A Guide to Farore's Wind - Updated Teleport-Cancelling Section

[calicocal]

Unfortuneately I was not able to get the video done today. If nothing crazy happens I should be able to get it up tomorrow though. *crosses fingers*

 

[S2]

Great guide Luthien.

This should be required reading for Zelda players.

 

[Ztarfish]

I totally picked the WW Zelda like 2 months back

 

[Luthien]

A Temporary Video

For those of you who haven't seen it or tried, here's a Zelda match featuring ledgestealing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GL-3bUS_PY

2:12-2:13. Sadly, Theruk didn't take advantage of it, but you can clearly see how there was no reappearing spin or lag. Not to mention s/he got his/her jumps back (s/he wasn't flashing dark, that's how you can tell). So yeah, until Calicocal can get his/her video up, here's what it looks like.

 

[TheLake]

Jeeez Awsome stuff. Farores wind rulez! Hope to see that other vid soon

 

[Luthien]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=b4wEpYUHVyg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmswASKMEBY&NR=1

These are pretty nifty videos. I like them. They feature examples of using On-the-Ground teleporting, Anti-Juggling, and non-sweetspot recovery aggressively. Watch and learn.

But there is something I would like to point out because of these videos. These videos should give you an idea of what to do with Farore's Wind and what not to do.

Aggressive use of Farore's Wind is NOT a proactive tool. It is a reactive tool. You should be punishing your opponent's actions by teleporting into them, you shouldn't be starting an attack with it.

I'll give an example. If you're doing Zelda dittoes, feel free to try and On-the-ground teleport aggressively from the start. See what happens. Wanna know what happened to me? Ryoko shielded it and baired me in the back of the skull. If your opponent is just standing there, prepare for the attack to get shielded and for a nice butt-kicking.

Your opponent should be doing something when you cast Farore's Wind, so Zelda has enough time to actually use the technique. I'll go back to that match with Ryoko, where his Zelda casted Din's Fire while I was in teleport range. I was far enough away for the teleport to finish before Din's Fire reached me, and it was too late for Ryoko to cancel the ball of fire and shield before I got to him and hit him.

Ryoko still won the match by a ton, but that's beside the point.

Test for yourself and see what you can punish and what you can't. Almost every opponent has a method of horribly punishing you out of shield, however, so be wary.

 

[Rorshock]

That helped me alot thx...

 

[S2]

That whole last section about the B-air out of the Farore's makes my mind bleed. I can't wait until someone can do this in tournaments at will. Until then, I'll be practicing and cursing at my tv.

 

[Luthien]

That whole last section about the B-air out of the Farore's makes my mind bleed. I can't wait until someone can do this in tournaments at will. Until then, I'll be practicing and cursing at my tv.

Heh. I've recorded some videos and sent them to someone who can upload them to youtube. They should be up soon. You'll be pleasantly surprised. :]

I wasn't able to record this, but if you bair your opponent off the ledge at a low percent, it can almost always lead into a footstool jump to ensure the KO. It's really satisfying.

On a side note, I'm considering dubbing this technique "Ledgewarping" instead of "Ledgestealing". So far, it hasn't actually 'stolen' any ledges for me, so I figure "Ledgewarping" is more appropriate. If you've got anything better, let me know.

 

[S2]

I look forward to those videos then. It'll be a great aid in learning how to do this myself.

Yeah, "ledgewarping" sounds really good, it makes it sound pretty clear that it's a Zelda specific move (who else warps? M2... he's gone).

That name also bypasses all my pet peeve about naming techniques and advanced tactics. Techniques should be named around what they do and both names you coined do just that.

 

[Angewomon]

The guide helped me to improve my skills using Zelda. Anyway, I must practice more.

Thanks a lot Luthien.

 

[Luthien]

The Incomplete List of Things You can Punish with FW

I'm just gonna take this one step at a time; if you have anything to add, please do. This is a list of things you can punish with teleporting.

Zelda:
1) Din's Fire. Farore's is actually one of the best ways to approach a Din's spamming Zelda, because it bypasses the ball's ability to detonate at any time. If you're within range of a full teleport's flight (anything shorter and the ball of fire might reach you first), you can teleport through Din's Fire before they cancel the fireball and attempt to shield. However, you should wait a second before using FW, because the longer Din's Fire is out, the more your opponent is going to hesitate (they should wonder if it will reach you in time when you teleport). Using Farore's Wind properly, you won't have to worry about airdodging the fireball and getting usmashed in the face.
2) Fsmash. If the Zelda for some strange reason charges an fsmash in the hopes you'll run into it, or if she's trying to guard the ledge with it, teleport behind her. You should punish this with better attacks, but if FW is your only option (i.e. you're coming from the air off the stage), aim behind her.
3) Naryu's Love. This'll happen once in a blue moon, but do what you like if your opponent just throws one out there. Again, you can punish with better stuff than Farore's.
4) Usmash. If a Zelda is trying to juggle you with usmash, you can sometimes beat her to the punch if you reappear on a certain side of her when she lets this attack fly. Make sure you don't teleport into the area her hand waves in first, though.

