Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[Yingyay]

Ignore.....wait no.

So whenz the next nightly being set to be released? I miss the thrill of beta testing new attack properties.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ignore.....wait no.

So whenz the next nightly being set to be released? I miss the thrill of beta testing new attack properties.

We are going to a weekly or bi-weekly nightly build release. People complained there were too many sets with such small differences for people to be testing.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Yeah, u r right, Falcon combos like crazy. Ex: D-throw, Nair, Nair, Up-air, up-air, KNEE!!!

or you can just di the throw. falcon should be able to combo well since he gets combo'd well.

 

[Arkaether]

I can't really say that I seriously want a Jiggs utilt buff, considering that it'd lead into ezmode rest combos. It just really bugs me that it has such miserable range. Kind of like an OCD thing. Especially since you've got Kirby and Fox with similar utilts and massive range.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

i wouldn't mind hitbox modifications to snake's ftilt+utilt..can't really think of other moves with invisible hitboxes

 

[Jimbo_G]

i wouldn't mind hitbox modifications to snake's ftilt+utilt..can't really think of other moves with invisible hitboxes

If you guys did that I would love you FOREVER! O__o

(Not that I don't already. XD)

 

[Yingyay]

Moves with invisible hitboxes would be the last few animations in Lucario's fsmash and usmash.
Lucas usmash has a few hits left over when the big energy thing leaves. Its minor but still there and is still annoying when you try to punish something but get hit anyway >_>

 

[Plum]

i wouldn't mind hitbox modifications to snake's ftilt+utilt..can't really think of other moves with invisible hitboxes

Please don't

Honestly the hitbox mod code scares me. The power it gives the coders just feels wrong to me. Please keep it as an absolute last measure if NOTHING else works. I think changing the actual hitboxes is just going too far, and in the case of Snake's tilts it just isn't needed because they aren't broken. Stupid good, but not broken.

(And when you think about it, the hitboxes actually do make sense. He extends his limbs far out, but it just so quick that it looks like he barely moves. Utilt for example has a hitbox that arcs in front of him the exact length of his leg. He just swings his leg upwards so fast that it looks like he magically kicks his leg straight up.)

 

[camelot]

stuff

Go in training mode, 1/4 speed. His leg definitely does not go that far with utilt.

Try with ftilt too (both hits). The range is ridiculous. His utilt and ftilt have the range of a sword, at least.

Dtilt is fine, though

 

[GHNeko]

tbh, the first hit of ftilt is fine.

Utilt and Ftilt are iffy. I dont play enough B+ Snakes to care though.

 

[goodoldganon]

I'm against any adjustments to Snakes tilts. I haven't been given a single reason why he'd need them, besides whines of their great range. Let's look at some of the reasons I'd get behind some of hitbox size adjustments:

Smaller MK Tornado? Great, makes matches less one-sided at times and we can remove the tornado nerfs. Smaller U-air on MK? Could solve planking! Smaller reverse knee? Great, it's back to full power! A little bigger of a sweetspot on Zelda's Toes? Sure, we can probably get rid of the campy up-b and give her something good. It's only out for 1 frame for God's sake.

But Snake tilts? They have never been proven to be broken, especially in the Brawl+ setting. So what if they are some of Snake's best moves? Don't reinvent characters that don't need to be changed. I'd argue Snake isn't top 5 material anymore. This is an example of going to far because something is annoying. I hate Falco's lasers, but you don't see my whining to nerf them, it's something I deal with.

So I implore players to man up and stop whining. If you don't like the way Snake fights then don't play him. He is a great character in Brawl+, but he is very manageable now a days. This isn't vBrawl guys, so don't let past experiences hurt Snake in B+. I repeat stop whining and find ways to beat the strategy. We have caved before to cries of QQ and nerf, but soon we won't listen cause we'll need a metagame. So start to man up against annoying things now.

 

[GHNeko]

ITT: GoG ***** people.

tbh, now that I look at it, Snake's tilt really arnt a big deal. Hell, his Utilt was slightly nerfed due to grav changes.

I 3 stocked a snake with mario the other day, though it was just wifi. But still. I was able to live up to like 160% because I'm pro at utilt dodging. ;D

 

[Deleted member]

some things i noticed with this latest code set:

mashing luigi's down-b on the ground makes him go crazy high, i'm not sure if that's intended.

