Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[kupo15]

I also think Kupo was on the right path in pointing out Brawl's defense vs 64's offense. Even hitstun equal to 64 would probably be passable, since we already have a lot more defensive options to prevent run-away offense . Better DI, better shields, air dodging, not to mention spot dodging...all these defensive options would counter any run-away offense we might create with codes, don't you think?

I'll mess around with the hitstun code tonight or tomorrow. But don't you guys think you should be PM'ing Phantom Wings with all this info? Or whoever else is actually hacking?

Kupo, I don't think it would be out of line to create a new thread to showcase your argument for a more 64 oriented hacking approach.

Yea, the defense is good enough that 64 offense should match beautifully. What you got to realize is that 0-death combos are going to be harder to do than what ppl think. MK can't combo after his Dthrow with good DI. If you DI down and away and tech, there is no way he can combo you. Ppl think the same with Snake's ftilt. DI towards the floor and tech. This will be key to not get 0-deathed

I may make a 64 offense thread.

One possible solution to the flinch problem is to use the animation replacement code to change all the flinch animantions to tumble ones. It's worth a try. I'd do it if I had the code.

What will this do to snakes ftilt? lol no more ftilt lock..yay!

 

[Revven]

I really hope we can find space to disable the auto-sweet spotting. I honestly think it really ruins edge guarding.

It'd also be nice to have that little glitch happen again where if you roll onto the stage it still counts as though you're on the edge.

And I believe what zxeon is talking about is the Action Modifier... and I don't think weak hits is clearly written in the value list... I'll post the code and its values and see if you guys can figure it out.

Player Action Modifier: (Phantom Wings)
4A000000 8077F780
D2000000 00000004
2C030000 41820010
2C1C0XXX 40820008
3B800YYY 60000000
939E0038 00000000
XXX=replaced
YYY=replaced with
Notes:
1. Some actions are only for specific people (crawling for example) and will cause a 

freeze if used with those who can't use that action.
2. Some action replacements will cause the game to freeze if certain requirements 

aren't met(throwing when you don't have someone, or standing in midair don't work)
LIST:
000 Stand
001 Walk
002 
003 Dash
004 Run
005 Stop
006 Turn 1
007 Turn 2
008 Stop Turn
009 
00A Start Jump
00B Jump
00C Second Jump
00E Fall 1
00F Fall 2
010 Fall Dissabled
011 Enter Crouch
012 Crouch
013 
014 
015 Exit Crouch
016 Land 1
017 Land 2
018 
019 Land Dissabled
01A Enter Shield
01B Shield
01C Exit Shield
01D Perfect Shield??
01E Dodge
01F Roll Forward
020 Roll Back
021 Air Dodge
022 
023 
024 N Attack(and Combo)
025 
026 R Attack
027 S Attack
028 U Attack
029 D Attack
02A S Smash Charge
02B S Smash 
02C S Smash(again?)
02D D Smash Charge
02E D Smash
02F D Smash
030 U Smash Charge
031 U Smash
032 U Smash
033 Air Attack(All???)
034 Grab
035 Grabbing Enemy
036
037
038
039 Hold
03A Grab Attack
03B Release
03C Throw
03E Held
03F Held Damage
040 Escape
041
042 Thrown
043 Damage 1
044 Damage 2
045 Air Damage
046 Hit ground(back)
047 Hit ground(face)
0BD Death
*0BE Respawn
0F2 Enlarge(and Size Revert)
0F3 Shrink(and Size Revert)
10B Unloaded
10C Taunt(All 3)
10D 
*10E Entrance
*10F Victory(All)
*110 Loss
* These ones can't be replaced with the standard action replacement code. But they can 

be used for a replacement. If you want to replace these, use the Special Action 

Modifier code.

Figure it out!

 

[Makkun]

I'll definitely take a look at it tomorrow, but I'm heading to bed now.

 

[leafgreen386]

00E Fall 1
00F Fall 2
010 Fall Disabled

...

043 Damage 1
044 Damage 2
045 Air Damage

HELLO NURSE!

I think it has to be Fall 1 and Fall 2 that we're looking for here. It might be the damage ones, though. I'm not really sure what they're for, tbh. Either way, this is definitely doable. We just need to make the tumble state have stun now.