None of Zelda's arials have a lot of lag (outside of uair and dair, which she won't be using if you're far away anyhow), so you can't really teleport to punish her for those. Also, I wouldn't reccomend trying to hit someone with the air with Farore's Wind, unless you're recovering and they won't expect it. Following up with Farore's in the air is a bad idea, though.

Zelda is the opponent I fight most frequently. If you have any character requests or anything to add, I'd love to expand this list. Thanks for all the compliments and encouragement, everyone.

 

[popsofctown]

I don't like ledgewarping. It doesn't really sound specific enough to me. Sheik and Meta Knight can warp too can't they?
What's wrong with ledgewinding? Because that uses part of the name of the move, making it quicker to learn.
Whatever it is, i did it some yesterday and it was AWESOME!

 

[beren_cuthalion]

Great guide, Luthien!

 

[popsofctown]

i tried really hard to do a southeast ledgesteal, but i couldn't do it. I either fell off with no jumps, or didn't go far enough. You don't have to jump first do you?

 

[Luthien]

Okay, a couple of things:

1) Ledgestealing is REAL. I've done it, and I've discovered the trick to it. It's character specific. I'll make a list:

Vulnerable to Ledgestealing:
Mario
Bowser
Donkey Kong
Dedede
Metaknight
Olimar
Pikachu
Charizard
Squirtle
Ivysaur
Ness
Lucas
G&W
Yoshi

*At low percents, ledgestealing can lead into a Dair or Footstool jump if you choose not to grab the ledge.

Immune to ledgestealing:
Luigi
Peach
Diddy
Wario
Link
Zelda
Sheik
Ganondorf
Samus
Pit
Ice Climbers (WHY?! IT SHOULD WORK!!)
ROB
Kirby (WHY?!)
Fox
Falco
Wolf
C. Falcon
Lucario
Jiggs
Ike
Marth
Snake
Sonic

*You'd think this was bad, but they're worse off due to you being able to Bair right after reappearance. Suckers...

I wasn't really all that thorough. If someone wants to test the immune list, please feel free.

I don't like ledgewarping. It doesn't really sound specific enough to me. Sheik and Meta Knight can warp too can't they?
What's wrong with ledgewinding?

I thought about that, and I got varried results yesterday. The predominant one had something to do with farting. I'll have to go back and ask (I think it was Pwny or Ztarfish). Anyway, I personally like ledgwarping better, and MK and Sheik can't use this technique. They'll grab the ledge if they're lucky, but they won't get their jumps back or anything. Ledgewarping is fine... but we don't need it anyway. Ledgestealing works.

i tried really hard to do a southeast ledgesteal, but i couldn't do it. I either fell off with no jumps, or didn't go far enough. You don't have to jump first do you?

It's slightly more compicated, but you don't need to jump before you do. You CAN jump if you want, though. Just experiment with the distances some more.

 

[calicocal]

Sorry for the lack of video but my house mate has been being an a55hat. I bribed him with a McFlurry so tomorrow I should be able to make it.

 

[sFoster]

IMO there are more than 16 directions on FW. I don't know who came up with the 16 number..
If I balance myself on the far left edge of FD, so that zelda is standing on 1 foot i know it's always starting in the exact same position.

Maybe I am crazy, but from there it seems like I could get to about 4 different places between N and NE

 

[PwnyRide]

Heh. I've recorded some videos and sent them to someone who can upload them to youtube. They should be up soon. You'll be pleasantly surprised. :]

Very eagerly awaiting these videos! All this information will do me good when Brawl arrives

 

[Luthien]

IMO there are more than 16 directions on FW. I don't know who came up with the 16 number..
If I balance myself on the far left edge of FD, so that zelda is standing on 1 foot i know it's always starting in the exact same position.

Maybe I am crazy, but from there it seems like I could get to about 4 different places between N and NE

Thank you. This is something I've been meaning to bring up.

This has been bothering me for a while. Indeed, on the ground teleporting experiments have given me different results. Sometiemes when I South-southeast teleport, I only move a very short distance away. Sometimes I would move a slightly longer distance away. Sometimes I wouldn't move at all. These differences were even more dynamic in Melee.

