Official 4BR Tier List V4 - Competitive Insight & Analysis

[The_Bookworm]

This is what happens when you bring out the two flashiest Bayonetta players against eachother: probably the most action packed Bayo ditto EVER!!!

 

[Iridium]

Most likely Mistake, considering how well Cosmos is well versed in the Bayo matchup.

Maybe. But I honestly don't see Fatality beating Mistake, even if he beat Salem, but we will see.
Well Mistake 3-2 Cosmos in what could have been a reverse 3-0 for Cosmos or 3-0 for Mistake. Fatality vs. Cosmos will now happen. Cosmos was definitely messing with Mistake's nerves game 3 and 4, but it was not enough.

Nairo 3-2 MkLeo in a nailbiter of a set, as Leo unfortunately lost his momentum near the end, while Nairo was relentless. Let us hope he learned from fighting Mistake at Genesis.

Fatality 3-0 Cosmos for 5th. A lot of unnecessary SDs from Cosmos seemed to cost him the set. Fatality fights the winner of MkLeo and Tweek next.

MkLeo 3-1 Tweek for 5th. Strange counter picks on both sides, but Leo's Marth got the job done. Leo fights Fatality next in his losers run.

Nairo 3-0 Mistake in record time. Definitely learned from Genesis 5 for sure, and he advances to Grand Finals.

MkLeo 3-2 Fatality with a reverse 3-0 using Bayo. The rewards Leo is reaping off of such little time practicing is phenomenal!

MkLeo 3-0 Mistake in order to make it to Grand Finals. He keeps the tradition of being a Bayo slayer alive! He faces off against Nairo once again.

Nairo 3-0 MkLeo to take the tourney! Leo did not play very terribly, but Nairo played even more confidently than last time, and it definitely paid off!

 

[The_Bookworm]

please elaborate

Those two can abuse her frame and her lack of fast ground moves pretty well... almost more than any other character.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Fatality 3-0 Larry Lurr
Tweek 3-1 CaptainZack
Mistake 3-2 Cosmos
Nairo 3-2. MKLeo
Fatality 3-0 Cosmos . Cosmos got bodied sigh...
MKLeo 3-1 Tweek Both went Bayo ditto at one point...
Nairo 3-0 Mistake Nairo is in Grand Finals!
MKLeo 3-2 Fatality
MKLeo 3-0 Mistake MKLeo is now going to Grand Finals!
Nairo 3-0 MKLeo Nairo is the winner!


Right Now:
1st: Nairo
2nd: MKLeo
3rd: Mistake
4th: Fatality
5th: Tweek
5th: Cosmos
7th: CaptainZack
7th: Larry Lurr

 

[The-Technique]

Haha funny joke. 65th at Civil War and EVO 2017, but 1st at Genesis 4, GameTyrant Expo 2017, and 2GG Championship. Doesn't exactly scream "consistency".

Literally 2 of his only bad placings out of his whole resume and *that's* the case you're making for Leo being inconsistent?

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I am very upset from the community against MKLeo right now. The "Fans" talked smack and trashed against Leo for "betraying them" by using a Bayo against falln. In that sense the chat began to make fun of him... People are quickly changing view from MKLeo like if it is a scandal or something. I don't like this community; they are too anti-Bayo. ...

Sure Bayo can be an issue but the community keep lashing at her despite the only way to solve her is to adapt and learn. Fighting and complaining cannot solve the problem, learning CAN solve the problem.

 

[The_Bookworm]

I am very upset from the community against MKLeo right now. The "Fans" talked smack and trashed against Leo for "betraying them" by using a Bayo against falln. In that sense the chat began to make fun of him... People are quickly changing view from MKLeo like if it is a scandal or something. I don't like this community; they are too anti-Bayo. ...

It sucks. It was literally just one set.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

It sucks. It was literally just one set.

and after MKLeo defeated falln against Bayo, people called him a traitor. When the top 8 is over, people complain that there are 4 bayos on top 8, including Leo (He's no even a Bayo main) They even called him the "Judas" of Smash..

Hopefully the community changed their minds...Man, the Bayo controversy grew MUCH MUCH stronger today

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Fatality just 3-0’d Larry Lurr... his demon... It wasn’t even close... WHAT IS HAPPENING

Madness is happening, this is flipping the smash community on it's head.

 

[MercuryPenny]

smash 4's twitter community is literal garbage and im happy they'll be chasing after the shiny new thing in a few months

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

Maybe. But I honestly don't see Fatality beating Mistake, even if he beat Salem, but we will see.
Well Mistake 3-2 Cosmos in what could have been a reverse 3-0 for Cosmos or 3-0 for Mistake. Fatality vs. Cosmos will now happen. Cosmos was definitely messing with Mistake's nerves game 3 and 4, but it was not enough.

