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7.0.3 discussion

Isatis

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I'm making sure everything's ordered right with the final patch to Brawl+...crossed out is stuff already done, and everything not crossed out is what is being worked on/don't have the file for:


* New Link fair: Viet has the .pac with this change. http://www.mediafire.com/?ynzn30jktmy

* Alternate DJCH fix applied to the Yoshi and Ness .pacs and the old fix removed.

* All .pacs modified with Viet's camera fix: Count Kaiser has all the 7.0 .pacs updated with this EXCEPT for the new Link (Done), Yoshi, and Ness, who will need this applied to them. http://www.mediafire.com/?j0jnn2t4zow

* Distant Planet+ taken down if it hasn't already

* Ganon's sword .pac put back up.

* Correct Summit+ put in.

* Custom SSS code added in

* Tumble Fix Yeroc posted the fix in the Brawl+ thread:
ADT code: 80585FF8 -> 80585EF8 Should fix it.
* New common5.pac to match both SSS and other stages Perfect Chaos is too good


As soon as we have all of the files and codes done and everything on the list is striked off, we're good to go :bee:
 

omegablackmage

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charizard's up b (the force shove after the up b finishes) - makes it impossible for charizard to sweetspot from behind the ledge


Also, what happened with this update? We voted on absolutely nothing... its like everything got done on irc in one day and it was incredibly rushed at the end.
 

JCaesar

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Also, what happened with this update? We voted on absolutely nothing... its like everything got done on irc in one day and it was incredibly rushed at the end.
Yeah, this.

A lot of the changes were complete surprises. Don't get me wrong, most of them were for the better, but I thought as part of the "balance team" we'd at least get a heads-up...
 

Thunderhorse+

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I have to say, I'm fairly concerned that we got next to no warning on some of these updates. I was even in the IRC chat, and there was no talk to the extent of my knowledge about stuff like Bowser's aerial upB change, Zelda's transform change, or hell even what we would be planning to do with her usmash. It's not like I necessarily disagree with any of the stealth changes, but it makes it seem like we're less of a team and instead more of "Cape's Lackeys". But stuff like...

* Ganon's sword .pac put back up? If it hasn't already been.
No, Ganon's sword pac should not be put back up. It was a stupid idea formulated by a stupid premise in the first place, one that has not been voted on and if I had my way, I'd vote it down a hundred times (it violates a long-standing rule we had that we would never change movesets. I think Marth was a one-time only thing not only because we weren't changing his moveset per-say as merely altering its animation because it was the most convenient option. Leave outright moveset changing to Project M please).

Point is, this project, as of its new iteration of WBR after the purge, always had a pretty good leadership structure, even if sometimes people wouldn't agree 100% on some issues. This was the first time where we, as a balance testing team, have blatantly been subverted, and that's very disturbing to me.
 

omegablackmage

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I just find it a little sad that there is an update out... and i have absolutely no idea what has been changed in it. Very little discussion went on back here, so im not even sure what the point of this back room is.
 

Veril

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OBM you need to call me.

General response to criticisms: not a personal attack at anyone in particular

This wasn't sprung on anyone. If any of you stepped out of this little bubble into the IRC or called me, PMed me, attempted in any way to follow what was going on than you wouldn't be in this situation. Feel left out? Boo f***ing hoo. WBR business has ALWAYS took place in the irc and I have even POSTED MY NUMBER for you recluses to take advantage of.

Guess how many people who have called me have gotten to speak to me, at length, when they've called? EVERYONE! How long did finished .pacs (other than the sakurai angle changes and zard) have to be available (seriously Cape and Yeroc coded them a while ago, and none of you really pursued getting them, and none of you did any coding...).

Cape completely ***** all of the counterarguments about Zelda, and played umbreon Mow. Umbreon and VaNz both believe that Zelda is overpowered, and they are simply better than the other Zelda+ players. Nobody posted after Magus, at which point the alternate Zelda fix had been completely discounted. If you had really wanted to make a .pac, you would have gotten one. I don't even have PSA on my computer, yet I have little trouble getting tester .pacs for fixes that aren't incredibly terrible ideas. You didn't put the effort in. Sorry, Cape was right, demonstrated he was right, and you twiddled your thumbs. I know many of you have issues with him but that is not my problem. The issues in this set stemmed from coding mistakes or simple oversights. Easily fixed problems compared to balance errors. Like Cape before, I did what needed to be done to make this set work.

Marth players, as furious as they made me sometimes, worked and fought and in the end the ideal solution was reached. This is why I now grudgingly respect them as a group. They were active. Also Shell is amazing...