However, I wasn't sure about whether or not my eyes were fooling me, or if it was controllable. I still can't say for certain, but I do indeed belive there are 5 direction sensitive areas of the South-southeast direction; no movement (south-south-south-southeast), minimal movement (south-south-southeast), slight movement (south-southeast), just short of a semi-considerable movement (east-south-southeast), and just short of a southeast teleport (east-east-southeast). Over the months, minimal movement and semi-considerable movement seemed the haredest directions to fly. This also applies to the South-southwest input area, and the north-northeast/north-northwest areas as well.

This didn't seem like that big of an issue at the time, and I thought that posting the sixteen directions was confusing enough. However, I'll look into this further; I've been thinking about it for a while, and you've convinced me that it is something I ought to research more thoroughly. Try for yourself; I'll get a lame diagram up eventually, I'm sure. As of now, I'll just make up a simple concept:

Point where you want to go. Pretend the octagon control stick thing is actually a circle.

Something else I've been meaning to bring up is camera movement while using Farore's Wind (Drake reminded me some time ago, and I'm determined not to leave the computer before I get this in). The camera moves when Zelda does, at least in 1v1 matches (usually in FFA's as well, if Zelda's the opponent on the edge of the stage). It can be a giveaway sometimes. Keep that in mind.

There's something else I've been meaning to say... but I've forgotten. I'll try to remember what it is later. Sorry.

 

[Nakayorz]

Ah. I see you found my other farore's wind video. I actually wasn't planning on posting the other one here since they were choreographed so similarly, but now that they are both here I would like to say that although the wario footage was better synced with the music I felt it was the lesser of the two videos even though the other one was extremely CP heavy.

I feel this way for exactly the reason that you mention. If you are predictable with farore's wind like I am in the wario footage you will get punished if you get shielded/power shielded.

I'd also like to add that if you get too aggressive and predictable with farore's wind while returning from above the stage you will eat a lot of up-air KOs on entry.

Darkmusician has found some interesting applications to using farore's to spike people by bouncing them off the bottom of the stage which is showcased in his just for fun exhibition where he does it to dedede.

A general rule of thumb to follow is don't aim to hit them unless you know you will connect or punish. The example that Luthien uses with din's fire is a good one as is using it vs quick draw which is demonstrated in my video.

There are some scenarios at medium percentages where you can hit someone upwards on entry and exit where they DI to for an up smash but again don't get predictable with it, although it's safer than hitting them on exit they can still anticipate and hit you out of it before you enter.

One last thing that I'd like to mention is that you can kinda use farore's wind like a lesser version of quickdraw. As long as you're mixing it up and keep your opponent guessing they won't know if you're going to reappear in front or behind them so if you aim to whiff you could catch them with any attack you want or grab them out of the shield that they put up thinking you would try to hit them. The move does have recovery but it's short enough that you can still catch people off guard if you whiff it.

 

[outofdashdwz]

Wow, very comprehensive guide. Nice.

 

[Zone]

Pretty Solid Guide luthien ^^; Quite the researcher you are. I noticed all the stuff you already posted. I'm just too lazy to post stuff about brawl Zelda. I also once had half a list accumulated so everyone could know the exact percents that you could start Farores wind next to an opponent, and finish it off near them. Combo'ing them twice with one Up+B. How useful would that be? Prolly not very but good to know all your tools. But I got lazy with that and realized there are like 37 characters, and said "Screw this." Sorry guys >.>'. I like Melee too much, so I'm not paying an incredible amount of attention to brawl.

Keep up the good work Luthien

 

[goodkid]

This is great information, but incredibly hard to do. I've been practicing, and I need a lot of work on Farore.

 

[Lingy]

I can't seem to tell the difference between North-Northeast and Northeast, etc. Is it because I'm using it from the ground?

 

[Luthien]

I can't seem to tell the difference between North-Northeast and Northeast, etc. Is it because I'm using it from the ground?

No. There's no difference between teleporting from the ground and in the air, unless there's something that gets in your way (a hard surface). You should be seeing differences; they're there, albeit a little harder to see. Try comparing Northeast to East-northeast. That one's pretty obvious.

 

[TheLake]

Farores wind is awsome. Luthien is the farores wind master.

That is all.

 

[Lingy]

I knew about those, it's just that some were barely noticeable.

Thanks for the guide though, it's cleared up a lot of things

 

[S2]

I've been practicing ledge-stealing and that's actually a really cool find.