Nairo 3-2 MkLeo in a nailbiter of a set, as Leo unfortunately lost his momentum near the end, while Nairo was relentless. Let us hope he learned from fighting Mistake at Genesis.

I hope Nairos done his homework on the matchup, hes definitely going to need it.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Fatality bodied Cosmos 3-0!

TWO Dair SD's Why Cosmos!!

Is the Corrin vs. Captain Falcon MU THAT bad for Corrin? Cosmos got bodied everytime he met Fatality!

 

[Iridium]

I hope Nairos done his homework on the matchup, hes definitely going to need it.

If he someone manages to take out three Bayos, he's going down in Smash history for additional reasons. I definitely see him doing it.

 

[Frihetsanka]

Is the Corrin vs. Captain Falcon MU THAT bad for Corrin? Cosmos got bodied everytime he met Fatality!

It's even, but if you make one mistake at the wrong time, you'll lose your stock.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

MKLeo vs Tweek as Bayo dittos...

This couldn't get any worse from the community....lol

 

[The_Bookworm]

Battle for Vegas: aka both the rise and fall of Leo's Bayo. LOL
Tweek is responsible for both. LOL

Seriously... the moment I saw the second game start, I died laughing.

 

[The-Technique]

I gotta admit its pretty funny watching chat express both joy and contempt as Leo switched between Bayonetta and Marth in his set vs Tweek.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

Nairo made it to Grand Finals at Smash Masters Vegas (A-Tier) as he 3-0 Mistake!

MKLeo used Bayo to 3-2 Fatality! His Bayonetta is pretty good!

GG to Fatality for helping the C. Falcon meta!

 

[The_Bookworm]

Seems like MKLeo has perfected the "9B Dive".

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

It's even, but if you make one mistake at the wrong time, you'll lose your stock.

Thats the volatile nature of the matchup, whoever capitalizes on the other's mistakes first wins.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

This game sucks ****

I know we are all salty that MKLeo beat Fatality with Bayonetta but FACE it, the Bayonetta representation wasn't nearly as bad as Brawl/Melee were there are swarms of MKs/Foxes in all top 8. The community will always constantly blaming of one thing and they want to ban it. But if they have the chance to ban it, then the community will split up. Violence and complaining will not solve the issue. I feel the same way too, it's natural to feel angry but angerness can leave consequences so try your best to remove it. Embrace and breath, and relax and smile.

Also, if you don't like this game, be happy that at least Smash 5 is coming up. Who knows about Bayonetta coming to Smash 5 and if so, who knows wether she gets nerfed or buffed.

Also be glad that at least Fatality placed 4th. Having a character with a bad disadvantage placing 4th at an A-Tier is no fooling around. Especiallly loosing to a respectable player.

 

[TDK]

smash 4's twitter community is literal garbage and im happy they'll be chasing after the shiny new thing in a few months

I mean, this thread's also gone downhill really fast too. Might just be the community in general.

Smash Masters League: Vegas (154 Entrants) (Vegas)

1st: Nairo
2nd: MKLeo
3rd: Mistake
4th: Fatality
5th: Tweek
5th: Cosmos
7th: Captain Zack
7th: Larry Lurr
9th: Falln
9th: Salem
9th: Brosinex
9th: VoiD
13th: Charliedaking
13th: Ally
13th: Eon
13th: Captain L

 

[Iridium]

I mean, this thread's also gone downhill really fast too. Might just be the community in general.

Smash Masters League: Vegas (154 Entrants) (Vegas)

1st: Nairo
2nd: MKLeo
3rd: Mistake
4th: Fatality
5th: Tweek
5th: Cosmos
7th: Captain Zack
7th: Larry Lurr
9th: Falln
9th: Salem
9th: Brosinex
9th: VoiD
13th: Charliedaking
13th: Ally
13th: Eon
13th: Captain L

I can see my prediction was correct. Nairo, Leo and Mistake consisting of the top 3, although Tweek fell in 5th. Leo used Bayo a lot more than I thought he would, and he must have been practicing beforehand, as he pulled off a reverse 3-0 on Fatality with her. As I thought, Nairo did not disappoint at all, and beat every Bayo he had to deal with, and now has 4 wins on MkLeo this season, even if Tokaigi doesn't count for much.

