BBR Recommended Rule List v2.0 & General Ruleset Discussion

[Master JBone07]

What does it mean by "Stalling", "Counter-pick", & "Double blind character selection may be called" mean? I new to the tournament rules, as I never been in one. My friend came over one day and goes by tournament rules in the U.S. Also, he said you can't be Snake in legal tournaments. Is this true?

 

[Ussi]

Stalling is wasting time either by doing an infinite past 300% or by being unreachable for a prolonged period of time.

Counterpick is when the loser of the last match played picks a stage from the acceptable stages allowed.

Double blind is when the two players pick their characters without knowing what the other picked. A Judge moderates it.

Lmao Snake will never be banned from tournaments least anytime soon. Your friend is being a scrub or is misinformed

 

[Master JBone07]

Here are Gamespot's Super Smash Bros. Brawl Fight or Flight Tournament Finals Rules:

-Four (4) stock for each player

-Each player gets to choose any of the 35 characters (no banned characters)

-Each player gets to choose any of the 41 stages (one [1] stage per player).

-Items set to Med/All except for the following:

-Smart Bomb
-Bob-omb
-Golden Hammer
- Hammer
-Starman

-In the event of a tie, players go to Sudden Death with the rules above except that each player has only one (1) stock. First player out comes in Third Place (3rd Place), second player out comes in Second Place (2nd Place), and the last one standing is the champion (1st Place).

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Also what are the banned stages & characters in Brawl. So far I'm playing with the following rules from Gamespot's Super Smash Bros. Brawl Fight or Flight Tournament Finals:

-Each player gets to choose their own character & stage (no banned stages or counterpicks)

-4 stock for each player

-Items set to Med/All except for the following:

-Smart Bomb
-Bob-omb
-Golden Hammer
- Hammer
-Starman

-In the event of a tie, players go to Sudden Death with the rules above except that each player has only one stock. First player out comes in Third Place, second player out comes in Second Place, and the last one standing is the champion.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7186431&postcount=1

 

[-Vocal-]

BBR Recommended Rule List v2.0

This is the ruleset used for tournaments, with slight variations according to tournament organizer preference.

 

[Master JBone07]

My friend's like that all the time. He thinks he can win in a national tournament with Fox, and I think he can, because he is a very good Smash Bros. player. He just has to follow tournament rules.Heck, I'm a good Brawl player myself, but not as good as my friend.

 

[-Vocal-]

If you guys are still playing with items, he's not going to be winning anything anytime soon Also, welcome to Smashboards, hope you like it here. Oh yea, and try not to post your opinion on anything until you've been around at least two weeks or I can guarantee someone will jump on you for being a scrub Again, welcome.

 

[Master JBone07]

What does "infinite" mean in tournaments?

 

[Ussi]

Also, don't claim anything about winning anything.. people will just laugh at you


ONLY 1vs1 battles too (or 2vs2 with team attack on)

Infinite is what it is. It's something that doesn't end

 

[Master JBone07]

Thanks

If you guys are still playing with items, he's not going to be winning anything anytime soon Also, welcome to Smashboards, hope you like it here. Oh yea, and try not to post your opinion on anything until you've been around at least two weeks or I can guarantee someone will jump on you for being a scrub Again, welcome.

Thank you, -Vocal-!!

 

[-Vocal-]

What does "infinite" mean in tournaments?

Simply by standing, hitting the grab button, pummeling once, down throwing, and hitting the grab button again without moving, King DDD can chaingrab Luigi, regardless of what percent he's at. This is an example of an infinite.

 

[Master JBone07]

What are the banned stages & characters in Brawl?

 

[Chuee]

banned characters: None
banned stages: depends on the tourny

 

[Master JBone07]

I'm talking about the MLG Tournament.

 

[Masky]

My friend's like that all the time. He thinks he can win in a national tournament with Fox, and I think he can, because he is a very good Smash Bros. player. He just has to follow tournament rules.Heck, I'm a good Brawl player myself, but not as good as my friend.

i love you

 

[Mr.-0]

Aw, don't be mean to the rookie. It's our job as experienced smash and SWF veterans to help the next generation of players come in and to guide them to success, for it is our duty!

 

[Master JBone07]

Thank you

Aw, don't be mean to the rookie. It's our job as experienced smash and SWF veterans to help the next generation of players come in and to guide them to success, for it is our duty!

Thanl you for supporting me, Mr. -0. I really appreciate it when people say nice things about me, and you are one of those people!!! Once again, thanks.

