Alabama Thread! (10/26/2016 update)

[shaSLAM]

i feel like you can tell.

like to predict people i have to put a conscious effort into it lol

maybe thats just cuz i suck.

 

[Micaelis]

Going to try to keep this simple because this is a subject that I can go on and on about (I actually talked for over an hour about this at Waffle House couple nights ago). Plus, I'm not sure if AL likes me blowing up their social.

I sometimes "predict" people but most of the time I just punish them for "errors". But I don't like the word error... because it's not always punishing them for doing something wrong. Most of the time my reaction time is just fast enough that whatever option they pick, I'm able to pick the counter/punish option to it fast enough. I don't have godly reaction time... it's just I use a form of camping to make it easier.

There's a HUGE in-depth discussion about the different forms of camping in Brawl where one of them is sorely overlooked quite often but is possibly the strongest and most used form of camping in high level play. All I'm going to say is that camping is a MUCH more complex term and can be applied in MANY different ways than most think. If anyone requests I can type up a short explanation of what I'm talking about but otherwise I'm not going into detail.

 

[theONEjanitor]

I think Wario players will have a unique perspective on this, I mean, I play a little Wario, and I have a lot of bad habits, but I don't understand how wario players ever lose lol. Wario is one of the best at punishing mistakes because he's so easily manuevered in and out of range. I don't see how Wario ever gets hit if the player knows what he's doing. You can punish almost anything from halfway across the screen.

I can see how it would depend on the character though, like with Snake I think theres going to be wayy more 'baiting' and 'predicting', than punishing. you don't really get any 'hard' punishes with Snake unless your opponent does something really dumb. But with Wario (it SEEMS at least), you can just jump around until your opponent does something.

 

[shaSLAM]

you CAN just jump around but your opponent just wont do anything at all if they are good.

 

[allshort17]

Going to try to keep this simple because this is a subject that I can go on and on about (I actually talked for over an hour about this at Waffle House couple nights ago). Plus, I'm not sure if AL likes me blowing up their social.

I sometimes "predict" people but most of the time I just punish them for "errors". But I don't like the word error... because it's not always punishing them for doing something wrong. Most of the time my reaction time is just fast enough that whatever option they pick, I'm able to pick the counter/punish option to it fast enough. I don't have godly reaction time... it's just I use a form of camping to make it easier.

There's a HUGE in-depth discussion about the different forms of camping in Brawl where one of them is sorely overlooked quite often but is possibly the strongest and most used form of camping in high level play. All I'm going to say is that camping is a MUCH more complex term and can be applied in MANY different ways than most think. If anyone requests I can type up a short explanation of what I'm talking about but otherwise I'm not going into detail.

I'd like a detailed explanation. You can PM me one when you can.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i hate high level play I never get to ftilt people

 

[*Cam*]

Once you get to super-high level play, an ftilt is that last thing they will expect ofc.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i'm trying to get some matches in on aib, but its a joke ladder and no body but scrubs is ever online.

 

[shaSLAM]

yeah joke ladders suck man.

 

[theONEjanitor]

am i'm going to have to pick up ics just so I can fight falco? that ***** is lame

see i wanted to say 'gay' right there because it fits better but duchock might come yell at me

 

[*Cam*]

am i'm going to have to pick up ics just so I can fight falco? that ***** is lame

see i wanted to say 'gay' right there because it fits better but duchock might come yell at me

You could pick up Diddy or Pikachu to handle Falco.

 

[TheSaintKai]

Pick up ICs. Fun character. I'll teach you whatever you want to know.

 

[theONEjanitor]

pikachu's too weird for me. diddy is an option. i didnt know that diddy had an advantage on falco. i'm just not feeling the snake falco matchup AT ALL

 

[G. Vice]

Alabama vs LSU, the rematch.

HYPE!

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What do you particularly dislike about Snake vs. Falco?

