Am I the only one who thinks that Zams is "too big"?

[Morbi]

Even though they both have skin tight outfits, Captain Falcon is by no means a sexy character - he's comical. You just can't compare him to Zero Suit Samus when it comes to sex appeal (ask any woman if she thinks Falcon is sexy and she'll likely just laugh out loud).

There's zero doubt Zero Suit Samus was made to be sexy. However, that doesn't everyone think she is. But from a developer's standpoint - they definitely knew what they were doing.

Honestly; that is subjective, I find him to be... ravishing. I mean, am I the only one that noticed that bod?

 

[aBBYS]

Honestly; that is subjective, I find him to be... ravishing. I mean, am I the only one that noticed that bod?

Of course it's subjective, sorry.

What I meant was that I strongly believe the developers intentions was to make Falcon a comical character. His Falcon Punch, his pink helmet/white outfit, etc.

Samus is not comical in that way. Also, I'm sure a woman's looks means much more to men than a man's looks means to women. I'm not saying women don't care about how men look because they certainly do, but I don't think they even put remotely as much importance to looks as men do.

That's one reason we rarely see females talking about Link and Marth, for example. Sure, they look good. But they don't care that much for looks.

 

[IsmaR]

That's one reason we rarely see females talking about Link and Marth, for example. Sure, they look good. But they don't care that much for looks.

The Yaoi fangirl in me died a little with this post.

 

[aBBYS]

The Yaoi fangirl in me died a little with this post.

Heh heh. One of my female friends is into yaoi, but she would never go on and on about looks like many guys do about Zero Suit Samus. There's a distinct difference in "obsession" about looks between men and women.

 

[BloderModer]

I don't perceive any of the subtle changes as sexualization; someone mentioned it earlier, the Japanese are more "desensitized" to sexualization, it isn't really an issue in their culture. So I doubt any of it was entirely intentional; they are just more "open" to it. I mean in America; it is more acceptable to watch a chainsaw dismemberment after a torture scene than it is to see a nip slip.

They HAVE an issue with both sexualization and most of all: sexism. But because Japan is so conservative, the voices that want to put forth these issues dies fast.

The gender gap in Japan is one of the widest in the industrial world.

 

[Morbi]

They HAVE an issue with both sexualization and most of all: sexism. But because Japan is so conservative, the voices that want to put forth these issues dies fast.

The gender gap in Japan is one of the widest in the industrial world.

Oh, well see; it isn't a relevant problem, just a real problem!

 

[ChikoLad]

Why stop at women in smash 4? Analyze men! Why stop at Smash 4? Analyze every game ever! Why stop at games? Analyze how women and men are sexualized in everything the media has ever created!

And you know that's impossible! People don't have time and energy, so they pick the thing that concerns them most: their favorite character in their favorite video games.

Did you not catch my post on the first page of this topic where I posted this image which alone proves the hypocrisy of people complaining about Samus?

 

[BloderModer]

Oh, well see; it isn't a relevant problem, just a real problem!

Just saying that there is a difference between "indifferent" and "open".

On the other hand, US is usually dominated by moralists when it concerns sex, but those belong to another movement, and not feminists.

Did you not catch my post on the first page of this topic where I posted this image which alone proves the hypocrisy of people complaining about Samus?

Did you even read my post?
Also this is not evidence, it's a straw man.

 

[ChikoLad]

Did you even read my post?
Also this is not evidence, it's a straw man.

It's not a straw man, it is completely relevant (and you've brought plenty of straw men into this). You seem to love that word.

And I read your post, and while you may be saying it sarcastically, I actually seriously suggested that earlier in the topic. If you want to complain about "injustices", don't be selective, do it indiscriminately.

 

[BloderModer]

It's not a straw man, it is completely relevant (and you've brought plenty of straw men into this). You seem to love that word.

And I read your post, and while you may be saying it sarcastically, I actually seriously suggested that earlier in the topic. If you want to complain about "injustices", don't be selective, do it indiscriminately.