 

[Technodeath]

What is this.

Turn them items off
Train to no end with your friend.
?????
Profit.

 

[Kitamerby]

BPC, there is no set timings between drawings on Pictochat. Honestly all you have to do is turn on your Wii, go to the stage, and look at it.

wtf yes there are. YOU turn on your wii, go to the stage, and look at it. O_o

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161397

Each transformation is 13.33 seconds, followed by 13.33 seconds of blankness.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

so, what do you guys think about changing the timer to 9:00 min?

 

[-Vocal-]

wtf yes there are. YOU turn on your wii, go to the stage, and look at it. O_o

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161397

Each transformation is 13.33 seconds, followed by 13.33 seconds of blankness.

Maybe there's something weird with my copy or something....but the time inbetween can be pretty random. Like i said, after he posted, I went on there to check and it very rarely was an even 13 seconds. One time the gap only five seconds. Are there perhaps different version of Brawl?

 

[Kitamerby]

There are no different versions of brawl. There is only one base set. The only changes between regions are names and voices.

 

[sunshade]

Maybe there's something weird with my copy or something....but the time inbetween can be pretty random. Like i said, after he posted, I went on there to check and it very rarely was an even 13 seconds. One time the gap only five seconds. Are there perhaps different version of Brawl?

No.

Lots of people just run on hear say. I thought it was 13 seconds for a very long time. I infrequently play the stage due to it being a weak counterpick and a personally unenjoyable stage.

It was not until T-Block's pictochat thread that it hit be to actually fact check. Thankfully he did it for me/us and it turns out they come roughly every 10-14 seconds and last 14-17ish.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270499

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

so, what do you guys think about changing the timer to 9:00 min?

Bad idea. Let's make tournaments last even LONGER.

No.

Lots of people just run on hear say. I thought it was 13 seconds for a very long time. I infrequently play the stage due to it being a weak counterpick and a personally unenjoyable stage.

It was not until T-Block's pictochat thread that it hit be to actually fact check. Thankfully he did it for me/us and it turns out they come roughly every 10-14 seconds and last 14-17ish.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=270499

Dammit.

So maybe we should discuss how much randomness is OK in stages. People complain about Pictochat's randomness, GG's randomness, Norfair's randomness... How much random is needed for a stage to be bannable sheerly because of randomness?

 

[Jack Kieser]

It's not how much randomness is allowed, but WHAT KIND. For instance, Picto has a lot of random variables to it, BUT it also telegraphs its changes for a few seconds before they ever take effect. Now, if Picto DIDN'T telegraph, but instead bombs, spikes, walls, or whatever could just instantly pop up under you, that'd be different.

Randomness that takes away control is bad. Randomness that can be combated isn't.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

That point I will agree on. Like, take norfair for example. Can you combat the hazards coming at you? Well, let's see...
-Lava wall will zoom out on the side it's coming from about 7 seconds in advance (7 ****ing seconds!), and takes approximately 3 seconds from when it appears to where it stops moving (more than enough time for your lame *** to get well out of the way, and if you're smart, you'll be camping the bottom platform anyways.
-Lava Flood... You have like 5 seconds to either get in the homeless shelter or just block/dodge it. Knowing the timing on it will give you a very advantageous position, as you're able to react to your opponent either being trapped in the bubble or in shieldstun (somewhat, at least).
-Lava from the ground... takes about 3 seconds to come up. Ironically, this is probably one of the more problematic ones...
-Lava Plumes... I counted 2 seconds from appearance to when it hits you. Seeing as the plume isn't ridiculously huge, you should be able to get out of the way (or just block) in 2 seconds if your opponent isn't pressuring you pretty **** hard...

 

[Mr.-0]

I don't like Item Tournaments.

 

[Jack Kieser]

No one has played in an items tournament. You can't claim to not like what you've never experienced.

 

[T-block]

wtf yes there are. YOU turn on your wii, go to the stage, and look at it. O_o

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=161397

Each transformation is 13.33 seconds, followed by 13.33 seconds of blankness.

Haha, I love how you talk as if you've actually tested it. See sunshade's post... the research I did isn't much, but it doesn't take much to disprove something like this. It's kind of disturbing how long false information like this was floating around.

Dammit.

So maybe we should discuss how much randomness is OK in stages. People complain about Pictochat's randomness, GG's randomness, Norfair's randomness... How much random is needed for a stage to be bannable sheerly because of randomness?

