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Apex 2012 | CHECK OP FOR EVENT BRACKETS/POOLS | EVO 2012 QUALIFIER!

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PGH Carroll

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I mean I'm just saying.
I'm kinda turned off from going.. If I'm paying all this money to enter and make the trip just to waste Saturday by not being able to play, I might not come.

I'm by no means a big time player. To be completely honest, I probably won't make it out of first round pools. But players like me, Don't come to nationals to lose and sit out the rest of the tourney. We come to hang out and play melee till our fingers hurt against everyone and anyone.

What's the reward for bringing a setup anyway? If I lose that by not allowing it to be used for brawl I probably will just for the sake of friendlies and people getting to play. 20 setups for 300 people is absurd.

:phone:
 

Stealth Raptor

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i dont think EVERYONE is gonna sit at the venue and do friendlies. im sure just like genesis people will be playing at the hotel + eating out + hanging out with friends and what not, i highly doubt more then a hundred of either game will be present on the day they dont play
 

dmbrandon

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I mean I'm just saying.
I'm kinda turned off from going.. If I'm paying all this money to enter and make the trip just to waste Saturday by not being able to play, I might not come.

I'm by no means a big time player. To be completely honest, I probably won't make it out of first round pools. But players like me, Don't come to nationals to lose and sit out the rest of the tourney. We come to hang out and play melee till our fingers hurt against everyone and anyone.
Just so you know, if this was last year's schedule, and last year's rules, if you were out round 1 pools, you were done playing for almost the entire weekend. (EDIT: This is true for most majors.) Trust in the fact that you'll play. And really, you should be trying to play both games. Some people like to say one is better than the other, but the people who have the most fun are the people who play the most games. Don't artificially limit yourself.
 

GDX

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reward for a setup is the tourney finishing in time

dont worry about it bro. Brawl players arent playing on Friday at all. Just go play friendlies/hang out in NYC/hotel/MMs or something. Thats what I plan to do on Friday

well, that and pokemon
 

stingers

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Common sense time: if people bring setups, more people will be able to play friendlies.

So if you think of *****ing, just say something about bringing setups instead, and make the tourney a lil bit better for everyone

:phone:
 

Bl@ckChris

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if theres really a max on friendly setups for the nonplaying game, it doesn't really matter how many are brought. it really was hard enough to play people at pound, and there were way more than 20 setups...hrmmm...

bout to see some monstrous rotations on those setups lol.
 

dmbrandon

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if theres really a max on friendly setups for the nonplaying game, it doesn't really matter how many are brought. it really was hard enough to play people at pound, and there were way more than 20 setups...hrmmm...

bout to see some monstrous rotations on those setups lol.
DEDICATED TO FREE PLAY. These will not be used for tourney at ALL.

Then again... either were pound 5's. :smirk:
 

PGH Carroll

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Just so you know, if this was last year's schedule, and last year's rules, if you were out round 1 pools, you were done playing for almost the entire weekend. Trust in the fact that you'll play. And really, you should be trying to play both games. Some people like to say one is better than the other, but the people who have the most fun are the people who play the most games. Don't artificially limit yourself.
If I'm coming off as an ***hole I apologize.

But I've been playing melee for about 5 years. I'd rather not enter brawl to throw my money away to play a game Im not good at or enjoy. And usually the way tournament are set up, the people that play both don't have the most fun. Lol they have to constantly switch back and forth between them and whine about it. But i dont blame them because its a legitimate John. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only high level players that play both are M2K and DEHF right? Melee players play melee, and brawl players play brawl. Just the way it is.

The shedule is great for those that do play both. But isn't for the 90% (maybe 95%) that just play one game.

:phone:
 

GDX

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i dont see the problem with the schedule honestly. thats just me

also having 16 dedicated friendly setups is pretty legit.

As a person that plays only brawl, I approve of the schedule. AND i play AE/UMVC3 on Saturday as well...so I have nothing important Friday and like 3-4 games Saturday
 

Bl@ckChris

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well, the schedule isn't really a problem. the space isn't really a problem. fluidity of setups has always bothered me personally, as i just don't like the idea of what i brought not being used for what i brought it for, but if it's necessary to run something like this, then i'll just have to deal with it.

lets just hope less people want to play friendlies on saturday for melee than we think...then it won't be hard to play :)
 

GDX

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I always work under the rule of a TO of "use what I have, the most efficient way possible"

if they wanna use my wii for brawl one day and melee the next, then so be it. I really dont care at all :laugh:
 

Bl@ckChris

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so will there just be a cluster**** of discarded cubes in a corner during brawl, since wii's will be on the TV's?

that image makes me laugh a little.
 

