Apex 2013 - Pools up in OP! - Only at the door for FGC!

[pidgezero_one]

2 stock is only a good idea for all-brawl

 

[Espy Rose]

Surviving is good.
But I'd much rather Brawl to survive well, Alph.
Brawl didn't end until 4am Monday morning. That is just unacceptable.

I agree with SB on the 2 stock thing. It's such a good idea that no TO has ever really bothered to consider.

 

[Alphicans]

It could've easily ended 3 hours earlier... Because it wasn't run as efficiently as possible.

Hype for efficiency was a trade off. I certainly enjoyed the hype, but that's because it was only 2am for me.

 

[Espy Rose]

Don't you dare justify it with the hype-train.
That'll only work for APEX.

 

[Alphicans]

I am not justifying anything, in fact if you read it's pretty clear I was against the decision to stream all of top8.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Consider a shortened timer instead of less stox

6 mins?

 

[Espy Rose]

Why not both?
Speaking of eight minutes, anyone here tally all of the time outs on stream? Kinda curious how many games hit that point.

 

[Alphicans]

The only thing that needed to be changed was running brawl while melee gf was going on, and not streaming every top8 match. The ruleset had nothing to do with this.

Note: I am not criticizing the event in any way... I think running it to 4am added a nice touch to it, but maybe that's just me. However, to those people that complain about the ruleset, their whining is founded in the wrong thing.

 

[GDX]

every brawl top 8 match was streamed though. do you mean melee not streaming their entire top 8?

 

[pidgezero_one]

Why not both? Because you don't actually see the effects of each when you apply both at the same time

Less stocks is crummy because it all but eliminates your comeback potential after early gimps and such, and that wouldn't be very entertaining. Not to mention you can still camp out 2 stocks over 8 mins when u have to

Shorter timer at least might encourage more aggressive play, and guarantee no Bo3 set goes beyond 20 mins

 

[Alphicans]

every brawl top 8 match was streamed though. do you mean melee not streaming their entire top 8?

The wording was a little weird, sorry.

I meant that brawl should've been run during melee GF AND every match of top8 shouldn't have been streamed.

 

[zmx]

Top 8 should definitely been streamed in its entirety. All the sets were hype and this Apex after all.

I do agree however, that the Brawl community should look into making 2 stocks with say a 5 minute timer the standard.

On a side note the funny thing is this would actually make ZSS even better.

Why not both? Because you don't actually see the effects of each when you apply both at the same time

Less stocks is crummy because it all but eliminates your comeback potential after early gimps and such, and that wouldn't be very entertaining. Not to mention you can still camp out 2 stocks over 8 mins when u have to

Shorter timer at least might encourage more aggressive play, and guarantee no Bo3 set goes beyond 20 mins

Actually it would make comebacks more feasible because at any given time you can only be down by 1 stocks at most as opposed to 2.

I've lost track of how many sets I've seen where the player finally started adapting while being 3 stocked eariler in the game to the point where they bring the game all the way back to final stock but it was too little too late.

And 3 stocks with a lower time limit would just encourage more timeouts since it'd be a lot easier to do.

 

[Seartu]

http://shoryuken.com/2013/01/13/apex-2013-streaming-live/

Smash was really well recepted by the FGC, check out the comments. Good job APEX. And enjoy this Smash/FGC fusion!

 

[GDX]

The wording was a little weird, sorry.

I meant that brawl should've been run during melee GF AND every match of top8 shouldn't have been streamed.

nah, the idea was correct. streaming all of top 8 was the right decision

should've just gotten to actual top 8 earlier than they did

 

[Alphicans]

I agree it was the right choice, but it was easy to shorten the time. Like if they were concerned about it going too late it was an EASY fix.

 

[pidgezero_one]

If it takes you until the 3rd stock to adapt, then 2 stocks isn't going to bring out your comeback

 

[zmx]

I agree it was the right choice, but it was easy to shorten the time. Like if they were concerned about it going too late it was an EASY fix.

The two problems were:

1. They had to wait until Melee finals finished because 8wayrun was to stream top 8 for Brawl and Melee GF also went to a second set.

2. Nearly all of top 8 went to the final game in the sets for Brawl resulting in far longer sets. There were basically no sweeps.

Neither of these seem to be issues that were avoidable tbh.

 

[ranmaru]

If it takes you until the 3rd stock to adapt, then 2 stocks isn't going to bring out your comeback

No comebacks, no hype. D:

 

[pidgezero_one]

No comebacks, no hype. D:

Yeah dude, sets where the winner is decided after the first stock are pretty underwhelming regardless of stock count

 

[Alphicans]

The two problems were:

1. They had to wait until Melee finals finished because 8wayrun was to stream top 8 for Brawl and Melee GF also went to a second set.

2. Nearly all of top 8 went to the final game in the sets for Brawl resulting in far longer sets. There were basically no sweeps.

Neither of these seem to be issues that were avoidable tbh.

1 - Well with foresight it should've been seen as a high possibility that melee would delay the progression of brawl bracket, so maybe 8wayrun streaming brawl was not an optimal decision

2 - Again foresight should assume that every game goes to its maximum length, and should be planned accordingly.

Idk it just looked like the staff wasn't too concerned with it going so late, and imo the lack of concern is justified, but again if there was concern, not streaming all of top8 was the best way to reduce ALOT of time.

