredible (and oft overlooked because of his kill power). Nair is a huge, fast move that can be used to interrupt opponent team combos, team combo itself, possibly save recovering teammates (wouldn't recommend because of Cloud's own recovery), and also charges limit a little bit if you didn't have it. Additionally, Cloud's throws are some of the best in the game for doubles, especially back throw, with near perfect angles to set up into whatever your opponent wants to do, and then Cloud can get into position for a follow-up, and so it goes. Then there's limit. In doubles, Limit is basically risk-free as the Cloud has another teammate to make it very difficult to punish, and Limit in doubles is even better than Limit in singles. With the increased mobility, Cloud now has an even easier time following up or just killing off of a stray throw at ~65%+ with a massive hitbox for nearly no risk, which, because of his top-tier combo game means that unlike a lot of other power characters, he's capable no matter what you do with him. Doubles makes Cloud's strengths even stronger and nearly removes his weaknesses.

What I'm trying to say is, ban Cloud as a whole. Going down to one per team won't make a difference outside of making one of Leo/Komo opt for a secondary if they team.

 

[MercuryPenny]

and given that doubles is more of a side event and has fewer entrants/viewers than singles anyway, i think we could afford banning cloud even just as an experiment to see what the community reaction is

 

[Deleted member]

Cloud has 245 appearances in the top 8 of doubles majors since the full cast was released.

Sheik, Diddy, and Bayonetta combined have 279, only 34 more than Cloud.

From both a theory and results standpoint he's banworthy in doubles.

I do not think Cloud should be banned at all in doubles but man that is a lot of doubles representation.

Cloud is top two for a reason, as I said before no one for now should complain about Cloud being the second best character unless his results drop drastically.

Just a side point - does anyone else find it interesting that we never discuss the doubles meta, doubles results at tournaments, or literally anything else regarding doubles unless it's about banning Cloud?

And that held true pre-Cloud as well.

That is because a lot of people think the doubles is "fading becaue of Cloud". Many top players like ZeRo and Salem expressed their worries because of that, and a Cloud ban petition could happen in the future; which could scare me because a huge heated debate would envelop the Smash community in a dark aura.
I miss my man @Zelder by the way. Where are you when we need you? You are right |RK| , a doubles meta would be pretty interesting to talk about; except people complain it is filled with too much Cloud.
Bayonetta, Cloud, Diddy Kong and Sheik will always be top four at this point.

 

[NINTENDO Galaxy]

Is 1:26 an example of the recent Finishing Touch discovery?

 

[MERPIS]

Is 1:26 an example of the recent Finishing Touch discovery?

I'd say so, ya. Which is super freaking scary since that killed THAT early on a heavy nonetheless, sure its on town and city, but my point still stands.

 

[Lord Dio]

Is 1:26 an example of the recent Finishing Touch discovery?

hard to tell, but my guess would be yes, could be wrong.

 

[ReVerbIsSuperb]

Wait, are ya'll talking about this? Was lurking through Cloud resources earlier and saw people discussing it. Don't think all the research is complete yet in regards to % charts and whatnot but here's the general concept:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VigWq9EOba97FOaAG6gef1FstxdeYMuDyzJSbO1GlgI/edit

Ruben mentioned how they messed up Finishing Touch in general on his twitter awhile back: https://twitter.com/Ruben_dal/status/934548628936503297

 

[Krysco]

Wasn't doubles initally having issues with G&W + another character like Pikachu or Sheik? Then the same patch that nerfed bucket in doubles also gave us Cloud iirc. Makes sense that the only time doubles is brought up is for banning since it appears to have been constantly revolved around 1 character, plus it's just not as popular as singles.

 

[Lavani]

Wait, are ya'll talking about this? Was lurking through Cloud resources earlier and saw people discussing it. Don't think all the research is complete yet in regards to % charts and whatnot but here's the general concept:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VigWq9EOba97FOaAG6gef1FstxdeYMuDyzJSbO1GlgI/edit

Ruben mentioned how they messed up Finishing Touch in general on his twitter awhile back: https://twitter.com/Ruben_dal/status/934548628936503297

Yeah, that.

Frame 16 sets all characters to 100 weight, 0.087 gravity, and 1.5 fall speed (more or less Mario specs with weight+2), so characters dying earlier to frame 17 would have less favorable survival physics than that. Which as the doc mentions, basically means knockback increases on Lucario or lighter, and decreases on characters heavier than Luc.

That said, the bigger deal is that uair>FT works and scales very favorably with rage. Uair's low base leaves its knockback low enough for comboing, while FT's high base makes it a viable kill move that much sooner. Earlier kills for a wider window.

Wait isn't regular uair into finishing touch a thing at 50-60% on most characters?

It is, it's just a bit less notable because the window's smaller and it's only a couple hits away from Limit Cross Slash kill% anyway (which also does actual damage if they survive, unlike FT's 1%)

 

[The-Technique]

As if he didn't get enough reward for FF uair as is, now he can kill at 20% from it? That's disgusting. That's like ZSS levels of ridiculousness
What is the rage level Cloud needs to be at?

just wanna point out that if cloud is going for ff uair unabated, you're either respecting cloud too much by ducking in shield too much or you need to pick a character with decent rising aerial options

 

[TDK]

Some upsets from Umebura TAT tonight:

Zackray 2-1 Kirihara (Zackray's 14 or 15)
Bt.Yamato 2-1 T
Kome 2-0 Nietono
Yakara 2-1 Raito
Mao 2-1 Tsu-
Kiosk 2-0 Abadango

Check out the stream here: https://www.twitch.tv/shi_gaming

 

[Finh009]

Kiosk mains

Some upsets from Umebura TAT tonight:
Kiosk (?) 2-0 Abadango

Kiosk mains .

shky 2-1 Tsu-
Zackray 2-1 HIKARU
Ri-ma 2-0 Kirihara

Tsu- and Kirihara out at 25th.