Charizard's up-b: First off, I made charizard f***ing snazzy. Every charizard player I've heard from likes what I did. His up-b didn't get changed because the change we voted on would literally have NO effect AT ALL over what is currently possible. Jesus Christ! The extra-jump was voted down and is impossible to balance, predict, or even code from what I've been told.

Sakurai angles: that was seriously a change that you had to keep up on. It was a ton of work, and I DID take pains to inform people of them. I had to shift around a bunch after Shell pointed out an important problem with teching on reaction that was true, so angles were generally changed to 35. The logic behind it is so f***ing sound. Same with the stage boundaries. Which are amazing. You know who's input I took on those? Nobody. I just did it. Made a post about it here. Got very little in the way of contributions from anyone, and did it myself.

The voting process was pointless in practice, though awesome in theory. Several votes were negated by information or new options that came later, a group of changes was prohibitively large and complex for you all to have opinions on, something that was reflected in the general lack of insight from people. Every change I wanted to happen was voted yes, and the ones I personally opposed were all voted no. Even with the votes, some turned out to be bad ideas or unworkable (diddy's recovery fix for example). I work 2 jobs and am a commuter student in a difficult major. Spoon feeding you all the updates was impossible but I still got on the irc EVEN DURING CLASS to keep people updated.


This x10000
Are you in the b+broom. NO. This is an internal affair.
 

Thunderhorse+

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So I just had a talk with Cape. Alot of the reason why this was done was that everything was taking too long, the ends justifying the means (comparing it to his own coup de tat of the original WBR), and us, as a balance team, not contributing a whole lot coding-wise (only having himself, Blinds, Yeroc, and Veril coding). In particular...

<thecape77> So they were ok with the horrific mess of a 5.0 changelist?
<thecape77> Better to not have one than to have one that isnt right
<thecape77> Or contradicts itself
<ShadowDevil417> that's true, but we can trust ourselves, as a competent team, to make a good, solid changelist
<ShadowDevil417> not one that isn't right like the 5.0 team
<thecape77> So why havent we?
<thecape77> Oh yea
<thecape77> Because we have 4 people doing the work for a team of 12
<thecape77> Thats right
<thecape77> Lazy incompetant ****s
<thecape77> And that includes you
<thecape77> PSA is not hard to learn
<thecape77> You could easily be taught it and spend your free time working on a character or two
<thecape77> instead of leaving all the work to Blind, Veril, and I

I can at least see where his frustration is coming from, and I haven't been able to do some PSA because 1. I run a mac and can't double boot a windows OS and 2. The character I work on would be Falco, who was pretty much complete (aside from aesthetic SHL stuff) after I re-tooled Cape's original shine+ mod. So fine, I still can't contribute much to actual coding, but I bring this quote up because we still don't have a comprehensive changelist and that is something we, as a team, can still contribute to this project now that it's coming to an end if we take the same approach to it as we could have done with coding, considering the GSH team have a solid grasp on most of the cast.

Something we can consider for 7.0.3? Maybe.
 

omegablackmage

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i just talked to cape, i will hopefully be working on making changelists for characters soon. honestly didn't realize this was a big issue
 

Veril

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Blind has to get me the changelists that are completed. I believe the majority of them are.


Blind. Please. Do that.

The sakurai angle changes deviate somewhat, but not drastically, from the PM that I sent out. Most characters ONLY got sakurai angle fixes.


I tried to have discussions here but they were not anywhere near as productive as the IRC/phone/char discussion threads.

i just talked to cape, i will hopefully be working on making changelists for characters soon. honestly didn't realize this was a big issue
You should speak with Blind. Most of the people working with him crapped out in some way.


As to Ganon's sword. Its seriously crap as an actual moveset to use competitively. Its just cool. There's nothing wrong with it. That said I don't care if its taken down.
 

Yeroc

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I already converted the camera stuff on it. I was gonna upload it with the rest of the new pacs when I got everything put together tomorrow night or Tuesday.

Updated the Samus bombs too (instant bomb explosion has pop up, can be acted out of). I just need the Yoshi/Ness fixes, and I'll try to devise a fix for PT and the characters should be done.
 

Glick

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Yikes. This is embarrassing.
7.0.3 just sounds bad.
Just say 7.0 bug fixes included in the final posting of it.

A triple update after a "Final" update looks bad. But it needs to be done obviously.

Yeah I know how Veril is feeling. I was with blind and veril on the irc for parts of the night while they were working their ***** off by themselves.

While all of the other WBR members who were supposed to be making changelists/coding changes were hanging out and playing PM Veril and Blind LITERALLY stayed up all night working on stuff(even stuff people voted on).

