Brawl+ Project Hub: OP updated 4/28 w/expansion pack and why it is necessary

[JCaesar]

B+ Broomers:
• Veril (Leader)
• Yeroc
• 5ive: Yeroc please give 5ive back wbr access!
• GuruKid
• Thunderhorse
• Glick
• VaNz
• Blind
• Lord Karn
• Plum
• VietGeek
• OmegaBlackMage
• Shell
• Bionic Sonic
• Kirk
• Frozen


+?Holy?: I'd like to add Holy as the replacement Rob representative, because he has shown himself willing to have 3-hour IRC discussions with me, and because he really does know his s***.

Did I get kicked out and no one bothered to tell me?

 

[Plum]

It was up on the OP for a little while that you were removed because you said you didn't have the motivation to be working on B+ anymore and would rather be just doing PM things. Something like that.

 

[JCaesar]

I didn't see that. I didn't know the OP was updated so regularly. I still would have appreciated being told personally instead of being a newsbit. Especially since the PM conversation I had with Veril on the subject gave me no indication that he was going to kick me out. In fact, his exact words were, "I don't want to kick you off the team. What would be the point of that?"

I never resigned, I just said that I would understand if he wanted to kick me out.

 

[GuruKid]

Jceez has done more than anyone else here in terms of pushing this game's publicity to tournament players. When EC tournament hosts want to host a B+ event, they go to him for assistance and support. That alone would make him more than suitable for WBR status.

 

[Thunderhorse+]

Technically, he still is WBR, just no longer B+BR.

But I agree with everything you said. He's done a ton for the community as far as spreading awareness and just generally being a legit player. Not to mention he was explicitly told he wouldn't be kicked off the team. I would be more than happy to see him back on the team, but that's a choice he has to make.

Obviously it's up to Veril to make the final call though, not me. It's just a **** shame seeing a valued contributor, player, and friend booted off in the manner that he was.

 

[Veril]

If JCz is actually interested in working on this project that's great and I would add him back in. BUT I haven't seen much to indicate that. Said he would update his Rob thread, make a changelist for Rob (and its so f***ing easy with the tools posted in the OP), and put up an alternate stage list (what I really really wanted him to do and the major reason I wanted him to stay)... none of this happened.

The thing with JCz was up there, essentially waiting for one of you to comment on it. After like a week of seeing that nobody bothered to check or respond (though I did get responses in support of the changes), I got fed up and made the adjustments to the members list. I'm not comfortable making this call without the broom support, and I had really hoped to see PMs in support of or opposed to the shifts I had suggested (one was JCz, the others were Kirk, Holy and Frozen). Guess I shouldn't assume you guys ever check the OP?

PM me on this one. I don't want a speech from any of you, though I'm sure I'll get them. I just want a good approximation of where you stand on this.

 

[JCaesar]

If JCz is actually interested in working on this project that's great and I would add him back in. BUT I haven't seen much to indicate that. Said he would update his Rob thread, make a changelist for Rob (and its so f***ing easy with the tools posted in the OP), and put up an alternate stage list (what I really really wanted him to do and the major reason I wanted him to stay)... none of this happened.

I was going to update the ROB thread after I got the changelist, which you said Blind had probably already made, but I never got around to asking for it since Blind seems to have some kind of grudge against me. I suppose I can just go make it myself with the tools.

Edit: umm, anyone know where I can get the vBrawl ROB pac? :embarrass

As for the stagelist, I was waiting for 7.0.3 to be released, since stages like Summit+ are still being tweaked and I don't see the sense in coming up with a stagelist before the stages are settled. I plan on coming up with 2 lists: one for Brawl+ exclusive tourneys like Hackfest and Beyond the Limit (a bit more liberal), and one for Brawl+ side tourneys like at Pound and Apex (a bit more conservative).

 

[GuruKid]

I'll be more than happy to get the pogey changelists done.

@ J:
Brawl Archive Files

Our recommended stagelist will have to wait until after the set is released; we'll have to play on these re-tweaked stages quite a bit before we can come to any sort of agreement on their recommended standings.

I plan on coming up with 2 lists: one for Brawl+ exclusive tourneys like Hackfest and Beyond the Limit (a bit more liberal), and one for Brawl+ side tourneys like at Pound and Apex (a bit more conservative).

Good idea.

 

[goodoldganon]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=230551

For the super lazy you can get all the pac files for characters here. Of course this download doesn't come with just the characters but their textures as well

 

[Veril]

I was going to update the ROB thread after I got the changelist, which you said Blind had probably already made, but I never got around to asking for it since Blind seems to have some kind of grudge against me. I suppose I can just go make it myself with the tools.