Fox can laser while short-hopping forward, but he can't go anywhere doing ledge-hop lasers.

Link's up-b needs more forward momentum.

Sheik's F-air is ridiculous.

Falcon's down-b does not give him his jump back - why?

 

[metaXzero]

Personally, I just wish the range on the U-tilt would just make sense, but yeah he's not broken in B+ (no matter how much I hate that stupid range).

 

[GHNeko]

Falcon's down-b does not give him his jump back - why?

Because it has no utility in air. Ganon's does.

 

[Rudra]

His tilts are one of the things that define his character. Its amazing how much of a stir this hitbox size mod can cause. =/

 

[Deleted member]

Wrong. On stages like norfair or brinstar, falcon would be able to down-b into the lava, get knocked in the air, and jump to recover. I've seen Silent spectre do it in melee.

Besides, it's useful as a recovery move regardless. It was incredibly useful in melee, im not sure why we're partial here.

 

[GHNeko]

His tilts are one of the things that define his character. Its amazing how much of a stir this hitbox size mod can cause. =/

Which is why we wanted to keep it secret. rofl.

Wrong. On stages like norfair or brinstar, falcon would be able to down-b into the lava, get knocked in the air, and jump to recover. I've seen Silent spectre do it in melee.

Besides, it's useful as a recovery move regardless. It was incredibly useful in melee, im not sure why we're partial here.

And that's stage specifc. It has no UNIVERSAL utility. On Norfair, I could do something into the lava to recover. On pictochat, I up B into the spikes to get sent into the stage, and I tech the spikes to recover.

Ganon's Down B has universal utility in air, no matter the stage. Falcon's doesnt.

 

[XSilvenX]

Please don't

Honestly the hitbox mod code scares me. The power it gives the coders just feels wrong to me. Please keep it as an absolute last measure if NOTHING else works. I think changing the actual hitboxes is just going too far, and in the case of Snake's tilts it just isn't needed because they aren't broken. Stupid good, but not broken.

(And when you think about it, the hitboxes actually do make sense. He extends his limbs far out, but it just so quick that it looks like he barely moves. Utilt for example has a hitbox that arcs in front of him the exact length of his leg. He just swings his leg upwards so fast that it looks like he magically kicks his leg straight up.)

Agreed. People are already used to the hitboxes matching the character animations and for the most part they do with exception to a few characters. You guys are getting way too ahead of yourselves for people that are supposedly low on coders. Now you wanna jump to modifying hitboxes..?

*sigh*

With this mindset you guys might as well redesign the whole game... Brawl+ will turn into a huge monstrosity if people start changing EVERY little thing. Wasn't it first about making Brawl more fun and fixing OBVIOUS character flaws and OBVIOUS imbalances? Why are we trying to perfect the tiniest little minute details? This is not gonna lead to a more balanced game imo. You guys just have to realize and accept that some characters are better than others. Aim for making each character playable and that's it, don't worry about it's relationship with other characters because then you guys will start using that as reason to unnecessarily buff things that you shouldn't really be buffing. It's just gonna turn into an endless cycle of buffs and debuffs if you guys don't have your heads on straight.

 

[Deleted member]

Which is why we wanted to keep it secret. rofl.



And that's stage specifc. It has no UNIVERSAL utility. On Norfair, I could do something into the lava to recover. On pictochat, I up B into the spikes to get sent into the stage, and I tech the spikes to recover.

Ganon's Down B has universal utility in air, no matter the stage. Falcon's doesnt.

Both Falcon's and Ganon's Down-b had "universal utility" in melee. The tweakers of brawl+ have taken this utility which was denied a vBrawl existence and given it only to Ganon, where both could use it effectively. It's useful when recovering high up and away..why are you arguing that falcon's is useless

 

[XSilvenX]

Because it has no utility in air. Ganon's does.

They both should have it. You're basically saying since Ganon's spikes and Falcon's doesn't he shouldn't get it? I don't really see it being that big of a deal actually and it will help him recover from high trajectories with a lot more confidence. Your reasoning for giving it to Ganon and not Falcon doesn't really make sense either. Are you implying that the only usefulness for Ganon to downb > 2nd jump is to run off and spike someone and recover? If that's what you're implying then I have to say you're way off on this one. It's mainly used for a more versatile recovery when knocked at high trajectories but I can see why it's not necessarily useful for Falcon. In practicality it will probably hurt his recovery more than help it since downb goes down a lot faster than dorf's but I think he should still have it for mixup potential when recovering. Is it necessary though? Not really... but I still think it should be in.