I mean. ****. I was having a SMASHFEST and I managed to call veril and tell him DDD was crashing and that cstick dair was fast falling...

Veril is 100% right with what he's saying. I know I'm not all that useful in the WBR because I lack skills in the development department of this project, but i hope i haven't been useless...

Updated the Samus bombs too (instant bomb explosion has pop up, can be acted out of).
Wasn't this taken out because of crazy loop that could be done using it?
 

shanus

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Wasn't this taken out because of crazy loop that could be done using it?
No, we made a working version in project m that behaves identical to melee and has been transferred t here.
 

Plum

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Can I ask why exactly 7.0 was pushed to be out so early in the first place?
There was the leak that it would be released Saturday, then Veril came out saying it would be Sunday.
But why did it have to be Sunday?

Months ago when we saw nightlies coming out, and frequent shifts to the next "better" version, I remember the WBR giving us a date, then either not hitting that date or giving us something rushed, sloppy, and poorly implemented. I have mad ****ing respect for Veril, Blind, Bionic, Yeroc, and anyone else I'm not remembering who busted their ***** off for days to get the set out. That was nothing easy to do. I'm not trying to bash or anything here, but the set was rushed, and those who worked to get the set out put too much on their shoulders and gave themselves too little time.

It would have gone so much more smoothly had you finished coding the set whenever time allowed you to do so, put the set up for download here for the B+roomers to test and iron out issues, and then finally set up an official release date to the public. Instead, we saw a rushed release that had glitches, freezing, things left out, and sadly the public bashes the set because of it.

Now, obviously it's too late to change how the set was released, but why was it rushed to be out in the first place? Coming from somebody who used to wait around for the next release under the old WBR, I always would have prefered a better product than one that was out earlier.
 

Revven

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Oi, I'm willing to tackle one or two characters as far as changelists go. If DK hasn't been done yet, let me at that one and any one other one that hasn't been done yet. I'll make time for'em (despite how ****ing busy I may be this month since it's the second last month of school for me)
 

Veril

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The issues with previous sets have involved infinites or incredibly imbalanced moves like Lucario's up-throw, game breaking glitches, survivability completely overlooked, movesets that were buggy as f*** like Sonic's...

The issues with this set were coding errors that have ALL either been fixed or a fix has been isolated or really simple oversights like Link's fair that occurred because Blind and I were fried and I couldn't get in touch with Yeroc before the release due to Herb3 and tornados. The other problem was a major new code made by Kirk/Blind which has been replaced by an alternate version created by Yeroc/Shanus. The messy release has got everyone working again, which is a good thing.

7.0 needed to come out before the character balance and gameplay issues (which I've addressed) turned any more players off to B+. That's why it was released. The glitches were unfortunate but ultimately far less significant than they appear now.


So, my alternate question: What are YOU going to do now? If you're reading this wondering, wtf happened, you're doing it wrong. Produce something: Hype, GOOD character guides (that aren't hopelessly outdated, if you're waiting on a changelist STOP WAITING and contact Blind or get off your a** and make it yourself), weeklies, talk to your vBrawl friends (especially high level players), make a combo list, SOMETHING just f***ing do something.

Lots of people have come through and helped me out (mostly after the fact, but w/e), notably Blind/Yeroc/Cape/Shanus/Bio/Count Kaiser/the stage hackers but also Viet, Glick, Guru, Kirk, GHNeko etc. Count Kaiser especially, who isn't even in the wbr and tbh doesn't meet the skill requisite for the b+broom, was a HUGE help to me. Why were they able to do something that other people in the wbr did not?
 

MK26

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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
Yikes. This is embarrassing.
7.0.3 just sounds bad.
Just say 7.0 bug fixes included in the final posting of it.
I'd like to suggest dropping the number and resetting the counter. This is the first Brawl+ codeset that we can call Gold, so why call it anything but "Brawl+ Gold"? It's Brawl+ 7.0.3, too, but we don't need both descriptions one after the other. We can add numbered DLC packs as they come out, and call the 6-month update Brawl+ Gold 2nd Edition or something, but I'd like to think of this codeset as Brawl+ Gold, period.

EDIT: I'd also like to thank FroHo for making us stage hackers (read: me) not look like dead weight, and say that Veril sounds like a guy in desperate need of people to stop ****ing *****ing. So, people, stop ****ing *****ing.
 

Veril

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^^ truth.


Shanus, could you repost your Double Jump Cancel Hover fix here? That would complete the checklist just about...
 