Edit: umm, anyone know where I can get the vBrawl ROB pac? :embarrass

As for the stagelist, I was waiting for 7.0.3 to be released, since stages like Summit+ are still being tweaked and I don't see the sense in coming up with a stagelist before the stages are settled. I plan on coming up with 2 lists: one for Brawl+ exclusive tourneys like Hackfest and Beyond the Limit (a bit more liberal), and one for Brawl+ side tourneys like at Pound and Apex (a bit more conservative).

vBrawl .pac is above. Official DL Rob .pac is gold so you can get it from B+.net.

ROB: [ROB]

* Up-Tilt: Improved combo potential, removed "trap" problems
– Hit 1:
o (Hitbox 1) BKB 0 -> 55, KBG 100 -> 120
o (Hitbox 2 & 3) BKB 0 -> 55, KBG 100 -> 120, Angle 105* -> 95*
– (Hit 2, All Hitboxes) KBG 80 -> 120

* D-Smash: Turned into a reset/GTFO rather than combo starter
– BKB 90 -> 120, KBG 105 -> 80, Angle 70* -> 60*
– (Linking Hits) SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x -> 0.90x

* N-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* F-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* B-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* U-Air
– Landing lag 22 -> 12 frames

* D-Air
– Landing lag 21 -> 12 frames

* U-Throw
– KBG 72 -> 82

First off, its 6.0, not 7.0. Blind did make it and it has been available for a while on the brawl+.net forum "temp wbr", which I KNOW that YOU KNOW exists because PM s*** is posted in the same area and I can see you've posted in many of the threads. You couldn't find this because you were unable to click on temp wbr (made during the age of bad gateway) where the changelists have been? Never thought of checking that out?

Right...

Anyway, the gold Rob .pac still needs a changelist! Part of the reason new changelists are needed is so I'm certain no mistakes were made with any of them. Also there are a small number of sakurai angle adjustments.

Well, now that your reasons for not updating the Rob guide are gone...


On the stagelist: waiting for release for... one stage and some boundary adjustments that are already in place on most of the legal stages that weren't already small (like Brinstar or the sides on Warioware)? Is there actually anything you would change about my list at this point? What are you actually gonna contribute with these lists that isn't already in the one I've posted? My guess is nothing, but I'd love to be proved wrong.

 

[GHNeko]

*works on changelists*

I got this **** ******.

</black>

 

[GuruKid]

Further testing can prove some of these stages to be bullcrap neutrals/cps and others to be legit stages.

Lylat was initally a common neutral in Brawl's early days before its tilt-n-gimp bs was discovered and peeps pushed it to cp.

Norfair was a widely-used cp before its meta-camp attributes were noticed, thus giving it the banhammer.

B+ example: when WWR was introduced, many claimed it as a fair cp even with an unusual sandbag thrown in the mix, now no one will have it legalized at their tournaments.


Warioware may turn out to be a god-awful neutral, while Skyworld may in fact prove to be a decent cp.


Point is, we have little clue how these recent stage changes actually affect the metagame, and the new metagame affects the viability of these stages. We need time to figure that out. So... we can release a hasty "oh this stage looks okay now, so let's throw that in" stagelist or wait and experiment with these new stage changes a bit before the WBR (an apparently respected group) officially releases a stagelist that some people will assume the BR put great thought into forming. I prefer the latter, but tbh the communities will do their own research into each stage either way and eventually form ideas of a proper stagelist on their own, so it actually doesn't matter.

• GuruKid
Homework: Update the PT thread. Squirtle changelist.

But I don't wanna give away my pogeyman secrets!

 

[GHNeko]

Yo Guru. Don't worry about Squirtle changelist.

I got this. I'll be working on the whole roster tonight and tomorrow.

 

[Veril]

Check the OP Neko.

I don't want any one person doing all the changelists.

That said... <3

So... we can release a hasty "oh this stage looks okay now, so let's throw that in" stagelist or wait and experiment with these new stage changes a bit before the WBR (an apparently respected group) officially releases a stagelist that some people will assume the BR put great thought into forming.

The starters are set. Unless something hugely drastic comes up they are fine. The boundaries on those stages were designed specifically with that in mind.

The logic used is a whole lot better that what you make it out to be. See frozen's post on Summit+ sans ice for a good example.

As to the new and questionable stages: that's why there is a CP/ban catagory.