 

[theONEjanitor]

falco can laser camp all day. and you can crawl under it but once you get close enough its pretty much a guessing game. obv you can't just crawl up and ftilt that what they're expecting. you're playing THEIR game you have to guess right so THEY don't punish you. if you camp, you have to contend with grabs, boosts,and side b's. i feel like falco has more options than you do in this situation.

and if you do get grabbed you're getting spiked off the stage and you're only hope of survival is by inflicting like 40 damage on yourself with c4, because otherwise you're getting spiked.

snake doesn't have anything that beats falcos spotdodge game. snake can't really punish anything falco does because he can just spotdoge and react. unless you have a soul read or if the falco just does something dumb. i mean, maybe i'm supposed to be able to react in 2 frames. but that seems a bit much. pivot grab is pretty good, but smart falcos aren't going to fall for it much.. also since falco can jump so high, he's really good at punishing snake in the air. you have to pretty much guess when falco's going to jump and hit you and anticipate and airdoge or breverse. so its like 50/50. if you guess wrong you get kicked in the face or grabbed.

even snakes dthrow game isn't as effective because you have to have a 100% prediction. if not falco easily jabs and then does whatever weird stuff they want to do afterward.

just seems like too much stacked against me in the matchup

 

[I SEE YOU]

I think ICs would be a good pick up for you. You've also mention having trouble with Olimar, which is a character that ICs do pretty well against. I've always felt like the combination of Snake and ICs was very good, because Snake is solid on weird cp's that ICs struggle on. What do you plan on doing with your Pit?

 

[GeorgeTHPS]

Meanwhile, I play Samus for fun. :D

 

[TheReflexWonder]

falco can laser camp all day. and you can crawl under it but once you get close enough its pretty much a guessing game. obv you can't just crawl up and ftilt that what they're expecting. you're playing THEIR game you have to guess right so THEY don't punish you. if you camp, you have to contend with grabs, boosts,and side b's. i feel like falco has more options than you do in this situation.

and if you do get grabbed you're getting spiked off the stage and you're only hope of survival is by inflicting like 40 damage on yourself with c4, because otherwise you're getting spiked.

snake doesn't have anything that beats falcos spotdodge game. snake can't really punish anything falco does because he can just spotdoge and react. unless you have a soul read or if the falco just does something dumb. i mean, maybe i'm supposed to be able to react in 2 frames. but that seems a bit much. pivot grab is pretty good, but smart falcos aren't going to fall for it much.. also since falco can jump so high, he's really good at punishing snake in the air. you have to pretty much guess when falco's going to jump and hit you and anticipate and airdoge or breverse. so its like 50/50. if you guess wrong you get kicked in the face or grabbed.

even snakes dthrow game isn't as effective because you have to have a 100% prediction. if not falco easily jabs and then does whatever weird stuff they want to do afterward.

just seems like too much stacked against me in the matchup

You must remember that your character is super-heavy; even if you get hit by a ton of lasers, you're still significantly heavier than him per stock. You even have a crouch/crawl that beats it; as far as avoiding and ignoring lasers go (defensively, not offensively), Snake's one of the best.

If Falco is anywhere close enough for him to get a grab on you, you could have pivot grabbed, DACUS'd, tilted, pulled a grenade...He has to get around all of this in order to get his one truly powerful string on you. Meanwhile, every time he misses, he eats an F-Tilt (~20%), D-Throw (which can easily turn into 30+% with a single good guess), or Dash Attack (at least 10%, right?). If he keeps shorthop lasering at mid-range, shield a laser and pull a grenade. Shield a second shorthop laser and put the grenade in your hand. Falco now has to make a decision that can get you any of your massively damaging options, and you didn't even take damage to get that close.

You can do so much with that grenade close to blowing up--Throw it at him so that he has to stop lasering there; if he lasers it or fails to shield, he takes 12% and is in the air, the place where Snake can run under him and safely attempt to hurt him on the way down. Run up to him and shield/spotdodge; if he tries to grab you, you both get blown up, and 12% to Falco is a lot more than 12% to Snake, especially since you'll probably land on the stage before he does, and can therefore try to hurt him some more without putting yourself at great risk. If he tries to Phantasm away before the grenade blows up, you can toss the grenade out of shield and potentially punish him for it. If he gets too comfortable with your defensive grenade stuff, throw it somewhere (or even drop it with Z, so that the grenade will hit you and protect you from Falco things when you grab or F-Tilt is spotdodged!) and attack him, since Snake's item throws are very quick. Understand that many of your grenades will be ineffective, but, that's also the case for Falco's lasers, and your grenades can do much more damage as well as create fantastic positioning advantage.

