Fox is mad good.
Till he fights Pikachu.
>_<
Till he fights Pikachu.
>_<
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BBR Weekly Character Discussion #19: Fox
- Thread starter Marc
- Start date
I dunno, I've never felt the hitbox was big at all.
Then again I've never seen a hitbox diagram of it since I'm too uninterested to check up on the specifics.
I'm a fine example.
NickRiddle
#negativeNick
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu95/sasook/36ddc9890279edea.jpg
here you go.
Also, last post about ZSS. This is the Fox thread, and I don't wanna get yelled at.
Crow!
Smash Lord
Since we are doing all of D Tier this week, I present my usual data for D-Tier characters.
As usual, the following graph takes tournament results as compiled by Ankoku (current as of the end of May, 2010), groups the results by character and player name, and shows on the Y-Axis how well the N-th best player (arranged on the X-Axis) of characters A, B, C... has been doing in tournaments over the course of 6 months.
Fox seems to be fine right where he is. His and Wolf's performances seem basically identical, and generally on par with the rest of D-Tier. It is curious that this does not correspond to the overall sentiment of the discussion here - a lot of people seem to think Fox can do a lot better than he so far has been.
Question then is, why hasn't it happened yet?
Me, I'll wait until I start seeing some more consistent results before I start tooting Fox's horn.
As usual, the following graph takes tournament results as compiled by Ankoku (current as of the end of May, 2010), groups the results by character and player name, and shows on the Y-Axis how well the N-th best player (arranged on the X-Axis) of characters A, B, C... has been doing in tournaments over the course of 6 months.
Fox seems to be fine right where he is. His and Wolf's performances seem basically identical, and generally on par with the rest of D-Tier. It is curious that this does not correspond to the overall sentiment of the discussion here - a lot of people seem to think Fox can do a lot better than he so far has been.
Question then is, why hasn't it happened yet?
Me, I'll wait until I start seeing some more consistent results before I start tooting Fox's horn.
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
I think it doesn't happen because people see a matchup like Pika vs Fox and don't even bother trying. For some reason, a lot of people who play this game are "character purists". There is rarely a benefit to being a character purist in a situation where a player has the option to play as any character he desires... yet for some reason, many people who play Smash refuse to do so.
I think that odd dynamic of our community is the main reason why not enough people play Fox.
Oh, and he also has Marth syndrome. Since he was super good in Melee and isn't S-S-S GOD TIER in Brawl too, people assume he sucks.
I think that odd dynamic of our community is the main reason why not enough people play Fox.
Oh, and he also has Marth syndrome. Since he was super good in Melee and isn't S-S-S GOD TIER in Brawl too, people assume he sucks.
Falco pika is 65-35 or maybe 70-30 pikachu, Falco ICs is 60-40 ICs, and Marth Falco is 55-45 Marth at Worst.
Imo Falco's hardest match ups are Pika and ICs, everyone else is 55-45 at worst for Falco. Pikachu is the only character I would say counters Falco.
Falco Fox is probably even. Neither character can camp each other, plus they **** each other recoveries pretty hard. Falco can chain grab spike Fox, but he can survive it pretty easily. The damage Falco racks up from the chaingrab doesn't matter much either since Fox will kill earlier than Falco will.
CO18
Smash Hero
How does fox **** falcos recovery. I know falco can just jab fox's side b though.
The Real Inferno
Smash Hero
I'm not sure, but I think Fox can use his own Down B to knock Falco out of Phantasm and his Up B, which is what he does to Wolf.
He can dair, Shine, utilt, nair, and jab Falco's side b. If Falco recovers with up b near fox, he can get shined or daired out of it.
Holy mother****ing Christ.
Oh well Fox still has the tools to avoid and punish that. Good thing he's got the speed.
yeah I think Fox beats ZSS.
Also Fox loses to Squirtle, out of all characters.
Squirtle's ftilt and jab out right destroy anything fox has on the ground.
His small size and huge grab range (3rd best non-tether in the game after dedede and charizard) and follow ups from grabs just wreck him.
HOWEVER, Fox's fair out does a lot of squirtle's aerials well spaced... nair can win sometimes too... But most of the time it's either a clash or squirt comes out on top.
Fox can grab release squirtle to usmash if he tries to mash out.
I'd say the match up is similar to that of Sheik maybe slightly better... It's just because squirtle is "rare" and doesn't have lol non-stoppable **** lock that people don't "see it".
Reason being is that Fox can somewhat avoid sheiks ftilt through good spacing and movement around the stage.