 

[zxeon]

Thanks Falco I'll get on it see what I can do.

 

[MBlaze]

With the perfect hitstun system in are we gonna do the Melee or Brawl air dodge? I don't mind either with hitstun.

 

[kupo15]

thats the debate. I would like to test, melee, brawl and I wish I could code a melee air dodge that lets you do stuff afterwards except air dodge again.

 

[zxeon]

Swapping damage 1 and 2 don't seem to have the desired effect. I'm gonna try the fall ones next.

 

[leafgreen386]

Thanks for testing it, but I think we've come up with a better solution.

We already knew we wanted codes for 1) stopping aerials/ADs in hitstun, and 2) to force inaction in a tumble for X frames.

The problem was that attacks didn't send into a tumble soon enough. Note that doesn't mean we want it to be right away, which is where our problem comes in. With the replacement code flinch hits will cause people to go into a tumble from 0%. If someone jumped and you jabbed them, they'll go into a tumble. It just wouldn't be good. So we figured out the blindingly obvious. We need a universal code that will cause characters to enter tumble X frames earlier.

Which means the three codes we need are:
1) Stop aerials/ADs in hitstun
2) Disable action in tumble for X number of frames
3) Cause characters to enter tumble X frames earlier than they usually would

 

[unwelc0med]

cool, but HBC beta 9 is up, you might want to remove the don't update your wii part.

 

[zxeon]

Damage 1 and 2 turned out to be the animations for when you are thrown against the ground and you make an impact particle effect. From their names none of the other animations seem to be the one I am looking for maybe what I'm looking for is in the special animations code. If anyone else wants to test using this code go ahead. If only there was a catalogue that showed the name of each animation.

 

[kupo15]

Damage 1 and 2 turned out to be the animations for when you are thrown against the ground and you make an impact particle effect. From their names none of the other animations seem to be the one I am looking for maybe what I'm looking for is in the special animations code. If anyone else wants to test using this code go ahead. If only there was a catalogue that showed the name of each animation.

What are you trying to do? If your trying to replace flinching with tumbling, we realized thats a problem. Even in 64 pikas utilt didn't put you in tumble until 47. Jabs dont put you in tumble till about 138. So it would be broken if a jab can put you in tumble at 0.

 

[zxeon]

It couldn't hurt to try it out.

 

[kupo15]

ok go for it. I just wanted to give you a heads up! ^_^

 

[izzy24]

You can't just alter a code without knowing what each line does, and you still might not be able to alter said code without a USB Gecko or decent understanding of what you would need to change. It's not that simple.

But IF it is possible and some1 with the right knowledge can do it, then why not?, that way nothing extra gets added. I know it could take a while but this hacking thing just started and as long as its made for making a more balanced game then....

 

[Starscream]

It'd also be nice to have that little glitch happen again where if you roll onto the stage it still counts as though you're on the edge.

Hmmmm, maybe. Not sure on that. As much as we probably all abused it in Melee, it's just incredibly easy to do for a free kill. Doesn't make the edge guarder really work for their kill.

But auto-sweetspotting needs to be gone. Not only is recovery too easy with it, traditional edge guarding almost non-existent.

 

[Kyd]

possibly adding to the invincibility frames on the ledge, because that would make edgeguarding easier too.

 

[Magus420]

Taking out autosweetspotting could be pretty simple. Just make it so you also need downward movement to be able to grab an edge like in Melee.

 

[Eten]

I don't think you should take away autosweetspotting. Don't so aggressively pursue a SSBM remake. Edgeguarding technique takes time to develop, and Brawl has developing it, with some characters better at it than others. While there are a limited number of ways to block grabbing that sweetspot across the characters now in brawl, there is a whole lot of other edgeguarding stuff still going on.

This whole "X characteristic of melee would be better than brawl because it was more skilled" talk is really getting on my nerves.

 

[Wind Owl]

But it was...

 

[zxeon]

I don't think you should take away autosweetspotting. Don't so aggressively pursue a SSBM remake. Edgeguarding technique takes time to develop, and Brawl has developing it, with some characters better at it than others. While there are a limited number of ways to block grabbing that sweetspot across the characters now in brawl, there is a whole lot of other edgeguarding stuff still going on.

This whole "X characteristic of melee would be better than brawl because it was more skilled" talk is really getting on my nerves.

