An Important Message (You probably suck at Smash)

[yoshi_fan]

wow your nice lol.

dude i dont care what u said stop crying about wavedashing brawl isnt melee

QFT v2

^-.-^-.-^-.-quoted for truth -.-^-.-^-.-^

Zek has another


^-.-^-.-^-.-quoted for truth -.-^-.-^-.-^

So you can only be good if you are rich, has a LOT of free time, and you are lucky enought for having a LOT of friends? that doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[Kryptonite X]

This is the dumbest thread ever made

Quoted for emphasis.



QQ more you whiny little babies.



WAAAH CASUALS ARE GOING TO BE STEPPIN ON MY TOES NOW.

 

[iMichael]

I suck at melee. I have no one to play. Alpha speaks the truth. I thought I was good then I watched some vids that made me realize I suck. Maybe with determination and practice I could be a pro but right now there's no way I could be a pro.

Wow good way to put yourself down....the only way someone can say someone "sucks" is when they plug two controllers up onto a gamecube/Wii 4 stocks no items and play a good stage...til then...no one could say that someone "sucks" because of "wavedashing" or "L-canceling"

 

[Red Exodus]

*holds head in shame* I thought more people here could read.

 

[Jx31]

So your saying the only way to be good in Melee is to use a technique that wasnt meant to be used in the game and to go to tournments far away from you...? o_o

Your logic confuses me, are you stupid? :D

Are you? His main point was that you need EXPERIENCE to be good. If you play the same four to five people all the time you will hardly improve, thus, that's why you need to go to tournaments if you want improve.

 

[Ryuker]

Am I the only one that thinks it's incredibly elitist and obnoxious to tell people they "suck" because they're not as good as the top 1% of Smash players? You don't have to be a competitive tournament player to qualify as being good at a game.

Were's your standard for good then? Btw If you know about wavedashing there is a high possibility you still suck... Even though if you refuse to accept there are ways to play this game the manual does not mention you just suck at this game. If we look at the huge amount of people attending tournaments even the low place finishes count as barely good. Are you willing to defend that you can beat any of those even though you never attended any tournament? If not you suck simple as that.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

lol @ all the noobs with 20 posts whining about what AZ said.

It may be harsh, but it's true. This is tough love in verbal form. Suck it up (no pun intended) and deal with it.

 

[mastr0fmyd0main3]

...what are you trying to gain from this?
anyway, who wants to spend money on plane or bus tickets to play a freakin game, yeah, smash is cool, but not to like spend more money that the one you used to buy it.

Than obviously this game doesn't mean that much to you and whether wavedashing/L-cancelling is in brawl doesn't concern you at all.

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree, there is more to a game than knowing special moves, there is creativity involved, and there may be someone who has discovered things we havnt seen yet.

Saying that everyone sucks except those who go to tournaments is pretty lame, considering how much tournaments limit the game.

I know alot of players who use terrain to their advantage, and even play extremely smart with items, yet they suck too i guess?

Oh yeah, and you can't truly say someone sucks unless you see them play/play them.

(iwouldalsoexpectmorefromamoderator)

 

[Mama]

Its not an attack its just an honest statement. He's right. And as I've stated numerous times its not the technique but the mindset. Dedication to make yourself better. Thats why Brawl will still be dominated by the people who have the mentality to find ways to expand their game regardless of what parts of Melee carry over. Read his post over and over and let this be the end of the god ****ed wave dash threads

 

[Tony_]

People who don't know how to wavedash/l cancel DO suck at the game. It isn't because they don't know these things, because even if they did, they would STILL suck at the game. Knowing or not knowing, it makes no difference, you SUCK when you only play with your same 5 person group of friends (and maybe you've been to a local library tournament and played against 20 other people who also only play against their 5 friends, congratulations for being the best kid on the short bus), you don't suck when you START going to large tournaments and gaining experience against multiple, avid players of the game, players who have traveled all around the country playing the best of the best and have literally played hundreds of different opponents.

Take wavedashing out and 98% of the population doesn't even know it happened. I would say maybe, maybe 2% of the people that own SSBM know about wavedashing. Of those the people who don't like wavedashing ARE THE MINORITY, yet this minority claims to speak for the other 98% of the people. The thing is, when people find out about the more advanced and talented community around the game, they are inclined to either join it and play in tournaments...or not. I would say the numbers are much more positive for people who embrace wavedashing than the reverse. In other words, if 4 people find out about wavedashing, 3 people want to learn it and the 4th wants to be a scrub (though the ratio is probably more like 12 or 13/20).

