A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[Remzi]

Lol I posted the vid as a joke. Though it was pretty nasty.

 

[Pierce7d]

lol get ***** Steel. Sheller too good.

Uh, I haven't played Vex in a LONG frikken time (his Bowser is sick by the way, I'm legitly scared of it).

DO NOT shy away from your ftilt. It's SO easy to punish Dancing Blade, just shield. That being said, ftilt angled either straight or up will **** Marth's face if he approaches from the air. You need your ftilt. Marth's will not be ftilt heavy, because our Ftilt has pretty ugly after lag in comparison to other options we have on the ground. If you shield it, you can counter attack.

You also need to watch out for Nair. Marth really can't kill for his life. He MUST tipper to K.O. Bowser if your DI is any kind of decent. I might be able to gimp you, but it's really stupidly hard, and I'll either have to spike, or get you to 150%. That being said, Marth's NAIR is an excellent tool. I tend to attack Bowser's forehead with Nair, and pull away, to chip at his shield. The second time I do this consecutively, if I aimed it right, the second hit of the Nair WILL shield stab, and I'll tipper K.O. you.

Also, Boswer is a huge target, and Marth is awesome at juggling. Make sure your DI and Smash DI are TIGHT before entering this match-up, or I will combo you like it's Melee.

Your Fair is also very good. Just because ours is better doesn't mean don't use yours. A little Klaw Bouncing is good too, because it messes with Marth's spacing, and forces him to play more aggressively, which Bowser likes a lot. Both characters have a Dragon Punch, so be careful of getting K.O.ed by Dolphin Slash. You want to DI it UP. The most important thing is to not be hyper-predictable.

If you shield a Dancing Blade, I would advise instead of Fortressing everytime, shield drop dtilt sometimes. Bowser's dtilt is frikken strong, and unlike fortress, can go a long way to gimping Marth if he doesn't DI it right. Also, the DI for fortress and Dtilt are opposite, so a Marth expecting fortress and suddenly getting blasted by Dtilt can really get screwed up.

IIRC, your Uair is amazing. Bait an airdodge, and score hyper early K.O.s with this.

Don't fsmash at the edge. We have counter. Now, if you see a Marth about to counter, just charge the fsmash, and voila, homemade rapesauce. Don't charge prematurely though, or our counter is guaranteed. Dtilt is a lovely edgeguard option.

I love this match, because it really is the knight vs. the dragon. Merry Christmas everyone!

 

[DemonFart]

wow bowser doesn't really have a lot going for him

 

[LinIsKorean]

Also, Boswer is a huge target, and Marth is awesome at juggling. Make sure your DI and Smash DI are TIGHT before entering this match-up, or I will combo you like it's Melee.

Great stuff in your post, but I had a quick question, during F-air chains and such should I be Smash/DI-ing to the left? If not which direction? Thanks... XD

 

[Blistering Speed]

Other boards opinion of Bowser's matchup

Here’s what the other boards are saying about Bowser, feel free to add to OP.

Captain Falcon
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204097
60:40
Diddy Kong
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181638
20:80
Game and Watch
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174763&page=16
(Current discussion!)
Ganondorf
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202473
55:45
Ice Climbers
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188700
20:80
Jigglypuff
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=210012
45:55
Kirby
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=195032
30:70
Lucas
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183767
40:60
Marth
http://www.smashboards.com/showthrea...29#post6187429
40:60
Meta Knight
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=179463
40:60
Ness
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188116
40:60
Samus
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183602
20:80
Shiek
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741
50:50 (this hasn’t been discussed yet but it’s Ankoku’s educated opinion).
Shiek/Zelda
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=174741
40:60 (see Shiek)
Toon Link
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169292
30:70
Wario
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196010
30:70
Wolf
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=198757
45:55
Yoshi
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201922
40:60

That is every character which has discussed Bowser, some are obviously very fleeting look overs. The ratio’s also prove that most of the Brawl community doesn’t know **** about Bowser or are stubborn and wish to remain ignorant.

I will edit as the matchups are discussed/re-discussed.

 

[MrEh]

That is every character which has discussed Bowser, some are obviously very fleeting look overs. The ratio’s also prove that most of the Brawl community doesn’t know **** about Bowser or are stubborn and wish to remain ignorant

Diddy and Samus ratios are totally hilarious. Wario, Kirby and TLink are pretty funny too. All of them need some actual discussion versus all of this "LOL HE'S SLOW AND HEAVY AND HE'S EASILY GIMPED" crap. The information is probably outdated, but still...


