A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[Vex Kasrani]

I would say people saying it's 45-55 are seriously underestimating Marth. I can go with 40-60.

I don't underestimate Marth lol, I think it's more like people underestimate Bowser.

 

[Nitros14]

I don't underestimate Marth lol, I think it's more like people underestimate Bowser.

Which is a good thing the more they underestimate him the better we look when we win.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Which is a good thing the more they underestimate him the better we look when we win.

Yup, winning MM's with him is great when people don't expect him to be a threat.

 

[MrEh]

Yup, winning MM's with him is great when people don't expect him to be a threat.

Then we'll just list it as a 40-60 matchup for kicks. (The lower the better. Bwahahah)

I'll send Mmac a message to update the chart, and I'll update the OP.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Just put every matchup as 10-90 the other characters favour, especially if they can 'combo', because they can just combo us all day and then gimp us at ridiculously low percents. The only thing they have to watch out for the ground is D Smash because it's strong.

 

[Bowser King]

^^^Stop trolling the bowser boards. If you don't know anything about the match-up, it would be better if you didn't express your opinion. There are already enough people who underestimate bowser and say.....

"ZOMG!!!!11!one! Bowser is 100000-0 against ____ char111!!!"

-Bowser King

 

[Jim Morrison]

LOLOL boozer is big n an easy combo-on char lolol 120-0 Marth.

 

[Bowser King]

That's basically what happens

-Bowser King

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'm gonna try and pick up Bowser now. But yea, I'm kinda unknowing about Bowser, so I'll just state the obvious. Bowser doesn't have the range Marth has. His attacks are pretty longranged, and F-throw to tipper F-smash will work at >10%. When you get f-thrown low, DI towards Marth. Double F-air is a pain, tell me what you're gonna do beside shield it? He can C-stick it and retreat it and not be shieldgrabbed.

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Bowser has just as much range than Marth does. For example, Bowser's fsmash and ftilt both beat Marth's fsmash 1 on 1. I've done both of those to a Marth who I consider pretty good (and not just once; I've done these several times). Keep in mind this is in wifi lag too, where timing and spacing is much harder to do. Bowser also has Firebreath that outranges everything Marth has, but it shouldn't be used too much because he can just DI into it and Dolphin Slash you (I think this has already been said though).

SH double fair isn't really a big problem at all once you get powershielding down. I'm not really sure since I can't powershield consistently (again, I pretty much only play in wifi lag), but if you powershield Marth's first fair, can you ftilt/jab him or even maybe fortress him before he does the second? You might even be able to powershield the first fair to a klaw or dash grab or something crazy, but I don't know

Regardless, SH double fair is just one less KO move Marth has, because a tippered fair can kill if you are near the ledges and at higher percents. Other than like, tippered fsmash or a dair spike, Marth has nothing that will kill you before like 150%. The only thing you will have to worry about is Dolphin Slash, but even that isn't hard to DI. I mean, come on, we play Bowser. We use our upb OoS all the time. If you can't expect an upb OoS from Marth when you are at a higher percent, you shouldn't be playing Bowser

I think it should be 45-55 personally. Every Marth I play against feels like an even matchup. But again, wifi lag probably takes a part in this, and it could be that my opponents just don't know how to play against Bowser or something, so I'm fine with 40-60 too whatever

 

[Jim Morrison]

Marths D-tilt is consideribly faster than his F-tilt and definitly than Boozers F-smash/F-tilt, so outranging him isn't much of a problem. However, Bowser is a tank and shall live. Also, I don't know if his size makes it harder or easier to tipper F-smash, but still. And yeah, Marths OoS Dolphin Slash is a pain.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

you know, we can upb oos too >.>

and fsmash isn't really for speed, its for when you try to poke us, because the drawback dodges and punishes

 

[Liquid Gen]

Marth can UpBOOS, however, the ending lag on it is terrible if we dodge it or shield or whatnot.

So it's much less useful than ours, though still marginally useful I suppose.

I just wouldn't try it too often, lulz.

 

[MrEh]

I guess we're done with Marth now. OP has been updated and we're now discussing Wario.

Wario is serious business. Go!

 

[Liquid Gen]

ok.