Falco can do good damage on you from a grab at low percents (and maybe a D-Air on a grounded Snake), but, otherwise, his damage does not come from long strings or unavoidable moves. It's a B-Air here and there, or a couple of pummels and a throw. Of course, it adds up, but, think about how many mistakes you're allowed to make as compared to Falco. Just keep both characters' options in perspective.

 

[theONEjanitor]

it seems like in the time it takes to shield, pull a grenade, shield again, and pick up the grenade, falco could react and switch up his strategy or even just the timing of his lasers.
how do i throw a grenade at a Falco who's shooting lasers? the laser will blow it up in my face ?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

it seems like in the time it takes to shield, pull a grenade, shield again, and pick up the grenade, falco could react and switch up his strategy or even just the timing of his lasers.
how do i throw a grenade at a Falco who's shooting lasers? the laser will blow it up in my face ?

React with what? You're not close enough for him to grab or even Dash Attack. If he tries to Phantasm immediately after he sees you pull a grenade (which isn't really a threat in the first place), then you can powershield it and immediately DACUS/Dash Attack where he appears (if you didn't pick up the grenade in that time) or throw the grenade at him (if you picked up the grenade).

When you pull a grenade, Snake's body is hunched over, making the area that he can laser you smaller. Regardless, if you powershield and pull a grenade at a distance where he can't immediately Dash Attack you, you will be able to shield and pick up the grenade before a not-standing laser hits you. Perhaps you'll get hit by the laser afterward, but that's one laser in exchange for having a means of forcing Falco to make a decision that may cost him at least 20%. An immediate shorthop laser hits too high for it to set off a grenade you pull out, so unless he does a standing laser or Phantasms before you even pull out the grenade (which is, again, a complete guess on Falco's part), shielding the last laser in a shorthop and pulling a grenade is safe.

How you get that laser to Falco is up to you, and a mix-up in itself. Lasers only hit a thrown grenade at a specific height. If he likes firing double lasers in a shorthop, throw it soon after he leaves the ground and the second laser will blow it up in his face. If he plans on waiting with a single laser, either wait for the last laser in a shorthop and throw it or shorthop and throw the grenade over that single laser. Running toward him after grabbing a grenade scares him, too, because most of his offensive options end with both people blowing up, which is a losing trade for Falco. Just mess around with these options and see how the Falco tends to react to such situations. At worst, it's a guessing game, but, because of your ridiculous weight and Falco's tendency to only get single hits, you can guess wrong much more often than he can while still managing to win.

 

[shaSLAM]

dude snake vs falco isnt that bad at all.

i play falco using D3 CMON MAN!! lol

but seriously i feel like snake can punished spotdodges very well and apply shiled pressure which is really all you need once you get in on falco.
i think snake is a pretty good character to fight falco with idk. youll prolly just have to lay off grenades and make it more of a ground fighting game where you just avoid laser or shield them then get in on him if he side b's, then just shiled it and reset. you just gotta play patient and not use grenades.

but if you wanna pick up IC's and learn to cg, then dude... thats prolly even a better option lol.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i probably don't have the patience to master chaingrabbing plus i would feel like a douche while doing it which would probably de-motivate me to win.

snake cant really punish falco's spotdodge with anything except a pivot grab, which i feel like you cant do on reaction, although unless falco rolls away immediately after the dodge you might grab him anyway if you do it on reaction...iono i should probably try that out. Falcos jab comes out faster than anything Snake can do, unless you have sick reflexes which I guess some might. you only have 2 frames after the spotdodge to punish it. i certainly aint got those kinda reflexes lol

i think being more patient is the key tho. and just trying to put falco in bad situations. i still think Falco has a strong advantage, and more options though. Snake punishes harder, but less often and I think its not enough to even or win the matchup.

 

[theONEjanitor]

What do you plan on doing with your Pit?

my pit is weird, the matchups I like with him aren't necessarily his good matchups. but usually matchups that are annoying with Snake. (except Falco, Falco seems to wreck my Pit too)
like I like Pit vs Mk for some reason, but MK is banned now so that's that.

Pit vs DDD is much less of a pain in the *** than Snake vs DDD (although it still sucks)
Pit vs Olimar is also much better than Snake vs Olimar.
i feel like Pit vs Pikachu might be better for me than the snake matchup but i haven't tried it yet.