For people who want to practice, go to Battlefield. On each side of the "middle" portion of the grounds design there are two little circles (under the inner parts of the right and left floating platorms). If you stand in the circles almost as far as in (towards the middle of the stage) as you can, you're in a good spot where you can practice, but coming up too short won't kill you.

Keep in mind though, a directly righ/left teleport (depending on side) will still send you too your doom.

Hopefully the vid comes up pretty soon. It'd be nice if there was some practical applications in video form, since the technique is a very high risk move that most players aren't going to use without a lot of practice.

 

[Luthien]

Farores wind is awsome. Luthien is the farores wind master.

That is all.

Those were some great matches, Lake. We need to do that again some time.

I've been practicing ledge-stealing and that's actually a really cool find.

For people who want to practice, go to Battlefield. On each side of the "middle" portion of the grounds design there are two little circles (under the inner parts of the right and left floating platorms). If you stand in the circles almost as far as in (towards the middle of the stage) as you can, you're in a good spot where you can practice, but coming up too short won't kill you.

Keep in mind though, a directly righ/left teleport (depending on side) will still send you too your doom.

Actually, I find an easier landmark to be the sundial in the center of the stage. Stand just behind the part that creates the shadow (it's just a straight vertical line of rock) and teleport across the stage east/west (whatever direction is the LONGER teleport), and it should work every time. Create landmarks and memorize them for every stage. I'll get some pictures up if someone asks, but only if I get a request (I'm feeling lazy right now).

Hopefully the vid comes up pretty soon. It'd be nice if there was some practical applications in video form, since the technique is a very high risk move that most players aren't going to use without a lot of practice.

Yes, I hope it comes up too. Maybe Calicocal might beat me to it.

At any rate, I find the move to be of very small risk, actually. Once you find the spot, you only need to practice a few times and you've got it down; it gets less tricky the more you do it. I'm currently working on getting the right distance after jumping/dashing/etc... so it's easier to apply it in battle.

By the way, if you ever think someone's going to try to grab the ledge without using their third jump, Ledgesteal and uair right away. SO satisfying.

 

[S2]

I'll have to try you're way then

I was getting pretty good from the spots I was doing it from, but if you're way is safer then I'm going with that (it probably is).

After placing 2nd in a tournament recently (boo for not 1st, but all matches were uber close) I've decided to try and incorporate this technique more into real matches. Finding new way to expand my edge-guarding game. Of course, I'm going to practice some more so I don't start killing myself in the heat of battle.

 

[Tyr_03]

Hey I don't think this is terribly important but something to keep in mind as far as the random specifics of Farore's Wind. If you use Farore's Wind at the peak of your knockback you get a small upward boost. It's easiest to see if you try it on spikes. Maybe an anti-juggling technique? Or just to space yourself better for a sweetspot maybe. I dunno. Also I was wondering why sometimes using farore's wind in the air seems to halt my momentum and other times it continues until the point that I teleport?

 

[Luthien]

Hey I don't think this is terribly important but something to keep in mind as far as the random specifics of Farore's Wind. If you use Farore's Wind at the peak of your knockback you get a small upward boost. It's easiest to see if you try it on spikes. Maybe an anti-juggling technique? Or just to space yourself better for a sweetspot maybe. I dunno. Also I was wondering why sometimes using farore's wind in the air seems to halt my momentum and other times it continues until the point that I teleport?

THANK YOU.

This is what I kept forgetting to add.

When you get hit, use your second jump and FW about the same time. You'll get a very decent dose of extra distance, which is great for retreating to stop juggling. This tactic is especially useful on large, flat stages (i.e. Bridge of Eldin).

You won't get any momentum if your second jump is gone. If you have your second jump and use Farore's Wind, your momentum will stop because you've actually used your second jump first when you pressed "Up" for the up-b command. If you have your second jump and just tilt your controller "Up" (think utilt vs uair vs usmash), Zelda will keep her previous momentum because you didn't use her second jump when you tilted (not pressed) upwards. If you've been hit just before, hitting up and FW will amplify the distance greatly.

 

[sFoster]

your momentum will stop because you've actually used your second jump first when you pressed "Up" for the up-b command. If you have your second jump and just tilt your controller "Up" (think utilt vs uair vs usmash), Zelda will keep her previous momentum because you didn't use her second jump when you tilted (not pressed) upwards.

Wow..

You can also go to your controls, and turn off tilt jump.
This way 'up' no longer doubles as a jump button, and you can do moves in peace

 

[Tyr_03]

well the thing is that you don't even need to jump to get the boost if it's at the peak of your knockback. Tested with B-stick to be sure. So your extra jump might not be doing anything at all. The same thing happens with Lucas's PK Thunder.