It is a strawman argument, not proof. Google strawman.

Like I said, that's impossible and I already explained why.

 

[ChikoLad]

It is a strawman argument, not proof. Google strawman.

Like I said, that's impossible and I already explained why.

I know exactly what straw man means, and you are throwing the word out recklessly as a way to avoid providing proper points, because you know you have none.

The impossible nature of picking out everything is exactly why feminism is flawed to begin with. I leave you with that.

As a general close to what I have to say on this Samus debacle, if people want to get upset about this design, that's their problem, but they only have themselves to blame for being upset. I for one will just enjoy Samus as a fighter and not let her appearance effect my view of the game.

 

[aBBYS]

I think the base problem is that some people can't accept that people view Samus differently. They think EVERYONE has to see her as a warrior, as if you see her as a sex object - you're wrong and they're right.

If they weren't so narrow minded, then I don't think they would have any problems with it.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

The base problem is that these characters were designed many years ago to represent certain aspects of their franchises. Samus is a bounty hunter, and a well rounded character extending far beyond her sexuality- there's no two ways about it, it's been her characterization from the offset. There's no need to change said characterization because a select audience get their kicks from a clump of polygons. It's a fighting game. It's not Loveplus+.

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't see Samus as a sex object myself, or a warrior (which comes across as just as one-note as a sex object, to be frank). I see her as an attractive woman and an extremely respectable person, as well as seeing her as a fearless bounty hunter. While her body is part of why I find her attractive, it's not the only reason. The Smash 4 model is the best model, but that hasn't boosted my opinion of the character or anything, simply because I expected her to look great in HD (3DS version ZSS actually reminds me more of the Brawl ZSS due to the colour scheme).

And even if I do like Samus, I wouldn't see her as one of my favourites, though that is not because there is anything particularly wrong with her. And I haven't had enough time with the character to get super attached anyway (though I would have been disappointed if ZSS really didn't return in Smash 4).

 

[aBBYS]

The base problem is that these characters were designed many years ago to represent certain aspects of their franchises. Samus IS a warrior - there's no two ways about it, it's been her characterization from the offset. There's no need to change said characterization because a select audience get their kicks from a clump of polygons. It's a fighting game. It's not Loveplus+.

This is a great example of such tunnel vision. YOU think she's a warrior - I think not.

Try to understand that people think and interpret differently than you do.

 

[BloderModer]

I know exactly what straw man means, and you are throwing the word out recklessly as a way to avoid providing proper points, because you know you have none.

The impossible nature of picking out everything is exactly why feminism is flawed to begin with. I leave you with that.

As a general close to what I have to say on this Samus debacle, if people want to get upset about this design, that's their problem, but they only have themselves to blame for being upset. I for one will just enjoy Samus as a fighter and not let her appearance effect my view of the game.

You clearly don't know what it means. Everytime a person says "this person says", without providing a source, then attacks this made-up example, it's a strawman argument.

Your picture is not evidence of anything, its a strawman.

That's why I compared it to donating to charity-organizations. A person has a limited amount of money that must be invested in what they believe is important. A feminist person invest their limited time and energy in what they believe is absolutely necessary. Do you understand this metaphor?

"Small streams, make great rivers"

 

[EmbersToAshes]

This is a great example of such tunnel vision. YOU think she's a warrior - I think not.

Try to understand that people think and interpret differently than you do.

I think you'll find her creators would side very much with my characterization over yours. I very much doubt she was created with the sole intent of being ogled at by those with a fetish for animation.

 

[aBBYS]

I think you'll find her creators would side very much with my characterization over yours. I very much doubt she was created with the sole intent of being ogled at by those with a fetish for animation.

It doesn't matter if you have one million people who thinks like you do - there will always be people who see her differently.

The difference between you and me is that I don't see your way as wrong, even though I don't agree with it. You on the other hand look down on me and think you're right.