PGH Carroll

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Like rom4 had about 25-30 setups for about 100 people and that was a really good ratio IMO.

But 20 for 300 is dumb.
And I'm not upset with the schedule. I'm just upset that after Friday I'll be 200 dollars broker and not even be able to play the game I love.

:phone:
 

Bl@ckChris

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well if brawl finishes super fast on saturday, maybe we can rehijack some of their tv's somehow.

if we overflow the place with TV's, we may be able to beat the system.

i think my car will have at least 2, maybe three. so i encourage every car who can do that, to do so. in the end, i guess it comes back to what stingers says.
 

Player-1

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Like rom4 had about 25-30 setups for about 100 people and that was a really good ratio IMO.

But 20 for 300 is dumb.
And I'm not upset with the schedule. I'm just upset that after Friday I'll be 200 dollars broker and not even be able to play the game I love.

:phone:
love brawl :troll:
 

DRDN

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A good reason for seperating the days apex 2010 brawl having to wait what like an hour for M2K to finish his melee....(were going to have him go straight to fighting brood)....wait another half hour while M2K warms up to brawl again...

Although it was worht the wait to take away one of M2Ks johns for the loss this solves the problem right away
 

z00ted

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Some of you guys need to resize your signatures.
It messes up pages for people who use the Revolution skin.

P-1 / GDX :c
 

PGH Carroll

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Yeah **** the other 299 melee players just as long as m2k is satisfied.

Cmon now.

I'm really not trying to get on anyone's bad side or just be an ***hole. But this tourney has the potential to be the best tourney ever. It seems like your catering to the people to play both melee and brawl and the best players. Remember, with out us lower/avarage level players this tourney isn't successful.

IMO setups have always been the responsibility of the players. If melee doesn't have enough setups it's on the melee players. Same with brawl. No one brings a just a tv and says "yeah just use this for what ever."

:phone:
 

da K.I.D.

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Im not staff but im typically a bit more tactful than DM so lemme try this:

I mean I'm just saying.
I'm kinda turned off from going.. If I'm paying all this money to enter and make the trip just to waste Saturday by not being able to play, I might not come.
If anything is making you second guess your decision to come, than that means you probably dont understand the real scope of how huge and amazing this tourney is going to be.
Trust me, your not going to want to miss this just because you may or may not get in as many games as you want on 1 day of the 3 day tournament.

I'm by no means a big time player. To be completely honest, I probably won't make it out of first round pools. But players like me, Don't come to nationals to lose and sit out the rest of the tourney. We come to hang out and play melee till our fingers hurt against everyone and anyone.
This is actually why the staff made the provision to provide you with set ups for that express purpose. They are specifically looking out for people like you. You may not see/understand it now but you will if you just show up and stop being so apprehensive.

if theres really a max on friendly setups for the nonplaying game, it doesn't really matter how many are brought. it really was hard enough to play people at pound, and there were way more than 20 setups...hrmmm...

bout to see some monstrous rotations on those setups lol.
Theres also the fact that even when you did get a free set up at pound it was almost impossible to get a full set, let alone one game in with somebody before you got hit with an 'yo i need this set up for a tourney match...'
If I'm coming off as an ***hole I apologize.

But I've been playing melee for about 5 years. I'd rather not enter brawl to throw my money away to play a game Im not good at or enjoy. And usually the way tournament are set up, the people that play both don't have the most fun. Lol they have to constantly switch back and forth between them and whine about it. But i dont blame them because its a legitimate John. Correct me if I'm wrong but the only high level players that play both are M2K and DEHF right? Melee players play melee, and brawl players play brawl. Just the way it is.
This is way off base. First of all, theres way more games than just melee brawl, which is i think part of what DM was getting at. watch some marvel, play some street fighter, hell get a look at the pokemon tournament. expand your horizons, you might like something more than you thought you would.

second, the whole switching games every 5 minutes is part of the reason they decided to run all of melee on friday and all of brawl on sat.

next, there are a bunch of very good melee players that play brawl and vice versa. Vex and hungrybox are the first names that come to mind. More than anything it mostly boils down to melee being half people that play brawl and like melee more, and half people that are just brawl haters, and brawl being half people that play melee and like brawl more, and half people that just dont know how to play melee.

lastly, theres no such thing as a legitamate john =P

The shedule is great for those that do play both. But isn't for the 90% (maybe 95%) that just play one game.