My point: Wavedashing not being in Brawl won't balance anything, it will simply make it even harder for the average joe who sucks to gain any advantage on someone who is good, at least in Melee you could be technical and somewhat make up for a lack of intelligence.

EDIT: There is no such thing as undiscovered talent. You get good by playing with good people. If you don't have anyone good around you, then you probably suck.

DOUBLE EDIT: This message is for anyone who is upset that wavedashing is gone and also for anyone that thinks wavedashing being gone will somehow even the playing field.

BAwww somewhere else Modf@g.

 

[Mersh]

This is the exact kind of elitist **** that makes casuals hate the competitive scene. If you want to get your point across, don't be such a ****ing douche about it.

 

[Kentalish]

ok if any thread should get locked its this one. basically your saying is that we all suck cuz we dont wavedash WELL GUESS WHAT ITS NOT IN BRAWL SO U WILL SUCK TO. I cant afford to just fly and go play agains Ken and all of them I know id get *****... I dont play alot but. Even if we play with the same people who gives a rats *** man honestly.

Now stop crying about no WDing or L canleing we still have DD

 

[Zink]

this is exactly proving our point
CRIMINY people, you NEED to acknowledge that if you don't use ATs you are a scub and bad a smash BY DEFINITION. Same goes for people who never play except locally.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Yes it does. It 100% does. If you don't know what Wavedashing is, you suck at Smash Bros.

Sorry for double post but...

He DOESNT suck at smash bros: he DOES SUCKS FOR THE METAGAME THAT ARE FOR SMASH BROS, not FOR THE GAME IN IT.

He might win you if you two don't use wavedash.

And you might win him if the two uses wavedash.

He is good at PURE smash, you are good at ADVANCED (or exploited and buggy) smash

And yeah, i got banned from a forum thanks to all those pretemptium pros. Looks like the mods are the pretetious

 

[Jx31]

Hmm.. I don't necessarily agree, there is more to a game than knowing special moves, there is creativity involved, and there may be someone who has discovered things we havnt seen yet.

Saying that everyone sucks except those who go to tournaments is pretty lame, considering how much tournaments limit the game.

I know alot of players who use terrain to their advantage, and even play extremely smart with items, yet they suck too i guess?

Anyone, and I mean ANYONE with a drop of common sense can use terrain to their advantage as well as creating thoughtful uses for items.

 

[spikehappy07]

wow your nice lol.

dude i dont care what u said stop crying about wavedashing brawl isnt melee

^^^^same here^u^

 

[Red Exodus]

Wow good way to put yourself down....the only way someone can say someone "sucks" is when they plug two controllers up onto a gamecube/Wii 4 stocks no items and play a good stage...til then...no one could say that someone "sucks" because of "wavedashing" or "L-canceling"

Putting myself down? Is that what they call the truth now?

I am serious, I would not be able to hold my own against most people on the Melee boards or at tournaments. Most people who don't go to tournaments fool themselves into thinking they're the best because they can beat their 5 friends but in truth and in fact that have no idea how badly they suck.

It's kinda sad to see everyone think they are good, have some humility people.


*and then the scrubs raid the thread*

 

[pirkid]

Now I apparently suck because i cant afford to go tournaments. Nice logic.

We're in the same boat, my friend.


I can say I'm good IN MY EYES because I can beat my whole school. If I don't go to any tournaments how can I suck? I've never lost (more then twice ) in my area, and just because I might suck at REAL tournaments don't mean I suck at school.

Saying that means you have to compare everyone to someone like Ken or PC. That doesn't work.

I would like to go to some tournaments and get my arse kicked so I can train more, but I'm financially short and 'caged', so to speak.

If your good in your area, then well done. Just cause you can't go to these events doesn't mean you suck in your own retrospect.

 

[LavisFiend]

"There is no such thing as undiscovered talent. You get good by playing with good people. If you don't have anyone good around you, then you probably suck."

Of course there is, now you are just being close-minded.

Just for ****s and giggles, if someone who "sucks" beats someone who is godly like "you," does that make them still sucky because they beat a pro, or do they become unsucky for beating someone who has beaten many other good people?

