Numa Dude
Smash Lord
His identity is revealed in GoD.
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Black Knight for Brawl (SPOILERS AHEAD)
- Thread starter KidSmash
- Start date
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Good to see some people are interested in seeing the Black Knight in Brawl. For some reason, there has been a lot of BK hate on my character predictions thread.
Tijaro
Smash Cadet
***
I can't imagine why; The Black Knight would be an excellent addition to Brawl.
Melee only had four sword-wielders (Link and Young Link were not exactly "pure" swordsmen in that they used bombs, arrows and other projectiles for help), and a good, powerful (and slow - like Ganon) swordsman would balance things out a little bit. The Black Knight fits the bill pretty well. And let's face it, he's awesome!
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
which isnt 'to date' as that isnt out yet
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
GoD has been out.
0rion
Smash Journeyman
Ganon + Black Knight + Brawl= Two kick a$$ villain$ in Brawl!
The_Corax_King
Smash Lord
meh... save the spot for a better character...
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
not outside japan.
Tijaro
Smash Cadet
Black Knight in BRAWL - yes!
There is so much potential for the Black Knight in BRAWL.
For one, there definitely needs to be some more powerhouses to balance out the game. In Melee, there was Bowser, DK, and Ganon as the main heavy-hitters. Not too many...
But with the popularity of the Black Knight, he would make another excellent addition to the SSB powerhouse family.
Also, I know it is hard for people to imagine the Black Knight actually jumping (because of his mass and the lack of serious mobility in the Fire Emblem game), but I can certainly envision his third-jump move being his "Teleportation" ability (as seen in Fire Emblem; Path of Radiance). Due to his natural lack of mobility, his teleport should cover great distances like that of Zelda's recovery move from Melee.
There is so much potential for the Black Knight in BRAWL.
For one, there definitely needs to be some more powerhouses to balance out the game. In Melee, there was Bowser, DK, and Ganon as the main heavy-hitters. Not too many...
But with the popularity of the Black Knight, he would make another excellent addition to the SSB powerhouse family.
Also, I know it is hard for people to imagine the Black Knight actually jumping (because of his mass and the lack of serious mobility in the Fire Emblem game), but I can certainly envision his third-jump move being his "Teleportation" ability (as seen in Fire Emblem; Path of Radiance). Due to his natural lack of mobility, his teleport should cover great distances like that of Zelda's recovery move from Melee.
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
So what the game is still out.
Stryks
Smash Hero
From the fire emblem series, there are only a handful of characters that could be added, I mean marth may stay, roy is gone, Ike is a shoe in, and who deserves a spot in brawl? Black knight, im no expert on FE, but I know hes one of the few bad guys to appear more than once in a FE game, or so I heard, and not only that hes Ikes main rival, a character that is probably already in brawl, and als in GoD hes now playable... seriously hes very awesome and deserves the shot...
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
I couldn't agree more. This character seems like he was MADE for Smash Bros.
However, I still think his only chance is if he is included as a heavier, stronger Ike clone with a teloportation triple jump. Thoughts?
Stryks
Smash Hero
Nah, I mean every swordsmen fights diferently from another, Ike uses a normal sword (dont know their names) and fights in a certain style in FEm now Black knight is a totally diferent story, he uses a 2 handed sword, yet he can wield it with just one, that alone proves his strenght, he moves the sword slowly with one hand, but obviously moves it faster with 2...
Its like SC, has anyone seen Nightmare? black knight would have similair moves, since nightmare can too use the 2 handed sword with just one, yet though Ike will have marth like moves, without becoming a total clone...
Its like SC, has anyone seen Nightmare? black knight would have similair moves, since nightmare can too use the 2 handed sword with just one, yet though Ike will have marth like moves, without becoming a total clone...
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
But in PoR, the two behave almost identically in battle, down to their ranged attack (although BK attacks on a much larger scale).
I don't see how BK could be included as anything but an Ike clone.
Stryks
Smash Hero
Well If I have learned anything from defending dark samus, wolf, megaman and others from constants flaming of "he will just be a ___ clone!", is that any character can be unique...
The_Corax_King
Smash Lord
He just doesnt seem fit for brawl... yeah a heavy, powerful character would be cool... but honestly... can you imagine the black knight jumping...??
He was just as obscure as any other FE villian... meaning that he only appears in small parts of the game wihtout much dialogue overall...
Im not saying he wouldnt be a really nice addition, but i would really rather see Ike, Sothe, or Lyn in his place...
He was just as obscure as any other FE villian... meaning that he only appears in small parts of the game wihtout much dialogue overall...