 

[JCaesar]

I'm helping Chibo out with his B+ tourney on May 8th, so I have a few questions about the final stages that I'm not sure of:

Will Castle Siege be 1st transformation only or back to normal?

Will Summit+ have ice or not?

Will Wifi Waiting Room be in?

Will Temple+ be in?

Oh and, will 7.0.3 likely be out by May 8th? That's almost 3 weeks from now.

 

[FrozenHobo]

Will Castle Siege be 1st transformation only or back to normal?

i kind of feel that it should be unfrozen, as the stage really isn't terrible in its original form (and i'd like to leave stages that aren't completely unplayable as they are). however, leaving it frozen can make it a pretty legit CP due to size and stage layout.

Will Summit+ have ice or not?

i wrote up my reasoning for why un-iced summit+ should be included as a CP in another topic. however, i would also like to see the inclusion of the iced summit on the second page if at all possible (its a good stage when you just want to f-around).

Will Wifi Waiting Room be in?

yes, but as i understand it now, the stage will not be endorsed by the wbr as a legal stage.

Will Temple+ be in?

per veril, yes, but as a CP/Banned for now.

Oh and, will 7.0.3 likely be out by May 8th? That's almost 3 weeks from now.

i sure hope sooner than that....

 

[Thunderhorse+]

• Thunderhorse
Homework: Falco changelist. Up-throw CG research.

I've also talked to Orca, and he gave me the ok to take over the Falco+ character thread. I've been working on that recently, but I wanted to get the proper changelist for little things such as autocancel and IASA altercations. I have the raw data for the Falco changelist, now putting it into layman's terms and will PM you as soon as I'm done with it.

As far as Falco's uthrow CG, that will have to wait until Saturday. One easy way to get around the CG issue is to give Falco's lasers stun again. Hell we could just ask Shanus if we could implement his P:M Falco u/bthrows for Brawl+ Falco.

Granted we could probably make the non-stun lasers work, but this is by far the easiest and quickest way to guarantee eliminating the CG.

 

[Plum]

Well I don't know where you want this posted but I have DDD's Utilt percents. All done in 7.0.2 because I didn't know where to get 7.0.3 with the boundary fixes... If for some reason the percents would be different from each version let me know and I'll do them again. From the center of each stage, no DI, yatta yatta...

Final Destination
DK: 109%
Lucario: 101%
Jiggs: 77%

Battlefield
DK: 110%
Lucario: 102%
Jiggs: 78%

Wario Ware
DK: 108%
Lucario: 100%
Jiggs: 76%

Smashville
DK: 109%
Lucario: 101%
Jiggs: 78%

Pokemon Stadium II
DK: 118%
Lucario: 109%
Jiggs: 84%

I'll get platform percents if you want me to, I just figured that people only care about the percents from the bottom usually.

I'll get working on the changelist for DDD when I have a computer with Windows :3
Once that's done I'll basically have my DDD guide done; it's pretty much only missing the changelist.

 

[GHNeko]

These change lists are more tedious than I thought. lmao.

 

[Veril]

Will Castle Siege be 1st transformation only or back to normal?

Will Summit+ have ice or not?

Will Wifi Waiting Room be in?

Will Temple+ be in?

Oh and, will 7.0.3 likely be out by May 8th? That's almost 3 weeks from now.

1. 1st only.

2. The ideal would be to have both versions of Summit+ playable.

3. Yes, but that stage is crap. It has no boundary adjustments either and I strongly insist it remain banned.

4. Yes. Its CP/Banned. TOs call on that one.

7.03 is waiting on: Changelists, some final boundary tweaks (RF+, PSI+, etc) which I'm doing, and one major code related issue that has been around since 6.0 (grab-jump return code simply does not work >.<)

The last part is tricky. Other than that we're ready.

I've also talked to Orca, and he gave me the ok to take over the Falco+ character thread. I've been working on that recently, but I wanted to get the proper changelist for little things such as autocancel and IASA altercations. I have the raw data for the Falco changelist, now putting it into layman's terms and will PM you as soon as I'm done with it.

As far as Falco's uthrow CG, that will have to wait until Saturday. One easy way to get around the CG issue is to give Falco's lasers stun again. Hell we could just ask Shanus if we could implement his P:M Falco u/bthrows for Brawl+ Falco.

Granted we could probably make the non-stun lasers work, but this is by far the easiest and quickest way to guarantee eliminating the CG.