Grab release chain grab. You win!

K, its really not that easy. Wario's aerials are very fast, plus his aerial maneuverability, so it'll be hard to grab him once.

HOWEVER, once you grab him at around... 80-90 percent, grab release into up smash. Pretty much a guaranteed kill for Bowser.

 

[MrEh]

HOWEVER, once you grab him at around... 80-90 percent, grab release into up smash. Pretty much a guaranteed kill for Bowser.

It's actually higher then that, about 110% on FD with good DI.

I play a Wario main like every day, so I know that how heavy the guy is.

 

[Liquid Gen]

The fat *******!

I play Bassem6 every so often, I usually killed him around 80 or so with the USmash/.

Then again, it was on the right side of Yoshi's Island, so that most likely affected it.

But yeh, until you get a grab on Wario, this matchup isn't very fun.

 

[Nitros14]

Wario's tendency to always be in the air and his obnoxious bite make him a lot harder to grab than most characters. He's great at baiting and has a pretty good recovery. Grab release smashes are all well and good but considering the difficulty in actually grabbing him (especially since they know to avoid grabs and Wario is pretty good at it) I think the advantage here still goes to Wario, but not by too much.

 

[MrEh]

Wario's tendency to always be in the air and his obnoxious bite make him a lot harder to grab than most characters. He's great at baiting and has a pretty good recovery.

I know...the Wario main I fight uses Bite a lot. He knows that if I try to shieldgrab him, he can just hop towards me and open his mouth. It's very sickening to fight a Wario that knows how to fight a Bowser properly. (I fight this guy like, 10 times a day.)

 

[Liquid Gen]

So what are we leaning on here? 60-40, or maybe 55-45?

 

[LinIsKorean]

I'd say 60:40, but I haven't played any Wario mains so all I have is general knowledge.

That picture of Wario is really creepy. Poor Kirby! ]:

 

[PhantomX]

What are you talking about? I fukken saved that picture, it's amazing!

 

[MorphedChaos]

What are you talking about? I fukken saved that picture, it's amazing!

I Know! Its epic as all hell! Out of all the forums, I respect the bowser ones the most just because of that.

I'd say its 50:50 or 55:45 in Wario's favor, 70:30 if Bowser doesn't do that release CG on Wario.

Wario owns Bowser in the air, and Bowser owns Wario on the ground besides Wario's Fsmash, Wario can do a Uair on bowser even when Bowser is on the ground due to Bowser's bulk, and it KO's at around I think 130/140. Wario can combo bowser to hell and back, and Wario has a CG on Bowser too (Or Tech chase, your choice of what you call it.) Not to mention how difficult it is to Grab Wario, and lots of Wario's can break when you jab, forcing a ground break I think? (I can never remember.) Where Wario can jump or Sidestep your grab. Not to mention Bite eats your Fsmash, Dsmash, Usmash, and Ftilt if the Wario spaces it correctly.

Still though, Bowser's CG is really harsh on Wario, so its about 50:50 or 55:45 in Wario's favor. Not to mention, Dthrow to Waft, which kills at 60%.

Sorry, I'm a little Bias, but I've never had troubles with CG bowsers.

 

[MrEh]

What are you talking about? I fukken saved that picture, it's amazing!

Yeah, I think that picture summarizes how hard Wario *****. I cut up the picture slightly in order to make it the right size though. If you want a full size, you can find it here.

I Know! Its epic as all hell! Out of all the forums, I respect the bowser ones the most just because of that.

In all of the matchup threads, everyone had a really lame picture of Wario. I searched the entire internet to find a picture that shows how epic Wario is. I believe I found a winner.

I'd say its 50:50 or 55:45 in Wario's favor, 70:30 if Bowser doesn't do that release CG on Wario.

The chaingrab is really one of the few things that Bowser can do really. ><

and lots of Wario's can break when you jab, forcing a ground break I think? (I can never remember.)

Bowser can grab Wario even if he ground releases. So yeah, Wario is proper screwed if he gets grabbed.

Still though, Bowser's CG is really harsh on Wario, so its about 50:50 or 55:45 in Wario's favor. Not to mention, Dthrow to Waft, which kills at 60%.

