A King's Quest For Respect: The Bowser Matchup Thread

[Red Arremer]

I'm, though, more for discussing a matchup that's suggested over going through the list step by step. If Kyte would like to discuss Link, we should discuss Link first, imo.

 

[Flayl]

I'm, though, more for discussing a matchup that's suggested over going through the list step by step. If Kyte would like to discuss Link, we should discuss Link first, imo.

Now you're getting it! :D

 

[Red Arremer]

Huh? O.o
What'cha mean?

 

[Flayl]

Going by what's available/shown to have interest rather than by a fixed order, like what I was talking about in the secondary thread.

 

[Red Arremer]

That's what I'm doing too, but in the secondary thread, the interest has been announced after the start of the discussion on Kirby. Breaking off the discussion on Kirby would be silly, so, as you can see, I made Toon Link subject of discussion now.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

I have two friends that are link mainers and kirby mainers. So i could help ou on both. They are both really good so i have seen what their current metagame is lol. Tlink i know very little about

 

[Flayl]

I'd like to point out that anybody who thinks Link is 40-60 and Falco a 45-55 is a hypocrite! :D

 

[B!squick]

Just watch out for Link's ZAir (sound familiar?) and while he may not have Marth's range, he's annoyingly quick. Off stage, just throw back airs until he goes away. And yes, I am paraphrasing slightly.

 

[Liquid Gen]

I guess were discussing LIIIINK then.

Ill help with PT later; I do live near Reflex (marginally).

A tournament will be here in oct, ill fit in a lot of games with him.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Wha Link can do to Bowser
Jab cancels are annoyingly effective Try fortressing out but easier said than done
Watchout for double bairs that might combo into a reverse utilt
Ziar is also effective and cancel into a grab or anything
He is an effective camper, able to rack up the damage from afar.
A good link will zair spam in your face and throw bombs, boomerands, and arrows at u while retreating
Once again his jab cancels can put bowser into a world of hyrulian pain
Uair and Dair have insane priority. FYI Links Uair outprioritizes Links Dair lol

What bowser can do to link
Bowser also has some mean jab cancelz. Jab to side b is a favorite of mine. Sometimes a jab cancel to jab to side b will work.
We can do some heavy damage regardless if he ground or air releases.
Firebreath will beat out arrows and boomerangs yay!!! Sadly, bombs swim through the fire like nothing and hit poor ol bowser on his snout.
As always we can always depend on us overpowering the opponent cuz we are Bowzer after all.
An of stage bair and fair will pretty much take him out. So much so that i refuse to edgehog a link. Just me, he is link so i give him some slack
A well spaced Utilt will beat out Links Dair yay!!! The timing is knda tricky cuz he might fastfall but an utilt will either trade or simply beat it out!
If a bowser has good di then link will ave a hard time killing bowser.

Links kill moves are uair dair dsmash fsmash. Upb can kill but it has to be on the edge and bowser has to have 120+
Bowser kil moves..... Too many to name lol
What u should do
Basically powershield through his barrage of bombs boomerangs and arrows. Watchout for links upboos cuz its not too shabby. But most links dont use it.
Watchout for jab cancel to downsmash cuz it can kill!! Link is really good at racking up damage then he can simply slay u with a well timed smash. Pin link, when his back is at the edge, with firebreath so that u can return the favor. Links fear the abyss below!!!

Platforms can help bowser with links projectiles but link, like bowser, can take advantage of the platforms.

Like melee, Link can combo the shrooms out of bowza
Bowser has to play it safe and strike when he has an opening. Patience is the key to this matchup. Overall, its a fun and close matchup.

 

[Cassius.]

Link sucks.

Well, not really. He's not as good at projectile pressuring as TL is, IMO. If you do fine against TL, Link will be a cinch, except you should expect to die a BIT earlier than usual. Basically, what goes with TL applies to Link also: Powershield and you'll be good.

I may be judging Link but I mean, it isn't really that difficult as long as you get your shields and powershields down. Get in the grab releases, and gimp if you can. Link's recovery is lol, although I wouldn't expect a smart Link to die quickly, unless he or she get's "Link'd" [as I call it when someone with a bad recovery gets gimped].

50-50?

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I'd like to point out that anybody who thinks Link is 40-60 and Falco a 45-55 is a hypocrite! :D

I think their both 45:55, Just because Falco is a better character doesnt mean the same rules apply on how they both play against Bowser.

 

[~Kyte]

dont expect a good link to die early, he has what i have seen to be ridiculous DI and can live through most of bowsers mid-strength moves to 160%

also a good link can hit you with a dair if you approach him in the air wrong, leading in a dead turtle, just things to note

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Oh yeah, you know what I am talking about.

 

[Flayl]

I think their both 45:55, Just because Falco is a better character doesnt mean the same rules apply on how they both play against Bowser.

I didn't say they played similarly, but Falco' SHDL is better at slowing bowser down than Link's ZAir, both of which are the most pivotal points of the bowser matchups. Falco's jab game is also better. Other than those 2 things, they are different.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

I have only played Kismets falco, total **** if u havent figured it out, last year and i learned two things: falco phantasm is broken, grab releasez are win for bowzer.

 

[Flayl]

Yeah, forgot to add Link gets owned by grab release just as hard as Falco does.

 

[GreenFox]

44:55 link zair ***** bowser and his projectiles keep a beating on him and make it very hard to approach.

