Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[_clinton]

I agree on that actually...or at least you should flesh it out if you don't so Ivysaur isn't the only one with issues or something...

On another note I'm thinking of a bunch of special effects that would be cool...I wonder if this can happen

Bowser's Dsmash has Ice wind effect like Giga Bowser
Jigglypuff has the flower back for rest...can I ask why it was taken out anyway?
Samus' arm gun has a bomb effect for it...
Ness' bat has the "smash" effect for the tip...so that sounds cool
How about Wario having some darkness based attacks?
Olimar's pikmin throw side special...would it be broken with flowers?
Speaking of Jigglypuff again...what about a flower effect on some other moves? Like Dthrow or Rollout?
Would giving more than DK a ground based attack be a bad thing? Would something like Ike's Dair be bad? Or even the thing done in bBrawl with Ganondorf's wizard foot...
Would giving Luigi a lightning based attack for his Fsmash be bad? He used one in Mario&Luigi:SSS

I guess that is enough for now...

 

[timothyung]

I think they won't edit the effect of unedited moves in order to save line space.
Also Ness' bat already pings at the tip.

 

[Kuga]

WOW,i totally agree about Luigi Lightning Fsmash.

 

[[TSON]]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C_nK9RWLi4

What is this and why does it exist in Brawl+

>_<

 

[shanus]

Looking into Ness again...

After getting freak gimped by a fly guy on YI and a moving platform that came out while I was recovering on Frigate today I sort of want unlimited PKT1 back...plus I just loved it for more reasons other than preventing you from having ****ing dumb gimps...god...Ness is still open to being largely gimped anyway because the only thing protected is his top area...

I still see the Fsmash as suck...the thing doesn't kill soon enough because of its speed/power rate...the range really isn't a large issue IMO...

I kind of want a bit more range on Fair if the short hop is going to be lower...the short hop Fair doesn't even cover the lower platforms that well on BF right now...well the foe gets hit by 2% of the 14%...but still...

As for Ness' other airs...are there any thoughts on making certain hit boxes stay out longer? Nair and Dair come to mind with me...Nair is suppose to be a GTFO me move...Dair is suppose to punish defense moves/kill at 0%...and making it faster has screwed with the timing on certain things IMO (You use to be able to hit people who were below a platform with it very well...plus the times where it isn't out make it different for dealing with certain defense moves than what it once had)

I still want Bthrow to be fixed from when it was broke coming to Brawl+...
Utilt still doesn't have any range...nor does Ness have anything for real kill combos other than Dash attack, Dair, and PKT in some ways...and one of those is busted because it is too slow at recovering now...

Now I'm sure Lucas' Dthrow in vBrawl was better at killing than his new Uthrow buff as well...but I'm still going on...the Dthrow buff is a god sent because of him losing its low % use in vBrawl and now it is just better...have you thought about lowering Ness' Uthrow knockback to make it more like Melee's? Can I ask what the stats for base knockback and growth are on Ness' Dthrow?

I have some other things (like has anyone noticed the freezing issues on more than just Mario?) but for now...

Nair has insane priority. Not only that, it has multiple forms of utility. The strong hit largely serves as a gtfo, and the weak hit can link into uair, utilt, fair and in some cases, a grab. It also lasts forever.

Dair lasts for god knows how long, comes out significantly faster, and a has a ******** *nipple spike* trajectory on the very delayed sourspot. The speed up on the move I believe doesn't happen till the hitbox, so it shouldn't be effecting any durations that I know of, unless someone messed up.

Also, multiple true combos exist into kills, dair to uair (has ******** quantities of hitstun, even with the best DI its trivial to pursue this), fair to uair if the opponent fails to SDI out, dthrow uair or nair (depending on DI, the lower BKB on dthrow makes this possible), FF fair (non last hit) to grab bthrow, etc.

I also don't know what you mean by Backthrow being broken and needs fixing since vB. It's one of the earliest killing throws in the game, has a trajectory of 140 degrees (minimizing the direction a player needs to DI it, meaniing its strong as hell as it makes players travel almost maximum distance and they still die very early)


Overall yeah, I don't get your post at all because it just seems, well, wrong.

 

[timothyung]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C_nK9RWLi4

What is this and why does it exist in Brawl+

>_<

THIS IS PEACH'S METAGAME. A PEACH MAIN MUST BE LUCKY TO TRULY MAIN PEACH. RANDOMLY PULLING OUT A BOB-BOMB IS NOT BROKEN. RANDOMNESS IS COMPETITIVE SO IT SHOULD EXIST IN BRAWL+.

OK really when should we bring back this topic again?