Im not saying he wouldnt be a really nice addition, but i would really rather see Ike, Sothe, or Lyn in his place...
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
There's nothing wrong with clones. Some of the most popular charcaters in Melee were clones. Clones allow more characters to be included in the game than would otherwise be included. Being easily clone-able means that a charcater can be included in a fraction of the development time, meaning that he is actually MORE likely to be included, not less.
Personally, I can imagine BK jumping like Bowser in Melee, but that's just me (aside from his triple jump which would be his teloportation ability). Besides, Sakurai has never been lacking in the imagination department. He could surely make BK play in a believable fashion.
Spolier:
Black Knight is also in Goddess of Dawn. As a major villian in two interantionally released Fire Emblem games he is the most important villian in the entire series.
I'm not talking about including BK over more unique FE charcaters. I'm talking about including him as an Ike clone in the event that Sakurai is short on time. I think that's pretty likely.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
i could see black knight as completely original, but i could also see him as a royified ike taken to a bit more of an extreme. their styles of swordfighting are similar yes, but thats because they learned it both from the same man. kaching-duh
Tijaro
Smash Cadet
Ike / Black Knight
Ike and The Black Knight are indeed similar for the most part, however there are differences to be noted upon.
First of which, Ike in Fire Emblem is much more mobile, seen using a skill called "Aether" in which he throws his sword high in the air, leaps up and grabs it, then brings in down hard on his opponent and then slashes once more in the process of a back-flip. Very nimble indeed.
The Black Knight, however, relies more on pure brute force and strength in combat; slowly approaching his opponent and then swinging the sword with incredible might (and decent speed in his attack).
The Black Knight should be slow-moving like Ganondorf and Bowser from Melee, yet quick and absurdly powerful in his attack motions.
The only problem I see with the Black Knight is his jumping (not including Teleport-idea for his thrid-jump). Jump distance would be pathetic like with Bowser.
Also, in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Ike ends up wielding a sword called Ragnell which is the counterpart (clone) of Black Knight's sword, called the Alondite.
Identical swords, same teacher, different character masses.
***
Ike and The Black Knight are indeed similar for the most part, however there are differences to be noted upon.
First of which, Ike in Fire Emblem is much more mobile, seen using a skill called "Aether" in which he throws his sword high in the air, leaps up and grabs it, then brings in down hard on his opponent and then slashes once more in the process of a back-flip. Very nimble indeed.
The Black Knight, however, relies more on pure brute force and strength in combat; slowly approaching his opponent and then swinging the sword with incredible might (and decent speed in his attack).
The Black Knight should be slow-moving like Ganondorf and Bowser from Melee, yet quick and absurdly powerful in his attack motions.
The only problem I see with the Black Knight is his jumping (not including Teleport-idea for his thrid-jump). Jump distance would be pathetic like with Bowser.
Also, in Fire Emblem Path of Radiance, Ike ends up wielding a sword called Ragnell which is the counterpart (clone) of Black Knight's sword, called the Alondite.
Identical swords, same teacher, different character masses.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
extreme plate armor = heavy. even if it is magic
KidSmash
Smash Journeyman
Tijaro, Wiseguy and Stryks, u all have very good points 
Tijaro
Smash Cadet
Thank you.
Just trying to give credit to what would be an excellent addition to BRAWL.
Just trying to give credit to what would be an excellent addition to BRAWL.
mr_joey132
Smash Ace
I totally agree with you, lol. I was thinking the same.. Black Knight for brawl!
The_Corax_King
Smash Lord
or not....
Stryks
Smash Hero
^^^
Uhu... Black knight FTW!!
Uhu... Black knight FTW!!
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
C'mon Corax King, give us some actual reasons why you don't want the Black Knight should be included. That way we can actually have a debate rather than just bickering back and forth.
The case for BK is simple. Assuming that Brawl will include only two FE character as Melee did(one original charcater and one clone) Ike will undoubtably get in and BK will be included as an extremely heavy and powerful Ike clone.
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
****, this guy looks cool!
Did I already post on this thread? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't.
I suppose next to Ike, I'd love to see this guy from the Fire Emblem series.
Did I already post on this thread? Because I'm pretty sure I didn't.
I suppose next to Ike, I'd love to see this guy from the Fire Emblem series.
mr_joey132
Smash Ace
what makes you think that only 2 FE characters will be in? SSB64 had 1 starfox char, SSBM had 2. and Marth >>> Ike, Marth's just soooo cool with his white suit 
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Because, in spite of the fact that FE is one of Nintendo's best franchises it just doesn't have the massive fanbase that Zelda, Pokemon or even Starfox have. That's not to say I wouldn't like more thatn two FE characters, just don't expect more than two original characters. In my opinion, those two characters will most likely be Ike and the Black Knight.