 

[*Cam*]

Hit me up at the next tournament and we can play some friendlies Pit v Pika.

 

[shaSLAM]

pit vs. D3 is soooooo annoying.
but ive got that MU down yo.

currently im having trouble vs. pika, really really good marths, and ZSS.
havent played an ic's with d3 yet though but im sure id get ***** in that Mu, but i guess ill try wario for that idk. maybe i should go wario for the pika MU too. i just feel like its easier for d3 to get in on pika than it is for wario to, but d3 has more trouble hitting him lmao. i cant inhale correctly or really punish with grabs that much and ftilt is punishable, which is basically all the moves i use against other small characters (like olimar) so idk what to do against pika right now. i cant Bair his *** all day which is basically the only thing im getting good at in that MU. seriously though, pika can never get grabbed in that MU his dsmash and thunder are really good when used appropriately vs. d3's ground game.

and he can combo like a *****.

wolf is probably my favorite character to play against with d3 loool that Mu is sooooo FREEEEEEEEEEE.
ive been playing alot of mk's with d3 online and sticking it out with that Mu alone gets my d3 better than anything else. its kind of stale but if you REALLY try to win its so hard its crazy. that has to be one of the worst MU's in the game. i can only imagine how bad DK or bowser has it vs. mk.


also i hate fighting jiggs wtf this character is a time out/ rollout character and THATS it


i also had never played the PT Mu before i played Reflex recently and i didnt even know what to think coming out of those matches. i couldnt even move idk what even happened. he outplayed me soooo hard AND i didnt know the MU it was the most ridiciulous beating ive ever had forreal. my mind literally went blank and i just sat there for like 5 minutes trying to figure out what just happened (which was impossible to do in the first place)

 

[theONEjanitor]

i'd rather play pit against PT too. but reflex is like the only person in the world who legit plays pokemon trainer in tournaments lol

 

[*Cam*]

I consider D3 one of the few people that can actually keep Pikachu from getting back to the ledge. D3 can follow him down almost as far as he wants in the air and wait to use his bair. D3's grab range is still really good and he can get Pikachu fairly often with it. 4GOD reverse-out-of-shield grabbed me a lot when I played him. You can easily punish my dsmash with a dash grab; downsmash has a lot of end lag. You can't chaingrab Pika, but a good techchase should yield overall like 20%. D3 also kills earlier than Pikachu, so you can use that to your advantage.

You still have to avoid Pikachu's chaingrab of course. Pika's fair is also really good to pressure D3's shield, especially since he can usually run away afterwards. Despite Pika's mobility, D3 will have no trouble controlling the stage once he gets Pika off. D3's bair, nair, and utilt are threatening enough to make me hesitate to qac over his head back to the center of the stage. D3 can keep the pressure on Pikachu with tilts and grabs to keep him off stage for awhile.

One final thing a lot of people don't realize is the large amount of lag Pikachu's tjolts actually have. I can't camp as well as you might think. Try them out some time and see how quickly you can perform another move after using a tjolt; it takes almost until you land on the ground again. Tjolts are quite punishable.

 

[theONEjanitor]

i hate how much pikachu's thunderjolt pushes you back when you get hit by them even when shielding. like seriously what the **** why do they do that

 

[*Cam*]

Idk, but you can powershield it rather easily. I'm not just saying that from Pika bias. I played CrimsonSun a lot today. Tjolt moves pretty slowly and is easy to pshield. I personally think fireballs from Mario are more annoying to avoid.

 

[Duchock]

Japan is gay.

 

[shaSLAM]

fireballs are more annoying but they arent as big of a deal as tjolts and its not as big of a deal to have a mario camp you than a pika camp you.

cam, im not just talking about throwing out a random downsmash and seeing if it has enough lag for me to run and grab afterwards. im saying if you use it as a mix up or incorporate it into your keep away game or something like that.... i cant explain that stuff well. anyways another pikachu did it to me and it worked really well. he mixed things up really good and that MU turned from being kind of weird to really hard.

also, its pratically impossible to know the PT MU cuz reflex is the only legit PT period loool

 

[_Keno_]

Tipped Off inspired me a good deal. I'm slightly interested in going to Apex now.