Squirtle's mobility on both the ground and air wrecks Fox's lack of "strong range" and disjoint. Fox can't really ... run to avoid squirt much at all. However on a good stage (Smashville with good platform cancelling + FD) he can outrun the 1.5-2 minutes before squirt is fatigued with some success, then the match up tips more towards Fox as squirtle loses a lot of killing power. However this opens up fox to some reasonably effective decayed combos + gimp set ups... but unfatigued squirtle does a lot better, no doubt.
Squirtle's down air outprioritises both fox's side b and up b. The move has cinematic hit lag (yep) so he can't sdi out of it... it also hits them back the way they came.
;\
Squirtle's move set design seems to outright counter Fox from my point of view. I'm not the biggest expert on Fox though but I generally try to base my opinions from contemplating options.
and I just cry at Fox's options in trying to beat a well spaced squirtle ftilt. Power shielding it gives fox nothing.
Also Fox loses to Squirtle, out of all characters.
Squirtle's ftilt and jab out right destroy anything fox has on the ground.
His small size and huge grab range (3rd best non-tether in the game after dedede and charizard) and follow ups from grabs just wreck him.
HOWEVER, Fox's fair out does a lot of squirtle's aerials well spaced... nair can win sometimes too... But most of the time it's either a clash or squirt comes out on top.
Fox can grab release squirtle to usmash if he tries to mash out.
I'd say the match up is similar to that of Sheik maybe slightly better... It's just because squirtle is "rare" and doesn't have lol non-stoppable **** lock that people don't "see it".
Reason being is that Fox can somewhat avoid sheiks ftilt through good spacing and movement around the stage.
Squirtle's mobility on both the ground and air wrecks Fox's lack of "strong range" and disjoint. Fox can't really ... run to avoid squirt much at all. However on a good stage (Smashville with good platform cancelling + FD) he can outrun the 1.5-2 minutes before squirt is fatigued with some success, then the match up tips more towards Fox as squirtle loses a lot of killing power. However this opens up fox to some reasonably effective decayed combos + gimp set ups... but unfatigued squirtle does a lot better, no doubt.
Squirtle's down air outprioritises both fox's side b and up b. The move has cinematic hit lag (yep) so he can't sdi out of it... it also hits them back the way they came.
;\
Squirtle's move set design seems to outright counter Fox from my point of view. I'm not the biggest expert on Fox though but I generally try to base my opinions from contemplating options.
and I just cry at Fox's options in trying to beat a well spaced squirtle ftilt. Power shielding it gives fox nothing.
What changed your mind on this?
MetalMusicMan
Sleepwalk our lives away.
Oh wow, yeah I didn't notice that Larry finally submitted to IC's being 6:4 against Falco, haha 
TKD
Smash Lord
Walking acceleration, walking speed, dashing speed, falling speed, jump rising speed, short-hop height, amazing projectile, fine recovery, quick moves, good power, aerial momentum stopping...he doesn't even suffer some things I dislike about Falco (sometimes he can recover to the other ledge instead of giving away a free gimp). Three to four bad match-ups though (some seem to think Snake is an even match-up, which I haven't found possible).
I think Fox, Falco, Meta Knight and Wario all have even match-ups against each other. You haven't pictured these characters at their fullest <- not anymore. I think wario>falco
@Shaya: Squirtle is very small and gets tired over time. Fox can punish its whiffs well. It's also lighter than Fox is.
I think Fox, Falco, Meta Knight and Wario all have even match-ups against each other. You haven't pictured these characters at their fullest
<- not anymore. I think wario>falco@Shaya: Squirtle is very small and gets tired over time. Fox can punish its whiffs well. It's also lighter than Fox is.
I'm aware he gets tired over time and weighs less.
Still... I don't think Fox punishes his whiffs well at all.. Like besides the extremely obvious ones, his landing lag from aerials is minimal, and he has great aerial acceleration in either direction (3rd best in the game).
Fox doesn't have extremely big arcs in his hitboxes other than utilt/usmash/fair. It's fox's ground game over all that gets wrecked by squirtle's imo...
Still... I don't think Fox punishes his whiffs well at all.. Like besides the extremely obvious ones, his landing lag from aerials is minimal, and he has great aerial acceleration in either direction (3rd best in the game).
Fox doesn't have extremely big arcs in his hitboxes other than utilt/usmash/fair. It's fox's ground game over all that gets wrecked by squirtle's imo...