Full Bloom 4 (125 Entrants) (Indiana)
1st: Ned
2nd: Samsora
3rd: Locus
4th: Darkshad
5th: Tyroy
5th: sinnyboy242
7th: LOE1
7th: Nom
9th: Benson Obama
9th: ANTi
9th: Ozone
9th: Zinoto
13th: XzibitA
13th: Sells
13th: Gemini
13th: TriVium
17th: SNooFL
17th: BT-Mac
17th: Sicle
17th: Triangleye
17th: QD
17th: Diffy-Q
17th: Prod
17th: Zymi Smilez

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

I can see my prediction was correct. Nairo, Leo and Mistake consisting of the top 3, although Tweek fell in 5th. Leo used Bayo a lot more than I thought he would, and he must have been practicing beforehand, as he pulled off a reverse 3-0 on Fatality with her. As I thought, Nairo did not disappoint at all, and beat every Bayo he had to deal with, and now has 4 wins on MkLeo this season, even if Tokaigi doesn't count for much.

Let's go Nairo. I really hope he takes this one.

 

[JustCallMeJon]

I mean, this thread's also gone downhill really fast too. Might just be the community in general.

Smash Masters League: Vegas (154 Entrants) (Vegas)

1st: Nairo
2nd: MKLeo
3rd: Mistake
4th: Fatality
5th: Tweek
5th: Cosmos
7th: Captain Zack
7th: Larry Lurr
9th: Falln
9th: Salem
9th: Brosinex
9th: VoiD
13th: Charliedaking
13th: Ally
13th: Eon
13th: Captain L

Fatality once again placed top 8 on an A-Tier while beating top players such as Salem, Cosmos, Larry Lurr, and Ally. This is fantastic for the Falcon community and fantastic for Fatality himself. I am happy that he regains his former glory once again, this time more consistent and better.

By looking at his placements and his wins, will Fatality place top 10 this PGR? If so, he will possibly be the first top 10 player that uses a high tier character since a long time. Gotta hope for the best! :eyes:

Also, people over look CloudHead. It made a return once again! If you didn't know about Cloudhead, it a predicting of the upcoming PGR rankings using estimate data. You can check the spreadsheet out!
Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iGovSC6JqzIwVvPkfGZ7Dwo_TvozGGLzbhk_Z7TTq1A/edit#gid=0

 

[Iridium]

Let's go Nairo. I really hope he takes this one.

He already did, if you didn't know. He lost game 1 as Marth, and the other two as Bayo, with Nairo in a way making comebacks into leads.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

He already did, if you didn't know. He lost game 1 as Marth, and the other two as Bayo, with Nairo in a way making comebacks into leads.

That's great, Nairo is a really explosive player, thats why people like him. Also, hes just a really chill enjoyable guy overall.

 

[The_Bookworm]

SML: Battle for Vegas (A Tier)
1st: Nairo
2nd: MKLeo
3rd: Mistake
4th: Fatality
5th: Tweek
5th: Cosmos
7th: Captain Zack
7th: Larry Lurr

Nairo pretty much said "Leo.... put that Bayo away. You are a sword user."

Full Bloom 4 (C Tier)
1st: Ned
2nd: Samsora
3rd: Locus
4th: Darkshad
5th: tyroy
5th: sinnyboo242
7th: Nom
7th: LOE1

 

[spinalwolf]

I am very upset from the community against MKLeo right now. The "Fans" talked smack and trashed against Leo for "betraying them" by using a Bayo against falln. In that sense the chat began to make fun of him... People are quickly changing view from MKLeo like if it is a scandal or something. I don't like this community; they are too anti-Bayo. ...

Sure Bayo can be an issue but the community keep lashing at her despite the only way to solve her is to adapt and learn. Fighting and complaining cannot solve the problem, learning CAN solve the problem.

"Just learn to beat the character" sorry but no. This is a poor argument and I'm getting fed up of seeing it from people justifying bs characters. The Pro MK community back in brawl said the exact same thing. It doesn't matter how good you are at the MU if the character is so good that no amount of matchup knowledge will stop them from being far too good in the meta. I'm of course in no way defending the community from attacking Leo like they did. However I wanna point out that matchup knowledge will only get you so far against a character like Bayo.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

"Just learn to beat the character" sorry but no. This is a poor argument and I'm getting fed up of seeing it from people justifying bs characters. The Pro MK community back in brawl said the exact same thing. It doesn't matter how good you are at the MU if the character is so good that no amount of matchup knowledge will stop them from being far too good in the meta. I'm of course in no way defending the community from attacking Leo like they did. However I wanna point out that matchup knowledge will only get you so far against a character like Bayo.

I agree, no amount of matchup knowledge will save you from a characters monstrous tools.