 

[Hyrus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C_nK9RWLi4

Why does this exist in Brawl+

Because the threat of pissing off numerous, emotional Peach mains was more intimidating than listening to a few intelligent posters that used reason and examples. True story.

 

[Alphatron]

_Clinton is right about the bthrow Shanus. In vbrawl, only Bowser and DK had to be at about 150% to be killed. Now, it seems like more characters can survive around this area and that's without DI.

Also, the last time that Peach topic was brought up, ppl wanted to remove the stitchface turnip too.

 

[SketchHurricane]

THIS IS PEACH'S METAGAME. A PEACH MAIN MUST BE LUCKY TO TRULY MAIN PEACH. RANDOMLY PULLING OUT A BOB-BOMB IS NOT BROKEN. RANDOMNESS IS COMPETITIVE SO IT SHOULD EXIST IN BRAWL+.

Ok, that was worded rather poorly, so allow me to correct this:

This is part of Peach's Metagame. A Peach main must play with complete awareness of their projectile situation at all times to truly main peach. This means accounting for and reacting to the rare bob-omb pull. Accounting for and reacting to random occurrences is a facet of skill in the Smash series that should not be completely eliminated from Brawl+.

At least, that's what I imagine you meant to say. The bob-omb is probably the only random occurrence in Brawl that can actually be controlled once it's revealed, unlinke Gordo, misfires, and the 9.

 

[timothyung]

I used CAPS LOCK.
That means it's sarcasm >.>
Though we shouldn't talk about this now...just look at the topic before
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237157

 

[Swordplay]

EDIT:

I was ninja'd

Double Edit:

Deleted........... Cursed randomness discussion.

 

[Alphatron]

Don't forget about Mr. Saturn.

Hey, was anything done with Zelda's dair in the past?

 

[Hyrus]

-Deleted for derailing off topic.-

 

[timothyung]

Guys, read the thread on randomness before talking about this. Most points have been said in that thread. We don't need to repeat the arguments, right?

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Zelda's Dair has not been touched unless you count that April Fool's joke.

 

[camelot]

Zelda's Dair has not been touched unless you count that April Fool's joke.

Actually, an ice spike was tried for Zelda's d-air a long time ago. It was too strong.

 

[shanus]

Actually, an ice spike was tried for Zelda's d-air a long time ago. It was too strong.

That was part of the april fools joke lol

 

[RyokoYaksa]

I thought that *was* the April Fool's joke, sadly.

At any rate, her Dair works fine as-is.

 

[camelot]

That was part of the april fools joke lol

Oh.

Hey, I have a fix for Samus' pummel on Bowser. Someone before said that it only seemed like it was bugged, because the pummel did so little damage (less than 1% even). They are wrong, the pummel does 1% damage per hit, there's an "error" with Bowser's "getting pummeled" animation that makes him not get hit by it. A size modifier fixes it.

Use these lines (Samus' pummel 1.25x size):
03016400 0005003A
01640000 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

There's a similar problem with Link/Toon Link's d-throw on Jigglypuff, the first hit doesn't connect, making it do 4% instead of 7%.

 

[Roxas215]

Ok so i heard yall are planning on adjusting peach's throws. I SWEAR IF YOU MESS UP PEACH!!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with peach's throws. I was arguing with ryoko last night. He said the only way he could land peach's throws is through pivot grabs. If that's true then you are playing peach horribly wrong.

Peach is perfect. Only thing she would benefit from right now is a faster ff speed. Only thing im requesting is that her fsmash becomes a pattern and isn't random. But none of these are "needed" Peach could go gold right now and be perfectly fine. DO NOT **** UP PEACH!

 

[timothyung]

Oh.

Hey, I have a fix for Samus' pummel on Bowser. Someone before said that it only seemed like it was bugged, because the pummel did so little damage (less than 1% even). They are wrong, the pummel does 1% damage per hit, there's an "error" with Bowser's "getting pummeled" animation that makes him not get hit by it. A size modifier fixes it.

Use these lines (Samus' pummel 1.25x size):
03016400 0005003A
01640000 00500000
FFFFFFFF 3FA00000

There's a similar problem with Link/Toon Link's d-throw on Jigglypuff, the first hit doesn't connect, making it do 4% instead of 7%.

See? I said a size increase can fix it

 

[DrCrawford]

i noticed a glitch with link last night getting stuck on the right side of pokemon stadium 1 several times during a match. has this happened to anyone else?

 

[FrozenHobo]

i've noticed when playing on lylat cruise that i'll randomly teleport to the right edge of the stage.might wanna check that out....