Sorry, but it doesn't matter who you consider to be cooler. What matters is who would make a better representative for the FE series. By any standard, Ike is more important to the series than Marth.and Marth >>> Ike, Marth's just soooo cool with his white suit
Ike is ranked as the second most requested character on Sakurai's jaopanese poll (right after King Dedede) and he is popular among Fire Emblem fans around the world. He is the main lord in the two most recent Fire Embelm games (Path of Radiance and Goddess of Dawn) both of which have been released outside of Japan (where the majority of FE games are presently sold). Conversly, Marth has starred in 1.5 Fire Emblem games (the second was a remake) which were released over a decade ago, and only in Japan.
mr_joey132
Smash Ace
hmm, I think Marth is way more popular because of melee.. and maybe Ike isn't in.. because there are already a couple of new swordsman in the game.. we've got pit, metaknight, zero suit samus. And didn't they say they wouldn't remove much characters? so I think that Marth stays.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
uhh did you just called ZSS a swordsman.....by that you are implying shes a man! rofl
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Among Smash players, perhaps. But only becasue of his ultra overpowered moveset, not because of his personality traits. If Marth was nerfed, he would be as unpopular as Roy.
Regardless, what matters is who is more popular among fire Emblem fans. By this standard Ike is a far better representative than Marth.
Maybe the sun won't rise tommorow.
No, Sakurai stated definitively that some characters would be removed. Feel free to consult the translation thread under General Brawl Disscussion.
Master.Lord.Marth.
Smash Journeyman
Excuse me, but Ike is as important to the Fire Emblem series as the other 10 Lords from the previous games...only reason to say he got a shot is because he is the current one and thus he is known by the newer generation of FE players.*yes, those 10 year olds* Marth on the other hand has a historical importance, he was the first lord character in FE history, who was the main character in more than one game. Its like saying Deoxys should be in over pikachu, just because he is newer.
As far as the Black Knight, i love him to death but there are a lot more deserving FE characters that can make it. Examples? Sigurd, Lyn, Hector, Ephraim and so on.
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Ike is the first Fire Emblem Lord tostar in two original Fire Emblem games (Marth's second game was a remake) and he also starred in the two most recent Fire Emblems. This makes him far more important than any other fire Emblem lord in the series at present.
Marth may be the first Fire Embelm lord in Japan, but he has yet to star in a single internationally released game. Presently, there are more Fire Emblem games sold outside Japan than within, meaning that the majority of FE fans are are not japanese. It no longer makes sense for a Japanese-only character to be the representative for the franchise.
Also, (unlike Pikachu, Mario or Link) Marth is not the mascot for his franchise since he does not come close to appearing in the majority of Fire Embelm games. In fact, the majority of Fire Emblem fans will never play his games. Ike, on the other hand, is popular amonf Fire Emblem fans in all regions of the wrold- including those in Japan. This makes him a far better representative of the series.
Sigurd has the same problem as Marth: most Fire Embelm fans haven't played his game. As for Lyn, Hector and Ephriam the unpopularity of the GBA games in Japan is a hurdle that lessens their chances considerably.
The Black Knight appeared on Sakurai's poll, indicating that he was at least considered at some point. It's also worth noting that BK could be incorporated into Brawl as a slower, more powerful Ike clone. This means he could he would require less devlopment time than any other Fire Embelm character.
Zarasai
Smash Journeyman
why dont we just discuss the black knight for brawl here? the other FE characters have no palce in this thread, save maybe ike
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Whether or not other FE characters deserve a spot more than BK is important to this discussion, so I don't think we've gone too off topic.
Chief Mendez
Smash Master
Hmm, I seem to have been stricken by a mysterious case of deja vu. How odd.
Numa Dude
Smash Lord
This is my (mostly) original moveset for the BK in case anyone missed it.
Bane
Smash Journeyman
I have to say, that is a pretty impressive moveset Numa Dude. Everything you suggested is very true to the character.
The only thing I question is the super attack which, while appropriatly awesome, would be a little violent for Smash's light hearted atmosphere.
One question: couldn't this moveset be accomplished by making BK an Ike clone? Obviously certain moves like his teloportation ability would have to be original, but we know from Luigi and Ganonorf that a clone can still have one one or two unique attacks.
Wiseguy
Smash Champion
Oops, I guess I forgot to login under my account when I wrote the above statment. Nobody tell my brother that I used his alias or he'll kill me.