So, what do you guys think the ratio for this matchup is? Something like 40-60?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think it's 55/45 Marths favour I don't think Marth has any significant advantages except for the fact that he might have better stage choices...

 

[MrEh]

I think it's 55/45 Marths favour I don't think Marth has any significant advantages except for the fact that he might have better stage choices...

55/45 seems fairly reasonable, but we need to know what some of the Marth mains think.

As for stage choices, how about Norfair? That always seems to work in Bowser's advantage. No gimping and lots of platforms makes Bowser happy...

 

[LinIsKorean]

60:40 Marth imo. It's not close enough to call it a 55:45.

 

[SuSa]

60:40

I main Random so I main Marth and Bowser.

Marth has some issues spacing, firebreath can totally **** up our recovery, but we can 'combo' relatively easy, and if we get a spike it's normally a stock. Also countering Fsmash really helps because it takes forever to do.

Bowser has issues avoiding some hits, Shieldbreaker messes with him living in his shield, but he can live for a while so long as he isn't spiked by Marth....

:mewtwo:

 

[Liquid Gen]

60:40

I main Random so I main Marth and Bowser.

Marth has some issues spacing, firebreath can totally **** up our recovery, but we can 'combo' relatively easy, and if we get a spike it's normally a stock. Also countering Fsmash really helps because it takes forever to do.

Bowser has issues avoiding some hits, Shieldbreaker messes with him living in his shield, but he can live for a while so long as he isn't spiked by Marth....

:mewtwo:

I completely agree with this post.

60:40 is about right. I played a Marth today, and discovered that since his aerials **** ours, defense is the best option (shame since I'm used to mixing it up).

Wait for the Marth to get aggressive, then they get sloppy. They start Fairing your shield, ready for an Up b. Also, if your opponent likes to shield after a grab release, grab release him into a jab cancel side b or another grab, since he'll probably shield after the jab. Complete ****.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I completely agree with this post.

60:40 is about right. I played a Marth today, and discovered that since his aerials **** ours, defense is the best option (shame since I'm used to mixing it up).

Wait for the Marth to get aggressive, then they get sloppy. They start Fairing your shield, ready for an Up b. Also, if your opponent likes to shield after a grab release, grab release him into a jab cancel side b or another grab, since he'll probably shield after the jab. Complete ****.

Or just chaingrab him instead of grab release jabbing, I believe the matchup is 45:55, marth might beat us in the air, but we control the ground, and klaw jumping is also full of mindgames. Bowser's ftilt outranges everything marth has if I remember correctly and we have a projectile(not a very good projectile) that makes it so hes forced to approach.

 

[Liquid Gen]

But don't forget Marth can Dolphin out of our fire breath, making it highly ineffective.. Unless of course, the Marth doesn't know, lulz.

 

[MrEh]

Bowser's ftilt outranges everything marth has if I remember correctly and we have a projectile(not a very good projectile) that makes it so hes forced to approach.

Bowser's Ftilt outranges Marth's Fsmash and Fair, if that means anything.

 

[Steel]

Marth outranges bowser on the ground.

 

[MrEh]

Marth outranges bowser on the ground.

Huh...

I could have sworn that Bowser's Ftilt outranges Marth's Ftilt and Fsmash ever so slightly. ><

 

[Steel]

Marth's f-tilt outranges Bowser's.

Just saying.

And if ftilt outranges it.. you can bet fsmash does.

 

[MrEh]

And if ftilt outranges it.. you can bet fsmash does.

I wish there was a reliable way to test hitboxes in this game.

I might just go through the horrors that is video recording and watch everything frame by frame. ><

 

[Liquid Gen]

When in doubt, Up B out of shield, lulz.

 

[Nitros14]

Huh...

I could have sworn that Bowser's Ftilt outranges Marth's Ftilt and Fsmash ever so slightly. ><

Nah that's the problem, Marth's ftilt outranges anything Bowser does on the ground except Fire Breath which is like screaming "dancing blade me!"

 

[MrEh]

Nah that's the problem, Marth's ftilt outranges anything Bowser does on the ground except Fire Breath which is like screaming "dancing blade me!"

Fsmash outranges it, but that's just a novelty. (or the most manly punishing move ever)

 

[Nitros14]

Fsmash outranges it, but that's just a novelty. (or the most manly punishing move ever)

Well quite.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

^ indeed

if marth ftilts a lot run up - upb oos

 

[Blistering Speed]

Marth's F Tilt isn't safe though because of the after lag right?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Marth has a sword.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Marth has a sword.