Marcbri
Smash Lord
Fox beating MK... I can see it, but not 6-4, just a small advantage like 55-45 in most of the starters
Overall he does pretty well vs the common characters of the top tier like falco, diddy, snake, wario, DDD, etc. His main problem there being Ice climbers, where his lack of range makes fox plays perfectly if he wants to win the match, almost nothing is safe on block and many of his approaches can be pivot grabbed as well, he has to relay on totally outplaying his opponent or Fox will get destroyed even if he does few mistakes.
Pikachu kinda works the same way as Ice Climbers, but you can't split him in two, on the other side he can't kill you off a grab like ICs do thus Fox killing potential and combo ability can make up for pika's chaingrabs.
Both are the worst match-ups for fox, work similary but I feel they are winnable.
After these Sheik would be next but he's not that hard at all, he has ftilt lock and gimping ability ( that should be avoidable with shine stall, this isn't melee, fox shouldn't get gimped often.
About squirtle, I once MMed the best PT in europe with my fox, he always changed to squirtle all of his stocks and he comboed me to 100% easily but I don't see it that bad, he has no ways of killing besides his grab, who gets garbage when he's tired,I would say it's kinda an even match-up.
also, on a funny note I did this once http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk77oE2Q17g xD
Overall I think Fox is a solid character, the best one of the ones we're discussing atm followed by peach, he should easily rise a few spots.
Overall he does pretty well vs the common characters of the top tier like falco, diddy, snake, wario, DDD, etc. His main problem there being Ice climbers, where his lack of range makes fox plays perfectly if he wants to win the match, almost nothing is safe on block and many of his approaches can be pivot grabbed as well, he has to relay on totally outplaying his opponent or Fox will get destroyed even if he does few mistakes.
Pikachu kinda works the same way as Ice Climbers, but you can't split him in two, on the other side he can't kill you off a grab like ICs do thus Fox killing potential and combo ability can make up for pika's chaingrabs.
Both are the worst match-ups for fox, work similary but I feel they are winnable.
After these Sheik would be next but he's not that hard at all, he has ftilt lock and gimping ability ( that should be avoidable with shine stall, this isn't melee, fox shouldn't get gimped often.
About squirtle, I once MMed the best PT in europe with my fox, he always changed to squirtle all of his stocks and he comboed me to 100% easily but I don't see it that bad, he has no ways of killing besides his grab, who gets garbage when he's tired,I would say it's kinda an even match-up.
also, on a funny note I did this once http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk77oE2Q17g xD
Overall I think Fox is a solid character, the best one of the ones we're discussing atm followed by peach, he should easily rise a few spots.
Oh dear... anyway.
People may not really realise that squirtle is wario on steroids when taking into account ground speed movement.
If I'm fox, against a competent squirtle... I'll get combo'd to 90%, sent off stage... most likely won't get gimped... but then squirtle just runs... And he does it... insanely well.
Over all though squirtle's utilt isn't "LOL bad"... not too hard to SDI out to avoid it. Even though once you sdi out you start the whole multiple uairs to regrab to utilt thing. Mad annoying.
People may not really realise that squirtle is wario on steroids when taking into account ground speed movement.
If I'm fox, against a competent squirtle... I'll get combo'd to 90%, sent off stage... most likely won't get gimped... but then squirtle just runs... And he does it... insanely well.
Over all though squirtle's utilt isn't "LOL bad"... not too hard to SDI out to avoid it. Even though once you sdi out you start the whole multiple uairs to regrab to utilt thing. Mad annoying.
Fox is not only underated but he is also underused.the main reason for this is because of the massive changes from melee and the difficult learning curve.out of all the characters in the game i find fox to be the most challengeing. If players spent more time on fox it would surly rise in the tier list.
one area which is also underatted about fox is his lazer game and his defensive game play. because lazers are so fast and flexible in the way they are used, fox doesnt really have to commit to unsafe options.because of this his bad match ups are still very winable. players can take advantage of his speed and the rule set to time their opponents out and basically never really get hit. not only do lazers rack up ridiculous amouts of damage but they constantly undecay moves, make opponents approach and create oppertunitys for punnishment.
many players dont actualy relise that fox has an amazing punnishment game aswell. if fox goes aggressive, he can rack up lots of damage and take stocks quite earley/quickly.his mobillity means that he can punnish moves which would normally seem safe, mix up his attacks by using platforms to get around and pressure opponents shields. Although fox has very few approach options he never really has to. it is very easy for a good fox player to create a lead and once that has happened they dont really have to over extened at all.