 

[The_Bookworm]

"Just learn to beat the character" sorry but no. This is a poor argument and I'm getting fed up of seeing it from people justifying bs characters. The Pro MK community back in brawl said the exact same thing. It doesn't matter how good you are at the MU if the character is so good that no amount of matchup knowledge will stop them from being far too good in the meta. I'm of course in no way defending the community from attacking Leo like they did. However I wanna point out that matchup knowledge will only get you so far against a character like Bayo.

Funny how Bayo isn't winning much majors at all. Bayo is the best character in the game (hence why she is a common character in the game with many tools), but there is counterplay indeed. Bayo at lower level play are also getting a bit less results (although the higher level Bayo players are getting better results).

 

[spinalwolf]

Funny how Bayo isn't winning much majors at all. Bayo is the best character in the game (hence why she is a common character in the game with many tools), but there is counterplay indeed. Bayo at lower level play are also getting a bit less results (although the higher level Bayo players are getting better results).

The point is that even with proper sdi, its still possible to kill up the top or get some janky kill with nair's till she takes you to the side of the blast zones. Why should I die because of one mistake I made, even though I outplayed my opponent consistently in neutral? Its not about winning majors, its about whats best and healthy for the competitive scene. Its clear no one likes Bayo. Getting rid of her would bolster more viewership for smash 4. She's unhealthy for the meta game.

 

[The_Bookworm]

The point is that even with proper sdi, its still possible to kill up the top or get some janky kill with nair's till she takes you to the side of the blast zones. Why should I die because of one mistake I made, even though I outplayed my opponent consistently in neutral? Its not about winning majors, its about whats best and healthy for the competitive scene. Its clear no one likes Bayo. Getting rid of her would bolster more viewership for smash 4. She's unhealthy for the meta game.

Dying off of one single mistake against Bayo doesn't happen often tbh. It does accumulate off of multiple mistakes. She does have somewhat an effect on the viewership, but the community would eventually chew on another character anyways. She is frustrating to fight, but fighting characters like Sonic is a pain in the butt as well. Sometimes you have to suck it up as a player and press on against the bs.

 

[Prince Koopa Jr]

The point is that even with proper sdi, its still possible to kill up the top or get some janky kill with nair's till she takes you to the side of the blast zones. Why should I die because of one mistake I made, even though I outplayed my opponent consistently in neutral? Its not about winning majors, its about whats best and healthy for the competitive scene. Its clear no one likes Bayo. Getting rid of her would bolster more viewership for smash 4. She's unhealthy for the meta game.

Yeah, Bayo is just an obnoxious character. She has a ridiculous comeback game in that you can be out playing her and then you lose one neutral exchange and die for it. It's infuriating.

 

[spinalwolf]

Dying off of one single mistake against Bayo doesn't happen often tbh. It does accumulate off of multiple mistakes. She does have somewhat an effect on the viewership, but the community would eventually chew on another character anyways. She is frustrating to fight, but fighting characters like Sonic is a pain in the butt as well. Sometimes you have to suck it up as a player and press on against the bs.

Its not often sure, but it happens enough to the point where its just absurd she has that option in the first place. It doesn't even have to be off of one mistake. There's many times you only made like a couple misplays and then the bayo just kills you. Its absolutely unfair and not fun for anyone. What other character would the community even go after? Cloud? The only thing people complain about Cloud for is how good he is in doubles. No other character in the game has the janky bs kill options Bayo does and thats the problem.

 

[The_Bookworm]

No other character in the game has the janky bs kill options Bayo does and thats the problem.

(ZSS and Mario quickly runs to the corner thinking that they are in the clear.)

 

[Iridium]

Anybody feel bad for Larry Lurr? He is among the more consistent players in the metagame, yet can never seem to take any majors, at least in recent times.

 

[spinalwolf]

(But then they realize they don't come anywhere near close to Bayo on how consistently she can pull it off, and they rely on platforms. Especially Mario)

 

[The_Bookworm]

(But then they realize they don't come anywhere near close to Bayo on how consistently she can pull it off, and they rely on platforms. Especially Mario)

Granted that it is Bayo's main KO option (as her other KO option requires deep edgeguards, and sweetspot back airs), but did you see how the tournament ended?

 

[Minordeth]

We gonna do this again? Really? After a ZSS went on a Bayo spring cleaning?

Perspective: The top four Bayos in country, if not the world, went to a glorified regional tourney - with no international presence and missing two of the most capable anti-Bayo players - and couldn’t pull out a win.

More perspective: Bayo gets handicapped if you know what you are doing. Watch Cosmos vs Tweek to see how her damage output gets limited hard.
Watch any of the Ryu matches at Full Bloom to see how she has issues killing.

Facts: If you know what you are doing, she has to hope she can catch you with random Bair or an unsafe Dtilt -> Uair to kill you.