Auto sweetspoting is making it way too easy to get back to the stage. You can't even punish some characters like mario because as soon as he starts his Upb if he gets even remotely close to the ledge he teleports onto it while other characters like Wolf hardly ever sweetspot at all. Watch Mario snap on to the ledge after doing his Upb in slow motion in training mode and then tell me if you like what you see.us

 

[Discolicious]

This isn't a brawl vs. melee topic eten get lost lmao

 

[MuBa]

Well if we have higher gravity as the norm of Brawl+ then I believe there shouldn't be any need to alter the range for auto-ledgegrabbing.

 

[Wind Owl]

I disagree; zxeon is right about certain characters being unpunishable with it. How can you argue against a mechanic that was designed solely to make the game easier?

 

[MuBa]

Well we can always ban ledge-stalling if that's what you're worried about.

 

[Minato]

I personally don't like the auto ledge grabbing, but I'd like it if characters can still grab ledges backwards. That was actually a nice addition in Brawl.

 

[B.W.]

No. Banning stuff = bad. Unless absolutely necessary.

But I believe they're saying that it's way too easy to grab onto the ledge.. Which is true. This auto ledge grab makes recovery much too easy.

The range in which the ledge should be grabbed needs a tweak This would make it so that edge guarding is useful. Doing so would also help a lot of those characters that lack good kill moves.

 

[Eggm]

Auto sweet spot sucks. People missing their sweet spot getting hit and teching was one of the most exciting things in melee. not to mention having it in removes tons of depth from the edge guarding game.

Ccing/Dding/letting go of the edge faster/improved hit stun code is all thats really left to be done IMO.

 

[MuBa]

I agree with what Eggm has to say with what really needs to be tweaked.

 

[Eggm]

Yeah honestly if we have Wding/L-canceling/the things I just mentioned (s-caneling optional doesn't really matter to me) We need a good month or so to test before deciding more/less. The only other thing that could really be decided and tested after about a month would be the obscene floatyness that every character has.

 

[B.W.]

Crouch cancel might be a bit of a problem since we'd need a code that says something along the lines of "reduce knockback for this action" which I'm not sure of Brawl would have one of those. It's one of those things that might require data to still be in there, but not working.

Unless you mean crouching so you can do smash attacks out of dashing. That may not be too big a problem.

Though I don't know how these things work, this is just me guessing here.

 

[Eten]

Auto sweetspoting is making it way too easy to get back to the stage. You can't even punish some characters like mario because as soon as he starts his Upb if he gets even remotely close to the ledge he teleports onto it while other characters like Wolf hardly ever sweetspot at all. Watch Mario snap on to the ledge after doing his Upb in slow motion in training mode and then tell me if you like what you see.us

Right so you just don't like how it helps out one character over the other. You know I'd rather have Sheik play her amazing off the stage edgeguard game and gimp people than to see Ike noob #6341 Dtilt spike spam edgeguard. Or fair you now that you're forced to come in from above.

FACT: There are characters that are almost designed for off-the stage edgeguarding that wouldn't work w/o that autosweetspot in place. It's nice that these players feel rewarded, instead of feeling like they're playing needlessly risky.

FACT: If every Joe just gets to spam that move that reaches beyond the ledge you just made it EASIER to edgeguard(oohk hey that sounds the same as being more noob friendly argument!)

FACT: Despite the large range on the autosweetspot that you have to account for, there are still numerous up-B recovery moves that can be invincibility edgehogged with good timing.

End conclusion: go have your fun now that you don't feel jealous about Mario making it while Wolf does not, but please, the one-directional thinking that "more like melee" HAS to equal "more skilled than brawl" is just flawed.

 

[kupo15]

Tbh, there really isnt too much "risk" edgeguarding in this game due to the floatiness. I don't think we are trying to "make it like melee" because I think thats impossible. The physics engines are way different, the moves are programmed much different. I think instead what we are trying to make is 64 with melee features.

All in all, I think brawl+ will feel like 64 with melee features. We are adopting the 64 hitstun which is a major part of the game, and we are tweaking things to keep melee features like the ledge. We should keep reverse grabbing but get rid of auto sweet spotting. We are keeping l cancel but making it auto l cancel which is a brawl thing.