I think it might be more in Wario's favor, but that's really because the Wario main I fight is essentially the anti-Bowser.

Sorry, I'm a little Bias, but I've never had troubles with CG bowsers.

How many Bowsers do people see in the first place? XD

 

[Blistering Speed]

Rofl at bowser king's sarcasmometer being broken.

If there was ever going to be a character that could be infinite CGed, Wario is the most suited to getting around it. Thanks to his aerial mobility and his Bite, he can bait and punish grab attempts very well. When you know there's a huge payoff from the grab, make sure you don't become overzealous in trying to get it as it leads to predictibility.Just like virtually every Bowser matchup, the key is to be defensive and opportunistic. Upward angled F Tilt, spaced jabs etc. all work wonders. O and though it may be stating the obvious, don't go up against Wario in the air except for the occasional spaced F Air, you'll get *****.

 

[PhantomX]

Our advantage really isn't that great. Bite wrecks you guys, as does juggling in general, but you guys have Whirling Fortress if you can't get a grab off, which is a move full of gayness and incredible.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Bowsers Up B is soo annoying, but thats the only thing you really have on Wario (but its huge), if I wanna win though, I'll just jump on my other main, D3, and infinite you til the cows come home XD

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Does air release -> sh upair work? Because if it does, it kills earlier than upsmash. I'm only asking because I tried it once on a friend (who doesn't main Wario) and it worked.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Does air release -> sh upair work? Because if it does, it kills earlier than upsmash. I'm only asking because I tried it once on a friend (who doesn't main Wario) and it worked.

Perhaps.

When Wario jump breaks, he has a small time frame to double jump out of it, regardless of it being close to the ground.

If you were to short hop up air immediately after the break, and the Wario decides to jump, you might intercept the Wario whilst he jumps.

EDIT: It looks as though you can hit him with UAir without a jump, but it has to be spaced right. Not 100% sure it will work all the time however.

 

[NinjaLink]

Grab release to bowser bomb should work, as should aerial claw, fair and alot of other moves.

 

[Jim Morrison]

How much damage would firebreath deal when Wario is in at about halfway and wario has very good and quick DI?

 

[MrEh]

Our advantage really isn't that great. Bite wrecks you guys, as does juggling in general, but you guys have Whirling Fortress if you can't get a grab off, which is a move full of gayness and incredible.

Because Wario's range is low, he's sort of susceptible to the Fortress. I think retreating Fairs and Dairs might help out though.

Does air release -> sh upair work?

Don't think so. I think the only character that works on is Jigglypuff. I can check to get 100% confirmation though.

How much damage would firebreath deal when Wario is in at about halfway and wario has very good and quick DI?

About 10% or maybe less.

 

[PhantomX]

A well timed Fortress beats our down airs, unfortunately.... and fair is a dangerous option for us b/c it has piss poor shieldstun, meaning a free grab and death from you guys, lol.

 

[MrEh]

A well timed Fortress beats our down airs, unfortunately.... and fair is a dangerous option for us b/c it has piss poor shieldstun, meaning a free grab and death from you guys, lol.

Hmm good point.

What do you guys think the matchup is? 45-55 in Wario's favor? I know the infinite is there, but Wario just ***** Bowser in the air.

 

[MorphedChaos]

I say go 50:50, or 45:55, Either seem right to me.

 

[Liquid Gen]

45-55 Wario. I don't say 50-50 becaus of Wario's epic aerials.

Still, it's neutral.

 

[Blistering Speed]

Lawl Ankoku would crazy on your ***, 45-55 isn't neutral, that's the point of it being 45-55 and not 50-50.

Phantom X, surely it doesn't matter about F Air's shield stun if you can DI away in time so it's unshieldgrabbable.

 

[Liquid Gen]

You do know 45/55 is still considered neutral?

Right?

 

[MorphedChaos]

You do know 45/55 is still considered neutral?

Right?

Well, it looks like Blistering Speed doesn't think so, go figure.

45:55, 50:50, Either one works, its still neutral.

 

[Low Rider1717]

I think the Boozer match-up with Wario is 45-55
but i gotta question
How is the ROB match-up 40-60?