Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[[TSON]]

Well, Kirk went god-knows-where and was the one doing changelists. So no, not at the time. If he comes back, you'll know.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Got the sonic list up.

Sorry these are taking so long. I am slacking around instead of doing what I should (updating the Brawl- website and making it not look like ****; making more changelists; etc.)

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Oh, well in vBrawl getting that momentum is so rare (only ever when your recovering) and like heck Id ever use Counter out of it in vBrawl, so I apologize about not knowing about a useless technique in an inferior game. My bad.

However, the reverse slide I claim as my own, I know 100% sure that was never shown ever. I posted a download for the replay on Xyless's VM wall, if anyone can convert it and upload it, itd be appreciated. It isnt a very special video, but it shows all 3 variations

 

[TheBlackLink]

Got a few more videos up. Man am I lovin the combos in this thing.

Falcon vs. Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ungp-fzHi3Q

Falcon vs. Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZUzmxwH70

 

[Rkey]

The one thing thet REALLY bothers me right now is that there's no reverse hitbox on the knee. God I want that, allthough I seem to be the only one </3

Edit:

Falcon vs. Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ungp-fzHi3Q[/COLOR

OH MY GOD SO THAT'S WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH U-TAUNT FOR C. FALCON HOLY SH******************* ****** ***** * * ******** **** ****

Also: Entire movie was ******.

 

[ChronicleX]

I went to Homerun contest as Ganondorf, I pressed B, its been 5 mins and I have yet to see the sandbag...

 

[comboking]

Oh, well in vBrawl getting that momentum is so rare (only ever when your recovering) and like heck Id ever use Counter out of it in vBrawl, so I apologize about not knowing about a useless technique in an inferior game. My bad.

However, the reverse slide I claim as my own, I know 100% sure that was never shown ever. I posted a download for the replay on Xyless's VM wall, if anyone can convert it and upload it, itd be appreciated. It isnt a very special video, but it shows all 3 variations

I've done the reverse one before.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Got a few more videos up. Man am I lovin the combos in this thing.

Falcon vs. Ike
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ungp-fzHi3Q

Falcon vs. Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrZUzmxwH70

That is some nice Falcon.

I went to Homerun contest as Ganondorf, I pressed B, its been 5 mins and I have yet to see the sandbag...

Normal. :V

 

[Xyless]

Just popping on here to say that my house got hit by lightning, and none of the outlets in my room are working right now.

So...that will probably affect the combo video deadline.

 

[Slaps]

Which characters have taunts that do damage or have an affect? Cause I know some do that didn't do anything in vbrawl.

 

[Luxor]

Can someone running this w/ Gecko OS and HBC read me off all the relevant files and subdirectories and whatever on their SD card? I managed to get it to work, but it freezes at stage select , even though I don't have any custom stages. I've tried everything I could think of to fix it and I'm still lost.

 

[SpongeJordan]

Can someone running this w/ Gecko OS and HBC read me off all the relevant files and subdirectories and whatever on their SD card? I managed to get it to work, but it freezes at stage select , even though I don't have any custom stages. I've tried everything I could think of to fix it and I'm still lost.

private/wii/app/rsbe/pf/fighter/ - with all of the glorious subdirectories.
private/wii/app/rsbe/pf/menu/ - strap loader goes in here.
private/wii/app/rsbe/pf/menu2/ - sc_selcharacter.pac goes here. It's for CSS. Not necessary.
private/wii/app/rsbe/pf/system/ - common3.pac goes here. It IS necessary. Contains all the item changes.
private/wii/app/rsbe/pfmenu2/ - mu_menumain.pac goes here. It's the main menu's background, aka the purple **** that pretty much shows its B-.

apps/gecko/ - The Gecko app.
codes/rsbe01.gct - the GCT.
gameconfig.txt

IMO, I'd just reformat the card then run a defrag, then try it again. That usually helps stupid problems.

 

[Shiroyu]

I went to Homerun contest as Ganondorf, I pressed B, its been 5 mins and I have yet to see the sandbag...