Glad to hear about the changelist. I never said the CG needed to be eliminated (at least not in this set), but it is important to know about the truly legit remaining CGs.

 

[shanus]

i told yeroc how to code it yesterday, im sure with a little probing it would only take a few iterations to get working

I realized though not to use an increment function as LA-Basic[1] keeps track of what jump your on, so Yeroc, you want to DECREMENT it (12040100) on it.

Simple fix

Action: Grabbed
If LA-Basic[1]>0, 12040100 LA-Basic[1], End if

Bam

 

[Isatis]

I've also talked to Orca, and he gave me the ok to take over the Falco+ character thread.

k, transferred ownership of the thread to you

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

Lol what happened? Is there something I need to do, I've been watching. D:

I've mostly been coordinating stuff with shanus and the rest of the PM team, which is WBR but not B+ BR (if that still EXISTS), but I've asked if you needed my help and volunteered it multiple times, and to Blind too, only to get a no or whatever else you or he might say. I'm still here if you need me. @_@ [I guess you could say it's similar to the Brawl- branch (if that EXISTS TOO).]

and Lolwtf, 5ive getting back into wuhbur? **** YEAH PARTIES.

 

[shanus]

i told yeroc how to code it yesterday, im sure with a little probing it would only take a few iterations to get working

I realized though not to use an increment function as LA-Basic[1] keeps track of what jump your on, so Yeroc, you want to DECREMENT it (12040100) on it.

Simple fix

Action: Grabbed
If LA-Basic[1]>0, 12040100 LA-Basic[1], End if

Bam

P.S. Give me credit on mah codes (cough dead frame fix)


yeroc, here is some syntax, i'm lazy to make the rest of code:


00000006 00000007
00000005 10000001
00000000 00000005
00000000 00000000

00000002 XXXXXXXX

000A0400 XXXXXXXX If la-basic 1 >0
12040100 XXXXXXXX Decrement (target second line of if statement data)
000F0000 00000000 End if
00080000 00000000 Return
06YYYYYY 00000008 (define target)
00070100 ZZZZZZZZ (point to data start

 

[Yeroc]

It doesn't seem to work. Epic sadface.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ganon KO %s you wanted

http://yfrog.com/3wkopercentsj

 

[MK26]

1. 1st only.

I 'd

 

[goodoldganon]

I was looking over the ROB changelist you posted back there Veril and had a simple question about him. I swear Cape said one goal with this set was to make every aerial have at least 12 (or maybe 13) frames of landing lag, hence why Wolf has 1 extra frame of landing lag on his back air then he did in vBrawl. Why are ROBs neutral air and back air at 7 frames then?

I could just be crazy, but it seemed like a simple question

 

[lord karn]

So I don't really know how to do the changelist and I've also got finals coming up next week and won't have much time. . .

Does anyone want to do the ganon changelist for me?

 

[Thunderhorse+]

I was looking over the ROB changelist you posted back there Veril and had a simple question about him. I swear Cape said one goal with this set was to make every aerial have at least 12 (or maybe 13) frames of landing lag, hence why Wolf has 1 extra frame of landing lag on his back air then he did in vBrawl. Why are ROBs neutral air and back air at 7 frames then?

I could just be crazy, but it seemed like a simple question

Cape said 7 frames was the minimum, not 12. Wolf's is one frame more than vBrawl's endlag because even at vBrawl endlag, it was still too good. ROB's nair and bair are at 7 because they were lower than that before, and had to be pulled up to the minimum. Afterwards, he deemed the endlag non-broken for those moves and kept them at 7 frames endlag.

 

[goodoldganon]

Thanks for the answer TH

 

[Thunderhorse+]

ROB: [ROB]

* Up-Tilt: Improved combo potential, removed "trap" problems
– Hit 1:
o (Hitbox 1) BKB 0 -> 55, KBG 100 -> 120
o (Hitbox 2 & 3) BKB 0 -> 55, KBG 100 -> 120, Angle 105* -> 95*
– (Hit 2, All Hitboxes) KBG 80 -> 120

* D-Smash: Turned into a reset/GTFO rather than combo starter
– BKB 90 -> 120, KBG 105 -> 80, Angle 70* -> 60*
– (Linking Hits) SDI Capacity Multiplier: 1.00x -> 0.90x

* N-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* F-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* B-Air
– Landing lag 12 -> 7 frames

* U-Air
– Landing lag 22 -> 12 frames

* D-Air
– Landing lag 21 -> 12 frames

* U-Throw
– KBG 72 -> 82

Completely slipped my mind until now, but Cape wants to let you know not to forget to note autocancel changes, because he did screw around with ROB's and a few other characters' and noticed you lacked those changes.

