Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[-LzR-]

Actually we are loaded with those.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Just keep spamming spaced dsmash if you're really at a loss. Or run around spamming upsmash. I usually try to bait airdodge or roll. Or I run away then fsmash back if they chase.

 

[-LzR-]

Just keep in mind that our smashes are not actually safe, they are just scary.

 

[Damittom]

Nah man best kill combo Up smash on shield to Down smash. Most people will think they can do a hard punish on the Up smash and over estimate the lag resulting in a sweet spot down smash. However, this will only work once maybe twice and only if they don't know the match-up

 

[Dexident]

I like Damitton's combo a lot. I think it's one that I have pulled many times without ever thinking about it.

When landing forward smashes I usually try and read a roll or spotdodge. But I land most of my f-smashes by simply throwing them out at random times. For instance if an opponent is approaching me with the intent to dash attack you can just throw one out at the right time for the unexpecting KO. But of course they always require good reads.

Holding up-smash is always a good idea. People expect c-stick mashers and if you hold a smash they often times will over-commit with thinking too far ahead to punishing your would-have-been c-stick mash.

A personal favorite of mine (that is extremely unsafe to pull with any regularity) is roll --> d-smash. I'm not sure why it lands as often as it does but it seems that many opponents rush to punish our laggy roll and in the process they don't expect a sweet spotted d-smash.

My playing style mostly plays off the fact that people expect to punish our laggy moves. I always d-air just out of punishing range so that people will miss a punish, allowing me to punish their missed punish.

Of course, all this might be moot at the top tiers of tournament play, but it works consistently for me.

 

[-LzR-]

Damittoms setup sounds awesome. I'm sure even good players will fall for it sometimes and it makes them scared even if they shield usmash. And when they catch on and expect the dsmash, you can just upB away without punishment.

And if the opponent doesn't use many defensive moves like spotdodges, airdodges or rolls it's going to be extremely hard to land smashes against good opponents. Fortunately G&W is awesome at messing with their opponent and causing them to do that anyways.

 

[LinkinHand]

Also a good punish and kill at very high % is to do a full jump and dair
Most of my opponents do a get up attack and then my dair hits every time. Only a roll will save them. Every other thing will push them back offstage i believe (if they shield it)
And yeah what the others said. Just charging randomly Smashes will punish their rolls or spotdodges also because our smashes last that long

 

[xzx]

Uh, not a question, but:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=319826&page=50

We Warios are currently discussing you, so a ratio + an input on this MU would be appreciated!

 

[crow95]

Yo what sexy stuff has G&W against MKs nado? I dont figure it out myself

 

[UTDZac]

Oldie but goodie,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1wub4Jg8dY

 

[crow95]

So we are abusing G&Ws Windboxen against the nado? Thanks Zac!
Another one: What are his best options out of shield? I really like UpB and Shielddrop-Downtilt but maybe I am missing some good one?

 

[-LzR-]

If you can't shieldgrab or do something else awesome, upB and wait for a better opportunity really. UpB might even hit which is actually useful.

 

[LinkinHand]

OOuuh JJ come on u don't really post in here? Haha XD
Crow is a ****ing Oli hate him
(don't worry he's in my crew)
XD

 

[SFA Smiley]

So we are abusing G&Ws Windboxen against the nado? Thanks Zac!
Another one: What are his best options out of shield? I really like UpB and Shielddrop-Downtilt but maybe I am missing some good one?

I <3 Dash attack OOS

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I <3 getting grabbed

This is what I see.

 

[SFA Smiley]

This is what I see.

I don't blindly dash attack every move if the opponent uses a move that you know is unsafe on shield you can use it.

I can't think right now but I use it on snake all the time, I wanna say Ftilt2 on shield because it's the easier option late into the game when you can't afford to make as many mistakes.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I always feel like ftilt2 is harder to punish than ftilt1, maybe it's because it's easier to just ps the first part then dtilt and if that clanks with ftilt2 just roll away.

 

[Alphicans]

It can't clank with ftilt2. Crazy how you came up with a response to that.

EDIT: And the response to the impossible scenario is to roll. GaWs worst evading option :/.

EDIT2: lol that reply I sound like an *******. Really didn't mean for it to come across that way, just funny observations that I actually understand.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yoooo 2D terrors~

Question. If the opponent techs your down throw and rolls to the sides, can you still punish it? I main lucario btw, just incase the frame data for roll teching matters.

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, we can punish all options. We just can't simply dsmash or fsmash you in that case. Don't always tech. For some reason many still think that teching the throw means you get away with it. I can't remember how long Lucarios techroll was, but assuming it's Lucario, I'd say quite long. Fair and regrab do work on all characters though.

 

[Sar]

Hey guys, I've been lurking the G&W boards for forever (I remember when Zac was king and before Vinnie switched to IC's) and I finally decided to make an account. I play G&W pretty exclusively, but have never been in a tournament before or anything like that.