Plum

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Well I would be happy to take over the DDD thread if you want the character boards to become up to date for a change... I don't know when the last time one of those threads had the OP's updated :3
and I'm not helping by having the OP in the Wario thread looooong (maaaany months) after I stopped playing him
 

shanus

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^^ truth.


Shanus, could you repost your Double Jump Cancel Hover fix here? That would complete the checklist just about...
Hmmm, repost my fix?

I'm not sure what B+ is currently using and what has been tried or not.

Blind, can you post about all this, I don't have time to DL it right now.
 

VietGeek

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well no idea if this jogs your memory but it was some unlabeled PSA events (two if i recall; with '0E' as the first two hex digits) you came up with in response to Nachos' criticism about DJC's rather small execution window (indirectly caused by the fix for the float glitch).
 

Veril

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Well I would be happy to take over the DDD thread if you want the character boards to become up to date for a change... I don't know when the last time one of those threads had the OP's updated :3
and I'm not helping by having the OP in the Wario thread looooong (maaaany months) after I stopped playing him
5ive is updating Pikachu, Sulfur is making a new Ivysaur thread. Jigglypuff is 6.0 updated. Bandit has his Zelda+ thread set up rather nicely though the information needs to be filled in.

iirc Viet is working on his threads.

Yes, I very much want the threads to be updated. Please.

well no idea if this jogs your memory but it was some unlabeled PSA events (two if i recall; with '0E' as the first two hex digits) you came up with in response to Nachos' criticism about DJC's rather small execution window (indirectly caused by the fix for the float glitch).
Yeah, I'm kicking myself for not saving that conversation.
 

Isatis

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Well I would be happy to take over the DDD thread if you want the character boards to become up to date for a change... I don't know when the last time one of those threads had the OP's updated :3
and I'm not helping by having the OP in the Wario thread looooong (maaaany months) after I stopped playing him
Thanks to Omni, I've figured out how to change ownership of a thread. Tell me if you want to, and I'll gladly do so. (Also applies to everyone else too) Stuff does need updating though.
 

Plum

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I started writng up a new guide last night, and once I get it much more complete I'll have you switch ownership.
 

Yeroc

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They seemed to work, but for the sake of data arrangement I'm trying to find an older version of Yoshi that I can use. Veril if you have any Yoshi's that don't have Blinds's attempts on them from February I'd like to use it. Or if you know that the pac from January 6th is up to date I have it already.

Edit: I went through and applied the new jump recover, changed the fair and fsmash angles, and applied my new djc fix to the January pac. Testing now. If I'm missing something that got added in the February/March period let me know.

Edit 2/3/4: It didn't work. The copied side B fix doesn't seem to work either, though it works in the other pac. Is there more to it?

Edit 5: I just went with and fixed the newest pac, and the Ness pac. What are the conversions on the camera values?
 

Veril

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Corey, you need the 6.0 Yoshi and Ness .pacs?

Changes other than the DJCH fix and camera stuff for 7.0
Ness:
•Fsmash: 361° -> 35°
•PKT2(Both hitboxes): 361° -> 40°

Yoshi:
•side-b second jump refresh counter set to 1
•Fsmash: 361 ->35
•Fair(Flub hitbox): 361 ->35
 

VietGeek

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I'm gonna assume the camera values in the .PACs right now don't deviate from my original adjustments:

Yoshi:
0x1FC: 22->30
0x200: -9->-24
0x204: 13.5->12
0x208: -9->-12
0x20C: 9->12

Ness:
0x1FC: 22->30
0x200: -9->-24
0x204: 10.5->12
0x208: -7->-12
0x20C: 10->12
 

omegablackmage

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ok so i am working with psa right now on wario/gw to start and then i'll move on from there based on my free time, but i would like to see a changelist get done by the end of the week/weekend?
 

VietGeek

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I guess you already now that the SSE: Jungle/Temple slot on the 1st page freezes the game, and the second one still takes you to SSE: Jungle then?

EDIT: To anyone trying out the link Yeroc posted: Frame Speed Modifiers do NOT work. Probably just a corrupt .gct. Or Yeroc injected weird mysterious things into it again. :012:
 

VietGeek

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Yep, everything works now. Just wondering though, wouldn't it probably be for the best that we remove the Level Freeze on Spear Pillar? The stage is currently still illegal so I personally don't see the point of keeping our modifications to it. Plus, you know, we might as well make it fun to play "under the influence" :012:.

I believe Veril said it was okay as well on the IRC...IIRC. :048:

If so, just remove this line before the release:

2A180F3A 00000015

EDIT: Don't forget to add the new Link .pac in Bio's opening post.
 
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