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He's a lot like Diddy Kong in that way though. He's heavily affected by what stage the match takes place on. By the same token, I think that also like Diddy Kong, he needs to win the first game to avoid being taken to a stage he can't handle the matchup on.Dedede is just amazing at what he does.
Stopping other characters from being viable.
An MK banned world would most likely have dedede as the biggest threat in the metagame again (obviously not no.1, but yeah).
I think Dedede could be explored more as a character in terms of the moves he uses, but yeah... very limited approaching.
Nearly every single one of his disadvantaged match ups bar MK is winnable on the right stages though, and this includes many of those in the starter list too.
Okay, I acknowledge the jump thing, but side-b loses to Waddle throw, so that one doesn't actually work.He's too good. Amazing spacing moves, and his entire game revolves around camping, which is something he does really well.DDD's entire game should not revolve around camping. It revolves around staying still. There is a difference.
A decent Dedede will never land with his aerial without acknowledging that he's taking a big risk in that.Fine, hitting your shield with a rising aerial is still punishable though.
It's fairly difficult to get him off the stage, because that implies that you've gotten in range of him and successfully dealt with him.So, dodge his slow spacing moves, or his grab, which is his real tool anyway.
D-Air covers a great deal of juggle stuff, and the fact that his fastfall is so ridiculous means that any juggle prospect is just a guessing game that Dedede is likely to win.Don't try to juggle him from below. His dair's hitbox SUCKS when the opponent is not directly below him. DDD's aerial mobility isn't the best either.
Not everyone has Zero Suit Samus's jump to juggle and Forward-B to outcamp him. :/
He'll just B-Air you. It'll be fine.Dair sucks.
SDI it and punish him with an Uair.
Thats what I do anyway.
With his piss poor aerial speed its easy.
This, seriously. I forgot to list his spotdodge as an approach because it really is.Come to FL where we have co18, hbox, and seibrik who are amazing with DDD and you will see how ******** he can be.
The worse thing about DDD, his spotdodge. Even if you predict it and charge a smash, sometimes it still wont hit because you have only 2 frames to hit him with. Any whiffed attack or not perfect spacing leads to a grab.
While most of what you said is true (ie, the details), I disagree with the concept that DDD isn't that good because you can pick characters that don't get chain grabbed. The fact of the matter is that lots of characters do get chain grabbed. A character's worth is his average of how he does versus the entire cast, you can't just ignore a huge sub set of matches when deciding if he's good or not. That's not what the tier list is about. Basically, I agree with Marc's assessment of DDD.DDD is a bad character. I'm sorry to anybody who thinks otherwise. If you thin he's good, you probably get CGed. Pick somebody who doesn't.
Waddles can be punished on reactoin if you're looking for it.
He has 0 approach. His spacing move is also very slow.
If he hits your shield with an aerial (Except nair) and lands, you can grab him. Every time. Even ZSS can grab DDD out of bair/fair/uair/dair.
He gets edgeguarded as easily, it not worse than Snake does. Free damage when he up-bs going up, and then you hit him out again when it's going down.
When he up-bs, he has to go above the ledge a little, no matter what. This basically shouts at you, "PLEASE GRAB THE LEDGE! I'M FAT AND CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT IT!"
Honestly if he didn't live to stupidly high percets, save gimps and spikes, I would think he should be low tier. Since he lives forever, he should be mid, mid-high, just for the fact that his CG wrecks so much of the cast.
I hope this isn't MU bias, because I just find him bad.
tl;dr
He's a bad character who is fat and CGs a slew of characters.
Move down out of high tier, pl0x.
He's secretly really good, despite being so simple. His properties are pretty ridiculous.
Rob dsmash has Z axis property.Which axis are you considering the Z axis - the axis perpendicular to the plane of the TV screen? No such attack exists O_O
No, we looked into up and there is a Z axis property on rob's dsmash, even though D3 is in another plane, Rob can hit him.For the duration of DDD's side step, Rob's downsmash doesn't hit him. It only hits DDD because the downsmash lasts enough frames to hit DDD once he's returned to the plane of the TV screen.
I lol @ this statement. Cant wait to see your top placings with Dedede.And I -hate- that he's so good, because few things make me angrier than losing to someone who didn't have to think much about his actions at all...
But with that spotdodge, that fastfall, that grab, and that obscene range, weight, and power, there's a lot more "this is just a guessing game" than I ever care to see.
I don't mean that Dedede takes a complete lack of thought to win. My Dedede is bad, mostly because I can't run -> shield -> grab, and because I'm not good at close-range fighting with him (read: a lot of important things, hah). It's just that I'm convinced landing certain things in many matchups involves nothing more than a guessing game, and that frustrates me. Let's play the "How Many Jumps?" game. Let's see when my invincibility is going to be on (or, harder still, off!).I lol @ this statement. Cant wait to see your top placings with Dedede.
I made a thread about it a long time ago, and no one cared.
I wanted to compile a list, but no one helped.
EDIT:
I don't mean that Dedede takes any lack of skill to win. My Dedede is bad. It's just that I'm convinced landing certain things in many matchups involves nothing more than a guessing game, and that frustrates me. Let's play the "How Many Jumps?" game.
I feel like many of the situations he creates have less of an emphasis on psychology and more about getting lucky when the odds are stacked in your favor.
I don't feel like I'm getting my point across well. :/
Mostly.Basically, character skill is not all that much required for dedede, mostly great yomi since he is very basic but very good at the same time. On the other hand, because he is so simple, you can't improve much upon it, so you need to compensate with good yomi/mindgames.
Is that what you mean?