Brawl- 2.1.1 Legacy thread

[Lightosia]

Let's see if I convince a TO here to do a Brawl- side event.

I just hope that Godz's Bowser doesn't win again. u.u

 

[cicerron]

Europe loves Brawl-. :D

That's right!

 

[Orion*]

People here in the GTA refuse to take it seriously. I'll get crap like "Brawl- will NEVER be competitive" and **** like that. I guess people being salty over Brawl+ dying, there was actually a fairly sizable community for it here.

Actually suddenly I feel like playing Brawl+. I miss it.

Gotta be honest (and I usually almost never compare US to EU because I don't think it's really worth it) but...

The players in NJ/NY where so much better at the game than the EU players, to the point where you could actually assume you where getting zero to deathed by the top tiers if you got hit. Most of the time I watched here it was just a lot of walling with some ******** combo lmao, the players here didn't take the time to Truly learn the followups of their character.
Nairo, Nakat, Deltacod, Zucco and Diem where literally Broken. Ksizzle was also realllly amazing.

There's a difference between mindlessly spamming waddles and setting up a careful brick wall. You might not see it, but trust me-it's there. It's actually really hard to successfully wall with DDD against characters who can approach from the air well.

There was... nothing careful in what you did. At least in the matches I saw you play vs me and kaos. It's safe enough, and they have enough priority that at least in the MU's I saw them in they where pretty spammable. You can't even reflect them >_> (LMAO AT THEM BEATING TORNADO)
It's a brick wall, yes.
Is it precise... not really. Let alone there not really being a technical factor involved, it's just point and shoot at option covers on reaction. Since waddle dees don't even go away after 2 anymore, they continue to reduce options, apply pressure, give the risk of gordo's and force your opponent to approach.

What you should aim for in terms of careful walls is something like jiggs (or fox) in melee if you Really want that. It's not technical in terms of oh, I have to learn to do all this ****, but you have to really space super accurately all the time and never get greedy to not immediately get *** ****ed by anyone with a half decent fox. Otherwise this game will revolve to what it did back home (camp/PLANK with bull****, if the other person approaches they take some large combo at worst if not they die.), and eventually people will get bored and quit....

this is just my personal exp with the game, you don't have to take my opinion

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Maybe reduce the amount of waddles out by 1. Personally I think 4 is just too powerful. ESPECIALLY on something like FD.

Oh, and can Fountain of Dreams be added to the official stagelist? Seriously, it was the best stage in Melee, and now there's a 100% complete version for Brawl except for reflections.

 

[Yikarur]

what Orion said is how I felt playing Kunai xDD

 

[Virum]

Europe loves Brawl-. :D

Indeed we do XD.

Also, I have two questions as regards to DK (I'm using 2.0 DK so the barrel glitch doesn't happen):

1) How come he just spawns a Franklin Badge for his Up Taunt? It seems really out of place. May I suggest that instead, he gains the ability to reflect projectiles during some of the frames of that taunt? I could program that for you guys if you want?

2) What exactly does his Down B in the air do? As far as I can see it just makes him do his Down Taunt. Is it secretly some sort of "Rest" like attack that I'm not quite seeing or something?

 

[Linkshot]

You can't shark on 1337m. The floor isn't thin enough, and it's solid in both directions. The side platform may be an issue (dear god it's hard to approach a DK who's sitting there chucking barrels...), but if it is, that's an easy fix, I suppose.

Take a moment to look at the bolded part.
Now tell me that isn't absolutely perfect?

1) How come he just spawns a Franklin Badge for his Up Taunt? It seems really out of place. May I suggest that instead, he gains the ability to reflect projectiles during some of the frames of that taunt? I could program that for you guys if you want?

2) What exactly does his Down B in the air do? As far as I can see it just makes him do his Down Taunt. Is it secretly some sort of "Rest" like attack that I'm not quite seeing or something?

1) He's ripping it out of his chest hair.

2) "What the **** do you want me to do?"

 

[Supreme Dirt]

My god it is.

Also DK crashed the game again. On Halberd, fighting a Lucario. It froze just before the fadeout after "GAME". DK was in the middle of a side-B, head all the way forward. No barrels on the stage.

 

[Virum]

Take a moment to look at the bolded part.

1) He's ripping it out of his chest hair.

2) "What the **** do you want me to do?"

1) Lol

2) wut?

Nah but seriously, I'd be more than happy to do the thing I said above. Makes him seem more like the king of the jungle or whatever that big ape is supposed to be. It wouldn't even be too difficult, and I'd love to be able to contribute to Brawl- somehow ^^

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Indeed we do XD.