I guess this is sort of a reminder to everyone making changelists to not forget to check your autocancels .

 

[Plum]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10143881#post10143881

I figure we should be discussing the stagelist that Bionic is using for Apex.
Apex is huuuuuge. A lot of people are going to be playing B+... stage list should have a lot of input, right?

Stage List:
[1 stage ban]

Singles Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2
WarioWare

Doubles Starters:
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Pokemon Stadium 2
SSE Jungle

Singles CPs:
Brinstar
Halberd
Castle Siege+
Yoshi's Island: Brawl
Rumble Falls+

Teams CPs:
Delfino Plaza
Pictochat+
Rainbow Cruise
Luigi's Mansion+
Rumble Falls+

I'll compare this to the Apex vBrawl stagelist which I'll reference.

Neutral Stages: Each player can alternately strike a stage until one stage is left. That stage is then played.

Neutral:

* Final Destination
* Battlefield
* Yoshi's Story
* Smashville
* Lylat

Stages for Counterpick:

* Delfino Plaza
* Frigate Orpheon
* Battleship Halberd
* Castle Siege
* Rainbow Cruise
* Brinstar
* Pokemon Stadium 1

Banned Stages:

*Everything Else

I'm in school right now, so this has to be quick but some questions I have for Bionic, or anyone really in regards to the choices.

Why the split between Delphino and Halberd? I honestly don't see the issue with having both available as CP's for singles/doubles. The stages are sort of similar, but the gameplay is very different when you actually get into the finer points of the stage. Floaties can shark under the stage while it moves from place to place, but that's about it. The transformations are very different, Delphino goes through several different transformations where as Halberd flies between two different ones. Also looking at the stagelist for vBrawl at Apex they will be running both Halberd and Delphino. Players at the event are going to be playing on each when they play vBrawl, and if anything they would expect to be doing the same here.

What about LM+ as a singles CP? At first I was hesitant, but I had B+ at a little side event and got overwhelming support of LM+. The ceilings are the biggest reason why it would be banned and they are gone, and how quickly the mansion gets destroyed allows it to be destroyed without interrupting the flow of the match. The pillars break in two, three at the most, hits which really solves a lot of the campy feeling you have in the stage without the changes.

Also, what about PSI+? I could again bring up how Apex is using the stage, as well as the fact that we have an improved version of the stage available to us.

Frigate Orpheon seems like a standard CP, and I would also use the stage.

Pictoplus seems fine as a CP in singles, though I would suggest to the stage creators to get rid of the windy part. This is another stage that I had vBrawl players playing on, and aside from the windy part people really liked the stage as a unique CP. The windy part is the only section that has a very big effect on the flow of the match, though the rest is easy to play around naturally.

No Rainbow Cruise in singles? That's been a standard CP for basically all of vBrawl and most of Melee. It's strange to see it as a doubles CP but not a singles CP.

I also don't see any problem with Lylat as a CP. Obviously not neutral like the vBrawl stagelist has it, but as a CP I don't see why it wouldn't be used.

Now obviously B+ has much better starters available to them and doesn't have to use jank like Yoshi's Island or Lylat to have a good odd number for stage striking, but as far as CP's go, I do think that the vBrawl list has some good things about it that B+ should be taking considering.

Maybe that wasn't as quick as I thought because it took up most of class... but oh well. Discuss?

 

[MK26]

What about LM+ as a singles CP? At first I was hesitant, but I had B+ at a little side event and got overwhelming support of LM+. The ceilings are the biggest reason why it would be banned and they are gone, and how quickly the mansion gets destroyed allows it to be destroyed without interrupting the flow of the match. The pillars break in two, three at the most, hits which really solves a lot of the campy feeling you have in the stage without the changes.

+1 pride

i agree with the rest, excepot the part about dropping yi brawl and lylat from neutrals...but i guess i understand why you'd want that

and about Picto+, i suupose we could fix it, but we (and by we I mean FroHo ) have already done a lot for that stage

 

[FrozenHobo]

aside from annoying people, how does the wind make the stage unplayable?

 

[Veril]

Just an FYI. That stagelist was made by Cape, Bio and myself. It wasn't made to be inclusive obviously, and the logic of "this stage has no obviously bannable traits by the standard of A DIFFERENT GAME" has no place here. Simplicity, reliability, effective use of the one stage ban, and actually recognizing that singles and doubles are different games guided the creation of this. This is an EC tournament, so a conservative ruleset shouldn't surprise any of you either.