 

[Deleted member]

Exactly. Plus, why can't I use down-b as an attack offstage? I should be able to, regardless if it spikes or not. Let's not place too much importance on the fact that ganon's down-b spikes and falcon's doesn't. That's biased.

 

[Sudai]

I should be able to, regardless if it spikes or not.

MK should be able to attack with his down-b off stage! Lets make it so he doesn't go into fall special after it!

DK should be able to use his down-b off stage(period)! Lets give him a mid-air ground-pound!

Zelda/Shiek should be able to use their down-b off stage as an attack! Wait..what?



I actually think Falcon's down-b should give him his double jump back if Ganon's does, but wtf man. At least use valid reasoning.

 

[XSilvenX]

MK should be able to attack with his down-b off stage! Lets make it so he doesn't go into fall special after it!

DK should be able to use his down-b off stage(period)! Lets give him a mid-air ground-pound!

Zelda/Shiek should be able to use their down-b off stage as an attack! Wait..what?



I actually think Falcon's down-b should give him his double jump back if Ganon's does, but wtf man. At least use valid reasoning.

He's obviously referring to Falcon kick and not down-b in general....

 

[Sudai]

I know, but I'm just pointing out that not all moves are useful in the situations we want them to be. The project isn't about making everything useful. Characters are going to have moves that are useless in certain situations. Hell, characters are probably going to have ****ed near useless moves. It happens.

 

[XSilvenX]

I understand that and I also try to convey the same thing. I'm actually glad you mention that because a lot of the unnecessary buffs come from trying to make a situational move useful in more than the situations intended..won't get into specifics though but yeah...you get my point. Anyway I'm done for tonight.

 

[goodoldganon]

Another reason you guys are forgetting is diversity. This wouldn't even be a discussion if Ganon wasn't a Falcon clone. Ganondorf should be able to combo from an over-b cause Falcon can. They are different characters with different strengths, weaknesses, tricks, tools, and other skills. It may be a lame excuse but it holds water.

 

[camelot]

I have a code for an Olimar-hop on Ivy's up-b... try this line in the frame speed code. 5x speed after frame 26 on aerial up-b (not the grounded one)

1F1A81D8 40A00000

Of course, it doesn't work *exactly* like Olimar's, but it still gives him that "extra inch" to recover. Maybe you should speed it up more, I don't know, but this seems ok.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

falcon can offstage kick w/o the infinite jump recovery. its that falcon's recovery sucks because even with the momentum fix his up b goes more up than it does forward.
also, if you try to sweetspot the stage, falcon's grab thingy kinda stops at one point and he goes into this weird aerial roll and anyone can just speedhug the edge and its a stock x)

 

[shanus]

I too don't want to adjust hitbox sizes unless absolutely necessary. The only one I modified was shrinking falcon's reverse knee.

 

[shanus]

I have a code for an Olimar-hop on Ivy's up-b... try this line in the frame speed code. 5x speed after frame 26 on aerial up-b (not the grounded one)

1F1A81D8 40A00000

Of course, it doesn't work *exactly* like Olimar's, but it still gives him that "extra inch" to recover. Maybe you should speed it up more, I don't know, but this seems ok.

Thanks camelot, I'll give it a whirl

 

[Yingyay]

There are a few hitboxes that I think are kinda too big.

Ike's sideB: If someones under your foot or above your head you'll go into the swing. Its kinda weird and
Captain's sideB: same as above.

Just a few things I noticed, that may be becaue of a oversized hitbox

 

[Blank Mauser]

Snakes tilts are obviously oversized, but I wouldn't want them changed...at all. <_<;

 

[DarkDragoon]

There are a few hitboxes that I think are kinda too big.

Ike's sideB: If someones under your foot or above your head you'll go into the swing. Its kinda weird and
Captain's sideB: same as above.

Just a few things I noticed, that may be becaue of a oversized hitbox

>_> There are always going to be weird hitboxes, and these are just examples of weird ones people can utilize to gimp these characters.