Also, I have two questions as regards to DK (I'm using 2.0 DK so the barrel glitch doesn't happen):

1) How come he just spawns a Franklin Badge for his Up Taunt? It seems really out of place. May I suggest that instead, he gains the ability to reflect projectiles during some of the frames of that taunt? I could program that for you guys if you want?

It's to stop him from getting ***** by chars like Falco, Link, TL, etc.

Take a moment to look at the bolded part.
Now tell me that isn't absolutely perfect?

I know. I find that so hilarious. It's perfect.

 

[Linkshot]

My god it is.

Also DK crashed the game again. On Halberd, fighting a Lucario. It froze just before the fadeout after "GAME". DK was in the middle of a side-B, head all the way forward. No barrels on the stage.

My theory is that a crucial part of SideB's action is getting skipped because of the IASA.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Except I didn't interrupt it.

 

[Xyless]

I just wish I could get a replay of it freezing, so I could really get down to the cause of it.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Yeah if only it worked that way.

Also, suggestion time.

Allow selection of solo Popo and solo Nana. I know you can do it, in my vBrawl codeset I have a CSS that lets me pick them.

 

[MonkUnit]

Why would you want that.

 

[Xyless]

We might hypothetically be able to make a smashtaunt that kills her on the spot.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Why not? And also why do that, why not just have them independently selectable? I was just 5 minutes ago messing around in vBrawl with independent Nana.

 

[MonkUnit]

What does singular ICs have over regular ICs?

 

[Linkshot]

You don't have to babysit a ******.

Otherwise nothing.

 

[GP&B]

You don't have to babysit a ******.

Otherwise nothing.

Just posted to say this made me lol hard.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Also it's the only way to play as just Nana. Maybe a smash taunt to kill Nana as both of them, and then singular Nana? Smash taunt seems the minusiest way to do SoPo, but singular Nana can only be done by being selectable on the CSS.

It has the benefit of giving the player more options without changing ANYTHING when it comes to Matchup dynamics.

 

[MonkUnit]

Supreme Dirt, you have yet to answer my question.

Why in the world would you EVER want to be SoPo instead of ICs?

With ICs, you do more damage, have an actual recovery, can CG, etc. With SoPo, you have...low dmg combos, less combos, dthrow CG, and thats pretty much it.

 

[DtJ Composer]

You can single nana by selecting one of the Ice Climber colors that makes you start as nana, then kill popo.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Why would people ever want to play Roy in Melee?

As Marth, you do more damage, you can combo, you don't get ***** because you're a FFer, and you can kill things. Yet there are Roy mains.

You ask me why, I simply respond why not? It's a relatively simple thing to add to the game, and doesn't really change much.


Also Composer, Nana legitimately has different hitboxes from Popo. Using vBrawl as an example, Nana has almost no hitlag on any of her moves, her FAir spikes, and I'm sure there are less obvious properties. I expect the same goes for Minus.

 

[theEffinBear]

Why would people ever want to play Roy in Melee?

As Marth, you do more damage, you can combo, you don't get ***** because you're a FFer, and you can kill things. Yet there are Roy mains.

You ask me why, I simply respond why not? It's a relatively simple thing to add to the game, and doesn't really change much.


Also Composer, Nana legitimately has different hitboxes from Popo. Using vBrawl as an example, Nana has almost no hitlag on any of her moves, her FAir spikes, and I'm sure there are less obvious properties. I expect the same goes for Minus.

Oh, you mean to play a solo secondary Climber (which is Nana for the default color, and Popo for two of them). My initial reading was that you were asking to play a solo primary Climber, which is much less interesting.

We haven't messed with the character select screen due to the technical problems that can cause; we'd also have to examine the issue of solo secondary Climber more closely (e.g. things like tilt cooldown) but it's certainly something to keep in mind.

/RtEB

 

[DtJ Composer]

Nana is more of a utility than a character right now. Being able to just play her would be weird.
Mainly sliding smashes and weird ftilt.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

So?
Actually, rather than talk, I'm going to implement the CSS I use into it and upload some matches of just-Nana.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Double post, w/e. It's been a day almost.

Fighting Zero Suit Samus is pretty demoralizing. Seriously, one grab results in a string that can do upwards of 50%, is almost impossible to get out of, and on a stage like 1337m is a 0-to-death. ****ing UAir.

 

[Zef]

uploadan some minus

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I'll be uploading about 4 hours of friendlies at some point this week.

Few things from a friend.

1. If Peach pulls a turnip right out of hitstun, she can't do anything, she just sort of falls to her death. She can't even grab the ledge.
2. Lucas's side-B momentum is annoying. You can't use it offstage anymore to knock somebody off the ledge so you can ZAir grab it.
3. Mario Bros. still sucks.
4. DK still crashes the game. Happened while I was camping with barrels.
5. Charizard still can grab release the mother kids.