 

[Cassius.]

44:55 link zair ***** bowser and his projectiles keep a beating on him and make it very hard to approach.

Powershield? Blocking Link's projectiles isn't that difficult...I have a harder time with TL. I'd agree it's probably even or 45:55

 

[Shök]

Is the front page ever going to have the character summaries?

 

[Cassius.]

When MrEh/the OP owner updates it, yeah.

 

[B!squick]

We were going to do everyone then handle the summaries when we rediscussed.

 

[GreenFox]

Watch the Izaw vs Ixis videos. Link really makes it hard for Bowser to come close or do anything and yes you can power shield it but the link is probably going to try to get you in the air and if you air dodge it will still hit some times because its a 2 hit move. He can just spam projectiles and Zair and even if you are really good at avoiding it you will take damage bowser is a huge target

 

[lanky_gunner]

In my opinion, the only thing holding back a good Bowser against a good Link is Link's projectiles. But as stated, good power-shielding can get rid of that problem. But you do have to be smarter when it comes to being in the air. The Link player in my state can make it hell if you don't watch yourself in the air.

But making short work of projectiles, keeping your air game tight, and knowing the best ways to gimp a Link make this battle easy enough.

Although I may have to fight him more often with Bowser so I can see if there are any mistakes in my thoughts.

 

[Vermy]

PT Boards need your help!

Discussion is turning to aggression and we'd love an experienced Bowser to clear up some things.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=242344

edit: please don't lol too hard at the posts by a certain "Charizard Expert"

 

[B!squick]

This is our new Kirby image. MrEh, make it so.

 

[The Brown Scourge]

When are we going to move onto the next character?

 

[B!squick]

When indeed. Our match up topics are probably the stuff of legends now. XD

 

[Phiddlesticks]

Let's move on right now

Sonic for 50-50?

Yoshi next? Only because there is already an active topic about the PkMn Trainer vs Bowser matchup on their boards

 

[The Brown Scourge]

Yoshi is my tertiary character but i know nothing about fighting him

 

[Xyro77]

This saturday, the BEST samus(me) vs the BEST bowser(vex) will face off at HOBO 19. Even though you haavent covered samus in yalls match-up chart. I can write up an article after this weekend and send it to you guys. Would that help any?

 

[Flayl]

This saturday, the BEST samus(me) vs the BEST bowser(vex) will face off at HOBO 19. Even though you haavent covered samus in yalls match-up chart. I can write up an article after this weekend and send it to you guys. Would that help any?

As long as you can put in side comments from Vex if he disagrees with you, yes.

 

[Xyro77]

well i assume that vex would write his own opinions on the fight as well.

Before i fight him im gonna say the match-up is 60-40 in samus favor. lets see if it holds up after i play him.

 

[Sosuke]

Toon Links are discussing Bowser stage counter picks and bans!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=209912[/CENTER]

We'd really appreciate it if you could help us discuss possible stage counters and bans for your character. All we need in the end is a minimum of 2 counter pick stages, and a minimum 2 stages to ban(including a stage to strike before a match) to move on. You don't have to provide all this at once, so if you only know a single stage is good/bad for either character, that's fine. Thanks in advance. =)​

 

[Noraa]

Is there a page number to find the peach matchup?

 

[Bowser King]

Around the end of page 38 we started discussing peach.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I'm currently theorycrafting the possibilities in the Bowser vs IC's matchup, things arn't looking great so far but bear with me please, I'm trying to make it much more winnable.

I'm NOW trying my hardest to help Bowser get into B tier eventually, as in actually developing matchups instead of a play style with the character. I love this character with all my heart and have a passion for him, so don't worry guys, I won't give up on him as a character.

Btw this is my personal Matchup chart with him atm

Ganon 65:35
Ivysaur 65:35

Falcon 60:40
Jigglypuff 60:40

Lucas 55:45
Ness 55:45
Ike 55:45
Sonic 55:45
Mario 55:45
Charizard 55:45

Snake 50:50
GnW 50:50

Falco 45:55
Fox 45:55
Donkey Kong 45:55
Peach 45:55
Luigi 45:55
ROB 45:55
Link 45:55
Yoshi 45:55
Sheik 45:55
Marth 45:55
Wolf 45:55

Dedede 40:60
Kirby 40:60
Lucario 40:60
Toon Link 40:60
Pit 40:60
Squirtle 40:60
ZSS 40:60
Olimar 40:60

Pikachu 35:65
Wario 35:65
Zelda 35:65
Diddy 35:65

Meta Knight 30:70
Samus 30:70

Ice Climber's 20:80

 

[Hobobloke]

A few things that caught me eye

Dedede 40:60
I assume this is without the infinite? because with it I think it's a lot worse, Klaw hopping can only do so much.

Squirtle 40:60
Squirtle would have a hard time killing us, and we have as CG to fair which can kill Squirtle fairly easily due to his weight. Not to mention fatigue screws him as well. I think it;s in our favour

MK 30:70
Really! I think it's 40:60 for reasons discussed over and over and over and...

Apart from that it looks pretty good to me.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Marth is 5/5 and Snake is like 3/7

 

[MrEh]

MK 30:70
Really! I think it's 40:60 for reasons discussed over and over and over and...

Once the MK player figures out the matchup, it becomes a giant load of poo. Far worse then what most people think. All the MK has to do is wait around (or jump around) doing nothing and you realize that you're screwed.