That attitude is what creates all these clashes that could've been avoided if people just respected each other better.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

It doesn't matter if you have one million people who thinks like you do - there will always be people who see her differently.

The difference between you and me is that I don't see your way as wrong, even though I don't agree with it. You on the other hand look down on me and think you're right.

That attitude is what creates all these clashes that could've been avoided if people just respected each other better.

I don't think you can be wrong or right on this one - I do however consider your general attitude towards the female body abhorrent. You've proven time and time again that you encourage this sexualization simply because you get your kicks off a clump of jazzed-up polygons. In a fighting game. Seriously.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Guys, she's supposed to be somewhat sexualized. I mean it's an attractive blonde in a skintight suit, it's supposed to be sexual. I don't know how you could accidentally stumble onto designing a character in such a way if you weren't meaning her to be sexualized. I mean even in the original Metroid she wore a bikini. The graphics were just too weak to get that across on the NES. When Zero Suit Samus debuted in the remake of the original, she wore a full body suit. Yes, that is less revealing than a bikini, but even so it's sexual. We've gotten to a point in graphics where she can finally be the bombshell she was intended to be. It's also supposed to be a stark contrast to her Suit, you look at that and you don't think some beautiful woman is inside.

She isn't only some sex icon, but she is partially one.

Just be happy It's not Dead or Alive. For ****'s sake, she isn't even showing any cleavage. She's the most covered female in Smash (except for Power Suit Samus), grow up. Where's the outrage over Zelda's cleavage?

If she gets jiggle physics and/or a bikini alt costume then it's too much.

 

[BloderModer]

Guys, she's supposed to be somewhat sexualized. I mean it's an attractive blonde in a skintight suit, it's supposed to be sexual. I don't know how you could accidentally stumble onto designing a character in such a way if you weren't meaning her to be sexualized. I mean even in the original Metroid she wore a bikini. The graphics were just too weak to get that across on the NES. When Zero Suit Samus debuted in the remake of the original, she wore a full body suit. Yes, that is less revealing than a bikini, but even so it's sexual. We've gotten to a point in graphics where she can finally be the bombshell she was intended to be. It's also supposed to be a stark contrast to her Suit, you look at that and you don't think some beautiful woman is inside.

She isn't only some sex icon, but she is partially one.

Just be happy It's not Dead or Alive. For ****'s sake, she isn't even showing any cleavage. She's the most covered female in Smash (except for Power Suit Samus), grow up. Where's the outrage over Zelda's cleavage?

If she gets jiggle physics and/or a bikini alt costume then it's too much.

She's always been sexualized, but her design has changed into a more sexualized (and feminized) one, even from brawl to smash 4, and Brawl was not from a weak system. Power Suit-Samus is now doing a catwalk in her official art instead of a fighting pose, like from brawl.

It could have been worse yes. But it could have been better.

People don't care about Zeldas cleavage, and why should they? Do they have to be outraged about everything?

 

[aBBYS]

I don't think you can be wrong or right on this one - I do however consider your general attitude towards the female body abhorrent. You've proven time and time again that you encourage this sexualization simply because you get your kicks off a clump of jazzed-up polygons. In a fighting game. Seriously.

Why is it abhorrent? I adore and praise the female form as soon as I can.

And could you please lift your level of argumentation above the "clump of jazzed-up polygons"? We all know they don't look like that, they are meant to look attractive. You try to make it sound like we're watching digital women who were made by the Super FX chip on the SNES.

She isn't only some sex icon, but she is partially one.

Just be happy It's not Dead or Alive. For ****'s sake, she isn't even showing any cleavage. She's the most covered female in Smash (except for Power Suit Samus), grow up. Where's the outrage over Zelda's cleavage?

If she gets jiggle physics and/or a bikini alt costume then it's too much.

For ME she's a sex icon and a sex goddess. For other people, she's a cool warrior. Please let people interpret what she is for THEM.

I would be very happy if she got her thong bikini from Super Metroid with some jiggle physics to boot. :-) But yes, I understand some people don't like that idea at all. But just because I don't agree with you in this case, doesn't mean I don't understand what you mean.