Unfortunately, that's a very hard thing to say. You could easily make a case for zero randomness in stages being a good thing, and then ban any stage which had random elements (which is a LOT of them). The Brawl community has already set a precedent though, with Yoshi's Island Brawl being allowed to be a starter. It's honestly one of the worst stages in the game when it comes to randomly affecting the outcome. I think I would put it as worse than Pictochat, and comparable to Green Greens.

 

[Mr.-0]

Thanl you for supporting me, Mr. -0. I really appreciate it when people say nice things about me, and you are one of those people!!! Once again, thanks.

You are welcome!

 

[-Vocal-]

Picto is more than fine. I honestly didn't know until recently that some people have a problem with it. I think the only time that I've truly been hurt by the random ness is a time when I was sent up into the air and in trying to get back to the ground the rolling cart spawned and pwned me. Still, it's a good stage, one of my favorites.

Norfair is fine as well. I'm from EC, so I haven't played this stage much, but my friend Fino was teaching me the Icies mu yesterday and he has legal stages set to random. Norfair came up, and at first I was like "****." However, even without extensive experience on the stage, I was able to avoid the hazards. Banning that stage because of them, at least in my opinion, is just a bit too hasty; it's a great stage and a strong counter pick, and the hazards aren't that bad.

Green Greens isn't tournament friendly, in my opinion. A common theme in Picto, Norfair, Halberd or even Pirate Ship is that although there are random aspects, you can clearly see them coming ahead of time several seconds in advance. When it comes to Green Greens, people say you should just air dodge while going through the area where bombs may spawn, just in case one does; however, how fair is it to say that when crossing two specific areas of the stage, a player must ALWAYS do the same thing or fear being punished by the stage for it? And even further, if a player's always going to air dodge through to protect themselves from the randomness of the stage, there's nothing keeping the other player from punishing that player as soon as he comes out of his dodge. It's simply too restricting, and it's all because the hazards are instantaneously random.

 

[T-block]

Your complaint against GG's randomness is legitimate.

But what about this: Should Lucas be expected to adjust his recovery position so that the Support Ghost doesn't eat his PKT? Should Ness be expected to adjust his recovery position so that Smashville's balloon doesn't eat his PKT? What about when the Support Ghost scoops you up unexpectedly and makes you use a grounded up-b (Link comes to mind)? If you get hit back out because of that and then edgeguarded, you could definitely say the Support Ghost was instrumental in your death. And this ghost comes up with no warning.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Yeah, there isn't anything wrong with Pictochat in the slightest. It's one of the best examples of exactly what a counter-pick should be: unique mechanics, longer stage layout, higher ceiling, etc. All different than a "normal" neutral, but nothing too crazy.

Additionally, it isn't nearly as "random" as people claim it to be. Generally all of the obstacles only "hurt you" when your opponent uses spacing to force you into them or intentionally hits you into them-- that's definitely legit.




I've always been somewhat on the fence regarding Green Greens :\

 

[Nicole]

mr. metalmusicman sir, the champion of the backroom...please hear my yellow name cry.

green greens is butt-****ing gay. norfair is also gay, and does mk really need another **** cp? norfair doesnt do anything for any other chars that matter (sorry link + ganon) that RC and brinstar don't. green greens is gay.

love,
nicole

ps - i think you're hot, heehee

 

[-Vocal-]

Your complaint against GG's randomness is legitimate.

But what about this: Should Lucas be expected to adjust his recovery position so that the Support Ghost doesn't eat his PKT? Should Ness be expected to adjust his recovery position so that Smashville's balloon doesn't eat his PKT? What about when the Support Ghost scoops you up unexpectedly and makes you use a grounded up-b (Link comes to mind)? If you get hit back out because of that and then edgeguarded, you could definitely say the Support Ghost was instrumental in your death. And this ghost comes up with no warning.

Green Greens hurts everyone. That is what makes it a bad stage for tournament play. SV and YI, as far as I have seen from your post, only hurt three characters. This just makes it a terrible stage for them. Additionally, they all have fairly bad recoveries anyhow; I can gimp Ness' with a properly thrown pikmin, and Lucas' with a properly latched one. Link's is just bad. I can agree with your point that sometimes the randomness of these stages can hurt a few specific characters, but it comes nowhere close to the damage a stage like Green Greens does to competitive play.