 

[Nintendude]

AZ may have come off as rude, obnoxious, and elitist, but he approached this topic the right way, and you know what else? HE'S RIGHT.

When it comes to scrubs at a game, smash has the WORST case of any game I've ever seen. People simply cannot accept when they suck. What pisses me off even more is when people think they are great because they can do some of the advanced techniques. NEWSFLASH! Using advanced techniques does not make you good! Knowing HOW to apply them, applying them well, and being SMART are what makes you good at Smash.

You know what else is really sad? AZ is a moderator and also a name that's been around for a very long time. He's been involved in the competitive scene for ages (and, I'm assuming, almost always up-to-date), and I believe he commentated a bunch of Smash matches from Major League Gaming, yet some of you really think that he's wrong? I kinda wish some of you stupid scrubs would get sent to banned camp temporarily just for being...well....stupid. It's a disgrace that such noobishness is so prevalent at Smashboards.

 

[G&Wismyhomeboy]

lol @ all the noobs with 20 posts whining about what AZ said.

Are all 1900 of your posts this worthless?

 

[Red Exodus]

How many of you guys have ever even been to a tournament? You sound worse than I was when I was a noob.

 

[Ryuker]

Exactly but people who havent invested time looking up stuff about this game and gone to tournaments can not see that... . It's just not understandable to them. They think wavedashing creates a gap they can not pass eventhough they weren't able to pass it anyway otherwise they would have done it. They think tourney players are only good because of their techniques they don't seem to understand tourney players actually understand this game better are able to do everything they do and play smarter then any of them would. Even with items on... .

 

[Jumpinjahosafa]

Anyone, and I mean ANYONE with a drop of common sense can use terrain to their advantage as well as creating thoughtful uses for items.

Yeah but lets say someone plays baseball. They're probably top with their highschool/college team, but they get monster slammed when it comes to playing major league.

Can you truly say that they SUCK at baseball?

No.

You guys are making it seem like its either "pro, go to tournaments!!" or "suck, can't afford to go" No grey area at all?

I'm not saying i'm good at smash, i'm probably not (especially since I don't currently own the game anymore due to stupid circumstances) but you honestly can't lump everyone into two catagories depending on how much money/free time they have.

 

[fr0st2k]

Are you? His main point was that you need EXPERIENCE to be good. If you play the same four to five people all the time you will hardly improve, thus, that's why you need to go to tournaments if you want improve.

This isnt true in the least... if you have 4-5 people to play .. who continually get better, as you do, you will get better.

Your logic is so utterly ******** and ignorant.

Those 4-5 people have the internet, they have youtube videos, they have this website, and they have fingers and brains. They can increase their skill, and thus, cause a chain making their friends get better.

If you dont believe that you are ********.

 

[Kazuya]

People who don't know how to wavedash/l cancel DO suck at the game. It isn't because they don't know these things, because even if they did, they would STILL suck at the game. Knowing or not knowing, it makes no difference, you SUCK when you only play with your same 5 person group of friends (and maybe you've been to a local library tournament and played against 20 other people who also only play against their 5 friends, congratulations for being the best kid on the short bus), you don't suck when you START going to large tournaments and gaining experience against multiple, avid players of the game, players who have traveled all around the country playing the best of the best and have literally played hundreds of different opponents.

Take wavedashing out and 98% of the population doesn't even know it happened. I would say maybe, maybe 2% of the people that own SSBM know about wavedashing. Of those the people who don't like wavedashing ARE THE MINORITY, yet this minority claims to speak for the other 98% of the people. The thing is, when people find out about the more advanced and talented community around the game, they are inclined to either join it and play in tournaments...or not. I would say the numbers are much more positive for people who embrace wavedashing than the reverse. In other words, if 4 people find out about wavedashing, 3 people want to learn it and the 4th wants to be a scrub (though the ratio is probably more like 12 or 13/20).

My point: Wavedashing not being in Brawl won't balance anything, it will simply make it even harder for the average joe who sucks to gain any advantage on someone who is good, at least in Melee you could be technical and somewhat make up for a lack of intelligence.

EDIT: There is no such thing as undiscovered talent. You get good by playing with good people. If you don't have anyone good around you, then you probably suck.