 

[PKNintendo]

Ok so i heard yall are planning on adjusting peach's throws. I SWEAR IF YOU MESS UP PEACH!!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with peach's throws. I was arguing with ryoko last night. He said the only way he could land peach's throws is through pivot grabs. If that's true then you are playing peach horribly wrong.

Peach is perfect. Only thing she would benefit from right now is a faster ff speed. Only thing im requesting is that her fsmash becomes a pattern and isn't random. But none of these are "needed" Peach could go gold right now and be perfectly fine. DO NOT **** UP PEACH!

Now you know how it feels like.

*clears throat*

I notion that we nerf Peach's throws. And her randomness too.

Spoiler

kidding lol

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Throws aren't the same thing as the grabs that you need to connect to execute the throws.

Against good people or better characters with better grab ranges than her, a grab is more of a luxury than it is a staple for her. Its range is poor and there's no denying that. You can do similar damage output with ftilt/dtilt setups which have much more reach, or play defensively with the pivot grab which reaches about 3x farther than her standing/running grab.

You sound awfully aggressive in your pro-Peach fervor but you probably forget that other people play Peach on different levels than you.

 

[shanus]

Ok so i heard yall are planning on adjusting peach's throws. I SWEAR IF YOU MESS UP PEACH!!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with peach's throws. I was arguing with ryoko last night. He said the only way he could land peach's throws is through pivot grabs. If that's true then you are playing peach horribly wrong.

Peach is perfect. Only thing she would benefit from right now is a faster ff speed. Only thing im requesting is that her fsmash becomes a pattern and isn't random. But none of these are "needed" Peach could go gold right now and be perfectly fine. DO NOT **** UP PEACH!

I didn't know we were altering peach's throws.


News to me.


...

 

[Roxas215]

Now you know how it feels like.

*clears throat*

I notion that we nerf Peach's throws. And her randomness too.

Spoiler

kidding lol

Lol. I mean i have no problem taking out her randomness if this means ALL RANDOMNESS is taking out. I love how people ***** when i get a bomb with peach with ddd gets 5 GORDOS A MATCH! Im lucky to get one bomb every 5 matches and i pluck 10x more then ddd throws waddle doos.

If they take out gordos,bombs,lv 9's etc i would perfectly fine with that. Just don't pick on peach randomness and leave everything else in

And even if they did take out all the randomness they better sure as hell leave in peach's stitch face!


But anyway lol i guess u right i now know how the ness mains are feeling! LEAVE OUR CHARS ALONE!

 

[timothyung]

Ok so i heard yall are planning on adjusting peach's throws. I SWEAR IF YOU MESS UP PEACH!!!!!!

There is nothing wrong with peach's throws. I was arguing with ryoko last night. He said the only way he could land peach's throws is through pivot grabs. If that's true then you are playing peach horribly wrong.

Peach is perfect. Only thing she would benefit from right now is a faster ff speed. Only thing im requesting is that her fsmash becomes a pattern and isn't random. But none of these are "needed" Peach could go gold right now and be perfectly fine. DO NOT **** UP PEACH!

If her throws are going to be adjusted, test them before saying anything. Now you're not even letting the changes to be made. Plus after the change her throws might be better, and doesn't necessary mess up Peach. If the changes are made, you tested them thoroughly, and don't like them, come back and complain, and provide examples and reasons why you don't like the changes. Now you are complaining without even knowing what the changes are. BTW did I mention that the rumor might not be true?

 

[Roxas215]

Throws aren't the same thing as the grabs that you need to connect to execute the throws.

Against good people or better characters with better grab ranges than her, a grab is more of a luxury than it is a staple for her. Its range is poor and there's no denying that. You can do similar damage output with ftilt/dtilt setups which have much more reach, or play defensively with the pivot grab which reaches about 3x farther than her standing/running grab.

You sound awfully aggressive in your pro-Peach fervor but you probably forget that other people play Peach on different levels than you.

Yes thats true. Im very aggressive with peach and your right other people may not play peach the same way i do. I just don't want peach to be overbuffed"coughzeldacough" I don't want people to automatically go "cheap" as soon as they see peach on the select screen like they do on some other chars. Peach is perfectly fine the way she is now.


However her throws being a luxury are just that. Peach isn't like ddd. She don't revolve around her throws. They simply compliment her amazing aerial game and above average ground game thanks to hitstun(and might i add they **** ffers) Making her grabs even better is just making the char easier to play.

 

[VietGeek]

Lol. I mean i have no problem taking out her randomness if this means ALL RANDOMNESS is taking out.

When we had the discussion, which suggested to take all of that out (I do not recall a single post singling out Peach and only Peach. Really most of the post used Peach as an example because she has the most random elements in sheer number), this wasn't your stand on the matter.