As a side argument, I don't think having a stage that takes away recovery is a bannable offense. You say these stages occasionally rob characters of their recoveries? Jungle Japes will rob Olimar of his nearly 90% of the time if he falls in the water. This is due to something that has a much higher likelihood of occurring, so if we were to follow your logic of "taking away a character's recovery is a bannable offense" then we'd have to ban Japes long before SV or YI. As it is, I don't think any of them should be banned (even though that Klap Trap has pissed me off a couple times).

edit @Nicole: Actually, I like Norfair. It gives Olimar a lot of places to run to when he's on the ledge as opposed to his usual dismal ones, and all the ledges actually make his tether recovery quite a useful tactic. If the stage was legal, I could see myself CPing people there (Falcos off the top of my head). I definitely wouldn't be taking anyone to Norfair anytime soon, and while I hear RC is a good Olimar stage, I'd be much more comfortable on Norfair.

 

[Chuee]

Additionally, they all have fairly bad recoveries anyhow; I can gimp Ness' with a properly thrown pikmin, and Lucas' with a properly latched one.

lol @ Lucas having a bad recovery.

 

[Eddie G]

mr. metalmusicman sir, the champion of the backroom...please hear my yellow name cry.

green greens is butt-****ing gay. norfair is also gay, and does mk really need another **** cp? norfair doesnt do anything for any other chars that matter (sorry link + ganon) that RC and brinstar don't. green greens is gay.

love,
nicole

ps - i think you're hot, heehee

Silence woman! Green Greens is amazing.

Love,
Eddie

 

[-Vocal-]

lol @ Lucas having a bad recovery.

I said fairly, though I suppose Olimar is one of the few people who can gimp him because of it. I'm thinking too much like an Olimar ^_^ Alright, his is not bad, but my point still sticks that those stages affect a small subset of the cast while Green Greens hurts anyone who lays eyes on that anthropomorphic tree.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

mr. metalmusicman sir, the champion of the backroom...please hear my yellow name cry.

green greens is butt-****ing gay. norfair is also gay, and does mk really need another **** cp? norfair doesnt do anything for any other chars that matter (sorry link + ganon) that RC and brinstar don't. green greens is gay.

love,
nicole

ps - i think you're hot, heehee

lmfao, too good, Nicole. Too good.



Norfair -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/metakirby/planking1.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v671/metakirby/planking2.png

I love those pictures.

The ledges / planking on Norfair aren't really a problem. MK isn't really that great there, it's something of a misconception that he is. Of course, he's not bad-- he is MK afterall.

The reason I don't personally like Norfair is because the Lava spurt trajectories / amount / positioning (the flares) are so random and at times go nuts and fly all over the place, sometimes several at a time.

The Lava wall / rising lava, side lava is all fine and dandy. It's just the spurts (flares) because they fly out of nowhere and are often unavoidable (often they are completely avoidable as well though). That is the only thing that makes me on the fence about Norfair. I could take it or leave it. I'd really like to fully support it, but those flares... **** those flares... I can't say it should always be banned either though, since it's really not all that terrible *most* of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf1oeJj1HwE#t=0m30s



It's like the Canon balls on Pirate Ship... if they weren't there, I would LOVE that stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OdAA17IcJg#t=4m07s



Green Greens is pretty much the same deal. Not because the blocks are there / can explode, but because they can randomly spawn while you are flying out of control and kill you. Also, bomb apples. It's the random element without warning that is so disheartening.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJXxVVq1TFE#t=5m39s



Now a sweet stage like Pictochat, that's all about using the obstacles to your advantage




PS - Nicole, stop missing my Smashfests you noob I haven't seen you in like 2 weeks.

 

[T-block]

Lucas has an above average recovery =P

It's not just about eating recoveries though. When it comes down to it, YI and GG both do the same thing - they influence stock count. If you get hit by a bomb on GG "randomly", you lose a stock if you're at mid-high percents. Okay, you lost a stock when you shouldn't have. If your opponent is not able to recover on YI, and the platform saves him, he doesn't lose a stock when he should have. In regards to the relative stock count, it accomplishes exactly the same thing. Now consider that GG's bombs don't kill at low or even mid percents, while YI's platform can save whether you were knocked too far to recover (high percents) or just got gimped (low percents). The difference is how often these stages influence the stock count, which we unfortunately don't have hard data for.

In any case, I'm not saying YI should be banned. I'm saying since we allow YI and even use it as a starter, these other "random" stages aren't so bad.