You have your viewpoint and I have mine.

 

[ChikoLad]

You clearly don't know what it means. Everytime a person says "this person says", without providing a source, then attacks this made-up example, it's a strawman argument.

Your picture is not evidence of anything, its a strawman.

That's why I compared it to donating to charity-organizations. A person has a limited amount of money that must be invested in what they believe is important. A feminist person invest their limited time and energy in what they believe is absolutely necessary. Do you understand this metaphor?

I didn't say "this person says". There is no straw man argument here. The Captain Falcon comparison highlights a serious level of hypocrisy

And the metaphor doesn't work for the ZSS bashing, because again, nobody is complaining about the other females who are right there in front of them who, under their logic, are problematic female representation (like wearing ACTUAL girly heels). Taking two seconds to type/mention something is not comparable to donating money.

I'm seriously leaving it at this. Take your intrusive feminism to tumblr or something. It's pretty much the sanctuary of feminism.

Also:

People don't care about Zeldas cleavage, and why should they? Do they have to be outraged about everything?

If they are going to be outraged about something as irrelevant and inoffensive as Samus' heels, then yes, they have to be outraged about everything. Because you could not find something less irrelevant and nonsensical to be outraged about.

Power Suit-Samus is now doing a catwalk in her official art instead of a fighting pose, like from brawl.

No she isn't and I'm not even going to bother elaborating because this level of asinine thinking is not even worth discussing.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

Why is it abhorrent? I adore and praise the female form as soon as I can.

And could you please lift your level of argumentation above the "clump of jazzed-up polygons"? We all know they don't look like that, they are meant to look attractive. You try to make it sound like we're watching digital women who were made by the Super FX chip on the SNES.


For ME she's a sex icon and a sex goddess. For other people, she's a cool warrior. Please let people interpret what she is for THEM.

I would be very happy if she got her thong bikini from Super Metroid with some jiggle physics to boot. :-) But yes, I understand some people don't like that idea at all. But just because I don't agree with you in this case, doesn't mean I don't understand what you mean.

You have your viewpoint and I have mine.

Yes, the adoration was particularly prominent in your poll highlighting the positive and negative attributes of Zamus's ass through the years, and asking for an opinion on which is more attractive.

*Rolls eyes*

That is not appreciation, that is sexism. Samus does not exist for the purpose of letting some guys with a twisted view on sexuality get their kicks - she is a rounded character with characterization entirely irrelevant to her status as a woman.
The fact that you encourage further sexualization (and seriously, a thong...I mean, really) only highlights how insignificant she is to you as a character, and your perception of her existence being a means for you to get turned on over. That is an extremely poor view to have of women.

My reference to her as a clump of polygons is entirely true. Whether it's NES era or modern day, the fact is you are getting hot over a fictional character, with a fictional body. She doesn't exist. Is your libido such that you would support the rampant sexualization of the game's male characters, I wonder?

This is a fighting game. As I have stated previously, it is not Loveplus+. If you are so enthralled by fictional characters with digitized curves in all the right places, I suggest you play that. This is not the genre for your libido to be unleashed upon.

 

[BloderModer]

I didn't say "this person says". There is no straw man argument here. The Captain Falcon comparison highlights a serious level of hypocrisy

And the metaphor doesn't work for the ZSS bashing, because again, nobody is complaining about the other females who are right there in front of them who, under their logic, are problematic female representation (like wearing ACTUAL girly heels). Taking two seconds to type/mention something is not comparable to donating money.

I'm seriously leaving it at this. Take your intrusive feminism to tumblr or something. It's pretty much the sanctuary of feminism.

Also:



If they are going to be outraged about something as irrelevant and inoffensive as Samus' heels, then yes, they have to be outraged about everything. Because you could not find something less irrelevant and nonsensical to be outraged about.



No she isn't and I'm not even going to bother elaborating because this level of asinine thinking is not even worth discussing.