I guess your thoughts have changed since then?

Quick! Someone make a new thread! =D

 

[PKNintendo]

^^^
Exactly.

I think you jumped the gun Philly Rider. We were never discussing on nerfing Peach's throws.
Anywho... Things are starting to slow down.

What do you suppose we do next?
Any future plans?

 

[Roxas215]

When we had the discussion, which suggested to take all of that out (I do not recall a single post singling out Peach and only Peach. Really most of the post used Peach as an example because she has the most random elements in sheer number), this wasn't your stand on the matter.

I guess your thoughts have changed since then?

Quick! Someone make a new thread! =D

I was under the impression that yall were singling out peach(maybe cause yall used her as a example) But yea im fine with it as long as all of it is taking out and not just peach(leave her stitch face though as u can combo with them. Triple turnip drop with a stitch face is too good) I've lost lots more matches to gordos then i won with bombs.

 

[timothyung]

I was under the impression that yall were singling out peach(maybe cause yall used her as a example) But yea im fine with it as long as all of it is taking out and not just peach(leave her stitch face though) I've lost lots more matches to gordos then i won with bombs.

Why leave her stitch face if we're taking all the randomness out? That doesn't make sense.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Peach as she is *cannot* revolve around her throws because her grab is not good. The quality of a character's throws means very little when they have a tough time getting a grab in. DDD's throws are honestly pretty sucky, but his grab is great allowing him to get a lot of grabs. No one can honestly call his grab/throw game good despite this.

The only thing under consideration was Peach having a "kills at high percent" fthrow, and lower KB on dthrow. I have numbers drawn for them, but it's not entirely my intent to actually put them in play.

 

[Roxas215]

Why leave her stitch face if we're taking all the randomness out? That doesn't make sense.

Because stitch face has been in since melee and no one complained about them then. I dont think people get mad when they get hit with a stitch face(or saturn for that matter). It's the bombs/swords people complain about. Stitch face combos actually works(have in melee,brawl and brawl+)

 

[VietGeek]

Why leave her stitch face if we're taking all the randomness out? That doesn't make sense.

While I don't agree with you, you bring up a good point.

If ALL randomness is taken out, then what will we do with moves that are basically relied on for trip set-ups (Zelda's dtilt, TL's dash attack, etc.), and what will we do with something as variable as Peach's turnip game? If we're gonna blanket remove randomness, we also need a way to compensate such moves without making them OP or UP (is that even a term? Let's go with NU, Smogon-style).

And that people, is the real issue at hand.

I think...

should I leave the last line in? It sounds really cheesy.

Eh, I guess it'll be alright, I mean it's just a message board.

But you know...I have a tendency of ruining moments because of lines like that.

You're right...hmm.

Eh, I'm lazy though, let's leave it.

 

[PKNintendo]

Peach as she is *cannot* revolve around her throws because her grab is not good. The quality of a character's throws means very little when they have a tough time getting a grab in. DDD's throws are honestly pretty sucky, but his grab is great allowing him to get a lot of grabs. No one can honestly call his grab/throw game good despite this.

The only thing under consideration was Peach having a "kills at high percent" fthrow, and lower KB on dthrow. I have numbers drawn for them, but it's not entirely my intent to actually put them in play.

Wait so you want to BUFF her fthrow?

Oh... I am totally fine with that. Her grab isn't nearly up to par. And if you made it kill around nair -ish percent it could be fine.

I see no problems with it.

 

[Roxas215]

I see no problems with it.

Until everyone starts complaining!(how i miss ivy's leaves!)

 

[Plum]

Wouldn't a blanket random removal just target the actual problematic random things?

That would boil down to G&W's Judgement, Peach's Turnip Pull, DDD's Waddle Toss, Luigi's Missfire, and I may be missing something else.

But it wouldn't target tripping moves (at least it shouldn't)

Not saying I support a loss of randomness (it is a part of Smash, and many still completely, perhaps even more competitive games) but that's what it should pertain to if it was to take place (which it shouldn't imo)

 

[timothyung]

Tripping moves: always trip till ~n% and only a certain hitbox trips
After that never trips

Olimar's Pikmin Pluck:
Color changes every n frames.
13 frames Red
13 frames Yellow
13 frames Blue
11 frames Purple
10 frames White
Repeat from red
So the pattern repeats every second.

Peach:
Everything is n% turnip
or
First turnip: weakest
....
last: stitch face
repeat from weakest

Fsmash: First time tennis, second time golf, third time pan. Repeat from tennis

You get what I mean. Randomness can be completely removed without taking away the character's options. And it adds strategy. I'm not saying this will be done soon, or they are the best solutions, the examples are just to prove my statement.