 

[GDX]

like i said, the only way was to have the top 8 prepared earlier. The top 8 for brawl wasnt completely done when melee finished

or they could have done top 6 for both games. Either way I had a great time and it going until 4am reminded me of the 2008 local brawl tourney days that had like 100+ entrants and lasted until 5am

 

[ぱみゅ]

The thing I have with 3 stocks in Brawl is the margin of error.
It's just too wide, and people now can get away even after acting dumb during the whole match.

 

[WindMajor]

The ruleset has nothing to do with it, all that needs to be worked with is efficiency. Given that the tournament is APEX, one of the most hype Smash series in the planet, I really do not mind that they would sacrifice efficiency over hype. In fact I support it. I do think that Brawl should not have had to wait for Melee to finish so we can stream Top 8 on Jaxel's stream. Continuing the Top 8 on Chibo's stream would have not been a bad idea. Also it didn't have to be Top 8, it could have been Top6 and I would have been satisfied, given that at least the others would be captured/streamed somewhere as well. Also people could have been yelled at a bit more. :D

Anyways, point is that you should make a realistic schedule and follow it. The realistic schedule was made (could have been better), the whole following part could have been worked on a bit more.

 

[Espy Rose]

The rule set has plenty to do with time management Twink. How can you even say that?

 

[TeSik]

I'm having a random thought and I'm just gonna write it out.

How about just cutting the other games a little on APEX? I'm not hating on the other games and everything seemed to go well, but it's mainly a smash event nonetheless. It could save time in terms of more setups being avaible and the events would go faster in general. I don't know whether the amount of time saved would even be worth mentioning though, and whether it would be fair at all for the respective communities.

On a second note, APEX 2013 was mad hype to watch on the stream and I greatly enjoyed it. I feel like APEX has managed, somehow, to settle itself as THE international event that every smasher in the world is looking forward to.

I went to APEX last year and it was already an experience I'll never ever forget, and from what I've seen here, this year's APEX surpassed the last one. By a lot. That goes for both Melee and Brawl. I really hope I can come over again for 2014.

There's still another question I have: ****, where is the Melee bracket image?

 

[Strong Badam]

Yes as efficiently as possible.... What are you talking about???

Brawl was hype as ****, so I don't see the ruleset as a problem at all in regards to the game surviving.

ignoring the fact that finals happened at 3:30 am?

 

[stingers]

smashers are insomniacs anyway.
who the **** cares.
studies have shown that people perform better at creative tasks when they are more tired anyway. smash is certainly a creative task, so maybe all tourneys should finish at 3 AM, got to have that max level play you know?
tourney was awesome, rulesets not going to change 5 years into the games lifespan, get over it, appreciate what we've got and move on

 

[WindMajor]

@strongbad Ignoring the fact that efficiency was a legitimate issue?

@Espy: Ruleset affects it obviously, but changing the ruleset this dramatically for the sake of time management is not even worth considering IMO, especially when the main issue was clearly efficiency.

 

[W.C.N]

Changing the ruleset is a bad idea,

The hype was worth the wait,

Brawl top 8 was waiting on Melee to finish and could have been done on chibos stream but I think Alex believed brawl deserved to be on the main stage

Dabuz stalled things out too but not as much as everything else

IMO the biggest thing to work on is optimizing the space, the artist alley needs to go somewhere else and the area where the 64 setups were needed to be more used

 

[AllyKnight]

Espy dude just cut it out.

 

[Qual_]

Great tournament, but why there wasn't any bracket for viewers ?

50% of chat asked " Where is the bracket, where is the bracket"

A shame for a big tournament like Apex.

 

[Apasher]

I went last year. I'm pretty sure I knew what I wasn't experiencing, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that being here at home, watching it on livestream, was infinitely more enjoyable.

Did you seriously expect the Apex staff to repeat all of their mistakes? Did it ever come to your mind that they could, oh I don't know, LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES?

There is so much wrong with your logic, it's not even funny.

And I love how you're nitpicking when you didn't even go to the tournament.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I don't know all of you, but rulesets are not set on stone.
Changing is often not bad, specially if you're changing in order to optimize what you already have.

Brawl can still be hype without taking 18-25 minutes per set

 

[WindMajor]

I agree, it's just better left for smaller tournaments.

 

[Eddie G]

Espy is just being a naysayer and a Debbie Downer no matter what the circumstances are. What else is new?

 

[B_AWAL]

http://shoryuken.com/2013/01/13/apex-2013-streaming-live/

Smash was really well recepted by the FGC, check out the comments. Good job APEX. And enjoy this Smash/FGC fusion!

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!



edit: Nairo uses MARTH!?!

 

[Espy Rose]

I don't know all of you, but rulesets are not set on stone.
Changing is often not bad, specially if you're changing in order to optimize what you already have.

Brawl can still be hype without taking 18-25 minutes per set

This, more or less.
Eddie stop stalking me please, or else I'll report you for harassment to the officials of Smash World Forums.

@Twink: I agree with the notion, but I just also really wanna see how a major tournament would turn out if they just stopped giving the possibility a cold shoulder.

 

[KageMurphy]

stocks ain't changing, shut up lol

 

[Espy Rose]

I bet they said the same thing when Brawl came out.
I don't think I can even imagine 4 stock Brawl matches anymore.

 

[Strong Badam]

@strongbad Ignoring the fact that efficiency was a legitimate issue?

the only issue that occurred with efficiency was waiting until after melee finals were over to stream the entire top 8. that isn't problematic. in every other instance, matches were occurring basically back to back to back.

Streaming the entire top 8 of the big smash tourney we have once every year is strictly necessary, sorry man. There's no way around it, and that should be obvious to you.

stocks ain't changing, shut up lol

What a convincing argument!