Sonicbrawler! This thread alone is already taking up too much of my time and energy. It's exhausting. Is that proof enough?

 

[ToothiestAura]

She's always been sexualized, but her design has changed into a more sexualized, even from brawl to smash 4, and Brawl was not from a weak system. Power Suit-Samus is now doing a catwalk in her official art instead of a fighting pose, like from brawl.

She's flying in her official art, but she is more attractive obviously. But so are all the realistic characters (Marth is more beautiful than ever). I suppose my main point is, people shouldn't be outraged now. They should have always been upset with Samus' sexualization. They're acting as if it is new, when it isn't. Its been there the whole time. It was only going to get worse as graphics improved.

It could have been worse yes. But it could have been better.

That's true. They didn't need to increase her breast size, they could have just given her the pretty face. But Smash isn't perfect.

People don't care about Zeldas cleavage, and why should they? Do they have to be outraged about everything?

No, of course not. That was me just being ridiculous.

 

[aBBYS]

Yes, the adoration was particularly prominent in your poll highlighting the positive and negative attributes of Zamus's *** through the years, and asking for an opinion on which is more attractive.

*Rolls eyes*

That is not appreciation, that is sexism. Samus does not exist for the purpose of letting some guys with a twisted view on sexuality get their kicks - she is a rounded character with characterization entirely irrelevant to her status as a woman.
The fact that you encourage further sexualization (and seriously, a thong...I mean, really) only highlights how insignificant she is to you as a character, and your perception of her existence being a means for you to get turned on over. That is an extremely poor view to have of women.

My reference to her as a clump of polygons is entirely true. Whether it's NES era or modern day, the fact is you are getting hot over a fictional character, with a fictional body. She doesn't exist. Is your libido such that you would support the rampant sexualization of the game's male characters, I wonder?

This is a fighting game. As I have stated previously, it is not Loveplus+. If you are so enthralled by fictional characters with digitized curves in all the right places, I suggest you play that. This is not the genre for your libido to be unleashed upon.

If you read the poll, it specifically said it was NOT about how sexy they were - but rather how they actually looked.

Sexism is not objectification of females. Sexism is if I said that only females should be sexualized, and not males. If I said that yaoi fangirls are perverted, but yuri fanboys are A-OK. THAT is sexism. So please tell me - how is my view twisted because I love boobs and butts?

What's wrong with a thong? There are lots of female characters wearing them. Cammy, Chun Li, Mai Shiranui to name a few fighting game characters.

No, she doesn't exist, but that doesn't take out the fact that she looks extremely good. The developers can sexualize the male characters all they want if they think the fanbase will appreciate it. I don't have anything against sexy male characters, even though I naturally don't enjoy their sex appeal.

And you must not have played Loveplus, because Loveplus isn't even about sexualization.

And don't worry - I play those other games too, because they also have lots of sexy female characters! :-)

 

[ndayday]

No, drop it. You're never going to convince each other to accept the opposite viewpoint. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about but if this is going to continue to be petty insults this thread is not going to work.

 

[aBBYS]

No, drop it. You're never going to convince each other to accept the opposite viewpoint. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be talked about but if this is going to continue to be petty insults this thread is not going to work.

I would like to point out that I don't inslt anyone, and I have already understood that some people don't like the sexualization of Samus.

I would also like to point out that I'm not the one attacking other people for their opinions, but merely defend myself against people who attack me.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

...

Seriously, mods? Seriously? This is the kind of thing that is okay here?

There is a line between appreciating the female form and being a complete pig. Saying that you like Samus because she's a "sex goddess" crosses that line. Yeah, let's have one of the few strong female rolemodels in video game be glorified as a sex object. That'll work ou so amazingly well.

...

Yes, sarcasm.

Point is, I don't care if the woman is real or digital, drooling over them and wanting them to accentuate their sexual features even further because you think they are nothing more than a sex object... grow the **** up, dude. I'm not sure what's more messed up; that, or that fact that you are so shamelessly okay with it.