:phone:
you should look at the registration list of people that are entering melee and brawl in some fashion, i think youd be surprised.
i dont see the problem with the schedule honestly. thats just me

also having 16 dedicated friendly setups is pretty legit.

As a person that plays only brawl, I approve of the schedule. AND i play AE/UMVC3 on Saturday as well...so I have nothing important Friday and like 3-4 games Saturday
yea man, saturday is gonne be rough lol.
Like rom4 had about 25-30 setups for about 100 people and that was a really good ratio IMO.

But 20 for 300 is dumb.
And I'm not upset with the schedule. I'm just upset that after Friday I'll be 200 dollars broker and not even be able to play the game I love.

:phone:
I wont speak about ROM in absolutes because I wasnt there. But to my knowledge, Apex is the first smash tournament to have DEDICATED friendly set ups. im not sure if you understand the implications of that, so let me break it down for you.

out of those 25 setups, how many times did those 100 people get booted off the set ups for people that had tournament matches? Im guessing a lot because it happens at EVERY tournament.

Its really not going to be 300 people waiting to play on 20 set ups like you imagine.

Out of those 300 people, at any given point in time, Id say about half of those people are going to be playing/watching tournament matches.
and out of the 150 that left, about half of them probably play brawl too and will be playing brawl friendlies.

That leaves 75 dedicated melee people to split up 20 set ups right? Pretty good ratio, better then the rom one you just gave me.

And thats not even including the fact of how people are going to be constantly going in and out for food and other things. Or how the tournament set ups are going to open up for friendlies after the tournament starts wearing down... All things considered, you really dont have anything to worry about. Just chill out, show up and enjoy yourself. Theres no point in worrying about goofy stuff thats already taken care of, feel me?
 

Roller

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Just follow the grime...
If we're lucky we can also beat Pound 4's 350ish they had for Melee but with Brawl numbers.
Considering how many people habitually register for nationals on the 2 nights immediately before the deadline, myself included, I think It's entirely possible we get 400+ for Brawl alone.
Haha it's going to be crazy in pools.
So we're at the point now where for each new player that registers for Brawl Singles, one more R1 pool will be a 5-man pool. If we crack 320, we'll start to see 6-man pools! Yikes...
^^^ SOMEONE TELL ME IF THIS IS CORRECT. If so that suckkkks. But I get the feeling just more pools would be added or something...

Welp all I can say is let's see what alex can do seeding wise to make it not so bad. I'm guessing the success got bigger then even he thought
He's just seeding off of qualifier points so far as I can tell. Can DM or Chain-ace or someone confirm whether the rest of the players are all being randomly seeded, or if respected members from each region are being contacted to make the rest of the seeding more accurate.
What's the status on pools?
We've got the seeding points all tallied up from all the qualifiers, and pools will be set up and posted asap AFTER the registration deadline.
So should I take this to mean only seeding pont recipients will be seeded?

Not complaining if that's the case, as I'd understand. Just asking.
im personally hyped for smaller pools

less room for error, but better able to focus during the entire pool. Plus, 6 man pools take FOREVER jeez. *****s bored by the time its 70% done
It sounds like there's a chance we could be doing 6 man pools tho, from Firefly's post.
4 people in a pool means there are 6 games per pool, with half making it out. 6 player pools means that 15 sets per pool are to be played, with half making it out. the numbers are there.

Two rounds of pools is 6 sets, into bracket to top 8. This should be less than what you're used to.
So are 5-6 man pools (still with the top 2 advancing) not happening? Could someone list the numbers of players which would cause each scenario if 5-6 man pools are the case?
 

dmbrandon

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Players with seeding points in respective order > top players without seeding points seeded according to region > everyone else.
 

PGH Carroll

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@ kid

Every national has always had setups for both and have always been seperated. Its been said a million times but if I bring a setup for the game I play, it should stay for the game I play. I shouldn't be punished because I only play one game. And don't get me wrong. I won't be playing 24/7. You honestly can't. But I do play want to play friendlies for most of the day. Because that's what I payed for. In my spare time yeah, I'll check out Pokemon and brawl and whatever.