 

[Luthien]

Wow..

You can also go to your controls, and turn off tilt jump.
This way 'up' no longer doubles as a jump button, and you can do moves in peace

Actually, I think it's easier to keep it on. That way I just fall until I get where I want to be, and then I don't have to worry about casting FW early to make up for the long spin-time before the actual teleport takes place. Stopping my momentum with Up is easier for me than with Y or X; less finger movement, so it's faster. But whatever floats your boat.

Pretty Solid Guide luthien ^^; Quite the researcher you are. I noticed all the stuff you already posted. I'm just too lazy to post stuff about brawl Zelda. I also once had half a list accumulated so everyone could know the exact percents that you could start Farores wind next to an opponent, and finish it off near them. Combo'ing them twice with one Up+B. How useful would that be? Prolly not very but good to know all your tools. But I got lazy with that and realized there are like 37 characters, and said "Screw this." Sorry guys >.>'. I like Melee too much, so I'm not paying an incredible amount of attention to brawl.

Keep up the good work Luthien

Thanks, Zone.

Farore's wind comboing is hard enough to do on the sandbag while waiting for the wifi match to start. I doubt it's worth the effort to go through every character to find the percents you can do this, especially if they can just DI out of it. Sad to hear you aren't liking Brawl. If you ever feel differently, I'd love to go a few rounds with you on wifi. Thanks again for the compliments.

 

[Lingy]

Hey I don't think this is terribly important but something to keep in mind as far as the random specifics of Farore's Wind. If you use Farore's Wind at the peak of your knockback you get a small upward boost. It's easiest to see if you try it on spikes. Maybe an anti-juggling technique? Or just to space yourself better for a sweetspot maybe. I dunno. Also I was wondering why sometimes using farore's wind in the air seems to halt my momentum and other times it continues until the point that I teleport?

Wow, I was wondering about why that happened. Thanks so much for clearing that up

EDIT: Also, I have a question that doesn't really apply with just Zelda, but sometimes I jump a lot farther than normal. Anyone know why?

 

[Luthien]

EDIT: Also, I have a question that doesn't really apply with just Zelda, but sometimes I jump a lot farther than normal. Anyone know why?

Do you know what happens when you do? Like, are you right on top of your opponent's head and when you jump? Because that's a footstool jump, which the only logical answer I can give you for jumping higher...

Anyway, I have a theory as for why Ledgestealing/Ledgewarping works. It all has to do with post-Farore's momentum. When Zelda reappears on the ground, she does indeed slide a little due to Brawl's lack of traction (this is why Ledgestealing/Ledgwarping doesn't work in Melee). When you appear on the ledge and slide, Zelda will reappear, but the animation of sliding off of the stage seems to take priority to Zelda's reappearing animation; it interrupts it.

This is why you can reappear different distances from the ledge (albeit very small distances) and have the Ledgesteal/Ledgewarp still occur a fraction of a second later/earlier (depeding on exactly how close to the ledge you reappeared).

However, I'm not sure if this theory is correct, because that means that Ledgewarping should apply to Metaknight and Sheik. I checked (not too thoroughly), and Ledgewarping does not work for them. I seem to recall dying as Metaknight every attempt, and having Sheik grab the ledge at best. Neither get their jumps back, and Sheik can ledgehug faster than teleporting due to the teleport's lack of distance.

Any better ideas?

 

[Tyr_03]

I don't understand why it doesn't work on platforms without a magnetic edge. Maybe that has something to do with it? I've seen videos of Samus's Up B grabbing the ledge and then instantly letting go and allowing her to do another Up B. Never really understood it and I can't find it again. Just a thought anyhow. The sliding bit of it makes sense and would go further in explaining why it wouldn't work as Sheik atleast because it seems like she has a lot more traction after the move than Zelda.

 

[Luthien]

I don't understand why it doesn't work on platforms without a magnetic edge. Maybe that has something to do with it? I've seen videos of Samus's Up B grabbing the ledge and then instantly letting go and allowing her to do another Up B. Never really understood it and I can't find it again. Just a thought anyhow. The sliding bit of it makes sense and would go further in explaining why it wouldn't work as Sheik atleast because it seems like she has a lot more traction after the move than Zelda.

By magnetic I assume you mean grabbable? Because ledgeWARPING works on any platform, you just don't grab it post-teleport. LedgeSTEALING requires the ledge to be stealable, though. Ledgestealing is Ledgewarping taken to a new level.