So my first question: Is it worth it to bucket brake to avoid getting killed off the top of the stage? I see some G&W's do it, but my impression is that it's useless and I usually just dair to try to cancel upwards momentum.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Dair is the worst thing you can do, it doesn't slow momentum. In order: Nair>Bucket, Uair>Bucket, Nair, Uair, Bair, Fair, Dair, Airdodge

I think that's the right order, but yeah, always try to Fast Fall your nair and then bucket brake.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dair is the worst thing you can do, it doesn't slow momentum. In order: Nair>Bucket, Uair>Bucket, Nair, Uair, Bair, Fair, Dair, Airdodge

I think that's the right order, but yeah, always try to Fast Fall your nair and then bucket brake.

It doesn't?

It does for other characters with stall then falls soI don't see why our's wouldnt

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Nair>Bucket usually isn't fast enough to keep us from dying off the top, dair cancels less momentum but cancels it faster. It's generally preference IMO because I've never really felt like I "saved" myself from dying off the top by bucket braking or dairing. Okay "never" is a lie, but it is a pretty rare occurrence for me.

 

[-LzR-]

When going upwards it doesn't matter what aerial you use. What matters is that you must fastfall. Dair automatically fastfalls which is why it's usually useful. Bucketbraking can in fact save us from above too but the effect isn't great. If you don't want to dair for some reason, hold the control stick down and input any aerial other than nair using the cstick and you will buffer a fastfall.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I was under the understanding that stall-then-fall moves did not slow momentum, and if it did, wouldn't it not fastfall until the falling part comes out? So then it is would be slower than the other options.

 

[-LzR-]

Because it's a dair it will fastfall if you use the cstick. It just doesn't include the momentum shifting part so it doesn't break the game, but dair is usually the go to move to use when flying upwards.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Hmm i always try to cstick up analog down, its faster and a good doubles habit.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Yes, we can punish all options. We just can't simply dsmash or fsmash you in that case. Don't always tech. For some reason many still think that teching the throw means you get away with it. I can't remember how long Lucarios techroll was, but assuming it's Lucario, I'd say quite long. Fair and regrab do work on all characters though.

Mmhmm~

Lucario ground tech roll covers alot of distance unsurprisingly~
I did a few test myself, and it seems he rolls waaay far enough to escape a d-smash or f-smash. But...I still think if he reads where we go he can get a f-air or run up grab punish.

There may be other punishes to, but I don't know G&W at all. I was actually put into losers in a tourney awhile ago by a strong game and watch player. Kinda opened my eyes how little I really know about what he's capable of. Hell, I didn't even know n-air to d-smash was so legit...yowch.

I got a few more things on my mind honestly.

For example, how punishable are his d-smash, and n-air? They seem really hard to punish properly when they're spaced right. Atleast for lucario. He really doesn't have any quick burst range moves to deal with a spaced d-smash. I can't even punish with an f-tilt or dash attack at max range. Just curious. I wanna know if its atleast punishable by a fully charged aurasphere. A fully charged aurasphere comes out at 8 frames while f-tilt comes out at 12 I think. The difference is slight, but if aurasphere could punish that'd make a huge difference for me.

 

[-LzR-]

Dsmash should be punishable, you just need to be fast. And don't worry, I don't think G&W has enough time at all to get his bucket out when you AS oos at close range.
Nair is pretty safe so unless it's badly spaced and you can shieldgrab I would be very careful. Just play incredibly defensive and don't shoot too much AS and you should do just fine. I keep losing to careful Lucarios...

 

[Sar]

Mmhmm~

Lucario ground tech roll covers alot of distance unsurprisingly~
I did a few test myself, and it seems he rolls waaay far enough to escape a d-smash or f-smash. But...I still think if he reads where we go he can get a f-air or run up grab punish.

I think there was a debate about this pretty recently on the G&W boards. GIMR made a metagame minute about our nair tech chase. It seems like we can punish lucario's techroll every time if done properly. Look at 1:30 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrg4NZ_Z_tQ

 

[Sunnysunny]

Dsmash should be punishable, you just need to be fast. And don't worry, I don't think G&W has enough time at all to get his bucket out when you AS oos at close range.
Nair is pretty safe so unless it's badly spaced and you can shieldgrab I would be very careful. Just play incredibly defensive and don't shoot too much AS and you should do just fine. I keep losing to careful Lucarios...

Ahhh thanks~ Nah, don't worry, I use FCAS up close and only during a bait or frame trap against the likes of G&W. Just looked up the frame data. His d-smash isn't punishable sadly, even by fully charged aurasphere after shield drop. (a single frame away...) ._. But I can set up some shield pressure with f-tilt at the least.

EDIT: Oh oh wait! Maybe an aurawalk'd D-air could punish it! Hold up, gotta go test this. Thanks again~

I think there was a debate about this pretty recently on the G&W boards. GIMR made a metagame minute about our nair tech chase. It seems like we can punish lucario's techroll every time if done properly. Look at 1:30 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrg4NZ_Z_tQ

Waaah its true... I just did a frame data run on this.
He hits with the 4th hit of n-air right? So, adding the jump squat he should hit us on the 28th frames. Universally, all tech rolls are 40 frames. Grah, I didn't wanna believe it.