Psh, you need to try getting two 'Dorfs reverse warlock punching.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Just popping on here to say that my house got hit by lightning, and none of the outlets in my room are working right now.

So...that will probably affect the combo video deadline.

****. That's what you meant by thunderstruck. I hope everything is good soon.

 

[SpongeJordan]

Just popping on here to say that my house got hit by lightning, and none of the outlets in my room are working right now.

So...that will probably affect the combo video deadline.

You've been... THUNDERSTRUCK!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

[collapse=Zelda]
------------------
==Zelda==
------------------

==JABS/DASH ATTACK==

Jab 1 - Small Hitbox (marked with star) added slightly in front of zelda; does 10 damage and pops straight up (weak)

Dash Attack - Large Hitbox (marked with star) added a good ways in front and a bit under Zelda (if onstage, should hit near the ledge or inside the stage); spikes with medium knockback

==TILTS==

Forward Tilt - Medium hitbox (marked with star) added slightly in front of zelda which drags the opponent in and down with moderate damage and knockback.

Up Tilt - Very small hitbox (marked with lightning) added way (6 zeldas?) above zelda. Does massive damage, will almost always kill if it connects.

Down Tilt - Medium hitbox (marked with star) added a good ways forwards and a good ways down. Hits under the stage; spikes with powerful knockback and damage

==SMASHES==

Forward Smash - Hitboxes that mirror normal fsmash (marked with sparkles) added a good distance in front of zelda.

Up Smash - No Changes

Down Smash - No Changes

==AERIALS==

Neutral Air - Can be canceled into anything shortly after the first spin (including nair)

Forward Air - Medium hitbox (marked with star) a good distance in front of zelda. Heavy damage, powerful knockback towards zelda (low growth)

Back Air - Medium hitbox (marked with star) a good distance in behind of zelda. Heavy damage, powerful knockback towards zelda (low growth)

Up Air - No changes

Down Air - Medium hitbox (marked with a star) about two zeldas below zelda. Heavy damage, moderate damage upwards

==GRABS/THROWS==

Standing Grab - No changes

Dash Grab - No changes

Pivot Grab - No changes

Pummel - No changes

Forward Throw - Damage and knockback up. IASA up.

Back Throw - Damage and Knockback up (kills quite early)

Up Throw - Damage and Knockback up (kills quite early)

Down Throw - Damage up considerably; faster IASA

==SPECIALS==

Neutral Special - No changes

Side Special - Can be canceled into a grounded special or an airdodge during the looping animation (allows for din's fire->din's fire). Longer growth. Doesn't explode on contact with ground/walls. Gets bigger; more knockback/damage. Lower angle.

Up Special - Far more reach. Endlag on aerial version halved. If started on the ground, cannot go over a ledge. If started in the air, strong, large spike hitbox shortly after the initial hitbox (can't hit if the initial hits) to prevent her from being gimped too hard. If ended on the ground, there's a large spiking hitbox below her that only hits aerial opponents (punishes ledgecampers). If ended in the air, lag down

Down Special - Why would you ever use this?

==OTHER==

Attributes - No changes[/collapse]

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

This is probably the wrong place, but where would I be able to get Rumble Falls and The Summits neutral stages for B-?

 

[Hozu]

Check the Competitive Stage Hacking Thread, or just grab the stages from Brawl+. You need STGJUNGLE.PAC, st_jungle.rel (this goes in pf/module) and STGICE.PAC. Note that for Summit+ you'll need to freeze the stage through codes.

 

[theeboredone]

I have a few suggestions on what you guys should work on for the next release (if this is the right place to post this).

1. I feel like you guys made this too much like Brawl+ in certain aspects. The main part being the hit stun you get after getting hit. Now I realize it enables for more "combos", but in Brawl-, people can die relatively early, especially with the more powerful characters which makes hit stun kinda ********. The same aspect can be applied for shield grabbing. It's almost impossible to shield grab someone after you block their attack, because the hit stun lasts way too long for you to react. My tip would be to lessen the hit stun by a good amount, or take it out completely like it is in regular Brawl.