HIKARU 2-0 Abadango ?

Abadango out at 17th.

 

[Nu~]

Yeah, that.

Frame 16 sets all characters to 100 weight, 0.087 gravity, and 1.5 fall speed (more or less Mario specs with weight+2), so characters dying earlier to frame 17 would have less favorable survival physics than that. Which as the doc mentions, basically means knockback increases on Lucario or lighter, and decreases on characters heavier than Luc.

That said, the bigger deal is that uair>FT works and scales very favorably with rage. Uair's low base leaves its knockback low enough for comboing, while FT's high base makes it a viable kill move that much sooner. Earlier kills for a wider window.


It is, it's just a bit less notable because the window's smaller and it's only a couple hits away from Limit Cross Slash kill% anyway (which also does actual damage if they survive, unlike FT's 1%)

This is proooooobably off topic but I can’t help but notice that tradgedy in your avi... like, god damn lmao

How the hell does Glutonny make that character work 0_o

 

[Deleted member]

I think I am beginning to agree with Kirby's placing a little more; I do not know.

Also Lucina should be next to Marth soon; her results are booming especially with Mr. E using Lucina more often. And the "Lucina has less range than Math" excuse is not valid and has been disproved many times. Lucina and Marth should be tied next tier list; we will see. They are almost just as similar as Dark Pit and Pit are.

 

[TDK]

Umebura T.A.T. (284 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: KEN
2nd: Choco
3rd: Nietono
4th: Shuton
5th: Kameme
5th: Lv.1
7th: Kome
7th: Umeki
9th: Zackray
9th: HIKARU
9th: Takera
9th: Earth
13th: BT.YAMATO
13th: Ri-ma
13th: bAhuto
13th: Shky
17th: Yakara
17th: Abadango
17th: Matcha
17th: T
17th: Rattsu
17th: Eim
17th: Tarakotori
17th: Mao
25th: Rain
25th: Kirihara
25th: Kirbis
25th: Hayato.
25th: Shu
25th: Tatsutsuyo
25th: YOC
25th: Tsu-

 

[Blobulle]

Umebura T.A.T. (284 Entrants) (Japan)

1st: KEN
2nd: Choco
3rd: Nietono
4th: Shuton
5th: Kameme
5th: Lv.1
7th: Kome
7th: Umeki
9th: Zackray
9th: HIKARU
9th: Takera
9th: Earth
13th: BT.YAMATO
13th: Ri-ma
13th: bAhuto
13th: Shky
17th: Yakara
17th: Abadango
17th: Matcha
17th: T
17th: Rattsu
17th: Eim
17th: Tarakotori
17th: Mao
25th: Rain
25th: Kirihara
25th: Kirbis
25th: Hayato.
25th: Shu
25th: Tatsutsuyo
25th: YOC
25th: Tsu-

I wonder why all the Cloud and Bayonetta mains are so low?

 

[ReVerbIsSuperb]

And there it is, right on cue. Almost as if Kameme knew we were talking about him and his character. Glad to see him make Top 8 going almost 100% MegaMan; only switched for basically one set. I watched a large majority of the tournament so it was nice to see Kameme back in action again after a short period of not seeing him compete at a larger event.

The only other streamed sets before he fell out of winners were when he fought and won against bAhuto's Mario and Takera's Ryu, but looking at who else he fought in winners (YB's Samus, Hayato's Toon Link, & Choco's ZSS) it definitely showcased some interesting MUs overall. Choco with the way he's been tearing up Japan lately was his last opponent in Winners. What I found intriguing however is that right from the start, Kameme didn't even bother trying MegaMan. I don't remember all of their set encounters, but I can recall another time where Kameme went Sheik instead of Mega vs Choco's ZSS. Kameme's playstyle and lacking usage of executing tricks with the full moveset holds him back to an extent in certain MUs and I think this is one of them. I wonder what would happen if he began to employ some of Scatt's tactics for edge-guarding and skillful usage of crouch? Would we see a turnaround similar to what his sets with KEN have turned out to be? Maybe, maybe not, but regardless, I can understand if he currently feels his MegaMan can't do it or that Choco just has his character figured out. Cloud does quite well vs ZSS anyways so that MU is definitely a lot easier and less stressful to execute. He was super close with Cloud too, but Choco clutched it out in the last hit situation.

Unfortunately, right after this set, he was faced up against Nietono in losers. While it was offstream, Nietono I assume went Sheik from the start and Kameme couldn't figure out an answer fast enough. Regardless, excellent showing for Kameme after he felt he had to take time to reevaluate his MegaMan. 5th out of 284 entrants at an event like this is something to be proud of. I hope he can continue to replicate similar results and improve his MegaMan even further than he has shown to have done already. MegaMan and his players still have room to grow and optimizing can only bring us up. This character isn't finished just yet.

ダッシュ掴み、振り向き掴みは非対応でしたがつかみをすかしてから上強や踏みの未来ある。 pic.twitter.com/8WrI5xsgLE

— ACO (@acochanssb4) December 6, 2016