DOUBLE EDIT: This message is for anyone who is upset that wavedashing is gone and also for anyone that thinks wavedashing being gone will somehow even the playing field.

Act like a moderator please. The post does have some truth in it, but I'd expect it from an angry Ken or Aken or whatever they call themselves now that can't face it that wade dashing isn't in the game anymore.

I'm annoyed too, I must've spent countless hours perfecting WDing with Marth. Now I find out WDing is gone and Marth STILL hasnt been confirmed/might not even be in and it's making me frustrated. But calling pretty much everyone sucky because they don't like WDing is what I expect from an idiot.

I know 3 players who know about wavedashing, CAN WAVE DASH - but don't bother using it. WD there, WD here, WD WD WD WD . It's not in Brawl, face it. I'll admit WDing won't even the playing field between Semi-Pros and Pros, or even Pros from everyone else. But it will make Brawl a lot more different from Melee.

Just be glad they didn't take out WD Landing - or the Air Dodge in general.

 

[Saymus]

lol, AZ dishes out the RAMPAGE.

And:

Agreed.

Does Anikki WD?

Yeah, he does actually.

-popfizz

 

[BackItch]

My point: Wavedashing not being in Brawl won't balance anything, it will simply make it even harder for the average joe who sucks to gain any advantage on someone who is good, at least in Melee you could be technical and somewhat make up for a lack of intelligence.

Let me get this straight...

You think that tech skills makes up for a lack of intelligence, and if you remove wavedashing, it makes it hard for average people to gain an advantage on a skilled player?

First of all, you've already established that the average player dosen't even KNOW about wavedashing, let alone is able to perform it.
It's not going to affect that supposed 98% of players.

And why would you want the average joe to gain an advantage anyways? Isn't that why you people held on so dearly to your precious wavedashing in the first place? It could create a rift in between those who know its power and those that don't.

Imagine a Smash Bros with NO advanced techs at all...
Heck, imagine a game with absolutely NO techniques.
Rock-Paper-Scissors, for example. There's no techniques, just mindgames. A "noob" can easily beat a competitive RPS player.
Chess, on the other hand, requires much skill, knowledge of techniques, and still incorporates mindgames. Yet, a "noob" has no chance of beating a skilled player.



My point: Advanced techs increases the difference between your average joe and a skilled player... NOT decreases it like you seem to think so.

(Let me also add that it kinda sets the mood for these forums when the mods are running around saying that "If you don't wavedash, you suck".
Guess there's no room for professionalism here...)

 

[Icy_Eagle]

so much sucking =O...yet lots of points...yeah you don't need anything to be good just lots of experience.

You forgot one sucks lol. But anyhow, people read the doble-edit in the OP, this is merely meant for your typical annoying poster saying stuff like

No wavedash BRAWL SUXXORS!!!1!
or
yay no wavedashing, now the game's balanced beyond perfection
or
I'm a pro and now I can't play animore.

No need to take it personally if you do. And yes, i'm one of the sucky ones

 

[LavisFiend]

How many of you guys have ever even been to a tournament? You sound worse than I was when I was a noob.

I have, quite a few times actually, but my funds have been preety low...

I haven't left Louisiana at all because I just can't afford it.

and yes, I got my asskicked because I never applied what I learned correctly, and I am not denying that whatsoever...

However, it is a matter of common sense that there will ALWAYS be someone better than another, and having a close-minded outlook on that person not being someone who is not well known is a foolish thing to think.

The world has MILLIONS of people after all...

There is never one true "best."

Noone is invincible.

 

[Lant]

People who don't know how to wavedash/l cancel DO suck at the game. It isn't because they don't know these things, because even if they did, they would STILL suck at the game.

*sigh*

100% wrong.

I didn't know how to wavedash, and I came 2nd in a tournament with 100 participants. Don't go saying "o but dey all suked", 'cause they didn't. I've recently learnt how to wavedash, and it makes the smallest difference, sure, wavelanding is useful, I use SHFFLing alot, but I picked it up on my own, and didn't know it was an 'advanced tech'.

You have to stop whining about your wavedashing.

Oh, and I play the UK copy of the game, which is the least broken.

 

[Kazuya]

Let me get this straight...

You think that tech skills makes up for a lack of intelligence, and if you remove wavedashing, it makes it hard for average people to gain an advantage on a skilled player?