2. What is the purpose of this game exactly? Do you want tournies to host Brawl- tournaments? If so, I'm gonna find it super hard to make it balanced when everyone is so powerful. Personally, I find the most enjoyment while playing a FFA. This can even extend to casual players as well, since the game is more ridiculously fun and funny to play. So defining what the purpose of the game is gives you more room to focus on what should be done instead of fighting for everyone's happiness and making a not so good alternative version of Brawl. If you had to ask my opinion, I would focus on it being used mainly for friendlies and shenanigans, because the amount of ridiculous stuff that happens always has me laughing every other 10 seconds.

That's all for now. I've been playing the Beta since it came out, and finally decided to post my thoughts on what's what.

 

[ChronicleX]

I checked your forums out and saw you were looking for an idea on how to implant Final Smash. Here is an idea for you, Guilty Gear Style.

 

[Izaniki]

Can anyone explain what happened here http://www.youtube.com/user/esmasher#p/a/u/0/xziJPBxxZ18 at 2:57~ with Zelda's Usmash? Was there a windbox on something I missed or what? Zelda uses Usmash and THEN slides (not a hyphen smash) o.O

Thanks

 

[Eternal Smasher]

Can anyone explain what happened here http://www.youtube.com/user/esmasher#p/a/u/0/xziJPBxxZ18 at 2:57~ with Zelda's Usmash? Was there a windbox on something I missed or what? Zelda uses Usmash and THEN slides (not a hyphen smash) o.O

Thanks

Oh, that was Pit's windbox. I think sliding Zelda U-Smash is too much even for Minus.

 

[Izaniki]

Windbox on his jumps? :o If so, I can't believe how I missed that when playing him D:

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I have a few suggestions on what you guys should work on for the next release (if this is the right place to post this).

1. I feel like you guys made this too much like Brawl+ in certain aspects. The main part being the hit stun you get after getting hit. Now I realize it enables for more "combos", but in Brawl-, people can die relatively early, especially with the more powerful characters which makes hit stun kinda ********. The same aspect can be applied for shield grabbing. It's almost impossible to shield grab someone after you block their attack, because the hit stun lasts way too long for you to react. My tip would be to lessen the hit stun by a good amount, or take it out completely like it is in regular Brawl.

Ew.

All right. First of all, we like combos around here. There's no mistaking that. The hitstun buff (which is independent from the shieldstun buff) is part of a goal to raise the incentive on the whole "attack and keep pressure" thing. IMO, one of the biggest problems in vBrawl is that there's no real possibility to go for combos, and therefore the risk/reward ratio on playing aggressively is far, far lower than the risk/reward ratio for playing campy.

Same thing with shieldgrabbing! The shield is not safe any more. In fact, if you block a strong attack, you're the one who's likely to get grabbed. The stun values aren't going anywhere soon.

Let's take this bit by bit...

2. What is the purpose of this game exactly?

Balance by making everyone severely broken (and often very interesting and different).

Do you want tournies to host Brawl- tournaments?

Obviously.

If so, I'm gonna find it super hard to make it balanced when everyone is so powerful. Personally, I find the most enjoyment while playing a FFA. This can even extend to casual players as well, since the game is more ridiculously fun and funny to play.

Actually, we're finding exactly the opposite. It's clear that there's going to be a best character, and a worse. It's also clear that some will just be really ****ing good. However, take a look at the cast and tell me if any one is stupidly overpowered, or if any one is really underpowered? Of course not! The reason? Everyone has options. It was easy to see that CF was terrible, and Ganon was terrible. But now, almost everyone has a ton of options. This means that it is at least more balanced than vBrawl right from the get-go. Granted, getting it perfect will be hard, and require extensive playtesting, but we're on the right track.

So defining what the purpose of the game is gives you more room to focus on what should be done instead of fighting for everyone's happiness and making a not so good alternative version of Brawl. If you had to ask my opinion, I would focus on it being used mainly for friendlies and shenanigans, because the amount of ridiculous stuff that happens always has me laughing every other 10 seconds.

...Oh dear. And now you are vouching for casualness.