If a Fox player is playing to win by any means necassary it will be difficult for even his worst match ups to take a victory.there are very few good fox players in the world (ultimately about 5? maybe a little more) and if Fox's meta game keeps going in the direction it is, we may see a big growth in players and tourney placings with fox.
sorry for any spelling errors.
one area which is also underatted about fox is his lazer game and his defensive game play. because lazers are so fast and flexible in the way they are used, fox doesnt really have to commit to unsafe options.because of this his bad match ups are still very winable. players can take advantage of his speed and the rule set to time their opponents out and basically never really get hit. not only do lazers rack up ridiculous amouts of damage but they constantly undecay moves, make opponents approach and create oppertunitys for punnishment.
many players dont actualy relise that fox has an amazing punnishment game aswell. if fox goes aggressive, he can rack up lots of damage and take stocks quite earley/quickly.his mobillity means that he can punnish moves which would normally seem safe, mix up his attacks by using platforms to get around and pressure opponents shields. Although fox has very few approach options he never really has to. it is very easy for a good fox player to create a lead and once that has happened they dont really have to over extened at all.
If a Fox player is playing to win by any means necassary it will be difficult for even his worst match ups to take a victory.there are very few good fox players in the world (ultimately about 5? maybe a little more) and if Fox's meta game keeps going in the direction it is, we may see a big growth in players and tourney placings with fox.
sorry for any spelling errors.
So... nobody mentioned Fox's JJC. I don't really know much about it at all, but it seems pretty awesome on paper (amazing combos and whatnot), can anyone explain that to me? Is it really not worth mentioning?
People don't really know how to fight Fox at all imo... like, really, it's strange. I think it's because of how fast Fox can just fly about the stage and follow up his attacks. Anyways SDI out of forward air and dash away when he FHs, these are two things I don't see people doing nearly enough. The most effective way to combat Fox IMO is to stay right outside of his safe melee zone (as someone else mentioned earlier, out of ftilt range) and apply pressure, if your character is able to do that. Fox lacks disjoints and has mediocre horizontal air speed/control, but his amazing ground speed and vertical air speed often compensate for this.
Putting him in high tier is... a bit of a stretch for now. Everyone is upset about theory on Pit pushing him up the tier list before, remember? >_> I don't think Fox's current tournament results justify that massive of a jump, but he is certainly a great character that people don't know nearly enough about.
People don't really know how to fight Fox at all imo... like, really, it's strange. I think it's because of how fast Fox can just fly about the stage and follow up his attacks. Anyways SDI out of forward air and dash away when he FHs, these are two things I don't see people doing nearly enough. The most effective way to combat Fox IMO is to stay right outside of his safe melee zone (as someone else mentioned earlier, out of ftilt range) and apply pressure, if your character is able to do that. Fox lacks disjoints and has mediocre horizontal air speed/control, but his amazing ground speed and vertical air speed often compensate for this.
Putting him in high tier is... a bit of a stretch for now. Everyone is upset about theory on Pit pushing him up the tier list before, remember? >_> I don't think Fox's current tournament results justify that massive of a jump, but he is certainly a great character that people don't know nearly enough about.
I've been using Fox more in tournaments lately, and I feel that with a bit more experience I will be able to reliably beat good MKs. The matchup feels drastically better to me than it did with Kirby, probably very close to even.
With Fox, I'm afraid of Pikachu, but I can use Kirby for that. I'm afraid of ICs as well, but Kirby gets countered by them too.
Nobody's mentioned Olimar yet... I don't have much experience against them using Fox, but I used Kirby last tournament against one because I was afraid of using Fox. Does anyone feel like Olimar is a good/decent matchup for Fox?
Anyway yes, Fox is a very underrated character, but he does require a lot of practice and concentration, plus the facts that he has a couple hard counters and isn't godlike like in Melee, I can understand why he doesn't have a huge playerbase.
With Fox, I'm afraid of Pikachu, but I can use Kirby for that. I'm afraid of ICs as well, but Kirby gets countered by them too.
Nobody's mentioned Olimar yet... I don't have much experience against them using Fox, but I used Kirby last tournament against one because I was afraid of using Fox. Does anyone feel like Olimar is a good/decent matchup for Fox?
Anyway yes, Fox is a very underrated character, but he does require a lot of practice and concentration, plus the facts that he has a couple hard counters and isn't godlike like in Melee, I can understand why he doesn't have a huge playerbase.