First of all, you've already established that the average player dosen't even KNOW about wavedashing, let alone is able to perform it.
It's not going to affect that supposed 98% of players.

And why would you want the average joe to gain an advantage anyways? Isn't that why you people held on so dearly to your precious wavedashing in the first place? It could create a rift in between those who know its power and those that don't.

Imagine a Smash Bros with NO advanced techs at all...
Heck, imagine a game with absolutely NO techniques.
Rock-Paper-Scissors, for example. There's no techniques, just mindgames. A "noob" can easily beat a competitive RPS player.
Chess, on the other hand, requires much skill, knowledge of techniques, and still incorporates mindgames. Yet, a "noob" has no chance of beating a skilled player.



My point: Advanced techs increases the difference between your average joe and a skilled player... NOT decreases it like you seem to think so.

(Let me also add that it kinda sets the mood for these forums when the mods are running around saying that "If you don't wavedash, you suck".
Guess there's no room for professionalism here...)

Me sentiments exactly.

 

[Mr.GAW]

wow your nice lol.

dude i dont care what u said stop crying about wavedashing brawl isnt melee

^^Quoted for Truth

Not everyone has money out the *** and can afford plane tickets and whatnot to go to every tournament in the world.

I wish I did, but I don't.

So there is still undiscovered talent. Are people who are isolated from the rest of the world automatically sucky? No, because they quite simply can't afford to go places that are large scale, meaning that they will never be noticed as good at the game because they can't grow on a large public scale.

I didn't know moderators were capable of making so many generalizations.

There may be truth behind this post still, but...wow...

err... nice rant i guess but like, does any1 give a crap about anything u said?

So that would mean everyone sucks now that their both gone?

...what are you trying to gain from this?
anyway, who wants to spend money on plane or bus tickets to play a freakin game, yeah, smash is cool, but not to like spend more money that the one you used to buy it.

I diddnt suck at melle i just diddnt know what wavedashing was... that doesnt meen ill suck

Now I apparently suck because i cant afford to go tournaments. Nice logic.

So, AZ, by your logic, EVERYONE sucks, since there was a time when no one had ever played Smash Bros. If we only get good by playing with people who are good, then NO ONE is good.

If you were trying to drive home the point that a competitive mentality can turn people into gigantic gaping *******s, then mission accomplished.

This is the biggest bunch of bull**** I've ever read.

Because OBVIOUSLY those who registered in '07 have not had the game since then...

Quit kissing his ***.

So half of the post is an insult to almost everybody EXCEPT the minority who goes to tourneys.
The other half is some crappy statistic without background studies.
And the conclusion is a whinning because of Wavedashing gone and I don't see how it derives from the rest of your statements.

I also liked WD and it not being in Brawl isnt going to make the game any better, but I don't see why you insult almost everybody...

This is the dumbest thread ever made

For shame, mod... for shame.

I have nothing further to say.

wow your nice lol.

dude i dont care what u said stop crying about wavedashing brawl isnt melee

^^Quoted for Truth

Not everyone has money out the *** and can afford plane tickets and whatnot to go to every tournament in the world.

I wish I did, but I don't.

So there is still undiscovered talent. Are people who are isolated from the rest of the world automatically sucky? No, because they quite simply can't afford to go places that are large scale, meaning that they will never be noticed as good at the game because they can't grow on a large public scale.

I didn't know moderators were capable of making so many generalizations.

There may be truth behind this post still, but...wow...

err... nice rant i guess but like, does any1 give a crap about anything u said?

So that would mean everyone sucks now that their both gone?

...what are you trying to gain from this?
anyway, who wants to spend money on plane or bus tickets to play a freakin game, yeah, smash is cool, but not to like spend more money that the one you used to buy it.

I diddnt suck at melle i just diddnt know what wavedashing was... that doesnt meen ill suck

Now I apparently suck because i cant afford to go tournaments. Nice logic.

So, AZ, by your logic, EVERYONE sucks, since there was a time when no one had ever played Smash Bros. If we only get good by playing with people who are good, then NO ONE is good.

If you were trying to drive home the point that a competitive mentality can turn people into gigantic gaping *******s, then mission accomplished.

This is the biggest bunch of bull**** I've ever read.

Because OBVIOUSLY those who registered in '07 have not had the game since then...