But if you think that only 75 people will be using those 20 setups your dumb. We have people coming from around the world. Spending all sorts of money to play that game. Your gonna tell armada On Saturday "well why don't you go watch brawl or enter an other game?"

Get real.

How many TVs will be provided by VG boot camp?
Those Tvs should go to the side events so that melee setups can stay melee set ups and brawl setups stay brawl set ups.

:phone:
 

dmbrandon

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You can't even be serious at this point. Someone is gonna come into my house with a suitcase full of money, and tell me he has a business deal soon. This isn't even a troll, it's a con; I'm a sucker.
 

da K.I.D.

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@ kid

Every national has always had setups for both and have always been seperated. Its been said a million times but if I bring a setup for the game I play, it should stay for the game I play. I shouldn't be punished because I only play one game. And don't get me wrong. I won't be playing 24/7. You honestly can't. But I do play want to play friendlies for most of the day. Because that's what I payed for. In my spare time yeah, I'll check out Pokemon and brawl and whatever.
1. If you bring a setup It probably will, youre over thinking just because they said 'if we get into a bad spot, we'll have to use whatever resources we have to ensure that the tourney runs on schedule' which in all fairness SHOULD be the first priority right? But odds are, things arent going to get that desperate and nobodys even going to touch your tv/set up.

2. Every national has always had seperated set ups for both games, yes. But this is the first national I will have been to, where I can find a spot, sit down for a money match and be completely sure that im not going to get kicked off of it for a money match due to being dedicated friendly set ups in addition to the tourney devoted ones.

I mean, I have a money match with Prawn from 09 that I still havent finished because every tournament ive ever been to with him (like 5 now) i get cut off game 1 for a tournament match.

But if you think that only 75 people will be using those 20 setups your dumb. We have people coming from around the world. Spending all sorts of money to play that game. Your gonna tell armada On Saturday "well why don't you go watch brawl or enter an other game?"
Hell. Yes. Armada is probably one of the best combinations of intelligence, technical skill and reactions Ive ever seen, so hell yes, i would tell him to go check out street fighter. because that game would honestly imo be really good for him. People come to play their games, but Im going to be watching SF finals just as closely as Melee finals.

All things considered, if youre youre that worried about 'wasting your money' you might be better off staying home. Its gonna be a great tournament but I dont think the staff is trying to put people in the poor house just to play a game.
Especially since the stream is free.

I can however guarantee you that if you go that route, youll be losing out on far more by not having this experience, than we will by not having your tv.
 

Mahone

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Why is everyone like brushing off Carroll?

I completely agree with him as someone who only plays melee.

First of all there are no pools for teams and there are only two rounds of pools for singles...

As someone who's just ok at this game i am not gonna play too many rounds in teams bracket and most likely won't make it out of 2nd round pools or possibly 1st if it ends up being a bad pool matchup/player wise...

I have already heard alex explain why all of that is how it is and its pretty obv. hes not changing it so thats whatever...

but i would like to at least be able to play friendlies with people once i am out of the tournament... I'm traveling a lot and paying a lot of money, i don't really wanna use this particular time to learn how to play pokemon or watch brawl and try to get into it...

It's like Carroll said... these tournaments are always about the best players and of course its important wants good for them, but you can't forget that scrubs are the ones that fill the pot and make the tournament possible... all we're asking is to be able to play friendlies i don't think its that ridiculous

Also about that math with the players per tv... there will definitely be more than 75 people at any given time... plus top players like pp and mango are just gonna take up setups playing each other and have no rotation like they always do (im not mad about this i actually love watching them as do most people so no one is gonna ask them to stop)... i figure pros will take away like 4 setups or something...
 

Mahone

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I was under the impression it was a space issue...

i dont think the tos should provide any more than 20.. that should be up to the melee players...

someone correct me if i was wrong about the issue
 

da K.I.D.