However, I have no idea what this point system is they are doing. Do you have to have points to go or something? What do the points even mean?

And who in the region is going?

Japan is gay.

Is that a bad thing?

 

[*Cam*]

fireballs are more annoying but they arent as big of a deal as tjolts and its not as big of a deal to have a mario camp you than a pika camp you.

cam, im not just talking about throwing out a random downsmash and seeing if it has enough lag for me to run and grab afterwards. im saying if you use it as a mix up or incorporate it into your keep away game or something like that.... i cant explain that stuff well. anyways another pikachu did it to me and it worked really well. he mixed things up really good and that MU turned from being kind of weird to really hard.

Granted, tjolts crawl over things and have better range than fireballs. However, as far as I can tell, Mario has less lag on his fireballs than Pikachu does on his tjolts. That, in my opinion, makes fireballs much safer to use.

Dsmash has good range, but it has limited uses. It's multi-hit so it's good if the D3 is airdodging to the ground too much, but it should only do 4% if you can DI out quickly enough. It's also a good option if they are just laying on the ground waiting for you to approach because it does have deceptively good range.

However, it's ending lag makes it unsafe to use most of the time. If Pikachu misses a dsmash, you should grab him at the very least.

In my opinion, the three most dangerous things to D3 in that matchup are the following:

1. Chaingrabs
2. Fair shield pressure
3. Thunder

1. Pika's grab range is bad, but his mobility (ridiculous fast fall speed and fox trot speed) makes up for that. If he gets the grab at low percents, there's not much you can do. You will almost certainly be eating a lot of damage from it. Good D3s can zone out Pikachu players and pivot grab when they see him going for a grab. It's very similar to what Snake does in the same situation.

2. Forward-air is IMO Pikachu's best move. It's multi-hit, decent range, good priority, and easy to auto-cancel. It's great for shield pressure. You have to abuse D3's large shield and dash grab Pikachu before he can hit the ground. Against most characters, fair is really safe on their shield, but D3 is one of the exceptions. Jorge taught me that lesson the hard way back in Tuscaloosa.

3. Finally, I think thunder hurts D3 a lot in this matchup. D3 should never be killed off the top by thunder; he's too heavy for that kind of fun. However, D3 moves so slowly in the air that it's pretty easy to stage guard with thunder. If the Pika is smart, he'll predict the airdodge and put the thunder a little farther ahead of the D3. It's also pretty easy to punish D3's upB with thunder. Thunder is only used for damage-racking in this matchup though. It really won't kill unless the D3 runs into the base of it or DIs very poorly.

Overall against Pikachu, you really need to abuse your range and survivability. You outrange Pikachu with grabs and aerials, and you can make life a living hell if you abuse it. Pikachu also has to get D3 to really high percents before he can kill him, whereas D3 hits pretty hard against the light-weight Pikachu. The matchup is far from impossible, but you have to be careful and precise.

Sorry for the wall of text guys.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I got done talking to Jeremy from Geeks + Gamers, and he says he wants to address the issues had at the last tournament by making this better in a lot of ways. It is supposed to be on February 4.

One, they're going back to the original venue, which means it's a cheaper charge in general. We're looking at a $5 door fee and a $5 to enter each tournament. Also, we're trying to get the word out now, rather than put it together a week before the event, so those two facts should greatly increase local attendance.

Not exactly sure what else is going on, but there will at least be Brawl and Mario Kart: Double Dash!! I really hope we get a LAN adaptor to make 8-player racing a thing.

Are you interested? See about coming. I will have a thread up once I'm given the word.

4273 Troy Hwy
Montgomery, AL 36116

This is a thing.

 

[theONEjanitor]

ill come assuming its next month or later when i actually have monies

are people going to resist?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

ill come assuming its next month or later when i actually have monies

are people going to resist?

Yeah. Calvin and I are going; if there's room with the Auburn guys, I'd like to come with them. Also, the GA people are taking a bus there.

 

[*Cam*]

I'm leaving from Madison. I don't think most of the Auburn crew will be in Auburn on the 17th.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm leaving from Madison. I don't think most of the Auburn crew will be in Auburn on the 17th.

Could we carpool with you, then?

 

[shaSLAM]

im going to resist.
**** the drive though.

ima need some H before i do that **** i cant do that **** sober.