Perhaps I should state clearly why I want to take the basics of competitive play with me to brawl minus; and what I hold to be the basics.
The basics are, IMO, what every fighting game needs to be fun, engaging, and worth playing at any level. They are:
-No specific strategy or character is completely overdominant.

Can you win the game doing nothing but spamming one move? Can you beat anyone not using character X with ease by using character X correctly? If yes, then the game is BAD. It's a sign that something has gone wrong. This quality of a game needs to be manipulated to make this strategy unusable, or the game must be edited.
​

-Every character has a chance at winning

Self-explanatory. Nothing worse than sinking a few days into learning Ganondorf, only to find that he has 90-10 MUs across the board, eh? No, being able to win with your character is important.​

-A minimum of "luck" elements should be present

Don't you hate it when you are about to win and suddenly a bomb drops on you? Yeah, I know. I know, there are some people who enjoy this. Most like to earn their wins. (This one DOES have it's limits in Brawl-)​

I refuse to move away from points 1 and 2 under any circumstances, and will try to make sure we aren't actively steering towards 3. I have the feeling I've forgotten something, but whatever. You get the point. Games that follow these rules are just generally more fun.

That's all for now. I've been playing the Beta since it came out, and finally decided to post my thoughts on what's what.

Thanks for the feedback.

I checked your forums out and saw you were looking for an idea on how to implant Final Smash. Here is an idea for you, Guilty Gear Style.

Not a big fan. Really not.

Can anyone explain what happened here http://www.youtube.com/user/esmasher#p/a/u/0/xziJPBxxZ18 at 2:57~ with Zelda's Usmash? Was there a windbox on something I missed or what? Zelda uses Usmash and THEN slides (not a hyphen smash) o.O

Thanks

Vs. Pit? Definitely wind.

 

[[TSON]]

Windbox on his jumps? :o If so, I can't believe how I missed that when playing him D:

Nah, it's when he lands.

1. I feel like you guys made this too much like Brawl+ in certain aspects. The main part being the hit stun you get after getting hit. Now I realize it enables for more "combos", but in Brawl-, people can die relatively early, especially with the more powerful characters which makes hit stun kinda ********. The same aspect can be applied for shield grabbing. It's almost impossible to shield grab someone after you block their attack, because the hit stun lasts way too long for you to react. My tip would be to lessen the hit stun by a good amount, or take it out completely like it is in regular Brawl.

Simply put, Super Smash Bros: Stall rewards playing overly defensively and in most situations, if you attack, you're the one making the mistake. We're straying as far away from that as possible.

You can still shieldgrab btw, on most strong attacks and most of snake's. :B

 

[standardtoaster]

Windbox on his jumps? :o If so, I can't believe how I missed that when playing him D:

Nah, it's when he lands.

Correction: The windbox happens when he does his heavy landing.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I checked your forums out and saw you were looking for an idea on how to implant Final Smash. Here is an idea for you, Guilty Gear Style.

That would be so great. But I'm super biased towards anything Guilty Gear.

 

[Crystalorbie]

That would be two things I really think Peach is missing as a character.

Range. (really, her range on most attacks is her plus a bit ahead of where she is going, and I do realize I'm overgeneralizing it, but I hope you get the point at least) Not to be a major annoyance, but finding characters like Bowser, who already had a good range on most of his attacks in vBrawl, got range increases or windboxes to draw opponents in on his attacks and Peach got basically no range increase on the individual attacks. (I realize side-b is used to move better for aerials, but that doesn't extend the range of those attacks themselves...) [Downsmash appears to have gotten some small draw-in windboxes, but mostly unnoticable if they are in...]

Shieldstun. Peach doesn't really do much to shields with any attacks that I've seen, and most characters can still grab her right after shielding her attacks. Or worse, Marth will spotdodge and Forwardsmash right back... but thats a different story altogether.

That reminds me, I thought there were plans to implement bouncing off the shield of opponents, rather than go through them (and open yourself up to a forward smash when you go through or not quite go through...) like they do now?