Quit kissing his ***.

So half of the post is an insult to almost everybody EXCEPT the minority who goes to tourneys.
The other half is some crappy statistic without background studies.
And the conclusion is a whinning because of Wavedashing gone and I don't see how it derives from the rest of your statements.

I also liked WD and it not being in Brawl isnt going to make the game any better, but I don't see why you insult almost everybody...

This is the dumbest thread ever made

For shame, mod... for shame.

I have nothing further to say.

QFT v2

^-.-^-.-^-.-quoted for truth -.-^-.-^-.-^

Zek has another


^-.-^-.-^-.-quoted for truth -.-^-.-^-.-^

So you can only be good if you are rich, has a LOT of free time, and you are lucky enought for having a LOT of friends? that doesn't make any sense at all.

Quoted for emphasis.



QQ more you whiny little babies.



WAAAH CASUALS ARE GOING TO BE STEPPIN ON MY TOES NOW.

BAwww somewhere else Modf@g.

This is the exact kind of elitist **** that makes casuals hate the competitive scene. If you want to get your point across, don't be such a ****ing douche about it.

ok if any thread should get locked its this one. basically your saying is that we all suck cuz we dont wavedash WELL GUESS WHAT ITS NOT IN BRAWL SO U WILL SUCK TO. I cant afford to just fly and go play agains Ken and all of them I know id get *****... I dont play alot but. Even if we play with the same people who gives a rats *** man honestly.

Now stop crying about no WDing or L canleing we still have DD

"There is no such thing as undiscovered talent. You get good by playing with good people. If you don't have anyone good around you, then you probably suck."

Of course there is, now you are just being close-minded.

Just for ****s and giggles, if someone who "sucks" beats someone who is godly like "you," does that make them still sucky because they beat a pro, or do they become unsucky for beating someone who has beaten many other good people?

Shut up.

AZ owns your soul. And you are ignorant, and stupid. All of you.

 

[Red Exodus]

*And the scrubs continue to raid the thread*

Hey, do you guys think? WD is easy to learn and gives you an edge.

Do you know what pros have but can't be learned in 30 minutes?

Hitbox sizes, frame windows, frame counts, and most of all, metagame.

Pros can relearn all of the above while poor old average joe doesn't know jack **** about what is going on.

 

[Teethpaste101]

Man your pretty harsh bet there's things in life you can't do and you don't see people in life going around saying you suck!

 

[Tryptomine]

My, that was a harsh post. I'm a casual player and I'll easily admit that I suck at the game even by my definition, I don't employ Advanced Tactics, have the time or money for any real tournaments, nor am I that obsessed with the game to bother learning right now.

But guess what? I still have fun. I love the game and still enjoy playing others when I can.

So whats your problem with that? Everyone approaches the game differently. Granted, there are the arrogant noobs who refuse to beleive they aren't the best player in the world, but I don't see the point of creating this thread just to scream at and 'slam reality into them.'

For a moderator here and representative of the 'hardcore' community as a whole, this is surprisingly blatant and childish trolling you're posting.

 

[Pluvia's other account]

Yeah,And:

he does actually.

-popfizz

He does?

I've never seen him do it, do you have a video?

EDIT:

And clearly everyone that doesn't play Melee my way sucks at that game.

 

[Zink]

scrub swarm! stop whining and go learn to play Smash already!

 

[Gilgamesh]

What Zealot tried to say, albeit very unpolitely, was that the absence or presence of techniques such as Wavedashing (which is only the most known of a lot of advanced techniques)won't make much difference in the gap between casual players and dedicated players.

His point was, precisely, that it's the experience of fighting against many different people instead of your group of friends what gives you the skill to be an advancd player; wavedashing came later and was just secondary to this. He did NOT say that the knowledg of wavedashing was the ONLY difference between a bad and good player. If you understood that, you clearly didn't read well enough.

Saying that your lack of experience was due to your location or lack of money to travel is irrelevant to the discussion. And i must say that i agree with those basic points.

I, however, will still play Brawl probably with my family and friends only, i won't go to major tournies and will generally have a good time playing at a low level with items and Final Smashes On. I won't say that i'm better than the advanced players because obvously it won't be true, they will have much more battling experience than i will ever have.

So, both sides, please calm down. This was yet another unnecessary thread.