Bowser has claws and a fist.

 

[MrEh]

Marth has a sword.

Bowser has claws and a fist.

I lol'ed at both of these.


So I'm hearing some 45-55, some 40-60. I'm leaning more towards 45-55, just because the matchup isn't all that bad for Bowser. (For me anyways.) Hey, it's always up for debate though.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Marth's F Tilt isn't safe though because of the after lag right?

nothings safe against bowser

 

[Jim Morrison]

MrEh, I like your signature. And I think Marth's double F-air is pretty hard. It just keeps coming and makes you feel like giving up . Did you make an export thread for marth input O_o?

BTW, you guys need a new Bowser guide, this is from March lol.

 

[Hixxy]

MrEh, I like your signature. And I think Marth's double F-air is pretty hard. It just keeps coming and makes you feel like giving up . Did you make an export thread for marth input O_o?

BTW, you guys need a new Bowser guide, this is from March lol.

Sliq was somewhat in the process of writing one, but I believe that it was deleted.

 

[Steel]

ftilt isn't his poke move though, dtilt is. dtilt has longer range than ftilt and is faster and has iasa frames.

GF2tw pretty much hit the nail on the head with a tiny sentence.

marth has a sword, you don't.

60-40

 

[~ Gheb ~]

marth has a sword, you don't.

but Booza has t3h f1r3!!!

45/55 =P

 

[Liquid Gen]

Hmm.

As it appears most of the Bowser mains vouch for 45-55, and the Marth mains 60-40.

Reasons being for Bowser, as it stands:

-Bowser has UpBOOS, and can punish Marth for careless aggressiveness.
-Powerful attacks, and Marth is koable relatively fast due to his being a middleweight.
-Ftilt, which supposedly outranges all of Marth's attacks (?)
-If Marth so much as misses an attack Bowser is ready to punish.
-Several grab releases on Marth, not to mention jab cancel.

Now, for Marth:

-Obvious speed advantage over Bowser.
-More combo potential than Bowser.
-ALL of his attacks are long range (lolsword)
-Bowser is a big target, thus easy to hit and juggle.
-Basically immune to firebreath since he can UPb out of it.

Now both characters have something good going for them, but as it stands now I'd have to say it is 60-40, but just barely.

However, it is worth noting that a patient Bowser can easily win against a Marth who just throws out attacks in some attempt to be aggressive; thus giving Bowser the advantage against Marth.

But, if Bowser is made to approach (why you would do that, idk) Marth will tear you apart. From one bad approach by Bowser, Bowser will have a good 40-50 percent on him from one mistake due to Marth's chainable attacks.

 

[Steel]

Well, granted we're talking about a smart Marth he won't just be throwing out random attacks. Marth can turtle well too and force bowser to approach him.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Well, granted we're talking about a smart Marth he won't just be throwing out random attacks. Marth can turtle well too and force bowser to approach him.

Right, but then the Bowser (or at least, what I would do) is shieldcancel my dash if I predicted some FAirs or NAir, and punish for that. But, a grab by Marth is also possible, in which case I would either try to roll or sidestep, and then punish.

But it takes a lot of prediction to make that even possible, so yeh, the matchup is still 60-40 Marth.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

@ liquid gen, marth is a lightweight

lighter than peach

 

[Liquid Gen]

Osht-, meant to be put lightweight. My bad.

 

[deepseadiva]

Peach is discussing Bowser this week!

For in depth matchup analysis: Weekly Match-Up Thread

For quicky stage talk: Peachy Counterpicks

Be sure to at least glance our posts over for horrible mistakes, but at the moment it seems like a solid 60/40 Peach advantage.

 

[MrEh]

Since the difference between 45-55 and 40-60 is really minor, it really doesn't make that big of a difference which one we go with.

43-57 then? XD


In all seriousness though, I say it's a 40-60 since it really doesn't matter all that much, and this discussion isn't really going anywhere.

 

[Nitros14]

Since the difference between 45-55 and 40-60 is really minor, it really doesn't make that big of a difference which one we go with.

43-57 then? XD


In all seriousness though, I say it's a 40-60 since it really doesn't matter all that much, and this discussion isn't really going anywhere.

I would say people saying it's 45-55 are seriously underestimating Marth. I can go with 40-60.