Exceladon City
Smash Hero
I told you Saturday Asdioh, Fox v Oli is like 55:45 Olimar's favor. It's not bad at all. It's REALLY hard for me to explain though. Also, my Fox bloooooooooows now, so I wouldn't be able to show you.
Same with Falco, but he's A tier.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Fox isn't by any means a bad character, but his counters destroy him. He is also lacking in killing options, and doesn't have the tournament results to warrant a move up the tier list.
Yes, he has potential. Same goes to most of mid tier if only they had more rep.
Yes, he has potential. Same goes to most of mid tier if only they had more rep.
KillerJawz
...
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- Mar 28, 2008
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When you have a move as powerful as his usmash, coming out on frame 8?, having plenty of setups and equipped with a running speed like this, you really don't need any more kill options then his Usmash.
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
Falco has more positive match-ups across the board though; he does considerably well against B-everything else tier minus those two characters and does well against A-tier and MK.
I think Fox is a realistically viable character (well, minus ICs and Pika), but I don't think it's like A-B tier viable in which they beat some good characters and lose to others. I feel like Fox doesn't have the advantage against any of the SAB tier characters aside from King Dedede (and even then he's not often played anymore), but his disadvantages are easily winnable. Having like 45-55s across all of SAB tier and some 4-6s isn't bad nor do I think it's unviable, it's just not good and takes a lot more effort to be successful.
I think Fox is a realistically viable character (well, minus ICs and Pika), but I don't think it's like A-B tier viable in which they beat some good characters and lose to others. I feel like Fox doesn't have the advantage against any of the SAB tier characters aside from King Dedede (and even then he's not often played anymore), but his disadvantages are easily winnable. Having like 45-55s across all of SAB tier and some 4-6s isn't bad nor do I think it's unviable, it's just not good and takes a lot more effort to be successful.
4Biddin
Smash Journeyman
Fox is a C tier character if the average brawler is using him. It takes alot of playing hours to truly grasp and understand how fox should be played. You just can't go watch tkd and think you can play the way he does. He is fine where he is at on the teir list. If he moves up that just means your gonna see more scrubs trying to pick him up which will make me . Overall great character just takes a lil more work before you really start rolling in the W's using him.
. Overall great character just takes a lil more work before you really start rolling in the W's using him.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
@4Biddin:
I don't really think that scrubs would pick Fox out of all characters, if they already hardly pick up B Tier characters.
Anyway, another thing I want to point out is that Fox is amazing in doubles. There's a second player who can help him out of possible CGs and defend him a bit (as we know Fox is a glass cannon), while Fox racks up damage, and he even is able to kill alone.
I don't really think that scrubs would pick Fox out of all characters, if they already hardly pick up B Tier characters.
Anyway, another thing I want to point out is that Fox is amazing in doubles. There's a second player who can help him out of possible CGs and defend him a bit (as we know Fox is a glass cannon), while Fox racks up damage, and he even is able to kill alone.
![[FBC] ESAM](/data/avatars/l/92/92614.jpg?1365783210){kind=avatar}
[FBC] ESAM
Smash Legend
But if he gets caught in a team combo, he will take a big chunk of his death % in a matter of seconds, even if it isn't by a CG or lock.
KillerJawz
...
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About 20 or so character boards have said their character is "amazing" in doubles. Until I start seeing some solid placements, that statement is just invalid. Theorycraft will only take you so far, .joel. For example, I could say Samus is amazing in doubles because she doesn't need to kill, or that Link is because he can tank stocks. Again, placements will really be the proof in this.
Supermodel From Paris
Smash Hero
Fox has the same counters as Falco plus Sheik. Why is he D tier?
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
if people start actually SDI'ing fox's moves the character should never go up. If everyone had Mr Doom SDI I guarantee fox would never be above mediocre. I mean if he couldn't drill, uptilt(lock), or fair many of his moves would lose purpose.
I don't think fox should be significantly higher than he is now. top of C tier at most. Nothing other than opinion and theory craft and TKD warrant a rise.
That being said I wager there's like 10 characters out there who have a large amount of untapped potential waiting to be released. Its possible fox is one of them but for now I don't see why he should move up
I don't think fox should be significantly higher than he is now. top of C tier at most. Nothing other than opinion and theory craft and TKD warrant a rise.
That being said I wager there's like 10 characters out there who have a large amount of untapped potential waiting to be released. Its possible fox is one of them but for now I don't see why he should move up
M@v
Subarashii!
In terms of performance, I think of fox as a (slightly) worse Falco. I mained fox for a looong time, and most people still know me from that time period. I still use him, and I will make a full post tomorrow(gotta get up early; job training), but a couple highlights:
Fox beats zss, for the reasons McGriddle stated.