Lucario's only hittable on tech roll though right? I guess I can deal with that. Between Nuetral tech, back, and forward tech thats a 1/3 chance odds I escape if he commits to the n-air tech chase. Thats not too shabby.

Still 40 frames? I never knew the tech roll took that long. Sounds like ya'll can punish with alot then if ya guess right.

Guess the best thing to do is just straight up not get grabbed. Ha.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

Aura is pretty ****ing broken against G&W. If you know how to SDI bair there's really not much G&W can do to you in the air other than upb because dair's horizontal range is so gay.

 

[Sar]

So I've realized that in my playstyle I never really use judgement (maybe once every 20 matches). I reserve it as a taunting gesture that I pull out when I am so far ahead I don't have to worry anymore. From a competitive standpoint, that's probably all it should be anyways, right?

Still, I do want to use it a little bit more for novelty sake. The 9 hammer is essentially a G&W trademark. Are there any situations that you guys find yourself using the hammer often? For instance, a hammer against snake's UpB seems to hit almost every time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ecF4goNEBw&t=137

Any other good setups/scenarios?

 

[SFA Smiley]

So I've realized that in my playstyle I never really use judgement (maybe once every 20 matches). I reserve it as a taunting gesture that I pull out when I am so far ahead I don't have to worry anymore. From a competitive standpoint, that's probably all it should be anyways, right?

Still, I do want to use it a little bit more for novelty sake. The 9 hammer is essentially a G&W trademark. Are there any situations that you guys find yourself using the hammer often? For instance, a hammer against snake's UpB seems to hit almost every time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ecF4goNEBw&t=137

Any other good setups/scenarios?

You're talking to THE Side-B spamming Gdubs =)

Honestly I use it as a low% punish as much as possible, My playstyle revolves around using Judgement in creative ways. Although I'm moving to a safermore conservative playstyle for my own good and the request of others that want to see me blossom as a player =)

But yeah Snake during Up-B, fsmash, out of mortarslides
Marth after whiffed Up-Bs
MKs after Uairing him for something dumb
Falcos out of side-b or up-b
Diddys after a trip or reading a side-b

those are some common high tier opportunities, sorta obvious but pointing them out

I also use it as a tech chase, I tech chased a 9 on a samus on wifi like a week ago lol
Practice the timing for 8>9 so if you 8 someone at low percent you get a freebie chance at it. Also 2s can trip and combo into 9s as well.

Really useful hammer are 3s (deplete shield so you can spam bair easier), 5s can be followed by dash attacks very often, or charged upsmashes if the person is dumb/panics, 6s can KO and generally put you in a sweet position, 8s give you free Fairs, dairs, nairs, and 6s or 9s. And 9s are obvious. You're sorta flipping a coin everytime though because if your side-b hits their shield you can hurt for it pretty bad, don't use it at dangerous percents unless you REALLY feel it and know that it wont demotivate you if you get punished for a dumb hammer.

The first hammer of the match has a 1/7 opportunity of getting a 9 so it's worth using at least ONCE a match at least. If you get ahead or wanna risk it. Make sure you unstale it though, it DOES get stale and it really sucks when you've been spamming it so hard that when you finally do get your 9 it doesnt KO.

 

[-LzR-]

Shortly though, sideB is mostly a worthless move. If someone like Marth whiffs an upB at low % it might be worth it to attempt a 9, but if it fails, you missed a big punish opportunity and now struggle again. I should use it way less it's bad.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Shortly though, sideB is mostly a worthless move. If someone like Marth whiffs an upB at low % it might be worth it to attempt a 9, but if it fails, you missed a big punish opportunity and now struggle again. I should use it way less it's bad.

Not necessarily however

If you get a 2 (on the ground),6,8, or 9 you get either a decent punish or another opportunity at a punish..or a one-hit ko

at low percent none of those are really too devastating for you, and the psychological rage factor you get from a 9 could potentially give you momentum for an entire match/set.

Also 5's can often be followed up, 3's are pretty hard to punish because they flip the opponent in the opposite direction, 4s are boring and 7s are just funny. 1s do indeed suck.

But yeah i'm a very frequent advocate of side-b, if you remember that there's more to it than just a 9 you chances aren't that bad to really do something with it. You do have to take risks but thats a playstyle thing, I already take a lot so i'm never really devastated by getting something bad on a side-b

edit: but yes it's... I dunno, I don't feel comfortable saying it's bad. It's just very very situational, but the payoff exists that makes the move worth using at least at a minimum.

 

[LinkinHand]

You can use side b in a team-Match in a 2-1 Situation. But only if your opponent has low %
Otherwise i also should try the Hammer more often.
But the best thing is when you know the habits of your opponent if he rolls often or whatever and punish this with a 9

 

[-LzR-]

The Hammer is almost worthless. Unless you get 9 it's most of the time a really really big risk for a meh reward.

 

[Sar]

What do you follow up a 2 with? dtilt? SH nair? I never ever hammer so i really don't even know how much knockback it has.