So its not like we are making it "more like melee" just because we are including melee features. We are making it more competitive by putting back in the things taken out to make it more of a party game. I dont think it will be possible to bring back the same melee feel....ever.

 

[MBlaze]

I oppose the idea of taking out auto-sweetspotting because the ledges in this game suck enough as it is. (FD, Lylat for example) As a Mario user I have to say, I get edge-hogged normally and auto-sweetspot doesn't help me much.

I also oppose auto-l cancel, I kinda find that dumb as hell.... Snake and D3 would be broken as hell without that extra effort. At least if they screw up you have a chance to get at them but yeah.., auto l cancel... way too easy.

 

[leafgreen386]

Really... whether you have a manual or an auto l-cancel doesn't matter. It will still have the same end result. Either way, DDD and snake will be great.

Anyway, I just came up with possibly the single most efficient, effective, and easiest way to get what we want with hitstun. When I said I realized the blindingly obvious earlier, that was only the tip of the iceberg. This is truly ridiculous how simple it is.

Anyway, I'm sure you're all aware that the main things that influence hitstun are the attack being used, the character the attack is used against, that character's percent, and how decayed the move being used is. Well, when hitstun was first brought up, everyone thought we could modify the hitstun of the attack being used, and that would be our fix. Well, that's not exactly easy to do, and would probably take up tremendous amounts of code. So lately we've been talking about the tumble animation, and how we might be able to use that to employ artificial hitstun.

The thing is... why settle for artificial hitstun, though, when we can get the real deal? Coupled with the anti-aerial/AD while in hitstun code, we can do that. It would be as simple as having the game treat you as if you were at some ridiculous percent whenever it does hitstun calculations. So let's say you're at 0%, and you get hit by pika's utilt. The game would treat the hitstun as if you were at 400% or something, while giving you the same knockback you would normally receive had you got hit at 0%. This solves so many problems. It would take up fairly little code, while solving the problem of different attacks having different hitstuns, as messing with the tumble animation would've left every attack in the game with basically the same hitstun. Also, since this doesn't interfere with knockback any, percent will still play a very important role in comboing. Another good thing about this code is that it would be easily modifiable, and we wouldn't need to be constantly bugging PW about it.

So yeah... Comments? Criticisms? Cries of joy? We need to reach a consensus on how we're going to solve this hitstun problem.

 

[Kyd]

The thing is... why settle for artificial hitstun, though, when we can get the real deal? Coupled with the anti-aerial/AD while in hitstun code, we can do that. It would be as simple as having the game treat you as if you were at some ridiculous percent whenever it does hitstun calculations. So let's say you're at 0%, and you get hit by pika's utilt. The game would treat the hitstun as if you were at 400% or something, while giving you the same knockback you would normally receive had you got hit at 0%. This solves so many problems. It would take up fairly little code, while solving the problem of different attacks having different hitstuns, as messing with the tumble animation would've left every attack in the game with basically the same hitstun. Also, since this doesn't interfere with knockback any, percent will still play a very important role in comboing. Another good thing about this code is that it would be easily modifiable, and we wouldn't need to be constantly bugging PW about it.

yeah then everyone in the game has 0-death combos. Its a nice thought but not exactly developed very well, adding tumble would be a great way of doing it, but having say the 400% tumble at 0 is just stupid due to the fact that you would never be able to recover from a combo after the first hit until you are dead and in invincibility frames from the recovery.

timble does need ot be added to make combos possible, just not to the extreme of first hit = kill combo. Otherwise ur idea is great.

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, 400% was an example. After messing around with it we'd probably use something lower. The game does need epic large hitstun, though, just due to the way people fly from attacks. Like kupo was saying... we need near-64 level hitstun. Just maybe not quite to that extreme. Also, with DI, a lot of combos should still be escapable. We should probably start with about 200% or so, and then work up or down from there. Also, this value would remain unchanged no matter what percent you were actually at, so it would become harder and harder to follow up as the foe's damage increased, since they're flying further but aren't staying stunned longer.

 

[Cemetery]

How come my L cancelling code doesnt work? it freezes the game.

 

[Imainlowtier]

I dunno.
Anyway to put Gecko OS in a channel on when you start up the Wii?

 

[Cemetery]

Yeah I used it in the Homebrew.