I personally think fox loses to mk 4:6 , mainly because he can't control the tempo mk approaches him due to his non- stunning lasers, so mk can still control the tempo of the match. Otherwise his dair combos can work very well, and he doesnt have trouble recovering. Btw upsmash is only guaranteed from an air release, which the mk has to mash buttons to do.
In speaking of recovery, fox has the best recovery of any spacy hands down. Vertical recovery is a viable option for him because
a. his up b goes really far
b. rising fair. Using fair with jump greatly increases the height of his jumps
c. Shine stalling. Throws off edgeguard timing and buys fox time.
Shine has invulnerability frames, so its possible to abuse it effectively.
Lastly, fox has no trouble killing. SO many setups for upsmash, plus he has dsmash, bair, upair, and fair off the top(last hit of fair send the opponent straight up).
More tomorrow night, but I feel fox belongs in B tier, at the Toon link/pit/zero suit level. We just need more foxes to step it up besides TKD, which isnt looking good considering Rookie dropped him, who was probably the #2 fox, and TO joe and I stopped maining him, and although we were not amazing fox players, we were able to put up decent results.
I dropped him as a main for 2 reasons
a. I was tired of getting ***** by chaingrabs and locks all over the place(many characters have small cgs and locks on him as well)
b. I was sick of fox's lack of a safe approach. Although brawl is defensive, this REALLY hinders him.
I might start maining fox in teams again. Plus he's still my favorite character to play as; he's so much fun to use.
Fox beats zss, for the reasons McGriddle stated.
I personally think fox loses to mk 4:6 , mainly because he can't control the tempo mk approaches him due to his non- stunning lasers, so mk can still control the tempo of the match. Otherwise his dair combos can work very well, and he doesnt have trouble recovering. Btw upsmash is only guaranteed from an air release, which the mk has to mash buttons to do.
In speaking of recovery, fox has the best recovery of any spacy hands down. Vertical recovery is a viable option for him because
a. his up b goes really far
b. rising fair. Using fair with jump greatly increases the height of his jumps
c. Shine stalling. Throws off edgeguard timing and buys fox time.
Shine has invulnerability frames, so its possible to abuse it effectively.
Lastly, fox has no trouble killing. SO many setups for upsmash, plus he has dsmash, bair, upair, and fair off the top(last hit of fair send the opponent straight up).
More tomorrow night, but I feel fox belongs in B tier, at the Toon link/pit/zero suit level. We just need more foxes to step it up besides TKD, which isnt looking good considering Rookie dropped him, who was probably the #2 fox, and TO joe and I stopped maining him, and although we were not amazing fox players, we were able to put up decent results.
I dropped him as a main for 2 reasons
a. I was tired of getting ***** by chaingrabs and locks all over the place(many characters have small cgs and locks on him as well)
b. I was sick of fox's lack of a safe approach. Although brawl is defensive, this REALLY hinders him.
I might start maining fox in teams again. Plus he's still my favorite character to play as; he's so much fun to use.
AvaricePanda
Smash Lord
He has the same (probably slightly worse) counters and doesn't do as overall well against most match-ups that Falco does. He doesn't destroy as many E-G tier characters like Falco does, and he doesn't do as well vs. most A-B tier characters as Falco does.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
shaya, regrab utilt on fox with squirtle?
is it gr -> first two hits of jab -> utilt on trip? thats all I can see.
is it gr -> first two hits of jab -> utilt on trip? thats all I can see.
Agree with KJ. Comparing to Kirby like I usually do because that is where my experience lies... anyway, people say Kirby's Fsmash is so great, and it really is a good kill move if you can land it, but it is so easy to see coming, with so few setups, that it's a lot harder to land than people think. Plus, it's extremely punishable if you whiff.
Fox's Upsmash, however, not only comes out fast and insanely strong, but the best thing about it imo is Fox's running speed. It makes it much harder to see coming, and much easier for Fox to punish the slightest mistakes. I don't usually see other people do it, but I actually dashdance with Fox sometimes before Upsmashing. It obviously doesn't guarantee a hit, but it is far more effective than people give it credit for.
I still think Fox is at least 3-4 spots below where his potential lies.
M@v
Subarashii!
too bad no one minus tkd is playing him at that potential.
The Truth!
Smash Ace
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I like that this is coming from the same who used to argue Fox was really bad and had 5 million bad matchups.He's actually like 2 tiers below that tbh.