And I realize this one's a major personal gripe, but Marth (not so much other characters, as you can dodge or shield them, or the counter has weird timing that makes it hard to use) and his counter appear way too broken. The blasted move activates instantly (I can deal with that, but combined with->) and seems to last about twice as long as any other counter move available.

Simply put:
Ike: Usable, and apparently has a 5% chance to OHKO? Fine by me
Peach: mostly used defensively, but definitely usable compared to what it was in Melee and vBrawl (at least, it appears changed from vBrawl)
Lucario: Has to be used with pinpoint timing sometimes, because too early and you give yourself away to your opponent to charge a smash instead of instant smashing. Easily dodgable, this move could actually use a boost.

Marth: so usable that anyone with mild unpredictability can use it practically whenever they dang well please, if anything it needs its counter window shortened a lot, but maybe make it broken by increasing damage somewhat. Not to mention it has so little endlag that, unlike the other counters, you will rarely get to charge a smash to punish it.

My apologies if I missed something that makes some or all of my suggestions/complaints worthless/invalid.

 

[[TSON]]

Lol marth's counter is unchanged from brawl

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Lol marth's counter is unchanged from brawl

This would be what you missed.

 

[Izaniki]

Correction: The windbox happens when he does his heavy landing.

It didn't look like he landed in that video, that's why I was wondering if it was something else. Gonna go watch it again :o

Scratch that. He AD'd through the Usmash, landed, then got caught. Thanks for the info on that

 

[MASTERLINKX]

I also agree Peach needing a bit more buff.

I always get out ranged a lot.

And maybe to be spoiled, can you make her have some % chance of her Side Special being an explosion when she hits? Not making it over powered, but stronger than the original hit.

:3

 

[Zwarm]

Just throwing this out there. Rotation mode is a good idea for people who hate unplugging their controllers after every match.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Actually, on the note of that sliding U-smash, Ive seen it before, without Pit present, Zelda (Lvl 9 CPU) preformed it on my Ike. How it was done, no idea, Im sure our minus co-horts can explain it though.

Just got done playing a lot of wifi with my friend, we desynched like 4 times, but we're pretty sure it was just cuz of textures and music that did it, no specific character (well, MK was involved in 4 of the desynchs or so)

 

[Yoshara]

I wrote out a basic (as in it is about as detailed as what is currently up for the other characters) character guide/discussion for Wolf, and I would like to know if there is anything for formatting that I should know about?

 

[Nelo Vergil]

Let me see Yosh, my guide although incomplete (but ongoing) was just fine for our friends here, so I can tell you if yours is good or not

 

[Crystalorbie]

I figured as much, but even in vBrawl it lasts way too long, then follows with basically no endlag (defined here as time where you can punish Marth before he spot dodges and follows with a grab or, more likely, a forward smash...)

It can't be just me that has a problem with it... can it?

 

[Zwarm]

Sooo.... Is there anyone who hard-counters Shiek? I've tried ROB, Bowser, Samus, and Wolf, and none of them work. Shiek is actually starting to piss me off a bit. She needs some sort of nerf in my opinion. When you can just go invisible and needle camp people then sneak up and down smash people, it's pretty dumb. Almost everything goes through Bowser's heavy armor. Idk, it's just stupidly hard to have correct DI when you don't know what's coming. It makes fighting her even harder. Would it be possible to have it so the tag never goes away? If not, at least make her needles charge like they do in vBrawl. They're way too fast in Minus.

/johns

 

[Yoshara]

I have no problem fighting Shiek, all you need to do is know what your opponent will want to do, and act on that (ie; If Shiek wants to start a combo on me I throw a attack in the direction that she will most likely come from). It also helps to look for the little dust clouds that kick up when she starts to move.

 

[Zwarm]

She doesn't have to dash, she could easily just roll around you, all the while making her tag disappear, and you have no idea what's coming next. If you jump, you get uair'd or fair'd, if you stay on the ground, you get smashed, if you run away, you get needled. It's almost impossible to know where they are coming from, because they can just roll behind you, dash attack behind you, or spotdodge making you think they're going behind you and attack, and the tag is gone throughout all of this. It just makes it so hard to DI when you don't know what's coming. =/