Like Shanus said, there is no reason to change anything with this code unless it is absolutely necessary to fix something, like the reverse knee.

Snakes tilts have been around for a while now, and Snake isn't even that GOOD anymore. I mean jeez, throw the poor man off the stage and hes a goner. *whistles..........PLOP!*

So yea, lets just stop talking about hitbox mods, unless they refer to making new characters.
-DD

 

[Yingyay]

Im just pointing out something that I found weird.
Its not like its something gamebreaking. Imagine trying to recover with Ike and all of a sudden someone jumps above your head, not even touching you and you go into that swing. Its kinda silly.

 

[SketchHurricane]

Im just pointing out something that I found weird.
Its not like its something gamebreaking. Imagine trying to recover with Ike and all of a sudden someone jumps above your head, not even touching you and you go into that swing. Its kinda silly.

That happened in vBrawl if I'm not mistaken. Unless the gap is huge, it's not a glitch.

However, it is pretty ghey. It could stand to be fixed.

Having said that, you know what would be beast for Ike? If his sideB was sped up post hit so he could combo off of it. In return, if we could keep it at it's original speed on block, so that it's still massively punishable.

 

[Revven]

Umm... we fixed that Ike Side B **** awhile ago.

You guys have to keep up...

 

[kupo15]

Sorry I haven't been here lately. Summer is getting me kinda busy and I haven't even unpacked my wii to test anything which is why I haven't released a new set. Even though I can edit without testing, the Conditional action modifier seems to hate me because I sometimes get insane momentum or negative momentum with some people if I change it which is why I haven't released an untested one. I really wish I knew why editing that code is so tempermental. Its what is causing the ROB freezes because I forgot ROB doesn't have up b landing lags.

If anyone notices anything really wrong with my set, please pm me because I won't be able to search through these pages to find your concerns

 

[Master Knight DH]

I DL'd B+ recently, and I gotta say so far I love it.

I typed up practically an essay on comments I had, but then I accidentally deleted it, so here's a short summary.

1) consider giving the multiple tethers (already on Ivy) to Olimar? they have very similar recoveries
2) wtf why does Ganon have the down-B -> DJ glitch from Melee? It seems like it's purely there for nostalgia purposes, make his aerial movement or up-B better if you want him to recover better
3) The decreased electric hitstun, although it makes "competitive" sense, detracts from the epic-ness of landing that knee or thunder-stomp. Just a comment.
4) Is it possible to get rid of the cars on Port Town? That might make it a more viable CP stage
5) For frozen Spear Pillar, IMO it'd be a "more-neutral" stage if it was frozen with the middle blown up (less bouncing-around in the tunnel)

I've only had Brawl+ for a week, but so far it's been excellent. Keep up the good work!

I can't answer these questions. I'm just quoting because the only answers I basically got was "answered on AiB", when All Is Brawl doesn't seem to have a Brawl+ topic.

Edit: Oh, never mind. I found out Brawl+ has a sub-forum......in the general forum rather than the competititve forum.

1. Dont quote me, as I can be wrong, but because Ganon's Aerial wiz kick has more utility in air (Ie it spikes in air), I'd be used more than falcon's (as his kick is worthless in mid air) so to compensate for how fast ganon falls during the kick and you're using it more overall in air, he gets his double jump back.

2. Because Olimar can DI sooner then Ivy, and his up B hop is greater and keeps horizontal momentum. Olimar's up B just > Ivy's really.

4. And that's nothing more than a personal preference. Wanna know what's more epic than hitting with a knee? Killing with it.

By removing the "epic-ness', the moves kill better and more often because they're harder to DI, its a buff at the cost of asthetics

(#3 is about the apparent bias of PSI Thunder. That's why it's gone from the quote.)

 

[SlashTalon]

Vid please? I want some good lol's at bad DI.

Slash who were you playing against? It might have been some accidental European DI [the exact WRONG DI you should be inputting which results in a hilariously quick death]

iz dat sum DI i semll rite thur????/

Yes sometimes it was bad DI (trying to avoid getting hit, and then it does it hits) but sometimes its like a smash attack its ridiculous. Go try it your self I'll get vids, we play with a Lucas regularly.

I think its just a combination of the hitstun, gravity, and physics