Just to reiterate for the umpteenth time: Don't care about the vBrawl stage-list. Using that as an argument is pretty lame and I'm tired of seeing it. This is a more conservative stagelist than I would recommend for anything but a very large tournament. With really large tourney's it is really good to have an easily memorized stagelist and rules.

@Picto-wind: It might not make the stage unplayable, but so what?! This isn't a character. Things that disrupt the flow of a match like that are undesirable. I still think Pictochat is a legit CP, but since it is a hacked stage, it shouldn't have the wind. It doesn't need it at all either. The many unusual, strategic and generally very interesting permutations with the platforms more than suffices without gimmicky crap like the wind.


@Everyone: if you have not responded to the idea about the stage expansion pack, do so. Otherwise don't be surprised when it appears. If you haven't done anything in regards to the changelists I asked you to work on; do that.

 

[MK26]

w/e, the stage list at Apex (or any other tourney, for that matter) doesnt affect me in any way, so i guess it doesnt matter to me what you guys do with my ****

of course, i'd like to see it used...but if you want an EC stage list for am EC tourney, i dont blame you

 

[Isatis]

Why the split between Delphino and Halberd? I honestly don't see the issue with having both available as CP's for singles/doubles. The stages are sort of similar, but the gameplay is very different when you actually get into the finer points of the stage. Floaties can shark under the stage while it moves from place to place, but that's about it. The transformations are very different, Delphino goes through several different transformations where as Halberd flies between two different ones. Also looking at the stagelist for vBrawl at Apex they will be running both Halberd and Delphino. Players at the event are going to be playing on each when they play vBrawl, and if anything they would expect to be doing the same here.

Delfino is large and more passive, which is best meant for teams. Halberd is smaller and more aggressive, which is best meant for singles.

Also, what about PSI+? I could again bring up how Apex is using the stage, as well as the fact that we have an improved version of the stage available to us.

Except we're not vBrawl nor using its stage list. We're not Melee, nor are we Brawl. (Nor are we MLG >_<) PSI+ is not in because I still think it's campy, and could live without the fire or rock stage... if we were able to remove that, I'd definitely put it in Cape said it best: PSI was bad in Melee, PSI was worse in Brawl. Even with the improvements to the stage, I still think it promotes camping and thus that's both of our reasoning for not putting it in.

Frigate Orpheon seems like a standard CP, and I would also use the stage.

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Did we fix this?

Pictoplus seems fine as a CP in singles, though I would suggest to the stage creators to get rid of the windy part. This is another stage that I had vBrawl players playing on, and aside from the windy part people really liked the stage as a unique CP. The windy part is the only section that has a very big effect on the flow of the match, though the rest is easy to play around naturally.

What's wrong w/ the windy part? I've never noticed a problem w/ it and I've used it strategically...

Now obviously B+ has much better starters available to them and doesn't have to use jank like Yoshi's Island or Lylat to have a good odd number for stage striking, but as far as CP's go, I do think that the vBrawl list has some good things about it that B+ should be taking considering.

Here's my reasoning for the stage list. I used a conservative stage list because of all of the people I talked to, most of them favored it, others wanted a liberal stage list but the more I contemplated it, the more I had to use a conservative stage list to make the tournament end sooner and not to have the tournament drag on when mulling counterpicks. At the same time I'm trying to focus on the "passive aggressive" rule, where most large stages are doubles, and most small stages are singles.

Heck, Cape can probably go further, if you want you can AIM him and talk to him about it... I'm not changing the stage list (if I do change it, the final say on the stage list will be May 15th when I finalize it) unless I find a long explanation into why which stage should/shouldn't be in the singles and teams CP's. Most of what I've seen is "Oh well I favor a liberal stage list because of stage diversity," or "Well I think this should be on because it's in vBrawl", when the fact is it's not vBrawl! I hate the Overswarm mentality to stages and will never use liberal lists like Overswarm's or MLG's. >_<

 

[MK26]

She just so happened to be in the one spot on the stage that'll kill her at the exact time that it happened to be able to kill her, ignoring the 10-second warning that the stage gave her, both video and audio feedback telling her that whatever she did, she should have stayed away from there at that time.

Frankly, she deserved to get killed by that. It's like getting hit by a hazard at Halberd - that never should happen, and it's only your fault when it does.

 

[Isatis]

Regardless of timing and location, no stage should OHKO you.