 

[EmbersToAshes]

...

Seriously, mods? Seriously? This is the kind of thing that is okay here?

There is a line between appreciating the female form and being a complete pig. Saying that you like Samus because she's a "sex goddess" crosses that line. Yeah, let's have one of the few strong female rolemodels in video game be glorified as a sex object. That'll work ou so amazingly well.

...

Yes, sarcasm.

Point is, I don't care if the woman is real or digital, drooling over them and wanting them to accentuate their sexual features even further because you think they are nothing more than a sex object... grow the **** up, dude. I'm not sure what's more messed up; that, or that fact that you are so shamelessly okay with it.

I wouldn't argue with it, objectification is clearly not in breach of the rules - I was given an infraction for having an opinion.

 

[ChikoLad]

Sonicbrawler! This thread alone is already taking up too much of my time and energy. It's exhausting. Is that proof enough?

If you can't follow through with a cause, don't start to begin with. If a cause is futile, leave it. Failing to do both of these things shows a lack of integrity and poor judgement and prioritisation.

 

[Ryuutakeshi]

I wouldn't argue with it, objectification is clearly not in breach of the rules - I was given an infraction for having an opinion.

Oh screw this. Guillaume's gonna love this one...

 

[aBBYS]

...

Seriously, mods? Seriously? This is the kind of thing that is okay here?

There is a line between appreciating the female form and being a complete pig. Saying that you like Samus because she's a "sex goddess" crosses that line. Yeah, let's have one of the few strong female rolemodels in video game be glorified as a sex object. That'll work ou so amazingly well.

That's YOUR opinion - don't ty to force it upon me. Who do you think Sakurai and his team make Samus sexier for? You or me? You have to understand that not everyone sees Samus as a "strong female rolemodel", and that "crossing the line" is extremely subjective.

Point is, I don't care if the woman is real or digital, drooling over them and wanting them to accentuate their sexual features even further because you think they are nothing more than a sex object... grow the **** up, dude. I'm not sure what's more messed up; that, or that fact that you are so shamelessly okay with it.

Please tell me how it's immature to love the female body. Just calling me names isn't a very good argumentation techique, you know.

 

[ChikoLad]

@ aBBYS : While I won't condemn you for having your opinion on Samus and respect it (despite not agreeing with it), I would advise you to moderate yourself. This is not the thread for expressing your infatuation with the character's appearance. There is a thread in the Rosalina section for people to express how beautiful they think she is, so that kind of thread seems within the forum regulations. You should make a similar thread in the ZSS section if you want to discuss Samus' body. There's a place for everything, but your infatuation will disturb some people in the topic.

 

[aBBYS]

Why is it that people who see Samus as a warrior never has to defend their opinions?

Let me guess... because they have the "right" opinions? -_-

Well, this thread actually is about Zero Suit Samus's body.

 

[Mic_128]

Zamus has boobs and a butt. Everyone get over it.

 

[IsmaR]

Why is it that people who see Samus as a warrior never has to defend their opinions?

Let me guess... because they have the "right" opinions? -_-

Well, this thread actually is about Zero Suit Samus's body.

Because she's raised by a warrior race of bird aliens who gave her a combat-ready power suit?

I'm not going to drag it out here, but your thread was deemed inappropriate by the consensus of the staff (whose official stance is along the lines of "Yes, Zamus has boobs and a butt. Get over it" as Mic just ninja'd me on). You can have whatever opinion you like on the matter, but if you read the Global Rules, you can easily see that the site is supposed to be family-friendly. A thread dedicated entirely to jiggle physics =/= a thread discussing her body changes from previous games. If you can show your appreciation without crossing that line (not to modest nun levels, but somewhere in the area), then everybody wins.

For the record I find both sides of this "argument" to be insufferable. I just want to play video games and appreciate them for what they are. If that means something else for other people, then that's fine so long as they don't infringe or force their interpretation on anyone.