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It's like Carroll said... these tournaments are always about the best players and of course its important wants good for them, but you can't forget that scrubs are the ones that fill the pot and make the tournament possible... all we're asking is to be able to play friendlies i don't think its that ridiculous

Also about that math with the players per tv... there will definitely be more than 75 people at any given time... plus top players like pp and mango are just gonna take up setups playing each other and have no rotation like they always do (im not mad about this i actually love watching them as do most people so no one is gonna ask them to stop)... i figure pros will take away like 4 setups or something...
Im not brushing off Carroll, Im just saying that his qualms are unfounded. Since people seem to be forgetting that the 20 friendly set ups are IN ADDITION to the (I dont have a specific number but I know its high) tournament set ups that are going to be available. Instead of thinking about how theres only going to be 20 set ups for the 200 people not in the tournament at the time, it would be more accurate to think about any other smash national youve been to. AND THAN ADD TO THAT 20 extra set ups specifically designated for the people like you.

I would also like to point out that the two paragraphs above in the quotes slightly contradict each other.

Youre getting upset at the TOs and organisers about how you wont be able to play friendlies. But then you talk about how people are going to be hoarding the set ups and youre not willing to do anything about it.
 

ranmaru

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If anything is making you second guess your decision to come, than that means you probably dont understand the real scope of how huge and amazing this tourney is going to be.
Trust me, your not going to want to miss this just because you may or may not get in as many games as you want on 1 day of the 3 day tournament.
See, this is the problem. Major events take some $ and time to be able to get to... (you know that). So obviously, we would want to benefit the full 3 days. We are not coming all the way from some random place to only smash 2/3 days.

Basically, I don't come to just hang out in my hotel with friends. We could do that any day any where. We come for the event, and the chance to play with others from other places.

Now, I'm not biased. I'm sure Brawlers will feel the same way. They are also having 2/3. So I guess this means we each have to play ALOT more melee/brawl on the respective days if we want to have the full effect...

But the question is can we get more melee/brawl in one day?

I sometimes get so much smash I want to go to sleep, and want to continue the next day.


This is actually why the staff made the provision to provide you with set ups for that express purpose. They are specifically looking out for people like you. You may not see/understand it now but you will if you just show up and stop being so apprehensive.
Him not understanding is not his problem, so telling him to come and just see won't work. I think it would help if you would try to get him to understand if you can see he doesn't.

Theres also the fact that even when you did get a free set up at pound it was almost impossible to get a full set, let alone one game in with somebody before you got hit with an 'yo i need this set up for a tourney match...'
Really? I remember getting aloottt of friendlies in. I even stayed up late to take advantage of friendlies.

second, the whole switching games every 5 minutes is part of the reason they decided to run all of melee on friday and all of brawl on sat.
I don't understand why the two rooms thing didn't work. I felt it was pretty awesome. I'd get my fill in for melee, and then I'd go play a lil brawl for fun.

next, there are a bunch of very good melee players that play brawl and vice versa. Vex and hungrybox are the first names that come to mind. More than anything it mostly boils down to melee being half people that play brawl and like melee more, and half people that are just brawl haters, and brawl being half people that play melee and like brawl more, and half people that just dont know how to play melee.

lastly, theres no such thing as a legitamate john =P
2-4 people aren't alot. Not fair for the rest of us. : P


And thats not even including the fact of how people are going to be constantly going in and out for food and other things. Or how the tournament set ups are going to open up for friendlies after the tournament starts wearing down... All things considered, you really dont have anything to worry about. Just chill out, show up and enjoy yourself. Theres no point in worrying about goofy stuff thats already taken care of, feel me?
I don't think people go constantly. It's just "Oh hey did you eat? nah I didn't" and we go eat, and come back. We don't go constantly, we want to play as much as possible.

About the tournament wearing down... I'm not sure it will on the first two days (for either Brawl or Melee) since it will be focused on one game during that day. Meaning it'll take a looonng while to finish. By the time it does, we might want to sleep.

I think this is something that warrants some worry about this.
 

PGH Carroll

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First off i wanna say,
People go to smash tournaments to play smash.

If someones responds with the suggestion of playing or watching an other game I'm gonna go nuts.

Stop trying to force these side events down our throat.

Secondly. I'm under the impression that only 20 setups will be left on Saturday for melee. If thats not the case then tell me because I'm picturing about 50 player brought melee setups + maybe 10 venue tvs on Friday.
Let's say brawl players only bring 40 on Saturday. I have no problem with those venue Tvs switching over but taking all of those Tvs and leaving us with 20 would be unfair to us. We didnt bring them to not be able to play.

Please tell me that's not the case because that's what fired me up in the 1st place.

Us melee players just wanna play melee on saturday with a lot of setups available.

:phone:
 
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