Suggestion for fixing 5: implement Melee grab release.

 

[MonkUnit]

3. That will always remain.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh, I'd also like to report that Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 is a completely legitimate stage for competition. Walkoff camping is heavily reduced by a number of things there, and so many other problems people have with it are either high risk, high reward tactics (and thus VERY good for competition) or high risk, low reward tactics (and thus stupid).

Also I found out that natively, without codes, you can pick which stage you go to. Just nobody noticed it because the stage got passed up so early. Y/X for 1-1, L/R for 1-2.

I'm also convinced the original, ledgeless version is fine in vBrawl now.

 

[Linkshot]

I'll be uploading about 4 hours of friendlies at some point this week.

Few things from a friend.

1. If Peach pulls a turnip right out of hitstun, she can't do anything, she just sort of falls to her death. She can't even grab the ledge.
2. Lucas's side-B momentum is annoying. You can't use it offstage anymore to knock somebody off the ledge so you can ZAir grab it.
3. Mario Bros. still sucks.
4. DK still crashes the game. Happened while I was camping with barrels.
5. Charizard still can grab release the mother kids.

Suggestion for fixing 5: implement Melee grab release.

1. Not enough meat in the action. Needs touching up.
2. Hold the B button to move forward instead of backward.
3. Use Vega's
4. Something about Actions and failure to shift states properly. That or a pointer.
5. They only have 1 badge, that's why.

Oh, I'd also like to report that Mushroomy Kingdom 1-2 is a completely legitimate stage for competition. Walkoff camping is heavily reduced by a number of things there, and so many other problems people have with it are either high risk, high reward tactics (and thus VERY good for competition) or high risk, low reward tactics (and thus stupid).

Also I found out that natively, without codes, you can pick which stage you go to. Just nobody noticed it because the stage got passed up so early. Y/X for 1-1, L/R for 1-2.

I'm also convinced the original, ledgeless version is fine in vBrawl now.

You're hanging around BBrawl too much. Or not enough, based on the second paragraph.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Every time I've picked it in the past week with no codes it has been whatever it would be with those button presses.

Also the whole hold vs. release is the whole problem. If you move forward with it, you tend to end up under the stage.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'll be uploading about 4 hours of friendlies at some point this week.

Few things from a friend.

1. If Peach pulls a turnip right out of hitstun, she can't do anything, she just sort of falls to her death. She can't even grab the ledge.

Known glitch; we don't know how to fix it though.

2. Lucas's side-B momentum is annoying. You can't use it offstage anymore to knock somebody off the ledge so you can ZAir grab it.

So? Lucas has a REALLY GOOD RECOVERY NOW.

4. DK still crashes the game. Happened while I was camping with barrels.

Incredibly hard to debug, very rare. Any details are valued.

5. Charizard still can grab release the mother kids.

WTF?!

 

[Alopex]

What kind of details would be useful for the DK glitch? I'll do some playtesting with DK versus every character in every stage and see when it crashes, if that'll help. Maybe I'll find a pattern...

 

[Virum]

Daymn, FFAs in Brawl- are mental. Especially against CPUs, who have a distinct hate towards the player and only go after them. It's like they set themselves up to combo me perfectly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufOm34FvNPE

This isn't actually the best example, this is mainly for lulz. There was another match like this where Luigi used his FS and one of the other CPUs got set to sleep and was on high damage. Instead of going for that CPU (who didn't even get touched), Luigi and the third CPU gang r**** me o.O

 

[Supreme Dirt]

It tends to crash when I'm barrel camping.

Also apparently I was wrong about the Grab Release remaining. Not all the character files got replaced when I updated with the patch for some reason. Charizard and Ness were 2 of them.

 

[Dnyce]

This is truly the best hacked Olimar I have ever played. I don't even know the gimmicks with the B- engine yet, but you've fixed almost every aspect of his in vbrawl aside from giving him faster aerial or ground speed.

//orgasming


Edit: Could you make his pikmin pluck last longer. I'm not quite sure why it's so short - makes it hard to wave bounce in the air. The whole being able to pluck over 6 was a neat aspect I miss.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

This is truly the best hacked Olimar I have ever played. I don't even know the gimmicks with the B- engine yet, but you've fixed almost every aspect of his in vbrawl aside from giving him faster aerial or ground speed.

//orgasming


Edit: Could you make his pikmin pluck last longer. I'm not quite sure why it's so short - makes it hard to wave bounce in the air. The whole being able to pluck over 6 was a neat aspect I miss.

The idea of it being so short is so that you can switch back and forth between olimar and solimar really quickly. Even the death whistle is only 10 frames long. We should probably add back the "pluck more than 6" bit.